Preamp Deal of the Century

Please, anyone of you have any experience with Syrah and Berning ZH270?. I plan to put the Merlin's BAM between them. Thank you very much.

No but I have a Sarah on order and expect to receive by....well Mick can't exactly tell me but maybe 2 months or less, I hope. I also have the VSM's and zh270.

I heard the Syrah with the Berning on Acoustat 1+1 electrostats (Discovery sig wire I think, which could have been better...).

Both have similar characters: liquid but very clear and dynamic. Not overly-accurate type of clear, but naturally transparent. My feeling was that the combo would benefit from some NOS tubes (both were stock at the time) and better IC's that would inable translation of greater bloom and depth (not the Discovery's strong suit). Maybe an NBS or Purist between the two might be nice.

If you like the Merlins like Tubegroover, then you will like the Syrah very much. You can then balance the detail by the rolling of the 6SN7's in the pre: Brimars if you like more detail on transient; Ken Rad black glass for more lush presentation. The pre is very nuetral - like the Berning - in this regard, in the best sense of the word.

Tubegroover, quite inetrested in your opinion when you get the Supratek. Let us know please.

What has been folks experience plugging their Supratek into: a conditioner, direct into the wall, an isolation transformer, etc?

I had a friend of mine,that left my house crying,after i blew his SUPRATEK with a the ugly,Musical far Musical CROFT vitale.
The supratek is only beatifull,that is all.
The CROFT COST MORE THAN HALF THE supratek!
High end,does not have to be expensive by spending MONEY in how it looks,the money must be in the CIRCUITRY (SAVE MONEY AND SPEND IT IN THE CIRCUITRY FOLKS! THE CIRCUITRY!!!).

Eminents, I had never heard of the Croft until your post. So I looked up the piece. The Croft may cost about half of the Supratek, but it DOES NOT have a phono stage. The phono stage of the Supratek itself justifies the $2500 price tag. The Supratek may not be the end all line stage (though I think it is pretty darn amazing), but it does have a world class phono stage.

There are a whole lot of preamps that cost much more than the Supratek that are not nearly as versatile or have as high of sound quality as the SUpratek does.

KF

Whether it be line or phono, I've listened to Croft and I'd have to say that Eminents is exaggerating profusely.

Also... This Eminents fellow is a Croft dealer! Isn't it great when dealers make claims like this in the discussion forums?

see ad:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1053570003&2&3&4&

Dennis the Menace asked about line conditioning results. I would also be interested in feedback on this subject.
My Syrah is plugged into a dedicated 20Amp line ( dedicated for all components) and I have very good results. The outlets are "constuction" grade, which I would rate only slightly better that standard commercial outlets. The Syrah is dead quiet with excellent dynamics. I have yet to experiment with power cords or line conditioners. Note that I did seperate the Syrah's power supply well away from other components and the pre section of the Syrah.

I no longer use line conditioners of any type. I found that conditioners cast their signature over the entire system - even into components which do not benefit from the conditioner. Upon extensive auditioning with various power cords and conditioners, I found that the conditioners only really benefited digital components. It seemed silly having one component plugged into a conditioner - given that the conditioners had multiple outlets.

For me, the best results were obtained by using various power cords - specifically chosen for each component - plugged into dedicated outlets. This allowed me to tune the system with far better results - and greater precision -than by simply using a power conditioner.

The Supratek signature can be tuned with either device (conditioners or cords) however in my system I haven't been able to find a robust cord which ads improvement without a negative side effect. For example, if my system has any more bass, it would be more than what seems accurate or appropriate. Many of the PC's I've tried on the Supratek have increased the "slam" of the bass dramatically and I find this puts the bass out of proportion with the rest of the music.

There is a point when a system becomes very difficult to balance... adding positive influence without taking or distracting.

Currently, I use a Bybee pro power cord with my Supratek because I found it to have little or no side effects.

BWhite is correct with many more advanced systems, especially ones that aim towards musicality, rather than just always going towards accuracy; namely, power conditioners become percieved as progressively sterile, in that the space is rendered more void-like, and harmonics loose that very-hard-fought-for last smidgen of harmonic depth (leading edge transients on breath inhale/exhale can loose "wetness" also, etc.). So, it gets tough. This is why you saw many guys going to Bybee's some years ago, and why some more are going towards Hydra's now; because their systems get along far enough and they still are following the "lower noise floor gives better sound" philosophy, but haven't realized yet that they can get by with "less" these days (see below)and these conditioners do the least harm in more advanced systems (I haven't heard the Stealth, but the systems I've seen like it do not lead me to a different conclusion).

The Supratek pre seems to act in this manner, in the sense that it likes good outlets (I have a...can't remember the name, the expensive ones that came out a few years back, mine has a "381" model number...I'm getting old), but doesn't seem to be cheered up by conditioners (it hated my Bybee Sig and that is one of the more palatable ones IMHO). I've never had a pre dislike the Electraglide Fat Boy, but the Syrah sure didn't like it. I ended up with the Discovery that I fished out of a box I hadn't looked into in ten years and it does no harm - which is a good thing. (Bwhite, I've got a Bybee PC laying around in the attic so I'll listen to it later on and let you all know what I think).

When you first start a system, and you get everything relatively balanced, power conditioners make a big difference. This is because, invariably, your system is digitally based, weighted towards accuracy (you can improve accuracy in a beginner to mid level system much more vis-a-vis harmonics, space, etc.). The digital gear likes to be filtered and the removal of artifacts and distortion in the space renders the source in greater relief, and whatever wrong the conditioner is committing on the musicality route is unpercieved because the system can't hear it yet, or its lack, so to speak. Then you follow the natural route and look into PC's, and, yes, they help. But, you start getting the creeping feeling (especially if you introduced tubes along the way) that "something" is being taken away. And, so, you get in this PC shopping/auditioning spree trying to find the balance - and sometimes you do, its just everytime you introduce a more musical component, the balance seems to go out of wack again, and always sourced in origin to the conditioner/PC system interaction. Finally, you end up removing the conditioner and concentrate on the cords and outlets, and the last five years of advancement in PC's makes this even more feasible (and, hence, why more people are beginning to see it). Conditioners came first many moons ago and were a good thing in the absense of better PC's outlets etc., but now this approach to system building is not as well entrenched. Yes, still keep the conditioner on the dig gear, and, yes, if you get a lot of crap into your lines from where you live you may need one, but just consider as your system advances that that conditioner that served you well in the mid-level of your system, may not be the same thing later on. Things change...

Thanks Asa. But what about isolation transformers? These aren't really filters, but rather regulators of the power, no?

Asa / Bwhite,

Does the Sound Application CF-XE fall into your categorization of "power conditioner" ? If no, what do you think of it ?

- Ken

Have only skimmed, but this is an amazing thread.

I'd like to know if anyone's heard the preamp with an Aleph? What are your thoughts of this combination? Front end is an Ikemi.

Thanks,

Hi Dennis, I think you know more technically than me, but I never liked transformers - even less than the so-called "purifiers" like the Bybee. Transformers came first - the big Tice's if you remember, commercially - and I always felt that there was some kind of ultra low level...discontinuity, is the only way I can put it (this in addition to the harmonic denuding, which happened because the pressurized "feel" of air, both within the sound projection ans around it, was reduced along with the mechanical artifacts of distortion). It was as if there was a gross distortion removed - the so-called grunge - but then also this subtle tension was introduced. It sounded like a super high frequency oscillation that could barely be heard, so you thought it could easily be ignored, but it couldn't. Hard to "see" if looking for it, but looking out of your peripheral perception, it was always there, and was quite un-natural. Was it the electro-magnetic fields feeding back into the IC's, or the nature of transformers in general, or were they just not good enough then, or...I don't know why technically, objectively, and there might be a good technical argument why transformers should sound better. But I've found that, like most ideas, even scientiific ones, they are good starting points - good pointers towards the truth, some better than others - but not determitive as far as experience. Although, again, I don't claim to be the expert on conditioners because I stopped listening then some time back, just my opinion.

Mprime, I heard the Supratek with an Aleph 3 amp - nice 'lil SS piece - in two systems, both sounded very nice, and particularly with the NBS Pro IC in between, which kept the Aleph from drifting into too much clearness (my experience with Aleph is that you want to accentuate - not tone, but bring out - its spatial qualities. With that approach, it usually maintains its detail/accuracy performance; but if you go for more detail on the IC/PC, you can sometimes end up with an amp that sounds like its not an SE SS Pass design, ie it sounds more "transistorized" so to speak). I had the Aleph/Supra in that later system for three months, but the NBS improved both systems in the same way. Actually, the Supra and Aleph sound quite alike, although the Supra is more liquid. Great dynamics, clarity, naturalness - just like you hear in the Pass stuff vis-a-vis other SS amps - but more liquidity and continuity in the Supra. If you like the Pass, you will like the Supratek.

I find it interesting that the subject of line conditioners was brought up as I as considering the "balanced power" route. I have been reading some positive things from current owners about the transformer-type isolation devices. See website www.b-p-t.com for more info. I am assuming that Asa is referring to this technology in his description of transformer-type isolation devices. I have also been reading that others like Bwhite and Asa have found that most "line conditioners" in general do tend to filter out some of the music as well as the noise. But I would like to get more feedback from others who have compared the best conditioners with isolation balanced-type units, and who else might agree with Bwhite in fine-tuning good power cords into their system.

Please everyone - don't take what I wrote the wrong way. I am not against power "conditioners" or power "filters". I think they are the most elegant solution for people who need multiple outlets and do not have the luxury of multiple dedicated wall receptacles. In fact, in those cases, these conditioners/filters are a necessity.

That said, I find that the conditioners/filters do have a sonic signature. I do not find that the signature filters out some of the music, I just feel that most of these filters/conditioners do not always jive with every component in a given system. For me & my taste, the conditioners/filters sounded best with only with digital components. In fact, many of these filter/conditioner products are considered "current limiting" (some aren't) and its recommended that amps not be connected to them for best results. I found that amps sounded best when plugged directly to the wall.

My preamp sounded better not plugged into a conditioners.

I felt kind of silly owning a multi-outlet conditioner with only one component plugged into it.

Unique power cords for each component made me feel less silly and I feel I got better results - but required many wall outlets.

Now.. Balanced power is a totally different (I've never used a BPT device) and I wouldn't consider those the same as the filter/conditioner solution.

I agree Bwite. I have never heard a conditioner in my system that didn't have a signature. Power cords for the proper application are a better solution for filtering than conditioning devices IMO. I have gone the mile of putting in multiple dedicated circuits with hospital grade outlets, a couple of those Albert Porter cryoed Hubbles along with a few others. The Hubbles are extremely well constructed and really grab. Contact is so very important. I also use 10 guage wire from the outlet to the breaker, a bit overkill I admit but this whole hobby is filled with that and I feel in excellent company with this crowd. The dedicated outlet/power cord route is probably a better solution for most and should be considered before going the conditioner route and having it end up in a closet or basement. "For What Its' Worth"

Like Bwhite & Tubegroover power conditioners did not enhanse my system. Their suggests to try different PCs and spend the money on better in the wall wiring, IMO is a better place to spend your power money.

I'm currently talking with Maui's solar expert to get off the grid. Yes, it's an investment, but unlike power conditioners there's a long term cost saving in addition to
cleaner power.

Sherod- if you try the bpt products please give us some feedback.

Aloha.

if i needed some extra outlets, i guess i could just get one of PS Audio's juice bars, or Cardas Audio's power strip...

Well folks, I ordered a syrah oct.2 and mick has just now started making it. It is a full 6 months before production. These guys aren't kidding about the wait. I'll post when i put it into my system: Emc1 cd player, rowland model 10, piega p10 speakers,vd pc's, az silver2 ic's, coincident sc's.

Six months is a long time IMHO. At some point, I would think that orders should be slowed, or buyers apprised, ahead of time, about length of wait. Basically, I'm glad people are getting a great product, that Mick is being rewarded for his work, but I know audiophiles are an antsy group when it comes to getting that next component. Would hate Mick's rep to suffer because he took on too much, no matter how well meaning...I've seen it happen before to some real nice guys...On the other hand, this is what happens when people BS'd over years find a great product, and, wonders of wonders, the new, small manufacturer doesn't let the small-fish-bowl notoriety go to his head and jack the prices up - which happens many many times. So, there's that too. Oh well, just have to wait I suppose.

Asa when I ordered mine I was told that it would be 3 months. To be honest I really didn't believe it as I expect that Mick is an optimist and I won't fault him for that. What I would fault him for is streamlining production at the expense of delivering less than the hand assembled product of legend lore per this thread. It has been 6 months which coincides with the time Streetdaddy ordered his, I sent out a check early October.

So if you're listening Mick, I'll not mind the wait but won't accept less than your best to date!

tubegroover... YOU SAID IT! i don't care if i have to wait 3 months, 6 months or a year! -- i just want to best he can do! so Mick, take your time and do your BEST! (my unit was ordered the third week of september, and is currently undergoing quality control... and boy am i excited!!)

Hey great, glad people aren't getting upset. I would feel the same if it was me, but, from a manufacturer's point of view - an expanding manufacturer - its important to keep in mind that there are all kinds of customers, and as volume increases, invariably, you encounter those who exepect ARC-type service.

Frankly, I think its the craftsman part of the equation that is the special part of this, and that is one of the things I respect Mick most for - as I do Jud Barber at Joule. Please understand that I did not mean to imply that less attention was the solution, or that a solution was even called for based upon the one comment above, only to remind that comunication on a product people are waiting months for from Australia with minimal US distributor support is important, and progressively so.

Tube and Dennis: I look forwards to your learned comments when yours come in.

I received my cortese linestage about 10 days ago. My cortese has one pair of RCA inputs and one pair balanced outputs, no source selector. Prior to the cortese I was connecting my DAC directly to my power amp. With the cortese, the noise floor of the recordings is not so apparent as it was in the no preamp config but all the detail is still there. One of the revelations of going to a no preamp config was that I found a song in my CD collection that has a very low-level of feedback in the recording that only lasted about a second. It frustrated me later, because at the the time I was so engrossed in the music that I forgot to make a note of the CD and track number, so I never could find the song title even though I went through my CD collection several times looking for the track. After I installed the cortese I happened to be playing the same CD in my jukebox player and listening from another room when I heard the feedback again. For the curious, the track is "simple faith" on CD "simple things" by chuck loeb. The feedback occurs on the left channel.

The first night the cortese was in my system I wept (literally, and I am a 6'5" former marine) with joy. I've had an occaisonal recording give me the chills before, but this was the first time I ever had one make me cry. The recording was "over the rainbow" performed by Kirk Whalum, it was the most beautiful sax and piano piece I had ever heard. At the time I was using stock tubes. Don't be misled by my previous statement and think the cortese is all syrupy and euphonic, because IMO the cortese leans slightly to the accurate and revealing side of things while maintaining a very natural presentation of the music.

In my system the cortese is extremely quiet with no self-noise or tube rush apparent at all. The only noise I ever heard was an occaisonal tic maybe once a day while my nos tubes were settling in. I have about 200 hours on the preamp right now. I wonder how long till breakin is complete? My current nos tubes are sylvania vt-231, rca 6l6gc, and sylvania 5ar4 (big bottle).

Great Jazzdude! Yes, I would say that the Supra's err just a smidgen towards "clearness" as opposed to sterilty; because they are not hyper-detailed, are liquid and not upfront I don't think they could be characterized as analytic in any way. I love my Joule, but its lushness is not what I recommend for everyone. Personally, I love wallowing in lush-ness, but I know most people do not, especially people coming from SS systems, or even tube pre/SS amp systems. In this sense, the Supra's are perfect for most people, and given the cost/performance ratio, a real no-brainer for 90% of even the hard core people out there. As I said, perhaps an Aesthetix IO with dual PS's or an AN M8 can take it out, but below ten grand (or more...), and with systems of 50K or less (or more in some instances...), its really a foregone decision. And that's why I've been pushing this piece so hard. Not in an absolute sense, but in an absolutely wonderful sense that more people can really make a BIG jump in their systems for a minimum of scratch, and let them start putting the money into other parts of the system where the Supra's now let them hear what some people have been saying and they just didn't/couldn't believe it. Its a shame that, usually, those super magical systems cost the price of a Mercedes, but with the Supra more people will be that much closer - and that's a great thing... Happy for you.

BTW, NOS tubes sputter a bit now and then. Doesn't mean they are going out, just the way they are sometimes. The right channel Tung round plate 6SN7 in mine was whining at a very low level last night and gone today. Did it two months ago also, so who knows, still sounds great.

my syrah is finally here. i'm just getting it settled in, and am initially impressed. the two best qualities about the pre for me are clearly it's dynamic energy (it just sounds totally unhindered), and it's smoooth presentation. i have a feeling i'll hear more as i continue to listen...

btw, from some initial tube rolling, my favorite 6SN7 is a round plate black glass tung-sol, NOT the kenrad black glass vt231 (which was a little dull compared to the tungsol, and noisy). i was surprised... i mean, that black glass kenrad is AWESOME in my vac 70/70.

i also have some national union black glass vt231 and sylvania 6SN7W (not the metal base) that i've tried: the NUs were along the same lines as the kenrad, but maybe a little darker, and the sylvania were on the dry side. the tungsol is a really nicely balanced tube for this pre, and is QUIET.

in my all tube system,i found the mullard gz 33,tung sol 5881,tung sol blacked out ,round plate 6sn7's,rca 6fq5a,and we417a to be the best combination.tube rolling with this pre is just amazing,it can transform a very good preamp into a great preamp.vibration control is also a necessity,as the top plate rings like a bell.bottom line is iv'e never had more fun with my system,than when i installed the syrah

Congratulations Dennis! Glad to know you've found a good tube combo for your system! The Syrah quite simply transforms a system into something much more.

Regarding the Ken Rads. There are actually 3 different versions, each with unique sonics. I know you said the KR's you had were VT-231 but make sure they actually say VT-231. There are KR's which do not say VT-231 (they usually say KEN RAD and that's it) and these are the darkest (dullest) of the lot. Still quite good but not to everyone.

Yes the KRBG are very good in some systems but not necessarily good in all systems. The Ken Rads tend to burn a little hotter than other tubes and wear out faster for whatever reason. As a result they can be noisy - especially if they were previously used in an amp.

Have anybody tried SARAH with PASS Labs X250 or another SS amp?
How it worked ?

I have the Cortese and a Sim Audio W-5. I think the combo works very well. Supratek preamps should mate well with most SS amps. You should email Mick with the input impedence and gain of the X250 and ask him if he has any concerns about component matching.

Hey guys. I would like to know what thwe consensus is re the gain knob on the back and also the gain switch on top of the unit. Also, which direction is what on the top flip switch. My amp is a model 10 Rowland. Thanks

i think it really depends on the sensitivity of your amp. i don't know the rowland, but my vac is pretty sensitive, and likes ideally under 20db of gain, so the top switches are set to low output (forward), and the back dial is set to highest output (all the way counter-clockwise).

hey bwhite (brian?)... i checked my kenrads, and they say vt231. something about them, maybe because i have them in my vac as well... just too much. sounds a little more veiled than the black glass tungsol.

you also liked the sylvania metal base 6sn7W... would this be similar to the black base, top getter, sylvania 6sn7W? i have a pair of these, and thought they were extended, but a little thin...

Hi Dennis - if your KenRads say VT-231 they are in the middle of the 3 sonic spectrums I've mentioned. In my system I find these to work the best - yes, their sound could be interpreted as "veiled" when compared to other 6SN7's but they deliver a weight and body that no other tube I've found can match. The rounds are much more open, a bit sweeter and dynamic.

In my system, I'd say my room is slightly "live" - so that adds a natural "air" to some extent. The KenRads tend to roll the highs slightly, push the midrange and give the sound a more natural overall timbre. Voices are much less metallic than with other tubes (Sylvania 6SN7W metal base).

I've found that most every tube has trade-offs. You just need to determine where in your system you can compensate for those.

There is never a sure fire tube implementation that works perfect in every system & for everyones taste (as I am finding out with my Aesthetix IO). The best solution is usually to try as many as you can.

Bwhite, good comparison of the black Ken and black Tungsol. Yes the Ken has better weight on bottom which lends an expansiveness to the sound, and particularly, at least on my system, in the depth field on such things as large drums (listen to Gladiator on this for example). I do not find the Kens veiled, but if a system is a little dark, or tends to veer off that way a bit more than some, it can sound...um, distant in that darkness, if you don't like that sort of thing (I do, BTW). Also, while I don'y think either is a screamer up top, they sound both about the same to me in extension. Its just that with the Ken bigger on bottom, perhaps it is percieved as being a bit less extended on top, maybe. Add in the darkness aspect (I love gloomy Connemara days on the coast of Ireland...) and I think the mind would percieve it as rolled on top, maybe, who knows...

Anyway, I settled for the Tung too, but it was a close call; I know what Bwhite is saying. And, yes, it was the harmonic sweetness that won out (and something else, see below). If the system I have the Syrah in now was itself more full range, however, I wouldn't be surprised if I went back to the Kens. One thing though, even more than the sweet/weight trade-off: the Tungs lend more of a feeling that players are more integrated in their playing. For instance, listen to well recorded acoustic guitars. One drawback of the Tungs - and this may be an interaction with my particular system, like a system might veer towrds darkness more than another even though it starts off as no maore dark - is that the voice image is smaller with the Tungs. You get used to it, and its not un-realistic, but I do miss the large projection quality of the Kens...maybe I'll put them back in, just for a second this weekend, and...well, there you have it.

Bwhite, better watch NOS-ing that IO. You may need deep, deep therapy at some later time (24, right?)...

WHY I see some suprateks for sell? do seller find better preamp?
thanks

I would like to know that too. Given the proportion of sales to the numkber of recent used ones for sale, like a spat, there seems to be something going on, maybe...

Are people getting the Supra and finding out its not for them? Let's hear the negative with the positive, if any. Fair is fair.

But please notice that they are selling it almost in full retail price!! So what is a deal in buying it (besides that you do not have to wait).

The deal might be if it is in as new condition you won't be running the risk of having it damaged during shipping i.e. some monkey in Customs repacking it like a 9 year old stuffing his toy box as Mom is screaming "Have you cleaned your room yet?" OUCH!!

For a practically brand new piece that has a 6 month wait paying full retail or close isn't a bad deal, is it?

I can comment on one of these sales as I recently purchased a Cortese that was listed here. The seller had bought the Cortese back in August, waited 4 or 5 months for delivery, then spent some time comparing it to another (much more expensive) preamp in his system. He decided he liked the other one a little better and listed the Cortese here. I was happy to pay close to full price to avoid the wait and import duties, so the deal worked out well for both of us. I haven't spent a lot of time with it yet so I'm hesitant to comment on the sound, but my initial impression is that it's every bit as good as this thread leads you to believe.

I think the long lead-time involved in getting Suprateks just naturally leads to a few new ones being listed here. People find something else, or relocate, or downsize their system, etc. before the Supratek shows up. I doubt this implies anything negative about the quality or value of the product.

auido gears come and go, it is normal. same with Supratek.
I will be very pleased to hear some different perspective on this preamp,particularly from these people want to sell it. Group Think sometimes apply among audiophiles.

The Supratek does require tube rolling to gain maximum sound. Perhaps the sellers have not experimented with the tubes, and when compared to other preamps( higher priced preamps) it sounds "lean". To current owners - do take the time to roll the tubes following the advise given in this thread. I am not sure about break-in time, however the action of the knob/contols did smooth-out after 3-4 months.

You guys are, of course, right. For myself, I know what I hear in the Supratek, but thought there might be some issues with system capatibility with some others out there, or some reliability issues arising as time goes on, or something better they heard, beyond the issues of the economics of our time (can anyone hear that sucking sound?) or our audiophile brethren's admittedly/notoriously fickle nature. Blips on the screen should be inquired of, I think. In any event, as you all have noted, nice resale.

Any of the supratek preamps that I have seen 4 sale on the GON seem to sell "immediately" at full retail or close to it [depending on condition]and rightly so.I for one...cerainly would have purchased one on the GON if given the opportunity- just to avoid the 9-10 month wait to have it made.The preamp truly is a world class reference product that can compete head on with anything out there- especially if your system is vinyl based.Some may not like its open tube architecture while others consider it an art form.I personally don't care one [way or the other] what "any" equipment looks like as long as it gets me closer to the music.I have 2 legendary Classic tubed preamps to compare it to and can honestly say the supratek will definitively stand the "test of time" and one day also become a cult classic as well.It certainly betters both my ARC SP-10 mk2 and my Luminesence B through the line stage and has the luxury of a remote to boot.The Supratek also betters the sp-10 when a low output moving coil is employed.I still prefer phono stage of the Lumi in my set up, however,to be candid, it is much like comparing fine wine or fine art. Different strokes for different folks!Chosing one over the other is another matter of perspective when it comes to selling.At this particular jucture in my life I would "never" sell my Luminescence and I would have a tough time selling my ARC sp-10 as well[sentimental reasons].I have owned it and enjoyed it immensly since 1985 and it has always been my benchmark for comparison!One day: one or the other will make it to the classifieds and when it does I suppose the fair market value at that time will dictate its worth.I for one would bet on the Supratek at maintaining its value and high demand.If your looking to buy one and the opportunity presents itself? "BUY IT" Its a no-brainer" The world would be a very sad place without music! Enjoy.

What about warranty if you buy second hand, is it transferable? I'm going to join club of happy Supratek owners somewhere in the future. So I really appreciate this thread.

I am the owner who just sold his just after getting it. Everything was great and build quality is top notch. I was forced to sell to raise $$$ for moving expenses. It takes so long to get one, a lot of things change in 7 months!
I sold mine for full list price and think that it was totally fair. 2650 for the pre and remote, 200 for nos tubes, 130 shipping, 150 for customs, tube dampers 20. Some people emailed me asking why i was selling a "used" preamp over list price. This thing was brand new{ less than 2 weeks} and you don't have to wait 7 months. Do the math and it comes up to over $3k. I know i would have bought it 7 months ago.

It's been since last october that I commented on this forum, but I just had to tell all who may read this that Mick's Cortese is a work of art! Nothing I've tried has even approached its ability to convey music in my listen room as though it were REAL, ALIVE, RIGHT THERE BEFORE ME! If you are contemplating buying one, do it now. Don't wait another minute. There is so much enjoyment ahead for you. This preamp (and all the comments from others in the forum) brought me back to vinyl and I couldn't be more please. Vinyl through the Cortese's phono stage is magical. It is music with all the life and dynamics that exist in the real thing.
Now I've ordered Mick's new Burgundy mono block amps. 100w into 8 ohm (more into 4). Each channel consists of two chassis. One is the power supply the other the drive and output section. The size of each is that of the Cortese's chassis. I've got some pictures of the prototypes if anyone is interested (oltzhome@aol.com). Can't wait (you know the story- months after months), but at least I've got my Cortese to keep me company.

I ordered my cortese in the middle of november and it was completed in the end of february, much sooner than I expected. So not everyone has the long wait. Don't know why mine was done so quickly but it is a linestage only with no source selector so that may have been a factor.

Someone here recently commented on the "open" tube style of the preamp's design. I think that is one of the strengths of the preamp since it allows for a wider selection of tube substitutes. It also allows the tubes to resonate in the open and dissipate heat.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about people selling the Supratek's. Firstly, be glad that they do sell. Secondly, if you are a happy owner why would you care what someone else thinks of your preamp. I have purchased about $7k in NOS tubes for my cortese, a lifetime supply. Me and my cortese will be together till I croak.