I’ve recently purchased Magico A3 speakers and a VPI Classic 2 SE turntable with an Ortofon Black 2M moving magnet cartridge. I have a Marantz SA 8005 CD/SACD player to play the few (maybe a hundred or so) CD’s in my possession. I’ve mostly vinyl albums and no streaming sources. I’m next going to upgrade my old amp/preamp purchased back in the late 70’s with a new, probably integrated, one and am starting to do some research.
Here’s where I need some tutoring. A lot has changed since the seventies with the advent of digital technology. As well as I need to learn more about amplification components in the high end of audio technology. I keep running across terms I don’t understand. I’ll give you a list and if someone would be kind enough to explain these basics I’d be obliged.
For instance I was reading about the Hegel H360 integrated amp that Magico’s Alon Wolf recommended for their A3’s. The review mentioned they were a Class A/B amp, another person commented Class A’s were better, and a third person said he didn’t care for Class D amps. What do these classes signify?
A second question is about DACs. I generally understand their purpose of the DAC, converting a digital to an analog signal. However my only digital device, the Marantz SA 8005 already has a DAC, ostensibly of good quality. The turntable ’s Ortofon cartridge would not need to play through a DAC, I presume. Would I bypass the CD’s players DAC if I purchase the higher quality Hegel H360 integrated amp?. Or could I find an equivalent integrated amp without an integral DAC?
On the other side of the equation I understand the turntable’s cartridge cannot play through the Hegel without first going through a phono stage. My old Phase Linear 4000 preamp you just plugged the turntables RCA cables into the back of the preamp and you were done. What’s that about? Do they make equivalent integrated amps to the Hegel H360 with integrated phono stages already in place, so I can just plug my turntable in as I’ve been able to do before. The amps don’t seem to be well integrated at all if you have to add a pricey phono stage to make them work, and end up having an extra DAC. That’s just me whining.
Third question is what are monoblocks, how are they used, and what are their advantages to a system? They were used at one of my speaker auditions.
I figured out the answer to what amplifier damping was myself, so I’m sparing you that one, but what does the term impedance mean? I keep coming across that.
Thank goodness I don’t have to figure out the cabling nightmare yet. Thanks for any help.
OFC - Oxygen Free Copper LCC - Linear Crystal Copper
I’ve got to listen to each cables performance "in situ" at home with my own system and listening environment to judge its musicality. Is that close?
Spot on.
Additionally, if auditioning over several sessions, use the same material, in the same order at noted level for each selection. Ensure that the system is in the same state. Replug ALL connectors. Choose a CD that is generally representative, power the system and play it whilst out of the room. Don't audition when overly tired, aggravated, etc. The task should be approached as a pleasure not a chore.
If doing multiple evals and something sounds out in left field, immediately set it aside and revisit. It's often a good idea in long sessions to take breaks, and reset the reference with a listen to the current standard.
Whilst this might seem a bit onerous, unless you've done it extensively and are well adept at mental cataloging, it's too easy to get fooled.
Be wary of 'seductive sirens' that become tiresome.
All this might not be necessary when comparing cables, or anything else for that matter. If the cables are fully burned in I usually need a minute at most to hear everything there is to hear. Very familiar and reasonably well-recorded material, of course. If you need a lot of time to compare - stop comparing and choose the least expensive cable. I have six recordings, four analog and two digital, that I use. One minute each with each cable. Simple enough.
Ieales, thanks for the definitions, I couldn't come up with the LCC on Google on my own.
I'll try to do auditions when I'm not overly tired or aggravated. although those two conditions are usually present only when I'm sound asleep. You've certainly got this down to science and Ill heed your warnings to not get fooled by overly bright cables like the Nordosts might be. Thanks for the advice.
"Back in the 80’s, we found that dielectric and geometry trumped metallurgy..."
You might have mentioned earlier and I missed it but does above mean you are in some way associated with cable research/manufacturing/etc.? Whatever it is, it gives you at least thirty years of experience, it seems.
Jafant, I'll see if I can find the article you read on the Luxman cables. Do you have a link to it? You would think they'd be designed to be a good match with their own amps. I'll put them on my short list if they're not cost prohibitive. Thanks for the suggestion.
Inna, I hope so. Did your Neptunes jump out at you like that?
I rarely upgrade but when I do I jump to a much higher level. I am a relatively poor man and can't afford $1k for just a little bit better. Another such jump was with older Purist Audio Dominus power cord.
I mentioned Luxman reference cables in this thread and said that they were very expensive. I know where to get them cheaper from the UK but still very expensive.
glupson, my audiophile story is here http://ielogical.com/Audio/. In truth, it goes back to my Dad's Bogen in the 50's
My pals and I first discovered that cables don't sound the same by accident in the early 70's when listening to one another's amps at our various houses. Then we built interconnects from every kind of wire we could find.
When I was a recording engineer, I consulted for Monster Pro, Yamaha, Ibanez. Monster get a bad rap, but Noel Lee had some of the best ears around and a fierce intellect.
In the 80's, biggies like Hitachi were getting their toe wet and made the aforementioned cables with different metal, dielectric and geometry. Monster and others were also investigating same.
Later I went on to design and build electronics for the recording and film industries.
Glupson, .Thanks for the Luxman cable link. I’ll be sticking with zip cord at that price point. Maybe they’ll show up used at a reasonable cost.
Inna, I do recall that someone (you) had mentioned the Luxman’s,
Another general question for you all: I was advised by one manufacturer’s rep that spades made better connections than banana plugs. Another poster mentionded he really had to crank down on his spade lugs to make them work correctly without adding distortion. Any thoughts on one versus the other? Are they pretty much the same, or is there some difference you’re aware of. I’d have to make a choice if ordering new.
You might want to get this power cord, it will be a significant upgrade to Luxman stock. If it is not enough you can put it on your cd player, if it is not enough for your player I'll buy it from you for $99. I didn't try this model, I have their least expensive and top of the line models, that I currently use. The company is no more. Solid engineering, neutral enough sound, works well on both analog and digital If this length is enough for you, of course. https://www.usedcable.com/custom-power-cord-company-model-11-15-amp-iec-4ft-1-2m-power-cables.html
People tend to prefer spades as "audiophile" for some reason. I am yet to meet a screw that does not get unscrewed over time so I would constantly be thinking it is loose back there and needs to be screwed tighter. Sticking it in and leaving seems easier. Well, all of this may come across as a bad joke, but I am actually talking about speaker wires.
Also, no experience on my part, I read that some amplifiers do not take some spades. Spades are too big or amplifier connectors too crowded, something like that. Luxman does have a generous space back there and, if I remember correctly, they even brag in their promo material what size of spades it can take. I guess they would not be mentioning it if it were not more than others.
People often, me included, mention wire hangers and I wonder has anyone ever actually tried that. I do not have any but, once I lay my hands on a few, I may give it a try. Is there anything irreversible that could happen to amplifier or speakers?
====================================== WARNING NOTE: Any disc that has been reissued / remastered is as likely as not to be inferior to the original. Friends and I have sent our various versions around without comments and then compared notes. Some of remasters are terrible. ======================================
RE coat hangers - we used solid 10ga THHN vs Monster Pro at AES. Half the listeners could not tell. Some could tell better than 85% of the time. Coat hangers have a different dielectric than THHN, so probably sound different and they’re a bitch to strip ;-)
RE Spades - Unless binding posts are cinched down with a nut driver, they will loosen. That being said, if gear swapping banana’s are quicker. There are locking bananas, but they have a smaller contact area. ALL connectors sound different. The truly commitable solder everything.
RE Luxman speaker cable - shame on them. Parallel conductors increase inductance. Shame on them, they should be twisted. >:0
@geoffkait Some Monster knockers couldn’t tell the difference between cables, tube or solid state amps or absolute polarity. Were you at AES in LA? ~<:-P
@geoffkait Some Monster knockers couldn’t tell the difference between cables, tube or solid state amps or absolute polarity. Were you at AES in LA? ~<:-P
Been to shows as exhibitor many times. In some of the best systems ever assembled my mankind. My impression is people generally have no idea what the heck they’re listening to. And even if they do, that ceases after about an hour of having their ears assaulted by the horrible sound. I’ve never seen so many dazed and confused people at one time. And they were the industry folks. Not to mention most rooms at shows sound pretty terrible anyway, especially Day One, while folks have some chance of hearing something. I don’t believe AES has any real audiophile cred, nor did they ever. Maybe it’s just me. 😳 I wasn’t at AES in LA but I was at the Coke Convention back in 1965. All in favor of static displays, say aye. Aye!
Apparently you'll need 4. Just don't let them short. Colored plastic coated ones sound best, or not depending upon which cognitive bias you may be subject to.
My copy of Don Juan De Marco is the original one from whenever the movie came out. I have not heard it almost since then and was surprised to find out there is another person in the world who bought it, too. What is your excuse? I did play it last night and, in fact, enjoyed it. Mostly because of nostalgic value, memories etc.
Is there any way to describe "fast sound" a little better? I get details, I am trying to get focus, but "fast sound" is simply escaping me. I see that written every now and then and this is the first time I asked. Sorry.
Bryan was a friend, my missus worked with Michael Kamen on some films, we liked the movie, "Have you ever Really Loved A Woman?" is a great song, the London Met Orchestra is always good, Bob Clearmountain is a great mixer, I admired the work of many of the musicians, etc.
I still get chills when Bryan sings "And when you can see your unborn children in her eyes"
I liked the movie, thought the song was cute, but was unaware of other details. It might have been because of the chills at that time as I do remember eyes. Children were not close to the list of desires, though.I will listen more carefully next time. Now I really wonder how many copies they sold.
Audio Advisor makes up their own Audioquest Rocket 88 cables, one of those Magico recommended, by putting their own terminations on lengths of Rocket 88 cable off a spool. They then sell them at 51% off list. Does that sound legit to anybody, or no? When I called they said had their own in house "terminator" who used crimped connectors doing this.
Ieales, thanks for the thoughts on the spade connectors. I would think they would be easier to keep clean too. I’m not sure how you’d be able keep the female side of a banana connector . I read you do have to clean the surfaces of the connectors periodically. I read the Magico A’3 manual last night and they said to only hand tighten spade connectors, rather than the easy nut driver solution for keeping them secured. Nothings easy it seems.
Thomas, I have been looking up used cables on the Cable Co site. Did they charge you any fee for loaners? I read they charge 5% of total cable cost for use of their "Cable Library" loaners. I’ll add Analysis Plus to my list.
You can’t go wrong with Elvis. My wife actually heard the young Elvis live in Seattle when she was just a kid. She said you could hardly hear him for the all the girls screaming.
As Arte Johnson said, "Very Interesting... But Stupid" IMO, AudioQuest plays way too much BuzzWordBingo.
No doubt they will have a ’sound’ and could be very similar to Kimber 8PR which are 1/3 the money at NeedleDoctor. No affiliation. https://tinyurl.com/y7g4rkls
Thomas, thanks for the info on The Cable Company's loaner policy.
Jafant, will do
Any thoughts on whether those home brewed Audioquest Rocket 88's from Audio Advisor might be the same quality as the regular priced ones that come from Audioquest with factory installed spades. 51% off provides a temptation, but not if you think Audio Advisor putting on the spades themselves isn't kosher. What do yo think? I really don't want to get hustled.
Here’s another question for anybody whose been reading ,or new to this thread. If you had a budget of $1000 for speaker cables, what would you consider buying new around that price point? Also what would you consider getting used, if it is not too rarely available, and can found around that same price?
My speakers are Magico A3’s and the integrated amp a Luxman 507uX Mark II. Thanks for any suggestions. Maybe that price point may narrow down the field and help keep my head from spinning. Thanks,
"Any thoughts on whether those home brewed Audioquest Rocket 88’s from Audio Advisor might be the same quality as the regular priced ones that come from Audioquest with factory installed spades."
How hard can it be to mount spades? I suspect that Audioquest has someone who does that work wherever their product is finished while Audio Advisor has a different guy doing it in his kitchen, sort of. Could the process really be that much different? It may be different spades, of course, and then the importance will depend on what side of the "believer vs. non-believer" argument you and up falling. I would not be surprised if "full Audioquest" cables get a little more marketing/treatment but, again, importance of it will depend where you want to draw the line of promised improvement. My advice, again, hide the PIN to your bank account once you start spending too much time thinking of this. Hide it from yourself, I mean,
Really good cables are never sold in bulk. I would not buy this Audioquest at any price. Best $1000 cables for your system can be Purist Audio Museus new. This should take you half way.
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