Recommend speakers for a large living room

The OP really has yet todescribe what he is trying to achieve.  You'll have two seating areas, but is the goal to have equal quality sound in each sitting area simultaneously?  Are you trying to achieve high volume levels or do you want to be able to have a conversation with someone while the music plays?  Are soundstage and image important?   Most importantly, is your intention to have a "normal" person's apartment, or will this basically be a large dedicated audiophile listening room?  I ask because some of the loudspeakers recommended by others are quite large (refrigerator size) and require placement away from walls.  Add to that cables and powerful amps and your living room won't look like a living room.

IMO: The space needs to solve two things, and must be designed together.

First, Home Theater, Surround Sound, Light Control. It's solution, viewing location and furniture layout will effect:

Second, 2 Channel Stereo Music System. Sometimes the home theater run in stereo mode will be the music system, you have room for both.

You have a huge wall with no windows, that will help with light control for viewing. I would go to a Home Theater Designer with both plans and photos with ceiling and lighting information. My opinion is a 5.1 surround system is enough, anything further ought to be considered only when designing and building a specific theater rather than this which will be in a multi-functional space.

A proper center channel is very important, and full range front with perhaps a pair of subs, depends as it develops.

My setup, in a smaller space, 13 x 24, is a music system from the far end, and my small home theater is across the width of the room at the opposite end. My primary listening chairs (2) simply spin around 180 degrees, so they are side chairs in the home theater, and primary chairs for music. All my chairs are somewhat acoustically transparent, wicker backed rocking chair, wood frame slat backs, open arms, so sound from either active system is not blocked/absorbed.

Do yourself a favor, get very efficient speakers, that will keep the needed size of amplification down, reducing cost, size, heat.

Once you have the layout(s) solved, the furniture placement/movement solved, then the types of speakers, width of dispersion, can be resolved.  

You have the room and the space how about the Magnepan 30.7 it should fill that room nicely and probably eliminate the need for subs., plus you'll have $$ left over.
If you haven't heard them they are definitely worth a listen.

I have 25' x 25 'x 16' high open ended room. Found a pair of Dunlavy SC-V speakers. VERY large speakers, sealed back, no ports. Sound fantastic in my room. They are hard to find but worth the effort. They fill the room. I can generate 125 db with no sweat. Krell 400 cx amp. Whole system was less than $30k. Never heard anything like it. Dunlavy was a genius. 

Most of the money in multi-driver large speakers goes into cabinetry.
HUGE savings are had when it is eliminated, like Magnepan, Sound Lab, etc


I too have a large room 38 x 19 x 11 with open stairwells. In decades past I had Accoustat 2 + 2s, and Magnepan 3.5Rs (both open baffle). Due to them needing to be well away from the front wall, their physical size intrudes into the room, both really cut up the physical space, which I never liked


My personal choice is for a speaker that has consistently won TAS Awards: Emerald Physics, specifically the 2.8s. Their newest version has dual 15" carbon fiber woofers and 12" carbon fiber mid range coax and DSP. Normally a bargain at $10K, but Underwood has a huge sale going on right now


Another issue is the amplifier power needed to create a proper SPL in a large room. That can be really expensive, but here again is a real bargain: Tweak Audio EVS 1200 which is 600/1200 wpc using newest class D modules with lots of Pixie Dust, $2200

hth

Tekton https://www.tektondesign.com/# has some very good speakers that can fill up your room with sweet music.

I have the Double Impact but I would love to own a pair of Encores

Audiokenesis response above is why it is worth speaking with a designer that does this for a living.  I completely missed that because of the size of your room, room modes are not much of an issue.  With the size room you have, you are really getting into commercial sound reinforcement issues where the experience of someone with that background would be very helpful.  

+1 on all those who ask for other electronics, music you typically listen to, and would add the questions:

what sonic profile do you lean towards?  Value accuracy? Or warmth? Sonic truth? Or musicality.. yeah they are all subjective terms but the folks on here are a wealth of information if given the right variables... 

what systems have you heard that truly made you excited, or at least interested in hifi? 
Sounds like you have the budget for a truly amazing system. What a great adventure you have in front you!

Best

Benj

Daedalus Audio. look into Lou’s biggest. 

Mcreyn wrote:

"If you were to use the AudioKinesis Swarm system, it uses a single amplifer for each subwoofer. My only concern with using the Audiokinesis would be if it would have enough output capability given the size of your room."

Thank you sir.

And thank you too millercarbon.

Given the size of dpal’s total space and its irregular shape, I would expect the bass to be quite good in there without needing four subs distributed asymmetrically around the room. A distributed multisub system makes a small room behave much more like a large room in the bass region, and dpal already has a large room!

So I don’t think a Swarm-like system would offer as much improvement over two bass sources as would be the case in considerably smaller rooms. When I have done custom systems for similar-sized rooms where aesthetics was a priority, I have just done two large subs.

Imo the sheer size of the dpal’s space calls for a LOT of air-moving capability in order to do low bass at high SPL, so I’d recommend two big subs over my four small ones.

(The Swarm was reviewed by Robert E. Greene of The Absolute Sound in April 2015, and the review is online, in case anyone is interested. It subsequently received several awards from the magazine over several years, most recently this summer, so apparently the concept has a good shelf life.)

* * * *

SoundLabs have been suggest a couple of times. Yes they would work very well; it MIGHT even make sense to go with two 90-degree panels per side arrayed to give coverage over 180 degrees, assuming that listening area off to one side is a high priority. But I’d have to do some math to see if that would really make sense.

Disclaimer: I’m a SoundLab dealer.

With MBLs or SoundLabs, I’d suggest diffusion of some sort on the wall behind the speakers so that the early reflections are smeared rather than being strong and distinct ("specular"). I would try to avoid using absorption there because absorption kills shorter wavelengths (high frequencies) more effectively than longer ones, and can thereby degrade the spectral balance of the reverberant field, and in such a large room the reverberant field will dominate the perceived tonal balance throughout most of the room. Both MBLs and SoundLabs do a very good job of creating a spectrally correct reverberant field.

Duke

Sound Lab Ultimate series is  what I would recommend.

I think these threads are generally filled with people suggesting obscure speakers that are 1/5 the budget you have.
Big space, big speakers. I’d recommend at least starting out with some of the larger Focals, B&W 800D3, something in the middle of the Wilson range. Really it’s impossible to say without knowing what electronics you have (or want) and what music you listen to.

Question, if I were to add 4 sub-woofers, how would that work? Is there a pre-amp that could handle 4 sub-woofers?

Well first off this is definitely the way to go. I tried a bunch of things and going to four is so much better than anything else I have to say its the only real solution. Well, unless you go more. Five now in my case.

Connecting is easy. All the bass down where subs run is mono. But even if for some reason you want to run stereo (which I do, but not for this reason, it really is all mono) that's still easy. The options are too many to list but just to give you my example, two run off one channel, two off the other, and the fifth runs off the bypass out from one of the sub amps.

Mine use the Dayton amp, same one Duke uses and recommends. This amp has plenty of flexibility with adjustable phase, crossover frequency, level, EQ, bass boost, and bass cutoff. Duke uses one amp for four subs standard, with the option to run two. There isn't much reason to run two, the advantage is not for volume but flexibility, being able to adjust two subs independently rather than all 4 together.

Mine are 10" drivers, higher quality but similar cabinets. Doing it again only thing I might do different is go even bigger. Its just really hard to appreciate until you hear it just how wonderful really good deep bass is! Because, whatever you think you heard that was, unless and until you've heard four or more sorry, you just don't know. Its that much better.

Really low bass is so much different than the way things work up higher that it almost doesn't matter how you do it. What I mean is four self-powered subs will work just as well as four passive ones, and the four don't even have to be all the same. Mine for example, two are ported, two sealed, and one is a Talon Roc actively powered. You cannot tell where any of them are, and it all blends seamlessly with the stereo image.

I would second, or third, the Ulfberht's. They would be right at home in a room your size. Together with a distributed bass array, flat-out awesome.

Skip the others. Skip the power hogs. Ulfberht and Swarm. You can thank me later.

I would put Sound lab 845's along the window wall of the sitting area. Line source dipoles will limit early reflections and Sound Labs still disperse over a wide angle. Line source speakers project power better so they will fill that rather large area better. Every where but the listening position is back ground music. The image is not as important. 

Thanks everyone for the response. Lots of great info here. I have reached out to MBL to organize a demo & am also going to check-out Ohm speakers next week. I hadn’t thought about adding sub-woofers. Question, if I were to add 4 sub-woofers, how would that work? Is there a pre-amp that could handle 4 sub-woofers?

You may want to consider speaking with Duke (Audiokenesis).  He is a well respected speaker designer and the first to offer a consumer distributed bass array.  

In regard to adding four subwoofers, you simply run each in mono.  If you were to use the Audiokenesis Swarm system, it uses a single amplifer for each subwoofer.  My only concern with using the Audiokenesis would be if it would have enough output capability given the size of your room.  Again, Duke would be able to answer that, as he also designs systems used in larger environments. 

http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html

Like the JBLs

Legacy Audio Focus.

Tekton Ulfberts.

Thanks everyone for the response. Lots of great info here. I have reached out to MBL to organize a demo & am also going to check-out Ohm speakers next week. I hadn’t thought about adding sub-woofers. Question, if I were to add 4 sub-woofers, how would that work? Is there a pre-amp that could handle 4 sub-woofers?

JBL Everest DD67000

Joseph Audio Pearl 3s with Audiokinesis Swarm.  Boom. 

Definitely check out the OHM Walsh speakers at

https://ohmspeaker.com/

These are tweaked omnis that are designed to go closer to walls than many speakers out there, especially full omnis like GP or MBL.

Also you will save a lot of money with OHM compared to either of those and they are made right here in good old Brooklyn, USA and offer top notch customer service and support to boot.

Model needed and cost is determined by room size. Couldn’t be easier to choose the right model for a specific room. Bigger models for bigger rooms cost more. The biggest model can be adjusted for room size. That’s it.

I own 2 pair:   larger 5XXX models I run in one system  with 12" driver room adjustable and smaller more basic 8" model in another.

I listened to the German Physics speakers and was unimpressed.
They were good, but not great- especially for the price.
If you can listen to MBL, I think you would be on a better track-given your budget.
Bob

Thank you for providing so much information. I agree that the red circles make sense for your speaker locations.

Apologies in advance for this: What I’m going to suggest is not something that you can buy off-the-shelf, to the best of my knowledge; however I will be speaking from experience.

Speakers with a very wide radiation pattern could provide wide enough coverage, but with an omni you’ll be getting a strong early reflection off the wall behind the speakers. Early reflections tend to degrade clarity and imaging, in particular image depth.

For that off-to-the-side sitting area, a unique problem arises: Even with wide-pattern speakers, the image will be strongly pulled to the near speaker because its output will arrive so much earlier than that of the far speaker.

Imo here is a solution: Imagine a pair of speakers with 180 degree dispersion designed to have their backs up against the wall. The INNER 90 degrees of each speaker (which would cover the living room sitting area) is of a fixed loudness, but the OUTER 90 degrees of each speaker has adjustable loudness. So each speaker would have two arrays of drivers: A fixed-SPL array for the inner 90 degrees, and a variable-SPL array for the outer 90 degrees.

What you would do is, turn down the loudness of the OUTER 90 degrees on each speaker, until you still get a decent soundstage in that off-to-the-side sitting area.

This can work because the ear localizes sound by two mechanisms: Arrival time and intensity. The near speaker will inevitably "win" arrival time, but if we reduce the SPL of the near speaker’s output by the right amount, the far speaker will "win" intensity (loudness) by a comparable margin, and the net result will be an enjoyable instrument spread from well off to the side. The effectiveness of this approach will vary throughout that area, but for everyone in that area it will be better than with conventional speakers whether omni or wide-pattern or whatever.

One beneficial side effect of getting the radiation patterns right for this approach is, we will have very little energy in the midrange and treble regions bouncing off the wall behind the speakers as undesirable early reflections.

Another benefit of the well-controlled radiation patterns is that the reverberant field would have essentially the same spectral balance as the first-arrival sound, so the tonal balance would hold up well throughout the entire space. This may not be the case with speakers whose radiation patterns change significantly, as that skews the spectral balance of the reverberant field, and the farther back you are, the more the reverberant field dominates the perceived tonal balance.

In the centered living room listening area, within the coverage pattern of each speaker’s inner-90-degrees array, each speaker’s outer arrays will just be adding a bit more spectrally-correct, late-onset reverberant energy, which is desirable. So everybody in the room benefits.

(I design speakers and spend time working with radiation patterns to help meet particular requirements, in case it wasn’t obvious.)

Duke

I am planning on moving to Montana and they have big spaces. I want to buy a vehicle and have $75,000, what should I buy?

That is about the same as your question.  What components are you using?  How loud do you listen?  What music do you listen to?  Given your statement, you are listening in multiple positions, do you intend to have a critical listening position, or are you interested in just having a balanced sound throughout the room?

If it is the latter, I would suggest you consider a set of Ohm Walsh 4000s and 4 subwoofers in a distributed array for smoothest bass throughout the room (something like Rythmik F15s, HSU ULS-15 MK2  or SVS SB 3000).  I would also invest in a few thousand dollars in room treatments.  The speaker setup will run you $10,000-12,000 depending on the subwoofers, all in maybe $15,000.  Put the rest of the money to use for something else.  

I will sell you my Revel F2062 for $40k and then you will have $10k for a big-ass rug.