OK, BWhite, where are you? After reading your marvelous review of premium CD players in another thread and also reading your rave review of the Supratek preamps in yet another, I'm sure we would all be grateful for a similar "shootout" here between the Supratek and some other quality preamps such as Hovland, Joule, First Sound, Rogue, etc. I know I would appreciate it.
The Supratek sounds terrific, but how does it stack up against some or all of these units?
Supratek owners, speak out!
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Good answer, Fiddler. Since I live in the audio hinterlands, I have bought virtually every bit of my system (except for the speakers) as a result of research I have done on this site and by contacting members I trust. So far so good. Even though I LOVE my First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk 2 preamp, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to try the Syrah, especially since it has a phono stage and a remote (which the First Sound lacks). I'll try them both, then sell the "loser." The Syrah is in such high demand (three month back-order), it shouldn't be difficult to sell if it doesn't match up to the superb First Sound. If it does, I'll have a outstanding preamp with a phono stage for less money than my linestage costs alone. Sounds like a good "gamble" to me.
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Yes! Thanks for the update, Fiddler. I'm about a month behind you, so it may be that I will get my Supratek about the time the leaves are changing here in the Great Smokies. Looking forward to your next post.
Cheers,
Chris
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I'm in the same boat as Fiddler. Can't wait to get the Syrah and see how it sounds on my new Piega P10s. Should be fun times ahead!
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Updates please! Has anybody who's ordered one of these since January got it yet? Fiddler? Fiddler?! I ordered mine in late March and am just wondering where I am in the pecking order.
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Thanks for the tips, guys. I know a lot of people reading this thread must think there is a considerable amount of hyperbole about this unit, but it has truly transformed my system. Only problem so far: not enough sleep. I just keep thinking of songs I want to hear, albums I have to play. Oh yeah, I didn't get the remote I asked for either. But I don't care. The only way this thing is leaving here is if it malfunctions or someone takes it at gunpoint. Better be a big gun, too.
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Same here. Got an email this morning. I guess Mick finished up several of these about the same time. I look forward to the various reports that I am sure will be forthcoming. Time to start tube shopping for those Ken Rad black glass, huh?
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At last, the wait is over, for me and I hope all the others who ordered their units back in Feb/March/April. The Syrah arrived today and is now sitting happily in my system.
OK, first impressions: I must say, it is difficult to believe that a tube preamp could be this dynamic, yet still retain the finesse and allure of tubes. But hearing is believing. I have had a couple of excellent tube preamps, the Audible Illusions Modulus 3 and the First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II. I thought the Audible Illusions, though highly regarded, was still slightly underrated and one of the best values in high end audio that I have come across in my admittedly brief time in the hobby. Though it lacked the incredibly black background of the First Sound and was not quite as dynamic, the Mod 3 seemed more musical to me and somehow less compressed, at least in my system. I know the First Sound is highly regarded also, and I can certainly see why--it produces stunning sound. Yet, I often felt I was listening more to the preamp's performance than I was to the music, if that makes any sense. In the end, it was just too clinical for me.
So, what the hell, I thought I might as well try this bandwagon. It would be foolish to jump to any conclusions until I've had a few listening sessions with the Syrah and tried some tube rolling, but right off the bat it is clear that the Syrah is as dynamic as the First Sound and as musical as the Audible Illusions, and that is with stock tubes and only a few hours of play in my system. Who knows how much better this thing might get--I am definitely in uncharted waters. I look forward to others' reports. It would also be cool if fellow members of this growing fraternity would identify associated equipment so we can have a frame of reference. I'm still relatively new at this, and having the time of my life. Thanks so much to Bwhite, Asa, and all the others who have helped along novices such as myself.
My system:
EMC-1 24/192
Nottingham Spacedeck/OL Rega 250 Mod/Dynavecter 20XH
Piega P10s
Bel Canto EVO 200.2 mono blocks
Piega speaker cable
Jena Labs Symphony IC (cryoed)
Virtual Dynamics Power 2/Audition (cryoed)
Virtual Dynamics cryoed outlets on dedicated circuits
My listening chair beckons. Oh, by the way, does anybody know where I can nab some Sylvania metal base or some Ken Rad black glass tubes?
happy listening to all--
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Hi Betcha--
I am among those pairing the Syrah with solid state--I use Bel Canto EVO 200.2 mono blocks and am very happy with this configuration. Like a lot of others, I can't help but wonder about Mick's power amps--could they possibly be as good as the preamps?
Mike, I have a similar situation with my analog set-up. I have a Dynavecter 20XH, a very fine cartridge, but possibly not the best match with the Syrah due to its high output. I am thinking of switching to a Shelter 501.
I know it's been said repeatedly in this thread, but the Supratek has, more than any other piece of gear I own, brought an unbelievable musicality to my system. I literally cannot wait to get home at the end of the day and listen some more.
BTW, the Ken Rads (black glass) do make a noticeable improvement. Now I'm waiting on some Tung Sol 5881s and Sylvania Metal base 6SN7Ws to play around with. Hard to imagine things will get much better though...
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I hear you, Ads. I have experienced quite a few quirky noises from the Syrah with some of the tubes I've tried, including Tung Sol 5881s, Ken Rad black glass VT-231s, and now Sylvania Metal Base 6SN7Ws. At first, I simply considered going back to the stock tubes, which were pretty damn good, even if not quite as "magical" as the others. But then the noise lessened some--maybe the tubes "settled in" or something. I really have no explanation, as I am still relatively new in this hobby. There is still some tube chatter occasionally, but I consider the glorious sound the Supratek puts out worth these quirks. I don't know if it is possible to get the Syrah dead quiet with some of the better NOS tubes. Asa, Bwhite, and other veterans can speak better to this. Good luck, and hang in there.
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Hey Twl, If you're ever in the Asheville, NC, area, you're more than welcome to come over to my house and listen. Heck, if you're willing, I'll even let you do some tweaks to my turntable :-).
You're right. On top of landing an unbelievable pre, I've really enjoyed the good will and helpfulness on display in this thread. Great stuff.
Thanks for the tip on the dampers, Fiddler.
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Hey, That's excellent, Twl! I would enjoy it immensely. When your car is out of the shop, please do contact me. I'm actually about 30 miles west of Asheville--but still fairly close (perhaps even closer for you?). I just can't imagine a guy with your experience and knowledge wouldn't appreciate the Syrah. Best Regards.
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Jeff SS, I also have a Spacedeck and just ordered up a Shelter 501. I will be glad to let you know my impressions as soon as I get the cartridge, which will be paired with an Origin Live Silver arm. I am confident it will be a great match.
Good review, Tubegroover. I think that about sums it up. Believe it or not, the Syrah WILL get better as it breaks in, especially once you settle on your particular "flavor" in tubes.
I continue to be amazed and delighted by the difference it has made in my system.
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Lisbon--
Jazzdude is correct. I have had the Plinius SA-102 in my system for the past several months now, and it sounds great with the Syrah. Previously, I had Bel Canto EVO 200.2 amps in a monoblock configuration, and while the sound was extremely good, with no real weaknesses I could identify, I still felt something was just missing--a certain "palpability" if you will. The Plinius did make a significant difference. Now the sound is richer and deeper, and yet all the finesse of the Bel Cantos is still there, too. In other words, the palpability is there, and then some. While I am far from an expert and a relative newbie compared to others here, I think the SA-102 is an excellent amp and a very nice playmate for the Supratek. Ignore the lackluster review in TAS this month and audition one for yourself if you get the chance. Email me if you have any more questions or concerns.
happy trails...
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Hey, Larry--
The First Sound is an excellent preamp, no question. I had it in my system for nearly a year and enjoyed every minute of it. I could have lived happily with it, I believe, were it not that I wanted to get back into vinyl, wanted a pre with a phono stage, and stumbled upon this thread when it first appeared. In short, I did wind up ordering a Syrah and put in my six months of waiting like everyone else, so I have had the opportunity to compare and contrast these two preamps.
The First Sound definitely paints a blacker background and is less sensitive to tube noise, although the Supratek can get pretty quiet if you fiddle around long enough with isolation and, more importantly, getting good tubes. It takes a little time, but is well worth the effort. Still, advantage in this area goes to First Sound, which has the lowest noise floor I have heard in my system to date. It is almost eerie, especially for a tube preamp.
Also, the First Sound is incredibly dynamic. Matched with components that are up to the task, this preamp will rock your world. It has incredible impact on all kinds of music. If you lean toward solid state, but want some tube warmth in your system, the First Sound may be the ticket for you, as it has NONE of the "mushiness" frequently associated with tubes. It is clean and clear as a whistle, but without any grain or stridency.
The Supratek, on the other hand, is much more liquid and has a far better layering of instruments, WITHOUT sacrificing dynamics. By comparison, the First Sound seems almost compressed. I think this is the main reason so many people are in love with the Syrah. As has been said before, there is something about its presentation that just feels "right." With a lot of audio gear, even the First Sound, I am more aware of listening to the gear--this one does that better, that one does this better--than the music. That can be fun, but it's not really what it's all about for me. With the Supratek, you can let all of that go and just enjoy the music. I have found nothing in high end audio that I would consider as purely musical as the Supratek.
Some people may prefer the First Sound, and it is a terrific pre, but I much prefer the Syrah in my system. Believe me, it was worth the wait. With the best restaurants, it will be the meal you remember, and not the wait. The same thing applies here, I think.
Best of luck.
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Stiltskin,
Welcome to the club. Since there is not much of a way to audition Supratek gear, most all of us here have had to buy on faith and the testimonials of strangers. If you have spent any time reading through this thread, you know already that the vast majority of folks who have made this leap are very glad they did so. Happily, we have all abandoned discernment and are now enjoying the music like never before. My advice--not that you need it--is to avoid buying any bridges from bored (and boring) trolls. Save your money for NOS tubes. The stock are fine, but finding the right tubes for your system will take you to another level. We look forward to your report when your pre arrives.
Merry Christmas.
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Khrys,
I should know better than to continue down this path with you, but since you seem intent on doing whatever you can to cause trouble and thumb your nose at us, I must respond to your implication that the Supratek deal wouldn't be quite so sweet if an owner finds it necessary to send the unit back to Australia for servicing. As it happens, I had to do just that with my Syrah, due to some noise in one channel, the cause of which Mick and I could not pinpoint after several email exchanges. So I boxed her up and sent it back to Mick. In less than three weeks (including the time it took to ship there and back), it was back in my system, good as (no, better than) new. Mick responded to my initial emails immediately, and took a lot of time trying to solve the problem so that shipping the pre back would not be necessary. When that didn't work, he split the cost of shipping with me and fixed the amp the first day it arrived in his shop, stopping work on new units to attend to mine right away. He then kept it for a couple of days to make sure it was functioning properly, and kicked in a free upgrade to the most current specs (I had had the Syrah for a year before the noise began, and it only occurred in the phono stage). In short, I got an upgrade for half the cost of shipping. I believe Mick now has someone in the states who can work on the units, should that be necessary. I would rate his customer service as second to none.
I find it ironic that you would disparage those of us who bought the Supratek gear largely based on Internet testimonials of other audiophiles (some of whom may even have a frame of reference to rival your own!). Just to be clear--we have all actually HEARD the Supratek, and you haven't, right? Given that, your level of "discernment" on this particular subject is astonishing indeed.
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"The defensiveness I have inadvertantly elicited speaks volumes about the insecurity of those so supposedly satisfied with their purchase..."
Well, let's see here, Khrys. You've come upon a thread which is undoubtedly one of the most amazing in the history of Audiogon due not only to its length, but the overwhelming consensus and joy over a relatively unknown product that has transformed so many systems, and you feel compelled to jump into the fray with no experience whatsoever with the product. Your "devil's advocate" position, as far as my feeble mind can discern it, breaks down as follows:
1)Anyone who buys the Supratek without auditioning it first is a sucker by definition because:
a)it isn't carried by dealers
b)it hasn't been reviewed in major audio journals
c)it hasn't been showcased at CES
d)it hasn't been widely advertised in commerical ads
2)Anyone who buys Supratek gear is incapable of an objective response to it because we have been suckered into buying it in the first place, and are now "stuck with it." Therefore, we have no choice but to like it in order to validate our irrational behavior and "lack of discernment."
3)Anyone who buys Supratek gear is a fool because something might happen to it, and then where would we be?
I think your ego has caused you to misinterpet our responses to your inane posts, Khrys. You see them all as just another attempt to validate our purchases as an overreaction to your superior critical thinking skills. In fact, we are simply pointing out the obvious to all potential Supratek customers--YOU have not heard the gear and we have. Your implication that the audiophiles who have bought and love Supratek gear are sheep--unable to form objective critical judgments about it--is beyond ridiculous. I would wager that there are few, if any, Supratek owners who have not bought other audio gear (whether based on word of mouth or your precious reviews and advertisements) that, once in their systems, did not quite suit them for one reason or another. I don't know if you've noticed, but audiophiles buy and sell equipment all the time--once in a great while, you will even see a Supratek unit for sale on this site--often because we buy things that are not quite what we had hoped. For the vast majority of us in this thread, the Supratek is that rarest of audio birds, gear that not only lives up to but exceeds expectations.
Make no mistake about it--we are not defending our purchase to you, to ourselves, or to anyone else. We are defending a company that has given us all so much joy, while reassuring potential Supratek customers that your arguments are utterly baseless. Each person can make up his/her own mind whether the consensus and testimonials of so many experienced audiophiles with nothing to gain from their endorsement are more or less persuasive than a magazine advertisement or a review in Stereophile....or your "devil's advocate" protestations.
One last thing---your apology would come across as slightly more "sincere" if you did not follow it with another insult. But thanks anyway.
Happy New Year to all.
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Let us know how you like that Joule, Jim. It would be interesting to compare and contrast it with the Syrah. I think Asa has one of each in two separate systems and loves them both, if memory serves. We all should be so lucky.
If I ever have the scratch for a second system, I will definitely try out the Joule. But my Syrah isn't going anywhere--unless Mick comes out with something better in my price range, that is. The latest iteration of the Cortese is awfully tempting, but just a tad out of reach... |
The First Sound is an excellent preamp--it has a "blacker" background than I have been able to achieve with the Syrah, and is incredibly dynamic. However, I believe the Syrah has a much more layered sound and just seems more "right" to me. By comparison, I felt the First Sound's presentation was slightly compressed. For what it's worth, I am using a Plinius SA-102 with the Syrah and have not tried a tube amp with either the Syrah or the First Sound, so you may want to cast about for another opinion. All I can tell you is that once I heard the Syrah, I have never looked back and never get the itch to upgrade my preamp. Only when someone convinces me that the new Cortese is that much better than the Syrah will I consider selling it.
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Khrys,
You may not know a thing about Supratek gear, but at least you have me convinced that you are an absolute authority on what idiots know.
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I think there are at least a few of us fortunate enough to have had both the First Sound and Supratek preamps in our systems at various times, and in all fairness I should preface my remarks by saying it seems to be a split decision on which is "better." I recall reading somewhere in these forums--perhaps it was in this same thread, many chapters back--that one member definitely preferred the First Sound, and I believe he had the same iteration I had, which was the Presence Deluxe Mk2. While I very definitely admired the characterics of the First Sound, in the end I found that I preferred the Syrah, a judgment that comes with all the usual qualifiers (in my system, according to my listening preferences, etc.).
So my impressions, for whatever they're worth:
First of all, I thought the First Sound had absolutely stunning dynamics, jaw-dropping as the cliche goes, but an apt description of my reaction the first time I heard the unit. Another quality I admired was the First Sound's uncanny black background, much better in this regard than the Supratek (although I have found that if you are very patient, you can do wonders lowering the noise floor with the Supratek with various tweaks--isolation is really important, as are finding the right tubes, of course. My Syrah is quiet now, but still not as eerily quiet as the First Sound was).
On the other hand, and I guess this is where the battle will be joined, over time I just felt that there was something not quite right with the First Sound in my system. While I continued to be impressed with the slam and absolute clarity of the First Sound, I felt that the soundstage was somehow slightly more compressed than I would want from a tube preamp. Granted, I had solid state amps--Bel Canto EVO 200.2 monoblocks for awhile, and then a Plinius SA-102--and the issue may be entirely one of synergy. But I can also say that I traded notes with another owner of a First Sound--who also admired it--and he had pretty much the same take on it in his system. He eventually moved to a Joule preamp, and said the soundstage was much more layered, more holographic, with the Joule which is just how I felt when I moved over to the Supratek.
For me, the Supratek, properly matched, tweaked, and tubed, simply gets the music right more than any other preamp I have heard. It strikes the right balance between dynamics and slam, crossed with the liquidity and magic of tubes. I have lived with it for a couple of years now, and the only time I ever think of upgrading is when Mick comes out with his latest and greatest. But with two kids--including a newborn--I doubt I will be upgrading anything any time soon, unless it is my spending priorities. That's OK, though. As long as I have the Supratek around, I'll be happy as a clam.
If it is practical for you, I suggest you try both in your system and keep the one you like best. Should be a cinch to sell the runner-up. Was for me.
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Let's see. Nearly 3,000 posts over a five-year period written by dozens of different people, you see a couple of negative ones written by the same guy, and you are ready to dismiss the whole lot? Exactly who is "small" in their perspective?
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As far as I know, no one has suggested that the Supratek is "beyond criticism." It is simply a preamp that very many audiophiles have bought and now consider the "crown jewel" in their systems because they find it pleasing to their ears. Maril555, with all due respect, what evidence do you have that this number represents a "scewed (sic)sample"?
Obviously, audiophiles are a finicky lot by nature, and no product will ever satisfy every one of us. I think what I find irritating about these recent posts is NOT that they are critical of Supratek gear--if you guys say you have a glare in your system, I don't doubt that that is what you hear. It's the assumptions embedded in these "critiques" that irritate me: One, the positive reponses represent a skewed sample. Two, people who have less than satisfying impressions are reluctant to post them because they don't want to be negative. Three, people cannot be relied upon to give their real impressions because it would negatively impact resell value. In short, it is assumed that there is this "pool" of people out there somewhere who have had bad experiences with Supratek gear who are simply not posting about them.
In my years in the hobby, it has certainly not been my impression that audiophiles are reluctant to post their impressions--good or bad--of the many different pieces of gear that come and go in their systems. My own impression is that people in the hobby can be as ruthlessly honest about stuff they don't like as they are prone to hyperbole in lavishing praise on the stuff they do like.
What we have seen in this thread is that a great many people love the Supratek gear, while a handful of others have found problems that detract from their enjoyment of it. It is absolutely true that the experience of the many does not negate the experience of the few. It is also true that the experience of the few does not negate the experience of the many. If we can agree on this, why look for theories on why there are so many more positive responses than negative ones, UNLESS you have an ax to grind?
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Maril555,
I am sorry you had a bad experience with Supratek. Of course, we only have your side of things, but whatever the case, I hope it is resolved soon.
You say it is "interesting" that you have received no responses to your criticism. For one thing, now that the company is defunct, it is unlikely that many people are following the thread anymore. That may be part of the explanation.
As for questioning the integrity of the members who bought and loved their Supratek preamps, you have overstepped. I bought a Syrah very soon after this thread began, and I loved it. It was much more musical than the preamps I had had previously, including a First Sound, SimAudio, and Audible Illusions. When my pre developed some noise in the right channel after a year or so, Mick worked with me to try to resolve it. I ultimately sent the preamp back for repair, and it worked well for several months before developing noise once again. This time, Mick made me another preamp, with an upgraded phono stage thrown in for my trouble. I basically got a brand new Chenin with the Cortese phono stage for the $2500 I originally paid for the Syrah nearly three years prior. I was very pleased with that preamp, and while I eventually did move on from the Supratek, I still have very fond memories of it and Mick's support of his creations.
Of course, this in no way negates your experience and perceptions, but if you insist on disparaging both the developer AND the members who enjoyed their Supratek preamps, some balance might be in order. It appears that the vast majority of contributors to this thread greatly enjoyed their Supratek preamps. Should we therefore question YOUR integrity?
Interesting... |
Maril555,
Come now, with all due respect you did not "simply tell your story." You questioned the integrity of Supratek owners whose experience differs from yours, and you made a snarky remark when members did not immediately post in support of your comments. You may well have been wronged, but attacking the integrity and credibility of other members does little to advance your cause.
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