Preamp Deal of the Century

I doubt it can be touched for the money Baranyi, it can be safely recommended without worry. I have heard a few other amps in my system and as far as the Berning goes for what it offers you would have to pay considerably more to get comparable performance. I would go even further, I know a few Berning owners that have traded down mega expensive ss amps in favor of the zh270. The Spectron has been mentioned with the Von Scheikerts as a reference but after personally listening to that amp next to the Berning with the VSM (read that cavaet!), it really didn't come close. It sounded compressed and closed in by comparison. The Berning is more than good at the price it is reference caliper amplifier at any price with any amp in its power rating, it just misses in the harmonic presentation of the SET's but nothing is perfect except for maybe TWL's 1 watt ZOTL 45 SET "Holy Grail" the best of all worlds except maybe for the 1 watt, but I can only imagine the perfection of that 1 watt! IMO. May the cannon fire begin.

Ecclectique - How do you "discover" these wildcat tube substitutions? FWIW, the 6V6G and similar tubes also work as regs in the supratek.

Tubegroover: The Supratek Merlot monoblocs come pretty close to the notion of 'perfection' in a power amp, from what I've heard. So long as you have loudspeakers that can do them justice, i.e, are happy to run on 18watts of Single Ended Triode power.

Regards,

Steve M.

Baranyi
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I would suggest that you consider jumping up to the new Cortese if your budget can stand it. Mick has upgraded the Cortese & Grange but left the Syrah alone at this point. The Syrah is beautiful and the Cortese (older version) is heavenly with the right NOS tubes. I just can't imagine what the new Cortese or Grange sound like.

Either the Syrah or Cortese will plaster a major smile on your face that will not fade.

I will be happy to sell my one year old Cortese so I can order the newer Cortese or Grange.

Hi everyone: Any opinions on Vacuumtubes.com as a retailer? Also, would you recommend buying new NOS tubes as opposed to used ones at 50% discount labeled as (used but tested good). For example, a NOS Mullard standard-base 5AR4/GZ34 is listed for $95 while a used one is $45.

By the way, I received my Chardonay back in 8/2002 and its still fitted with all stock tubes. Upon my recent return to this thread I was instantly inspired by posts from folks like Ecclectique, Bwhite & others. I figured it's time to make some adjustments.

Thanks in advance for your tips.

Thanks for the offer. I will consider it but the Cortese seems a little out of price range right now. I also have my heart on the Berning zh-270 right now. Why don't you have your Cortese modified as was offered on the thread by Mick?

Steve the Merlots may excel in most areas but it is the area of bass performance, extension AND definition that I would question their mettle compared to the Berning. This amp is in another league with reference to tube amps in that performance area. Imagine an amp that has the bass, airy upper frequency extension along with the harmonic presentation of the best SET's without being euphonic and you would have the perfect amp. If the Merlots do all that I would love to hear them. Haven't heard an SET do it to date. The Berning only falls a bit short in harmonic realism but it sure isn't a slouch in that area either. It is quite amazing especially tweeked out.

Jewel... My take is that if you can buy good used tubes to try, DO IT. When rolling tubes, you'll want to sample as many as possible. Buying NOS, or NIB tubes is way too expensive - especially if they end up not fitting your tastes.

Once you nail down the best tubes for your system, then you can buy NOS versions... and a few back ups.

Bwhite: Thanks very much that is really good advice except, you're a few hours late - I already placed my order for a complete replacement set (used NOS tubes) this afternoon. But I'm sure these will out shine the stock tubes no matter what. My picks were based on what I picked up from yours & Ecclectique's earlier posts. For 6S7N I picked a pair of KenRad VT-231 (black glass) and for the rectifier, a Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 and a pair of Tungsol 7581/KT66 for the 6L6 application. These should arrive in just a few days. I'll be sure to update everyone on their performance in my setup.

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Baranyi,

I thought about asking Mick to upgrade my Cortese, but I don’t think I would be willing to live without my Cortese during the time it would take to have it upgraded.

I will probably have to order a new Cortese and then sell the one I have now once the new one arrives. I would just like to hear from anyone that gets the new Cortese that it is a significant upgrade over what I have now.

You will be thrilled with whichever Supratek pre-amp you pick. Good Luck.
.

Hey Jazzdude. Discovering wildcat tubes???? Hmmmmmm . I have been working with vacuum tubes ever since building my first tube gear [dyna pas and mk2 amps kits] in grade 9 electronics class [1967].A little story here..... My first employment in the working world was as a techie for Bell & Howell[Dukane] in their microfilm division.One of our biggest accounts was at the Westinghouse plant in Hamilton Ontario[transformer division]. I will never forget walking into their computer room and seeing a gigantic Univac computer that employed more than 18,000 vacuum tubes! Next to the computer room was a storage facility to house their massive tube inventory.The late Archie MacIssac, who was their Chief electrical engineer at the time,He and I became very close friends. Archie saw the writing on the wall regarding the demise of the vacuum tube from a technical perpective and began collecting tubes. His collection was something to behold, facinating, and enormous! Tubes from all over the Globe, dating back to the earliest stuff, including gigantic watercooled Eimac power triodes and pentodes,some of these tubes are worth a small fortune today.Over the years,I too; became a collector of vacuum tubes and now have a rather humble collection of some very rare tubes .However, most of my collection are limited to audio tubes per sey. I also collect vintage tube gear, but have [reluctantly] sold most of my collection off in recent years, due to space limitations and the mess of stuff that aways seems to accompany these things. However...Sure wish I had kept some of that great old stuff today! If one is to collect vacuum tube gear, one better learn how to repair and retube the stuff.I think its a "given" that the tubes employed in most any circuit designs can make or break the way it will sound in any given system,especially if that given system has the abilty to resolve the amplified imformation.Particularly the vintage stuff,but much of the modern stuff as well. Its really a shame, that todays designers are literally "handcuffed" because of the availabilty and the prohibitive cost of many of these great NOS tubes .Unfortunately, for us anyway, many designers of modern tubed gear have really no choice but to "voice" their creations with todays mediocre sounding modern tubes,their hands are tied!That said.... a lot of the modern stuff[not all] can be transformed into a whole higher order with the great old nos valves. After all,vacuum tube research reached it's pinnicle in the 50's and early 60's.It really shouldn't be much of a surprise, given todays superior passive parts[wire,capacitors,resistors,diodes etc]when designed around good linear transformers, that we are now seeing products coming to the market that are pushing the envelope [sonically speaking]at reasonable cost [in todays dollar]. Relative to the "old guard" well established Corporate American companies .Any one remember the cost of the Marantz 7 or model 5's of the era?Astramonical in todays dollar! There has been an underground movement in DYI vacuum tube audio for many years. In this "imformation age" and the ever growing internet, I am certain we will see many more Supratek-like pruducts reach the masses.A really good thing for the open minded Audiophile. [Audiophile?] geez... I really hate that handle. All the more reason to start collecting those great nos tubes before there ain't any more to be had. Hell...ya need to take out a second mortgage to acquire some of these tubes! We will also see more people designing equipment that will employ "alternative" tube types, due to the cost and availablity of the traditional audio triode tubes used in commercial audio equipment.Interesting, how the industry adopted the 9 pin miniature triodes[12au7,12ax7,12at7 6dj8 et] as the the norm in the amplifiers from the 60's to modern day stuff . Considering the stuff of a decade earlier used their octal based family equivalents . The 6sl7's operating characteristics are basically a cross between a 12ax7 and a 12at7.The nearest 9 pin equivalent would be a 5751.The 6sn7 has the same average plate characteristics as the 12au7 but with a hotter filament.The 6BL7 resembles the 6dj8 miniature triode so common in todays equipment but it has slightly less gain and even lower plate resistance.The basic octal base family of dual triodes evolved from the 30's and 40's and were used mainly in WW2 military communication equipment. The 6sn7 was so highly regarded in private industry that Univac employed them in their computers.Later iterations evolved into the 5691[6sl7]and the 5692[6sn7]Given identical circuit topology,these octals elicit a more linear and focused sound than a 12a?7 or 6dj8,are more extended at the frequency extrememes while also expanding the space and perimeter of the soundfield. Given the demand for these nos tubes,the better ones are now commanding prices approaching that of the premium 12ax7's and 6dj8's so common in modern equipment.The circle will turn again and a new bread will emerge using equivalent alternatives to the 6sn7 and 6sl7 octals. Relatively inexpensive octal triodes from the same era with similar electrical characteristics. Take the 6DN7 and 6EM7 for instance. These are great sounding dual triodes that are dirt cheap from any tube dealer not to mention ham fests and flea markets.We can thank the alternative free thinking pioneers of the industry,men like Scott Franklin and Bruce Moore who introduced the magnificent Luminesence octal based preamp in the early eighties. The Lumi's design topology employed many of these octal based triodes, all hand wired, point to point with discrete circuits and fully regulated vacum tubed power supplies.This preamp was such a radical design change from the accepted norm in the state of the art designs of the day.At the time,the ARC sp-10 and the CJ premiere 3 were considered at the edge of the art and the king of the hill .There is no doubt in my mind,the Lumi was the catalyst and the inspiration to much of the octal based triode tube designs emerging today,.....Supratek included.

Baranyi,

You will be very happy with the Berning/Supratek combo. This is a match made in Heaven. I have a friend that has a pair of Sound Lab M1's. These speakers are HUGE! We hooked my 10 lb Berning up to them and I could not believe what I heard. That little Berning drove those M1's with no problem at all. If you want a system you will be happy with for many years to come, get the Berning/Supratek combo. To answer your other question, the speakers I am using are Gallo Nucleus Reference. As mentioned by Tubegroover, the Berning has 3 settings to adjust for speaker impedence. On my speakers the Normal setting is the best. Other nice features of the amp are automatic tube biasing. Each time the amp is turned on the tubes bias themselves.

Slowhand, I have contacted Allan Hagan trying to audition a ZH-270 in Chicago. I also contacted David Berning who said that he currently has a 3 month waiting list. I guess I could buy my second system components now while waiting for Mick and Berning to build the components. Interestingly enough there is a zh-270 prototype at auction on this website. I don't know if I am brave enough to go for that unless it goes really cheap. That would be an interesting second system amplifier! Thanks for all the support. This thread has made audio fun again.

I hate to bust in the middle of this thread but it’s been such a joy and education reading it and I think you guys might be able to help me out here. I’m looking for a new pre and really like what I’ve been hearing about Supratek.

Here is my story longwinded though it may be. Hopefully some of you all will be able to provide some guidance. I recently sold my Sun Audio SVC 1000 preamp with an eye toward replacing it with something that had a better accommodation for HT and a remote. (I had a seriously convoluted set-up to run surround through my main system but it was so graceless that I couldn’t stand it any more.) My amps have volume pots on them so my Cary 303 was still useable. After some searching around I decided that I would go the Wadia direct route for starters and see how that went. Let me say that the Wadia 301 blew away the Cary with no effort right out of the box. I have never witnessed such a dramatic improvement - ever. (Shows you what a newbie I am). So now I’m thinking the hell with a preamp, who needs it, this is awesome I got a remote and the best sound I’ve every heard coming from my system. But and there is always a but, by now my wife is screaming that she wants her surround sound back, and I’m thinking I may add a vinly source at some point. But I don’t want to sacrifice the my new found wonder and enjoyment of the Wadia, (Since I’ve got 100’s of CD’s and only 10’s of vinly), so to finally get to the point, I have some questions perhaps you Supratek owners/listeners can help with. Will I lose the air, definition, detail and involvement that I’ve come to love? Have the remote and HT pass through issues been worked out on the Supertek's? Has anyone done any comparisons of the Supratek Syrah and Sonic Frontiers Line 2 or 3 or the BAT 30 or 50’s? I’m currently running the Wadia 301 directly to Sun Audio SV2A3-PE push-pull mono’s with Cabasse Farella 401’s. I would really be grateful for any guidance/insight you could provide.

Thanks

Baranyi,

Not sure if I would go with that prototype unless you could get it cheap. If It were me I would place may order with Mick for the Supratek and probably order the Berning. Once in a great while a Berning shows up for sale, but if you want the latest version, I would order it new. Just my opinion.

Tubegroover: The Supratek Merlot is no ordinary S.E.T amp. It has all the valve virtues of harmonic sweetness and musicality, but it is also super clean and detailed with the most solid bass I have heard, and for a given volume level, beats a Krell KSA100 that I owned.

Besides Mick's unique circuit topology, the Merlot uses the Russian 6C33-CB output tube which has a crystal clear pristine (cut-glass) character. It is no accident that Lamm Industries and BAT also use this valve in their top-of-the-line power amps.

The Berning would appear to be a ground breaker by all accounts, and I would love to hear it one day. Although, that would be a rare circumctance in my neck of the woods (being Perth - Western Australia).

Regards,

Steve M.

Ahhh the 6c33 tube, Joule and Tenor also use that tube, very nice. I would love to hear the amp, you've got me very curious Steve, maybe Mick can send me a pair for evaluation? :)

If its cut from the same cloth as the pre-amps it must be quite special.

Slowhand, the Berning would have to be sold inexpensively for me to take a chance on it. I am about to do what you suggested about placing the order. I got an email from Mick about updating the Cortese to the newest design. He said it would cost about $500 at his cost (he said it was an extensive revision) plus shipping and take 2 to 3 months for the mods to be completed. I wonder if anyone on this thread has heard the latest revision and how far it bests the earlier design. For my budget, the Syrah still seems to be the best bet for me.

Hkvos, If you buy a Supratek, ask Mick if he can make it with TWO of the home-theater by-pass features. This would require a three-way switch vs. the standard two-way switch on units with the home-theater by-pass feature. This would let you connect the Wadia "direct" to your amp through one of the Supratek's by-bypass inputs and the home-theater through the other. You would be able to control volume from the Wadia or HT instead of relying on the Supratek. The Supratek doesn't even need to be on.

Additionally, you could run the analog outputs of the Wadia into the CD input on the Supratek for a different flavor. Sweet!

Hello SteveM. A little off topic here in this thread, however, I am very curious. How did you intergrate the raven with the proac? Is it integrated on the original proac baffle in the box? In phase or reverse?I concur with your rather astute analysis regarding Stuart Tylers BBCesque-like voicing of his speakers.[You have very good ears sir] . I too... just love that proac voicing technique, and quite frankly believe it is the reason why they make such beautiful music.I am also a BIG fan of the original 15 ohm BBC version of the roger Ls3/5a, which was obviously tuned or voiced to sound the way it does. I still have a pair in my kitchen, we have listened to them every day for more than 25 years.Many,many times... visitors and guests to our home have been mesmerized by the sound of the LS 3/5a. And most are usually in utter dis-belief when they realize they are actually listening to these diminutive 25 year old little babies.Has your modded proacs been a success in capturing that BBC like magic???? The Raven's are so incredibly transparent and posses that elusive abilty to resolve that very fine micro-detail, akin to the better E stats out there. I have just never heard them "successfully" married to a full range speaker that I could live with. Hell... You can banish me to a desert island for the rest of my days with any one of the proac response series speakers,my Supratek and any decent tube amp! All of proacs just make for beautiful music!I would be interested to hear your thoughts Steve.

Hello Baranyi. What do you consider very cheap for the Berning? No matter how you slice it, It is certainly one of the finest sounding amplifiers money can buy today, and given its power platform,really very versatile. Do you really care if it is a prototype?

Baranyi, I would concur with Ecclectique concerning the Berning. So far as purchasing new over the prototype, the concern would be that the prototype may have been sitting in a box for years if you are not purchasing from a user. Be CAREFUL of this. I would be concerned about the capacitors which may or may not be in need of replacement which would then add to the cost of the amp and may not make it worth it over new. If the amp is operational and is guaranteed as part of the sale, this would be an option. The price should be commensurate with these factors.

There really isn't much risk if you have 4.5K to spend. It is a versatile amp that can work with many loads and since the amp is in short supply with a healthy demand, it insures the value will be maintained. It sounds to me that you really need to hear it first before committing. You should probably search out a user in your area. There are few products in this hobby that I feel comfortable recommending. With certain considerations in mind the zh270 is definitely one.

Baranyi,

If you are ever in Cincnnati, you are welcome to come over and hear the Berning and the Syrah in my system. By the way guys, I think Mick is using that 6c33 tube in his new 100wpc amps also.

Ecclectique,

I just recieved my 6F6G tubes. WOW, The detail and resolution of these tubes is amazing. Thanks for letting us know about them.

Allan Hagan has given me the number of a guy who used to have a zh-270 but now has a Ziegfried in Chicago. Allan said that there is a family sound and I will get the idea of how zh270 sounds. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Will I get an idea by listening to a different amp? Slowhand, I will take you up and come listen to your system. It would be a fun field trip!

Baranyi,
I am in Indianapolis and have the First Sound/Berning combination. You are welcome to audition if in the area.

Baranyi,

You are welcome to come anytime. Just give me some advance notice so I can make sure I am not out of town when you come.

Baranyi yes you will hear much of what the Zh-270 does by listening to the Siegfried but the Sieg is an SET so it is going to probably be a bit more effortless and harmonically complete. You may decide at that point to find a more efficient speaker, then again I don't think David Berning is still making the Seigfried these days, too much work.

OK I have a question for you tube mavens. I have some JAN Tung-sol 6L6WGBs (GT Shape) and some Sylvania 6L6s (ST shape). The Tung-sols have only 6 pins and the have 7. Both do NOT have a pin 3rd position counterclockwise from the key. All of the rest are present on the Sylvania; the TS also has no pin at first slot clockwise from the key. What gives?

Tubegroover...I have heard David Bernings zh270 driving my aged quad 63s, alittle while ago...My goodness. Mick Maloney and David Berning certainly have alot in common... Design build, direct sales, extraordinary performance and value in their electronics.Wading through the discussion forums the past few months in audiogon, I have gained a new perspective on this thrilling hobby...More so then what i have gotten out of any other source in the past.Finally,I would like to thank all on this thread for their endeavor and expense in finding ways of enhancement...Tubegroover and Slowhand, look into borrowing a shunyata tiapan a.c.cord to try in your Berning amps...

Supratek specialists- help needed. My Syrah appears to have s#$t the bed. EMC-1 cdp and H270 amp works just fine when I run direct input, but get almost no output when I go from the CDP to the Syrah! Just a faint signal at the speakers which does not vary with the pre volume control. All the tubes are lit, and I rolled in another set. Same thing. Nada. Zilch. Was working fine a little while ago, but it did seem rather warmer than I remember. Its almost like a tape monitor switch has been flipped, but this unit does not have a monitor. Any thoughts? I've emailed Mick but no response yet. HELP!!!

Swamp,
Sounds like you have flipped the tape monitor switch, are
you sure that you do not have one? It would be on top, right front corner. I did that once without knowing that I had, same results that you are describing.

Swampwalker: The toggle switch on your right as you face the unit should be set such that its pulled towards yourself. I had the same problem when I first got my unit back in 08/2003. Hope its the same issue with yours. All the best...

Thanks guys, but this unit does NOT have a tape monitor loop. A second set of main outs and an additional input, instead.

Anyone?

Swampwalker - there is a gain attentuator on the back of the syrah that is independent of the volume control, turning it counter-clockwise opens it up. Make sure your input and output are selected properly. Other than that, you should go to Mick.

Swampwalker - This may seem pretty basic but this "problem" sounds like the wrong input is selected via the knob on the right front of the preamp. You could be hearing cross talk between the active input and the currently selected input.

Check that you do not have the RCA cables from your EMC1 plugged into the wrong RCA inputs on the Syrah - that ones you used to have them plugged into. Double-check.

Also, if your Syrah has balanced output, the RCA/XLR switch in the back between the RCA outputs and the XLR outputs could be flipped to the middle or toward the XLR make sure it is toward whatever output you use... RCA or XLR.

If all connections and input selections are correct, try turning off the preamp, unscrewing the DC power cord from both the power supply and the preamp - and then re-attach.

Sometimes if the DC power cord is not connected properly, everything appears to work (tubes light up) but nothing can be heard.

Swampwalker - 6L6 type tubes all have a "missing" 6th pin and some 5881's I've seen have a missing 1st pin as well. Normal.

Thank you everyone. My Syrah does not have a gain attenuator or an RCA/XLR switch. I am in contact with Mick, but so far no cigar. He had me check a dc voltage near the 6L6s which is supposed to be 300v, mine shows 0.16!!! I will double check the dc umbilical.

Bwhite- Do not understand "Check that you do not have the RCA cables from your EMC1 plugged into the wrong RCA inputs on the Syrah - that ones you used to have them plugged into. Double-check. And thanks for the info on the tubes.

Swampwalker - Guess I was trying to say that maybe your input selector switch (front right knob) was on the wrong input. I know this is silly but it happens. Sometimes when we switch cables around we mistakenly put them back on the wrong input.

I rotated the input thru every choice, Bwhite. The only sound I get sounds like "cross talk". Faint but clear presentation of CD, no matter what input I select.

Sorry, I had to ask about the inputs - I realize its a trivial thing.

If the DC power cord is connected properly and not mis-aligned, then perhaps there is a real problem.

I wonder if this could have been caused by tubes which are shorted.

Did you by chance remove the 6L6 tubes and play the Supratek to see if that solved the problem?

In case anyone is interested, Mick walked me thru trouble-shooting it w/a multimeter. Found out that there was no voltage to the pre, but voltage out at the PS (360 vdc, careful there, boys and girls. Traced it to a broken center (hot) wire on the umbilical (I hope). If anyone has an extra, I'd love to borrow it until a new one arrives from down under. If you can help me out, shoot me an email. Of course, I'll pay shipping both ways.

Correction- Now he's got me taking the darn umbilical apart and re-soldering it. Stay tuned boys and girls, reading voltages is one thing, soldering may be a whole different story.

Hi Swampwalker, Actually I may have an umbilical that might work for you. Its from a Chardonnay and its 10 feet long. Its worked on a friends Syrah and it may work on yours.

Some of the umbilicals are slightly different than others depending on how the motorized remote control & board gets its power. This cord should work in your preamp but you may not be able to use the remote (if you have one).

I would be happy to send you the cord but it might be faster to just have yours fixed locally by a technician.

Let me know.

Tubegroover, It turns out that I may be in Florida this weekend with my wife for some R&R. Is there any chance that I could come for a listen to the zh-270 and the Syrah? I guess it depends where in Florida you are!! I would love to hear the combo before ordering them!! Talk about a great long weekend!!

Tube Rolling Update: The replacement set of NOS tubes arrived last friday. After about 20 minutes of listening with the stock tubes (at a set volume level) I decided to go ahead and replace all the tubes all at once just to be sure all the tubes are working and that they light up properly - and they did.

The replacement tubes I receive:

1. 5Z4 Type - 5AR4/GZ34 Mullard standard-base.
2. 6L6 Type - Tung Sol KT66/7581 (matched pair).
3. 6SN7 Type - KenRad VT231 black-glass (matched pair, rectangular plate - not round plates).

First impressions: not much of a difference I'm afraid. I was expecting a more immediate and easily discernable change to the sonic characteristics of my system; but that was not the case at all, not like the time when I replaced a set of unknown Chinese KT88s tubes with Valve Art KT88s on my Air-Tight ATM-2 power amp. The KT88 experience was immediate; it felt as if the power had doubled on my amp. So in comparison, my first real tube rolling experience was a bit of a let down. Also, this was my first experience with “microphonics”. With the Kenrads plugged in, even a mild tap on the preamp knobs will generate loud humms through the speakers.

But now that I’ve had these tubes for a few days in my system, I feel the sound has warmed up appreciably, the music has more “air” and the bass is definitely more defined. I think some of the characteristics discussed throughout this thread are slowly beginning to appear in the system.

Late last night my wife and I returned home from a birthday party and instead of going right off to bed, I decided to play with the system a bit more. So I took out the Kenrads VT231s and put the stock 6SN7s back to see what changes are, if any. I could be wrong as I was quite tired and slightly intoxicated - I thought the stock 6SN7s sounded better with the rest of the NOS tubes in place than the kenrads vt231s. As I said, I’m not a 100% sure however I will check this out tonight as soon as I get home and report back soon.

Jewel I tend to agree that there is less difference between the 6SN7's and 5881 tubes. I've tried 5 different types of these tubes including National Union, Ken Rad, Sylvania, RCA and the stock tubes. There are differences but they tend to be rather subtle. I find the rectifier the same having tried several of the recommended ones. I am currently using a BEL which is a manufactured in India and was a supplier to among others Mullard.

I agree with Fiddler. Where I have noted the most significant changes and improvements in the Syrah's performance is in the regulator position. The 6L6 type seems to open up the dynamics on the pre to a greater degree than the 5881's, greater plate voltage maybe? And for the most significant improvement to date per Ecclectique (thank you David for this great recommendation) you must try the 6F6g. Relatively cheap NOS, less than 50.00 bought me a pair of Brimars and I was stunned at the enhanced dynamics and the bass, oh the bass. Everyone must try this tube. They are readily available and can be purchased used at considerably less than 50.00 for the pair.

Hi Tubegroover: You know what, initially I too was looking for some NOS 6F6g based on Ecclectique's recommendation but the fella (Mike) at www.vacuumtubes.com was telling me that he didn't think 6F6g's could be direct replacements for 6L6 application. I decided not to take the chance - oh well! In fact at the vacuumtubes.com's website they list 6F6gs at $20 new and $10 used without mentioning any brand names etc. But it's cool, I really didn't mind the process as I've been wanting to try this for a while. And really, it's all been quite fun so far. Just the process of tube hunting and then waiting in anticipation was fun & and educational in itself. Now I'm going to set my focus on getting damping material and possibly some DH cones; oh yes and some 6F6g tubes.

Jewel, Glad you're having fun! Finding good 6SN7's is actually quite difficult because most are microphonic in the Syrah. I estimate that 1 out of 10 6SN7's you'll find will be troublesome.