Asa, thanks for the advice. I managed to isolate the hum issue. It was related to the close proximity of my Syrah to my power amps, believe it or not. I had to rearramge my room again, and bring my power amps right next to my speakers, leaving the Syrah in the middle as far away from both amps as possible. Hum is now completely gone. I'm a happy camper now. Mick's preamp certainly wasn't at fault. As my turntable burns in further, I'm now beginning to see how good a vinyl rig can be. Fingers crossed it will overtake my CD player soon. Happy listening! |
Happy, outlier, that hum solved. Its a real pain if not found and didn't want you to get deterred from analog. Hope you like it. Try listening to analog for about an hour then switching back to CD. Somehow, the mind gets it easier that way. |
Strange, I always listen to analogue first then switch to cd; the other way around & the cd sound annoys me (no offence to redbook digital -- just habit)! |
Outlier, thank you much for the info regarding the remote.
To those who have the Syrah or Cortese, is the volume control a smoothly turning knob or a stepped knob? Has anyone asked Mick for something specific in regard to output control?
I'd also be interested in hearing from those who got their Supratek 'customized' and with what features?
Thanks in advance,
Travis |
As I said before after one channel went out and I had John Tucker repair it, he greatly modified my Syrah. One of the things we did was to replace the inexpensive pot with a stepped attenuator. Since he also made the unit parafeed, put a constant current source on the output tube, and switched to 6N1P from the 6SN7, however, I can tell you little about the benefits of each mod. |
T bone - the remote operates smoothly. Mick uses an Alps pot for the remote controlled preamps.
I fully recommend against having your preamp customized - beyond the remote.
Most every "option" I asked for had a problem. My first Chardonnay preamp was a a dog - Mick realized this and replaced it.
Options I asked for:
A single chassis version. - Mick tried and then 1/2 way through couldn't do it.
XLR outputs - Mick used the wrong connectors and a makeshift (engineered on the fly) transformer output that did nothing but make LOUD hum.
Theater by-pass. After explaing to Mick how this should work, he came up with his own solution and the results were less than optimal. To date, I don't know if the feature works or doesn't.
Remote. Mine increases in volume when you press the down button and lowers with the up button. Silly and quirky but annoying none-the-less.
Subwoofer output - works great but its a standard feature if you consider the fact that Supratek's come with two sets of outputs - one can be used for a sub.
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T-bone,
It is a smooth turning volume control. They are all parafeed now. |
Just get the standard.....it is what it is, not a Levinson. That's the lesson. Bwhite, how is the phono going? Etthan's too? Haven't heard either of you say, so thought it might have been disappointing over long haul, although hope not. |
Well, it's been 3 weeks with my Cortese and I am torn between the most wonderful music in my listening room that I can remember (over 30+ yrs) and noisy tube problems. I've got one of Mick's latest Cortese preamps. It was delivered with the adjustable output gain on the back for matching various amp inputs, XLR/RCA's (I use RCA's only), remote control volume (which works perfectly and is a blessing for this old body!), and what Mick states is his latest choice in a tube configuration for the line stage amplification section (1-6SN7 and 1-12B4A per channel). I've now gone through 3 sets of the 12B4A's and finally got a set that won't sit there and "spit" at me. Now one the 6SN7's is doing a "whistling" act. I came from all solid state (Spectral) system and I'm accustomed to quiet. But then again, I've never had music reproduction like this pre gives to me, not to mention that it has reintroduced me to VINYL which in itself is most rewarding. I've ordered a complete new tube set-up in hopes for a reprive from the noise. HELP |
I hear you, Ads. I have experienced quite a few quirky noises from the Syrah with some of the tubes I've tried, including Tung Sol 5881s, Ken Rad black glass VT-231s, and now Sylvania Metal Base 6SN7Ws. At first, I simply considered going back to the stock tubes, which were pretty damn good, even if not quite as "magical" as the others. But then the noise lessened some--maybe the tubes "settled in" or something. I really have no explanation, as I am still relatively new in this hobby. There is still some tube chatter occasionally, but I consider the glorious sound the Supratek puts out worth these quirks. I don't know if it is possible to get the Syrah dead quiet with some of the better NOS tubes. Asa, Bwhite, and other veterans can speak better to this. Good luck, and hang in there.
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Walter, you are dead on. The stock tubes are matched and balanced to each other very nice, but its hard to look back once you put some KenRad black 6SN7's in there. I've got 4 matched pairs, all primo NOS's in original boxes and they vary on noise. With that said, all spit in my face for the first 100 hrs and still can get cranky now and then. Basically the Supra is so discerning that you are hearing the tube's operation and with such high caliber stuff verything must be dead on. Its not that the pre is unstable, its just very very good and will tell you about a tube's given quality. Its a pain if you want to mucho magic, but as walter says, i think its worth it because once you get them right, they are stable. I've tried the Brimars (no noise, but too precise for me), Sylvania VT231 (alot like the black Kens, not as enveloping or expansive, but relatively quiet) and the ones I'm using now, Tungsol round plate black glass, which on this smaller system I prefer (sweeter, better micro-details on chestiness, guitar body, etc., not as expensive in depth field as Kens) and with very low noise.
I bought some tubes from a good dealer (Sylvania green letters) and they were so noisy I traded them back in for some RCA 12BH7 inputs on my amps. It was in the beginning and I thought, oh my God, I'll never get the noise down in this pre - but it wasn't the pre, it was the tubes.
You are getting a custom handmade $10-15K pre for $2500-5K and at that level things become exacting - its part of owning a Lamhorghini. Be patient, but know that it will never be a Spectral. Its not perfect, and should be kept standard, but if you get it right its very stable and will last you twenty years or more. |
One other suggestion I'd add to reducing noise levels/hum with the Syrah is to keep the preamp as far away from amps as possible. That's been my experience - I rearranged my room so that my amps were on either side of my Syrah and things suddenly got very noisy. When I rearranged again and moved amps far away, the hum went. It was particularly noticeable on the phono stage. Also, for whatever reason, I find having the tonearm on my TT close to my amp causes similar hum issues. All this could be just with my system synergy (or lack thereof ;-) but just thought I'd mention. |
Where do you get these special tubes you guys are refering to? As I'm writing this, I'm listening to vinyl and it is astonishing! Even though between cuts I can hear these damn tubes crackling away. But when Louis Armstrong blows into that horn, oh my God! |
I ordered a Chardonnay from Mick on Sep 3. He indicated that the wait time would be about 3 months. I hate to keep bothering him because it just will slow him down. Anybody else know what the current wait time is at this point. Also, has anyone tried using Aurios MIBs under the preamp?? |
Jimyork, The more he builds the of us are telling the world what a great pre it is and the more he gets behind in his production, guess the bod has to come with the good. Try the Symposium Roller Block Jrs. they work wonderful under my Cortese. |
Mike,
Sounds like a very delicious cycle. Sure am glad I like white wines. Anyway, I imagine it will just get better with time. |
Anyone used PS 300 or 600 with Multiwave in thier system. I like to hear your opinion. Thanks |
Asa - phono is astonishing and I don't even have the Syrah phono stage (yet). Simply using a Black Cube into my Chardonnay, I've acheived sonics that surpass all previous attempts at making digital sound "good". I haven't listened to a CD for about 6 weeks now and don't plan to. High end digital is a bit of a joke.
Mick plans to give me 100% trade in value for my Chardonnay when upgrading to the Syrah. That's fair :) 3 or 4 month wait though... Argh! So, I'm considering using a Walker Reference phono into the Chardonnay to see what that does - best of both worlds perhaps? Who knows... The Black Cube/Chardonnay is great as is and certainly kills other one box pre/phono units available, I'm sure the Syrah is better but I have a feeling that as long as the Supratek is in there somewhere, the magic will be there too. |
HaHa! Oh, I'm having a good laugh, Bwhite! I have taken so much flack over the last few months from members, about promoting vinyl over digital. It's so good to hear someone else saying it for a change.
Regarding other's comments about "quiet" tubes, they will not be as quiet as SS preamps. Especially in the phono section. But, quiet is not what we're after, is it? You can get "quiet" by turning the unit off. A reasonably low noise floor is all that is needed if the music is coming out.
I use 1950's Sylvania 6SN7's in my Berning, and they are very musical sounding to me.
Quiet, is something deadly that has been done to us by the digital/SS world. Quiet background, at the expense of musical content. I'm happy to take the little tube noise, and the vinyl ticks, to get a truer musical experience, any day. YMMV, as they say.
IMHO.
Enjoy your preamps, guys. It sounds like a wonderful value to me, and I'm glad to hear so much reporting on it. I feel like I almost know what it is like to own one. One day, maybe I will. |
Jwu5918, my friend has a Cortese and he is uning PS300 for his digital front end. the Cortese is plugges straight into the wall.
I used to use a PS600 and found that even though it was providing its wom "new" current, that plugging directly into the wall sounded better (more dynamic). |
I also had my Syrah plugged into a PS300. It improved detail but I thought it restricted the overall sound, like something was holding the music back. I got an Audio Magic Stealth and am very happy with it. Sound is more extended both up and down and wonderfully musical. YMMV. |
ditto on twl on quiet vestigial enlivened silence vs. SS blackness or voidness. Listen to pre with music and the space will be what it supposed to be.
twl, I can't stand it anymore! You have a great system, really know your analog, and the Magus is a fine pre (I assume you've got it tweeked), BUT, YOU HAVE TO GET A SYRAH!! At your point of appreciation its simply a CRIME that you can't get into one. I don't care if you have to find pennies in behind the sofa cushions and starve, GET ONE as soon as you can!!
There, I feel better....
Bwhite, very happy for you. A guy with a great system told me a couple of months ago that his Aesthetix external PS, NOS tubed, two box IO w/ vol. pots direct into amps inched out the Syrah in a couple areas, and I believe him (perhaps in his system), but for the $ in one chassis, there is NOTHING that touches the Syrah. Everyone should tell the gurus to stuff it for their next purchase and get one (then do the same with a Teres TT, also a great value).
Incidentally, my Syrah didn't like the Bybee Sig conditioner I had around; likes to be plugged directly into the wall if you can believe that (!).
Would be interested to hear what PC's you guys have tried on it. Thanks in advance. |
Twl - I am in full agreement about analog. I always thought if I threw enough money at it, I could make digital sound "right" and truth is (as I've discovered), my expectations were not realistic - in the least. Analog is right - out of the box.
Asa, you might be right about the Syrah phono stage being heads and shoulders above most and not far from even the very best. However, when I first began my analog lust - I compared the Syrah phono to a Michelle Dichrono feeding the Syrah's line stage and the sound was magical both ways. It was tough call which was better - both configurations had merrit (added liquidity going direct to Syrah Phono and blacker background with the Dichrono into Syrah line stage). Truthfully, I would be happy with either setup but I'm thinking the Supratek Grange will suit me best!! |
As you guys probably already know, I am currently going broke trying to pay for my custom prototype Berning amp. The preamp is next on the list, once I recover financially.
But listen to this, you guys. This amp(under construction now) is a hand point-to-point wired, no circuit board, 12vdc battery-powered, Single-Ended Triode, Zero-Hysteresis OTL(ZOTL), hand-wound choke-loaded, Type 45 tube amp with Emission Labs Mesh-Plate 45's, and Sylvania NOS 6SN7's, built by David Berning himself, with all his latest experimental tweaks, and layout dictated by shortest signal path without regard to convenience or style. It is one of a kind in the world.
You wanna talk about transparency? When was the last time you heard of a Single-ended Triode OTL? With Mesh-Plate 45's? The guy at Emission Labs where I got the $425 tubes, said that it sounded to him like the "Holy Grail" of amplifiers. Just imagine a Syrah in front of that!
What I would really like to do is to talk to Mick, and get him to build me up a custom battery-powered Phono preamp with ladder-stepped volume controls, dual mono, with no line stage considerations other than the minimum necessary to acheive the preamplification of the phono signal. I don't use anything else but phono in my system. No CD, no tuner, no tape, just phono. With a straight thru design, as much as possible. That would really be cool!
That way, I could go from the cartridge to the speakers with no transformers at all in the signal path, or in the power supplies. And no AC line grunge to contend with. Just pure clean battery DC power all the way through.
Yes, Asa, the Magus is tweaked well. All re-capped and re-wired, and re-jacked. It does real well, but I know that there is room for improvement. With this new amp, and a really well-designed phono pre, this system will be as clear as a plate glass window(with the window open!). It is not too far from that now. I can hear those Mesh-Plate 45's directly driving my Lowthers now, in my imagination. Straight from the tubes to the drivers, with no output transformers, and no crossovers, just straight wire from tube to driver, in Pure no-feedback Class A. Awesome!
Excuse me while I drool, but this is TOO much fun! I am anticipating this amp, just like you guys are anticipating the arrival of your Supratek units. This has got to be at least half the fun of getting it!
I am just loving this audio thing with all my heart and soul. I can't imagine having any more fun than this. I really hope that all of you are having as much fun as I am, with your own systems. |
For those of you experiencing noisey tubes, you might want to try Hal-O tube dampers. I read about them in the Tube Asylum and ordered them for all of my Chardonnay tubes (they are cheap), as well as my DAC tubes.
They made a tremendous difference. The clarity took a big leap forward, the weight of the music increased (the strings especially have more body), imaging is more specific (massed strings) and the background is much, much blacker.
The best money I have spent in a long time. This is a very audible tweak. It seems that my system lost a little air, but after listening, things sound more real with much more detail. I much prefer this sound by far. I think the air was simply high-freq hash disquised as air.
Not affiliated in anyway with these Hal-O things, just a "shocked" and very happy owner. |
twl, you have me drooling too!! Yea, the Berning is a keeper. A custom Supratek in front of it makes my knees go weak. Not much experience here with the 45 tube; so scarce and expensive try to keep myself from going places where my wallet might begin to scream these days. I'm with the WE300B and like it, but the choked amp, custom tweeked has me berry, berry envious!!
Thank you for sharing your enthusiasm. |
I really like this thread, because everyone here seems to be really enjoying themselves, and their systems. I would love to see more of this on other threads around the forum. You guys are doing what it is all about, and I feel alot more comfortable over here than on the other pages. Hope you don't mind me sharing a little of the joy that you all are experiencing. I'd really love to hear one of these Syrah preamps, but listening to you owners is the next best thing. Maybe it will be for me, in 2003. |
Hey Twl, If you're ever in the Asheville, NC, area, you're more than welcome to come over to my house and listen. Heck, if you're willing, I'll even let you do some tweaks to my turntable :-).
You're right. On top of landing an unbelievable pre, I've really enjoyed the good will and helpfulness on display in this thread. Great stuff.
Thanks for the tip on the dampers, Fiddler.
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Walter, thank you. I don't live too far from the Asheville NC area, so that may be a possibility. I would enjoy that. I doubt your turntable needs any tweaking, but I am flattered that you would consider me for that task. I really would like to hear that Syrah with your analog front end. Perhaps one day soon, when my car is out of the repair shop, I could contact you. |
Hey, That's excellent, Twl! I would enjoy it immensely. When your car is out of the shop, please do contact me. I'm actually about 30 miles west of Asheville--but still fairly close (perhaps even closer for you?). I just can't imagine a guy with your experience and knowledge wouldn't appreciate the Syrah. Best Regards.
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Hey Fiddler, where did you get the Hal-O-Rings and how much did they cost? Does one ring per tube do the job? I have seen them somewhere, but I can't remember where. |
Slowhand, I have seen the Hal-o tube dampers right here on the Audiogon Classified. I think that one of the main dealers puts an ad up regularly. They also have feet and other isolation materials of the same stuff.
I think that if you play reasonably loud, the dampers are a good idea for the Syrah. The Syrah has the tubes standing up right in the open. This allows alot of airborne vibration to get to them. Vibrating tubes in a preamp is not a good thing, because any vibrational effects that happen in them is going to be re-amplified many times as the signal proceeds down the amplifiction route. The situation would be the worst in the phono section tubes, where the amplification factor may be on the order of 100,000 times before it gets to the speaker. The Hal-O tube dampers seem to be a good design, and don't melt, from what I've heard. It is also important to get non-microphonic tubes for a preamp application, for the same reasons stated above. You see, the plates in the tubes also vibrate internally, causing anomalies. When you buy your tubes, make sure that they have been checked for microphonics, and accurately represented by the seller. Andy, at Vintage Tube Services, is very good for this.
The tube dampers sometimes make the sound less "airy" because in some cases, the "airy" sound is produced by some small level microphonic effects in the tubes.
Some people also put tube dampers on the tube bakelite bases to reduce vibration there, and sometimes even use a damping treatment to the tube sockets.
If you like some of the "airy" microphonic effect, you don't have to do all of the tubes, or use only one damper per tube, depending on your particular needs. |
Mick advised that construction of my Syrah will begin next week. My order dates to mid-June. Perhaps a Thanksgiving day treat!
Thanks to all postings with advice on tube recommendation.This will be the next challenge. I have been working on dedicated power while waiting for the pre.
The Supratek will be be in front of Air Tight ATM3 mono amps. Listening to other tube preamps suggests the Syrah will be a great addition, especially with the phono ( LP12 ). |
Twl, thanks for the info on the Hal-O-Tube dampers. I found the dealer that is selling them on Audiogon. I ordered a pair, and should have them sometime next week. I will keep you guys informed. |
Damn it!
I had the Rogue 99 Magnum, Switched to a Belles 20A with a Herron Moving Coil Phono Stage.
I prefer the Herron/Belles combo over the 99 mag with mag phono board.
I had a LLANO amp paired with my Rogue 99 and then.....
Damn it!
I list the Merlins for sale and a kind gentlemen brings his Berning ZH-270 over to audition my speakers with. I sell everything only to find out that the Berning lowest price is around 3800 after expecting at the timeto pay 2700-3K I sold my other gear.
So now my sytem is all up for sale and I was wondering if any of you would be willing to speculate on what I should get first the Berning or my next pre-amp.
I will say that I listen to my Spacedeck/Arm combo with a Dynavector Karat 17DII mostly. I started out with a Theta Casa Nova and now I've reverted completely back to vinyl. Funny how the process sometimes seems to work backwards.
Anyway, I hope I can sell my current gear to complete my next upgrade.
BTW, thanks for the informative thread. I must have missed this one over at AA.
Best,
Nathan |
Nathan, it is kind of a moot point as to whether to get the preamp or the amp first, if you don't have the other also. If you wanted to use digital source, the Berning has the volume control for direct input. That could get you by, while you are waiting for your Syrah to be completed, which takes a few months. But for your phono system, you'll have to have the preamp. The Berning would be a real nice match with the Syrah, due to it's transparency and speed. You wouldn't want to let the nice signal that comes out of the Syrah to get "bogged down" in a lesser quality amp. If you do get the Berning, get speakers that stay around 8 ohms, and don't dip too low. I know from experience that the Berning starts to "harden up" at the lower impedances, and loses that liquid midrange. It is not noticeable as long as you are above 6 ohms. |
Nathan
Since you are starting from scratch, the pre-amp would probably be the first place to start. As TWL notes and I would agree, if you are considering the Berning make sure you match it with a friendly load, 8 ohms. The Merlin/Berning synergy is magic if you have the rest of your system properly matched. |
I've read most of this tread in the last three days. So glad I stumbled upon it. Have been thinking of introducing a tube pre into my system to mellow it out (reduce brightness) and generally improve the sound. Was considering Audible Illusions but from what I've read the Syrah must be better. Would a Syrah work well with a Musical Fidelity A3.2cr amp? Speakers since July will need to change soon too (Monitor Audio 9i} but they were a big improvement over what I've been using the last 15 years. So much so that I listen to music just about every day now. |
Jeff,I recenlty bit the bullet and joined the many others with the addition of the Cortese to my previously all SS system (Spectral). It is the most rewarding thing I've done is the last 10 years! Not only am I now enjoying music reproduction like never before, but I have rediscovered vinyl which has totally made me rethink how digital will play in my system. How ever long the wait may be for your Syrah, wait. You will not be disappointed.
Now i have question for all the Supratek pre owners participating in this thread. I have Avalon spks (88db), presently drivinng them with Spectral DMA360 mono blocks and am very pleased with their performance (now that that the Cortese is driving them). But since I was so blown away by the improvement that the Cortese made when it was introduced into the system, I am wondering if you have any reccommendations for an amp(s) for my system. Power is a requirement (certainly a minimum of 100w per ch) |
Ads, I'm a tube guy, but if you like the Spectral/Supratek combo, I'd be hard pressed to find an alternative; I think that you might miss that iron fist authority of the Spectral's and their vanishingly low "noise floor". On the other hand, if that was the case, then I'd expect that you would have hated the noise of analog too, so somewhat perplexed what to recommend. When bwhite was putting some gear together, I recommended the 100W LAMM 1.1 monos. They're hybrid tube input, SS out and everyone i know has loved them. bwhite hasn't said much about them to me, but you might ask him. Apart from that, you'd be into a ton-o-tubes and I don't think that's the right move for you right away.
What did you have in mind: stay with SS, $ to spend, etc.? |
Asa, coming from the pro audio arena where SS rules (except for the mic pre's and compressors where we are looking to tame digital) I've been extremely happy with my ALL Spectral/Avalon system for many years.
Had my friend not pick up on a used Cortese and introduced it to me, I'd still be there. But as yo know for yourself, once you experience what Mick's creation can do for music enjoyment, you're hooked (at least to Mick's gear). I was curious as whether there is an amp out there that would make a similar improvement to my enjoyment. I know Mick is talking about some 100W babies and if they were available now, I'd order them sight unheard. I'm that confident with what he is doing, but they aren't and according to Mick it may be a very very long time before he can resume that project as he is so busy building pre's for all of us. I thank you for you candid comments and most likely will retain the DMA360's. They are incredible amps! |
I've been following this thread for a few months and have emailed back and forth with Mick. I'm very tempted to order the Syrah preamp (or conceivably even the Cortese) but a practical issue keeps intruding. The dimensions of the preamp and power supply (hwd) seem to require quite a bit of rack real estate and I'm trying to figure out of there's a trick to getting a normal rack to accomodate these units. I have a fairly typical 20" (or so) wide Salamander rack, which means that the units, which are 13" wide, can't sit side by side. Plus they need eight inches of vertical clearance, so that means two full shelves and the shelves have to be moved up/down to accomodate these things, thereby intruding on the other equipment. Am I missing something? Is there a way to configure the preamp and power supply to fit and leave room for everything else?
Thanks |
Slowhand, sorry for not responding. I have been out of commission with oral surgery (still am actually). TWL pretty much took care of it though.
Be back in a few more days. |
Ads, I´m going to try the combination Cortese-KR Kronzilla. This are dual mono-blocks 100+100 Watts RMS using two KR 1610 tubes per amp in parallel. I don´t have it with me yet but in the seller´s opinion "this Amps give the wonderful SET musicality with the power to run real speakers. Have supurb bass and smooth, delicate highs and midrange.
The 1610 tubes run very cool, have tremendous tube life and give wonderful musicality with much tighter bass and focus than 300B tubes".
I asked Mick and he told me that he has in his home a similar combination (Cortese-KR VT8000) and that it works very well. |
Schacter, I had the same problem with my Cortese. the solution (and necessary move to eliminate noise) was to place Pwr Supply on the floor next to the rack. You want the Pwr Supply (and for that matter any other strong magnetic-field producing device as far away from the pre amp as possible. I asked Mick to send my Cortese with an extra long embilical cord connecting the two pcs. I ordered a small (size) Stelf Shelf from Symposium to place the Pwr supply on. All really works well. You may have to re-arrange your gear on your rack to find the most noise-free arrangement, but it is worth all the effort. |
Mike: Thanks for the suggestion. That may not work for me in light of my configuration, but I'll get out my measuring tape and see. |
Decided to throw my hat in the ring. Today I ordered a SupraTek Cortese linestage from Mick. I'm sure it'll be 4-6 months till it is completed. This will be my first piece of tube equipment. Hopefully, I can get off this upgrade merri-go-round soon. After I buy this preamp, a new power amp, power cords for each, and interconnects.
OT, but I wonder if Audiophilia could be classified as a disability and compensated for in some fashion under the American w/Disabilities Act. Even a tax write-off would be nice. |
anybody here have experience with audio note preamplifiers and that might be able to comment on supratek vs audio note? |
c12366 I hoping to hear these comments also. The person who sold his Supratek on this thread went to the Audio Note pre |
yep, and there is that sweeeet lookin audionote M7 from singapore on the classifieds right now. would love to hear what that sounds like... |
