Depending on who I ask a power transformer conditioner can have a good effect on the sound while others claim they inhibit the dynamics of an amp. I don’t have serious power problems as far as I know but I enjoy my sound most of the time. I currently use a Hydra 6 for my entire system except for my amp where I use a Hydra 2. Would it make sense to invest thousands on a power transformer conditioner or would my Hydras be enough by isolating the components from each other. I was waiting for a Keces IQRP 3600 to try but the dealer I was to get it from died from Covid-19 before arranging my Keces to be shipped. I am out $4000 and am not so fast to drop another $4000 on the Keces. Perhaps in the future if it makes sense. I find that not many use transformer conditioners due to the dynamics limitations of the amp. Any help would be appreciated.
If you buy the isolation transformer and find it hums too much open it up and install rubber vibration absorbing feet from parts express between the transformer and the case to help keep it quiet. Setting on an inch thick cork pad from Amazon also helps.
We obviously are dealers, so you can take what I say with a grain of salt…but isolation transformer based power conditioners just plain work! Take out of the equation, the fact that they might improve the sound of your system and let’s just look at the fact that they will absolutely protect your valuable electronics. Here in New York in the summer, we have many many brown outs. These brown outs are milliseconds in length, but can do significant damage to your system because of the massive current that occurs right after the brown out. One summer, we blew out four transformers from a pair of mono block tube amplifiers from two different manufacturers. Since installing an Isolation Transformer six years ago, we have had zero issues. By the way, it also improves bass response, and gives blacker backgrounds.
+1 on isolation transformers...and I greatly appreciate your dealer disclosure which is refreshing these days. These products are indeed great regardless of the brand.
Well it didn't help my speaker hum from my power amp.
Did you try a balanced isolation transformer? My personal experience is that these work much better than straight linear conditioning. Worked very well with my Line Magnetic SET amp.
@three_easy_payments Thanks for the support. I hear most of the users here complaining rightfully so about degradation in dynamics when plugged into a power conditioner. That absolutely does not happen with isolation transformers.
I absolutely hear softening of transients on my 845SET amp with power conditioners, including my BPT 3.5 Signature, a balanced isolation transformer based pc. Further upgraded with Oyaide R1 ac receptacles and Mundorf filtering caps. This most noticed with my Coincident 845 SET amp, high current, high voltage tube amp. I've yet to try my 300b SET and EL34 push pull on BPT. I hear some degradation even when other audio equipment sharing amp circuit. So, dedicated amp circuit, 10AWG, Oyaide R1 for me.
I also love the BPT , and believe a quality balanced transformer based pc is great solution for rest of system. Even prefer to lithium ion battery I've used to power certain equipment. As mentioned in my previous post in thread. The only filter/pc I've found that doesn't soften transients on the 845SET is Furutech Flux-50 NCF
@OP Find out what fuses your Hydra power conditioners use and replace them with the appropriate Synergistic Research Orange fuses. You'll freak. Suddenly, your Hydras become valuable components in your system.
If you search “balanced power” you will learn a lot about how AC power can affect your system. I have posted links a couple of times to a presentation by Garth Powell who was formerly with Furman Power but left to join Audioquest to develop the Niagara series of products. I’m not endorsing his product but simply providing good information about balanced power. I have used a BPT 2.5 Signature for several years and my system is black as can be. The term “power conditioner” is a generic term that really doesn’t mean anything. If you do more research you will have a much better grasp of what is available and their benefits. I have no loss in dynamics with my amp.
I have tried many, and good ones, sold them all. The only one I held on to is a PS Audio P-12 Regenerator for my front-end gear and it does what they say it does. My amp is always into the wall no matter what I was using. The PS can clean up the incoming and output a pefect clean wave form, and as importantly keep the voltage steady at 120V. The days when folks claimed their system sounded better on some days or at nights or weekends, the thought was more noise, well it is also the line voltage changing up and down.
To test this I raised the out voltage of my PS audio unit from steady120V to 121, 122, 123, and with each step raised the sound became less detailed with fat bloated bass, and by 123 volts the dark heavy sound was backlike days gone by in the past, then I lowered it to 119V, 118, 117 volts and the sound became thinner and clinical sounding, same as some days in the past.
This was an education for me, and from that now if a conditioner of any kind cannot regulate the voltage to a steady 120, then I would look for a unit that would. Going back to my front end with out PS unit, sounded OK, but then later on the day it sounded totaly different, I check the out going wall voltage and the reading was up to 123.9 volts and it sounded that was, even a dictated line will not solve a major issue that impacts all systems, day or night. My wall outlet is rarely at 120V, most days 122V and others 119V, highest has been 124V and lowest 118V.
First power conditioner I ever tried was Running Springs Hayley 15 years ago and I’ve used them ever since. I connected 2 McCormack dna rev a mono blocks, pre and sources and I had never heard what air around each instrument in the soundstage was all about until that day. Since then I bought the RUnning Springs Dmitri which resulted in a bigger improvement. I have only used passive conditioners and results were very noticeable. I did buy a Furman 15i for a home theater and tried for the hell of it in my main system with amp in conditioner and then wall, source and pre in conditioner and it sucked the life out the music.
I have tried many, and good ones, sold them all. The only one I held on to is a PS Audio P-12 Regenerator for my front-end gear and it does what they say it does. My amp is always into the wall no matter what I was using. The PS can clean up the incoming and output a pefect clean wave form, and as importantly keep the voltage steady at 120V. The days when folks claimed their system sounded better on some days or at nights or weekends, the thought was more noise, well it is also the line voltage changing up and down.
To test this I raised the out voltage of my PS audio unit from steady120V to 121, 122, 123, and with each step raised the sound became less detailed with fat bloated bass, and by 123 volts the dark heavy sound was backlike days gone by in the past, then I lowered it to 119V, 118, 117 volts and the sound became thinner and clinical sounding, same as some days in the past.
This was an education for me, and from that now if a conditioner of any kind cannot regulate the voltage to a steady 120, then I would look for a unit that would. Going back to my front end with out PS unit, sounded OK, but then later on the day it sounded totaly different, I check the out going wall voltage and the reading was up to 123.9 volts and it sounded that was, even a dictated line will not solve a major issue that impacts all systems, day or night. My wall outlet is rarely at 120V, most days 122V and others 119V, highest has been 124V and lowest 118V.
When AC line voltage coming in the wall varies this is a natural result of voltage draw on a vast complex electrical grid. This is nothing like what happens when you change the voltage on your regenerator. The two are completely different, and in ways that have a huge impact on your comparison.
Power in watts is volts times amps. W=VA.
You cannot create watts from nothing. The power delivered is the power delivered. You can increase volts only by decreasing amps. So even though your panel and wire may support more amps you have limited it by increasing voltage. So of course it sounds worse. But if you decrease voltage then again you have a problem only now it is that you are trying to draw more amps from the circuit. So it sounds worse this way too. There is no free lunch. You are screwed either way.
I never have measured voltage at night. It sounds better then, but not because of voltage.
Paul, the Furman reference series (as well as some of the similar Audioquest Niagara’s ) stores energy to deliver more current than available from the wall for short times for increased transient response. I was putting together a small system with a Hegel H190 and bought a used Furman Reference 15. It does store some energy, though not nearly as much as my Niagara 7000 in my main system , but the very old Furman did help most aspects of the Hegel integrated. Cleaner power can sound less exciting or lower in volume, but adding back some gain fixes it and reveals a more precise presentation with added micro and macro dynamics.
Emailists, I used the elite 15i not the reference 15 series. I demoed a reference 7 in my home, I believe that’s what is was, it had a silver face plate. I thought it was a nice conditioner and improved the music. It was the cheapest in the reference line if memory serves me right. I’ve always run dedicated lines so that may help too. I don’t even want to get into rhodium outlets discussion but those were a big step up also.
This is only true if there are no phase differences between the current and voltage. If there is a phase angle involved (inductive load) things might be quite different.
I will have the Keces IQRP 3600 in 4 days. I will report back after I have it in my system for a bit. I have a feeling I will be pleased. My system sounds better in the late evening early morning so I am hoping that the new Keces will help my system sound better all day.
My system has all digital sources (disk & music server) and when I upgraded from a modest Furman conditioner to the PS Audio P10, I noticed an immediate improvement in the sound quality. When the P15 was introduced, I upgraded again and was pleasantly surprised how the bass tightened up and the sound stage improved a little more.
I can't speak to whether these units would improve analog sources, but I'd say with digital the answer for me was "yes".
The audio companies have invented a component for people to waste their money.
Ha! Mostly true- the PSAudio is the only one that actually seems to work. As I probably mentioned earlier in this thread, Elgar made the best we've seen- and they got out of the conditioner market a long time ago. But their stuff was industrial/commercial and simply had to work. And it does. In addition to keeping the output waveform under 0.5% up to full current capacity, it also regulates line voltage. Pretty neat trick- the only other conditioner mentioned on this thread that can do any of that is the PSAudio.
You have to have active circuitry for the conditioner to really do anything of significance. Otherwise its a glorified power strip.
While most good power conditioners can lower the noise floor, ime only one lowered the noise floor AND added punch, or leading edge attack, to the music when my amp was plugged into it. That was the Richard Gray 1200s. It’s a simple design with two huge inductors and it simply works, ime. No current limitations. No other detriment to the music. It just adds some muscle to the sound. The split second power reserve it provides is an excellent side benefit. Using a Pangea C19 20 A power cable in lieu of the stock power cable took it up another notch for a larger soundstage without question. This is not to say that others can’t do this too, as I haven’t tried every conditioner out there. For bang for the $$, the RG1200 is hard to beat. That’s been MY experience.
The Keces IQRP 3600 improves the sound very much. I highly recommend it. It is beginning to get recognition worldwide according to the internet. I love mine. It is a large unit being 62 pounds and almost as large as my Pass Labs X250.8 amplifier.
I have no idea how much the PS Audio power plants make a system sound better in house XYZ. But one thing is: I know exactly what hey do. And I can totally see how it will isolate a system from dubious power. It’s AC-DC-AC conversion and that process is good enough to isolate US - Canada power grids. That’s a lot more than what I can say about any other vendor.
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