I just hooked up the final parts of my system this weekend and am getting this pretty awful noise that I can't figure out the source of. I would be GREATLY appreciative if someone were able to help me out. I'm very new to the hifi world so needless to say, it's pretty frustrating to finally have everything hooked up and get an awful noise when I was expecting smooth sailing (silly me?).
I have a cambridge cxa81 integrated amp and kef ls50 meta speakers that I've had for a few weeks now listening to digital music through Tidal until my turntable/preamp arrived and it's been a great experience. I finally picked up my turntable/cartridge/preamp on Tuesday - rega p6 turntable, hana ml cartridge and sutherland kc vibe phono at stereo exchange in nyc. the sales rep was very nice and put everything together for me in the store to make sure things worked properly before I left. When he hooked up my turntable/preamp to a receiver/speakers in store, it sounded great but it was picking up some radio frequency which we found very strange. We thought maybe it was an issue with where we were and that the issue would go away when I hooked it up at home.
https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0sPNXSiNWROvNUUnRmh1YSglg here is a video of the issue i'm experiencing. I've been searching online since this afternoon and can't really find an answer. Everyone I hear talking about the kc vibe raves about how quiet it is which is obviously the opposite of what I'm experiencing. As soon as I turn up the volume to around 10-11 o'clock, you start to hear it at a decent level, then it gets louder as I turn the volume up. It's subdued when I actually play music, but you can still kind of hear it in the background if you try, or put your ear closer to the speaker.
What I've tried from the time I've spent online looking for an answer: turned phone on airplane mode and turned off router (not sure how much that'll since I live in Brooklyn where RF/EMF is flying around everywhere), plugged the preamp into a different power source then everything else is plugged into, moved the preamp further away from the system setup, unplugged my tv...I think that's it so far.
I also plugged my previous turntable, audio-technica lp120 to the kc vibe and still hear that sound. When I plug the lp120 straight to the receiver and use the onboard preamp, I don't hear anything.
There's absolutely no noise when I switch the input to listen to music digitally, just when i turn the preamp on.
OP how’s that cable routing? Did you just plug drop and listen?
Can you move cables with the volume up and hear a yo yo effect?
It’s routing.. Do a little cable art and don’t let anything touch, cross at 90s and still keep space between cables.. BE very mindfull of PC and Speaker ICs, that can get real noisy..
Routers or computers, unplug them.. Turn them off and unplug the PS to them...Noisy...
MATCH volumes between sources correctly... All I got for no cost..
Sorry, but what does OP mean? I have the integrated interconnects from the turntable to the IN connection on the preamp and interconnects going out to the receiver.
Messing around with the cables doesn't seem to affect the problem. I did the cable art and it didn't help.
Is there noise when you plug the Rega TT directly into your (Cambridge CX81?) receiver?
I’m guessing the Sutherland preamp is picking up some kind of digital interference.
Tried calling Sutherland for tech support?
If the store is not too far, consider taking your receiver, turntable and the phono-preamp back to the store. See if there’s noise there. If yes, try another Sutherland pre-amp in the store. Maybe your phono pre is defective?
Sorry, couldn't resist. Besides, you know the answer. You heard it in the store: RFI. The phono stage is picking up radio frequency noise. It was different in the store because different RFI environment, also different cable routing. Play with the phono lead and RCA connectors, and if you hear the noise change this is confirmation.
Your choices are fuss around until you track down the solution, or take the rig back and say what it did here in the store it is doing at home, let's try something else.
If you want to try and track it down, first clean all contacts with alcohol and a clean cloth. Then try moving the phono lead. Every wire is an antenna, they are all chock full of radio frequency noise, it is just random chance that some of it gets "tuned" out to what you are hearing. All the rest of the time that same noise is there, just not in a form or at a frequency you hear well enough to recognize as noise. But it is there. Trust me. One of the many reasons some interconnects and speaker cables and power cords sound better than others is their ability to reject RFI.
Wait I just noticed you are in Brooklyn. I would remove the cover and check. Just in case there is someone living in there.
@ghosthouse thanks for the OP clarification, lol. When I plug the TT directly into the receiver, no noise at all but the sounds isn't amplified at all (obviously) so maybe it's there and I just can't hear it, but nothing audible. Stereo Exchange talked to Ron Sutherland directly this morning. He's a small company and said he's all about customer satisfaction so he's going to take the preamp back if we're unable to come up with a solution. He did tell them that the preamp "has a wide band design and sensitive to RFI," which should definitely be a huge disclaimer to customers prior to purchasing. Living in NYC, there's no way to avoid RFI and I don't ever want to have to turn off my phone, wifi, lights, wear a tin foil hat to have to listen to records lol. We heard the noise when we plugged my preamp and TT up at the store before I left and the noise was worse, it was actually picking up radio signals. I'm most likely going to take it back but now I have to figure out which preamp to get that isn't going to give me the same problems :/
Hey @wally828 - I did read your mention of picking up radio in the store but that is not unheard of with vinyl rigs so I I thought your Morse code interference back at home might have been due to something else. Glad Sutherland and your store are on it for you.
Not sure you want to invest the time and effort but if you aren't certain what to replace the Sutherland with and if they let you keep it a while longer, there is shielding material...fabric type stuff you can find on Amazon. Some of it is military spec. Maybe buying a yard or two and "wrapping" your phono pre with it would help??? Just a thought.
I was actually thinking about this, but was wondering if wrapping the preamp will cause any overheating issues at all since it won’t be able to breath as well.
I tried running the preamp out to my recover without the turntable plugged into the preamp and still heard the noise. That eliminates the possibility of it being the TT, right?
"When he hooked up my turntable/preamp to a receiver/speakers in store, it sounded great but it was picking up some radio frequency which we found very strange."
Return it to Stereo Exchange and let them figure out what the problem is!
I tried running the preamp out to my recover without the turntable plugged into the preamp and still heard the noise. That eliminates the possibility of it being the TT, right?
Right. In this case then it is a problem with shielding or grounding in the unit itself. The wide bandwidth story is something clueless people hope the one they tell it to is gullible or clueless enough to believe. Susceptibility to RFI has nothing to do with wide bandwidth.
Again remember, RFI is radio waves, they are everywhere. You could go out in the middle of Montana, you could shut down all the electricity on the planet. Radio waves come from stars too. What do you think radio telescopes are used for?
So the noise is everywhere but like I said not usually loud enough or at a frequency we can hear. Phono stages and other high gain stages are particularly susceptible. Sometimes with a phono stage you can hear a radio station as clean and clear as if it were a tuner.
That's because in this case it IS a tuner! All a tuner does is take the faint radio frequency noise from a wire we call an antenna, run it through some circuits that select (we say "tune") for a particular frequency, and then modulate and amplify it. A tuner lets us tune from one to another. What is going on here is the amp itself happens to randomly tune some frequency. Just like if you had an old timey tuner or watch one of those old movies where the guy is fiddling with the short wave, it is static, noise, whistles, all kinds of weird sounds, until he gets it tuned to the right frequency. What you have is tuned but not to any frequency in particular it is just stuck between stations so to speak.
This in layman's terms is what's going on. In even simpler layman's terms you got a lemon, take it back, get one that doesn't do that.
OP is there a switch for the ground? I've seen some phono stages have a switch or jumper to change the way the ground works. Float the ground, equipment ground, and tonearm grounding with cart to tonearm.
I would think the wrong way would leave the shielding out of the loop so to speak. Depends on the tonearm cables with the phono stage. I'm just thinkin' out loud. The shielding isn't working? Right? Wrong?
Sorry, Wally. Don't know whether wrapping with RFI shielding will affect temp. Wrap loosely if you do experiment (and be careful around the input output jacks. These fabrics are fairly thin (conductive too, metal imprgnated,I believe) so if the Sutherland is solid state, maybe not that much of an effect. But that is, admittedly, JUST O-pinion.
In a rich RF environment you might consider really quiet cabling as an important part of your system. I suggest using the very best for this purpose, Canare Starquad L-4E6S microphone cable. It may or may not solve your immediate problem, but it should pay dividends in a blacker background. IMO
RCA connectors. Considering the rest of your system, Switchcraft RCA connectors would be a good choice, inexpensive and very good (from Digikey). Starquad isn’t that easy to DIY, but any tech could help you - but make sure that he solders the shield on ONE end only, and MARKS that end. That’s industry standard for microphone cable and RCA connectors.
When you connect the cables, put the marked ends on the same component. Then try it the other way. One way may be quieter. I use this cabling in a higher end system and have no desire to change.
Hi, I've had a similar issue, In my case it was an AC issue where other devices where sending hight frequency. to solve it got one of does iFI AC Purifier. Hope this helps Fil
I just had a very similar issue and it had to do with the step up transformer in my phono stage picking up noise generated by my Google home wifi router. A good way to check if it's that kind of interference is to literally pick up the unit while it's on and see if the sound changes. If it does, it's something fairly nearby. If you're wifi router is close I'd move that and see if it helps.
I recently had an experience where I had a wifi router too close to my system. Everything was okay (CD and streamer) but when I turned on my phono pre-preamp, Conrad-Johnson Premier 6, it would pick up RFI from the router that sounded like the alien transmissions in the movie Independence Day. Turning the router on and off confirmed the problem. I wound up buying a long Cat8 cable and moving the router to the other side of the living room.
In your case however it sounds like you’ve turned off all close sources of RFI that you can with little to no effect. To key clue to me was that you heard the same sound at the store... IMHO I would return the Sutherland and try another/different step up device. It sounds like it’s simply too sensitive to RFI in your environment. (Frankly I’m surprised they let you walk out with it if it was acting up at the store.) Let us know how it goes. Happy listening.
Just catching up to all these messages. Much thanks for everyone's input.
@oldhvymec the preamp doesn't have a ground switch, just the nut for the ground wire. the TT itself doesn't have an external ground. Apparently the way Rega makes their turntables, they're grounded internally so I don't really have options there. That being said, this isn't really a ground "hum" as I've heard it being described.
@jdane that's what i plan on doing. Anyone have any reccos?
@terry9 I have a good set of interconnects that go from the preamp to the receiver, shielded and all. The interconnects coming from the rega are integrated so I can't really mess with those.
@filipedine that would just eliminate noise coming from the AC source but not whatever is going on inside the preamp if it's picking up RF though I'd imagine?
@rmdmoore I did that and the noise did change a bit! I actually turned off everything in my home that emits that type of frequency and still heard the noise - phones, tv, tablets, router...as mentioned previously, i live in Brooklyn and my setup is near a big window so I don't think I can hide from RF, unfortunately.
@musicfan2349 that's exactly how i'd describe the sound, lol! TBH, the store is really push about letting me return things which I find very annoying. They said they had to call ron sutherland and ask him if he could take the product back. They really don't allow returns, so I think I need to find a shop that does.
On another note, I'm new to this board and maybe making my replies more consolidated than I'm able to. When I try to @ people, only a few members show up in the drop down list? Is there a way to reply back to specific people so they know I've seen/appreciate their response and am replying back to them?
RF can appear in several ways. The most obvious is when you turn the volume all the way up with no program material, and hear "Take Five" playing in the background. Another way is just a small loss of detail in the music you are playing. Or anything in between. Even, perhaps, the problem that you are experiencing.
Note that not all cable shielding is created equal. Indeed, I have used cabling with shields that are little better than nothing at all (but not for long!).
I Called,Ron and gave my input just now, that is not morse code, but The Clock frequency of an electronic device, Possibly an unshielded or failing Transformer, I would suggest getting the aid of the ARRL local to you are area in tracking it down, possibly with an RTL-SDR.
I would send the problem unit back to sutherland because i took home a preamplifier one time that made noises like that and it took out the uses to the speakers because the strange noise went from 0 to 100 in about a second so be careful playing that particular unit it may take other things out with it.
You can use an RTL-SDR to find the frequency, That would give a hint as to what it is... Ron didn't see so communicative when I was trying to be helpful that it wasn't morse code but cpu noise, so I didnt get to ask if it changed in pitch or intensity.
You can use an RTL-SDR to find the frequency, That would give a hint as to what it is... Ron didn't see so communicative when I was trying to be helpful that it wasn't morse code but cpu noise, so I didnt get to ask if it changed in pitch or intensity.
Wow you really went the extra mile. I’ve only spoken to him via email I believe and he was super short with me too.
TBH I didn’t wanna deal with it if it wasn’t an easy fix. I returned it back to the store today and am going to get a different preamp.
On a serious note Wally, cell phones are the biggest culprit these days. At work, my microphone and desk top speakers sound like a Geiger counter at Chernobyl if it is within 4 feet. A lot of *periodic* interference from these. Not to mention brain cancer%-/
I wondered about Southerland.. It sure has some good reviews too..
Good.. I pulled the trigger on a Puffin, while Decware catches up.. 24-36 week back log.. I paid Nov 3, 2020. I'm at 23 weeks. Haven't even pulled the parts, yet..
Puffin sure has a following.. I figure if it's OpAmp / FET, might as well be as flexible as I can.. Leave the tubes out of the circuit. Though it does make me wonder if the two might work together real well. Sure getting away from simple though. I'm usually not to fond of that.. Simple is good..
The units are real flexible and 1/2 footprint.. Same width (or close) to the Decware. Now if Soundsmith can catch up.. Man on man did that guy get sick.. I sure felt for him.. 3 weeks on a "Cart in stock" hasn't even shipped.. WAY behind too.. I'm patient though.. :-) I'll wait for quality..
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