Raven vs primaluna integrated amplifiers

Buy the other American made in Illinois amp Decware, not the prettiest looking amp but lifetime warranty to original owner and all hand built.

skypunk,

I have no urge to brag with my life achievements on an audio forum.

The language you use here is inappropriate. You should know it by now.

One of the things that made Primaluna attractive to me was the ability to accept a wide range of tubes. Does the Raven work well with any tubes other than the 6L6GC?

For those offering direct listening comparisons, did you make a note of what tubes were being used?

skypunk.

At some point, you may need to change the language you use on public websites.

Please start corresponding like a person of a class higher than what you present yourself as.

I have no dog in this race (i.e., PL or Raven) as I own some of Steve McCormack's separates made many moons ago. I also cannot claim to have any Chinese manufactured products in my system as my Monitor Audio Gold's are made by a company based in England but manufactured in China. However, these speakers were purchased year's ago and before I fully understood China's policies and true intentions. I sincerely believe most people in China are good. However, they have been brainwashed by the CCP much like what NAZI Germany did to the people of Germany prior to WWII. My apologies for continuing this political rant on an audio blog but I feel very strongly about what is taking place in our nation and across the globe. People need to wake up and realize that if we fail to take action our children and grandchildren may one day be forced to speak Mandarin. The action I take is to support politicians who share my views and make a conscience effort to look at every label and first, purchase products made in USA and second, those not made in Communist countries. Purchasing anything "made in China" is the equivalent of feeding the monster that is going to eat you. God Bless America!

You know a PL vs anything will derail sooner or later.

All because I wasn't in  complete filter mode? Silly me. Only if I wrote something like-gee, not considering a product just because it's made in China might cause you to miss a great value product. 

Dumb meaning it's naïve to think his speakers are British. THEY"RE MADE IN CHINA! 

All the ultra sensitive can go about their business now.

@tablejockey 
Never claimed the speakers were British...stated the company is based in England and has a manufacturing facility in China. These speakers are as Chinese as your PL equipment and that is okay...not judging anyone based on equipment owned. As noted, the speakers were purchased years ago and prior to my fully understanding China’s policies and evil ambitions. If it were today I would never purchase or recommend Monitor Audio equipment for this reason. Personally, I would forego a great value product and pay more for the same product made in the USA. However, I realize not everyone shares my views and this too is okay. This is what makes America great and I simply seek to defend the freedom we enjoy. Ultra sensitive...hardly. Ultra patriotic...emphatically!

"...years ago and prior to my fully understanding China’s policies and evil ambitions."

Anyone ever wondered how Britain got its Great?

"...not made in Communist countries."

China gets a pass. It has not been a communist country in decades.

Having said that, I like Monitor Audio speakers and would recommend them. I guess, best of both worlds.

skypunk,

Correct your language. It is not suitable for interactions with unknown people on an open Internet forum.

Both are great products supported by great people here in the US.

People make products not countries.

Where you spend your money and what politics you supports is your business.

This thread has wondered so far off into the weeds it is not funny. It has turned into the usual suspect sniping any one and character assassinations right and left ( I am not without fault here).

Stay on topic the OP did not come here for the bull!

I am done with most of you, you miserable lot!

@glupson
"China gets a pass. It has not been a communist country in decades. "
Really? Please educate me!


 

@yogiboy linky no worky....,.,,

 Here ya go!
https://www.worldatlas.com/which-countries-are-still-communist.html#:~:text=A%20communist%20state%20...

yogiboy,

"Really? Please educate me!"

It would be too long and this is not the venue.

As a start, check what the idea and premises of communism are and then check this one...

List of countries by number of billionaires - Wikipedia

As far as your link goes...

"They have a liberalized economy: commercially minded state enterprises function alongside private-sector corporations."

It defies the definition of communism. Three times in one sentence.

skypunk,

Tone your language down. This is not the place to vent frustrations and inadequacies out. You are corresponding with people you do not know.

It’s pretty unfortunate that Raven Audio doesn’t make their products in a black finish. Sounds incredibly stupid but I wouldn’t buy this on that that fact alone. No matter how great it sounds. Seems trivial but I don’t like silver gear. Raven, being a BLACK bird seems fitting they’d play off that and build a brand around a black aesthetic. The Raven logo it trash too. It’s not a damn motorcycle. It’s high end audio. Do better. Rant over. 

Word to the wise...

Don't start a "X" vs PL anything thread. Unless you're prepared to discuss international relations, politics and witness grown men behaving like...

@glupson We own a vacation home is St. Anne Bay Jamaica that we rent. I also own 2 homes in Florida and one in Colorado. They are all vacation rentals as we rent them out when we are not using them.

Perhaps vacation condo, since that was not "your" front yard, or "your" house, that was the dining area of a small resort complex, and the grounds of a small resort complex.  Should I be posting the real estate I own as an investment but don't live in?  Would that make my ears magically better?  Putting somewhat expensive gear in front of a windows, with the speakers closish to the front wall, a door on one side, no acoustic treatments, and a hard floor is not going to garner you any audio cred with people who truly value good audio.  Owning property in corrupt Jamaica, whether claims of a democracy or not, really does not make your case too well. People send to be pretty selective about their outrage.


Now w.r.t. to that Raven video of build quality, did you mean this one:  https://youtu.be/6vv_3TmfZrE?t=126 ... you know the one with the okay solder fillets where the guy tries to claim equivalence in their products to Nasa products (which don't use lead-free solder, and those audio boards appear to).  You mean the video where he says laser soldering (not used on their boards), and then shows SMT machines, though his board is through-hole? That video?  The one where given the solder process could benefit from a nitrogen atmosphere but does that appear to use one? These videos are to impress people who don't know any better.

A friend has the Primaluna 200 and loves it. I do enjoy the sound when I am there, but how much that is the amp, is questionable. Tubes can be finicky, and their auto-bias is a great feature. No doubt Raven's MFG cost for the same thing is much higher, but they cut out the dealer, so it is probably a wash.  Look into their 45 day trial (and what real costs may be) for Raven, and see if you can get a Primaluna demo.  Tube amps can have quite different sound, and only you will know what is best for you. All this talk on here is just meaningless distraction. Your speakers, your room, your ears ... literally nothing written here is going to matter much w.r.t. sound.

skypunk,

I may be a poser, albeit the one who does not post photographs of local parks and call them "front yard".

It would be wise to watch your language when interacting with strangers.

I am just trying to help you. Your employer might be unhappy about the way you present yourself while linking yourself to it. I cannot care less what you call me, but some people may go that extra step. Be more careful. Tourism is not doing that well these days, you may need to keep on working your regular job for a little more.

I get a kick out of all you so called patriots thumping your chest and only buying American products. I do not believe any of you for even one minute that you care about the Chinese workers and that is why you buy American. You all are singing American praise because it is now the politically correct thing to do.


I am very heavily invested in USA manufactured McIntosh but I do not diss something made in China either. My GE speakers are an American company that has its products built in China. I am ok with that and I care less if anyone else takes offense by it. After all, it’s my money I am spending, not yours.


Honestly, the “poor Chinese worker” does not come to my mind when I look at equipment. I am also positive the American worker is not on any of the Chinese minds. It’s now a global economy so get over your prejudices.

@audio2design -- the Raven Audio guy you’re referring to is a brilliant engineer. He designs speakers, amps, works with the Dallas Symphony Orchestra and other similar organizations, and is extremely knowledgeable about his craft. He lets his craft speak for itself and doesn’t need to throw his credentials around like confetti. In short, he’s neither an armchair general nor an internet warrior.

Can you please point us to (actual links please) the world class products that you built, or publications, or details of the world class company that you supposedly ran for many years? How about showing us the pics of your system? Anything, anything, beyond words, please!

arafiq530 posts02-28-2021 12:21pm@audio2design -- the Raven Audio guy you’re referring to is a brilliant engineer. He designs speakers, amps, works with the Dallas Symphony Orchestra and other similar organizations, and is extremely knowledgeable about his craft. He lets his craft speak for itself and doesn’t need to throw his credentials around like confetti. In short, he’s neither an armchair general nor an internet warrior.

And yet, he shows SMT machines, while holding a through-hole wave solder board, talks about laser soldering, not a process used on the boards they are showing, talks about NASA, like there is any correlation to their board builds, and as noted, their soldering quality looks just okay (surface quality) and could benefit from a nitrogen environment during wave/selective soldering.  I didn't force him to put up that fluff piece, he did.  How brilliant is that?    However, you totally proved my point. This was a fluff piece, meant to impress someone like you who does not know any better, and as opposed to addressing what I wrote, you reply with an ad-hom which means you actually have no rebuttal.  Nothing in that video ensures great sound.  The soldering procedures, the inspection, the testing, etc. that is used on the "NASA" products will have little relation to their products, but it sure does sound impressive.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-raven-audio-blackhawk-integrated-soniquil-cables
Apparently, long live the used market?!?

Can we pause and calculate what percentage of MC's system (inc. tweaks) was made in China?

@charles1dad

Luxman SQ-N 150, a push-pull el 84 integrated amplifier

Thanks Charles, for bringing the Luxman to my attention. Luxman’s are known to buck the trend of not having treble and bass control - to having treble and bass control and sure enough to my surprise those same two features are included in their tube integrated line up. Very interesting, with a nice price point and a remote too.

@twoleftears yep and I scooped it up the day it was listed. 
When was the last time you had seen one listed?

Snooze you lose and 4 people sat there watching the one I bought.

The meek and timid inherit nothing!

Dig ... dig ... dig. The person was taking pictures of people, not the house. 

Look again fool!
Such a petty child.

I'm confused.  Is skypunk endorsing the product but not the company?

@audio2design -- you still didn’t give me a reason to pay any attention to your credibility. I might be a simpleton, but I know enough that people who actually build a product and put it out there for the world to see and critique are always going to be champions in my book. Arm chair generals and monday morning quarterbacks are dime a dozen. So let’s see some concrete proof of your accomplishments that go beyond delusions of grandeur. Right now, you’re one rung below kenjit in my book. Come on, you can do better!