Please tutor me on some integrated amp basics.

Ask Magico what they use for wiring in their speakers. This doesn't mean you better use the same but it is interesting. I would steer clear of Jeans, that's budget brand. Higher end MIT are hit or miss cables, no way to be sure in advance.

By the way, I wrote a lengthy post about record cleaning in your speakers road trip thread.

Mike, these won't bankrupt you, and will set a standard for any high-priced offerings you care to audition later.https://silversonic.com/products/speaker-cables/q-10-signature/

Unless you have long runs of speaker cable Bluejeans top cable is 10 AWG and is really good. I don't mind budget cable as long it provides same value which is the optimal thing to do anyway.  

Inna,I will be contacting again the Magico rep who does their demos at shows to find out what cables they use there. I'd only use Bluejeans as an interim measure before investing in expensive cables and interconnects.  

I did read your post on record cleaning on my other thread. I did reply to it and the previous poster's, but must have neglected to hit the green "Post Your Response" button. I just went ahead and retyped my reply there. 

Builder, thanks for the recommend on the Silversonics. I'll look them up. I do have to figure what a good baseline standard should be. 

Mike

Geek,, I quite likely will be finding out how good they are, until I find out more about,or purchase, some of the big (i.e, expensive) boys.. Hopefully they’ll be a pleasant surprise.

Mike

Geoff, I’d appreciate if you didn’t head my thread off in a related, but different direction, while I’m trying to figure this out with your and other’s valued advice. Are there any $1000+ cables you’d consider to be a sure bet and should be on my short list? Preferably ones by not too esoteric a manufacturer with a a decent track record? I read your thoughts on cryogenic treatment of cables, and had read some others who passed this off as gimmickry. Not to focus on cryogenics, I’m curious what aspects of cable design you’d recommend I should avoid as gimmicks and what might be legitimate design factors to look for. I really have no way of knowing what’s legitimate design or manufacturing practices, and what’s not, and opinions on the internet are all over the place. I am trying to learn though, best I can by asking questions. Thanks for your advice,

>>>Almost all high end cable manufacturers cryo their cables, otherwise they could not compete in the high end marketplace. It’s not a gimmick. I was one of the very first to explore cryogenics for audio applications twenty years ago. Of those companies with a range of prices for cables, including modest cost cables, I’d suggest Audioquest, Shunyata, Anti Cables and other progressive cable companies. Most enlightened cable companies control directionality during the manufacturing process. Good luck in your quest.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Concepts

Mike, PLEASE read Galen Gareis' articles on PSAudio. These articles are as good a primer as you're likely to find. Although Gareis works for Belden, he's not grinding their axe.

https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-time-is-of-the-essence-part-1/
https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-time-is-of-the-essence-part-2/
https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-time-is-of-the-essence-part-3/
https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-xlr-interconnect-design/
https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-speaker-cable-design-part-1/
https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-speaker-cable-design-part-2/

6 9's of the verbiage on some cable manufacturer's sites is only suitable for lining birdcages. From an engineering perspective, many cables are akin to holy jeans: Fashion Over Function

Cables [and connectors] are part of the circuit that connects amplifier to loudspeaker.

Different amplifier, different cable, different speaker ALL SOUND DIFFERENT! Add in source and room distortions and the probability of predicting performance is VANISHINGLY SMALL!

IMO, many manufacturers are preying on the ignorance and insecurity of a well-heeled market. Nearly 30 years ago Ken Kantor opined "Contribution pricing is useful when production runs are smaller, and sales lower. In this scenario, materials cost is not the driving factor. Rather, the manufacturer uses their sales level and overhead to determine how much a product has to sell for to be worth making. This is an iterative process, as sales volume and price are interrelated."

Since you mentioned Nordost, their speaker cables are distinctive and eye-catching. From an electrical perspective, not too brilliant as they maximize rather than minimize inductance, the last thing most engineers would want in a speaker cable. They do have a 'sound' and the listener is told that it is an improvement, which it may very well be with the system on demo. The probability of the same improvement on a likely very different system is vanishing small, hence "They need [5 - 50 - 500] hours to burn in." Balderdash!

Excellent name dropping of people nobody’s ever heard of. 😬

How did the thread with this title end up being a discussion about cables? OP asked many questions and explicitly said he was not dealing with cables (yet).

There are cable threads out there where anything goes. Well, if OP does not mind it here...

We can lay that right at Costco Emoji’s door, I suspect.

Ieales, I’ll read the articles you provided links too. Thanks. Appreciate the info on the Nordost’s. I had just finished reading a review from Stereophile, I think, where the author said their Valhalla’s were the greatest cables he’d ever reviewed. Apparently maybe not. Hopefully the reading you recommended will help educate me a bit better before i waste a wad of cash.

Geoffkait, thank you for recommending those companies. I’ll be sure to check them out and appreciate your advice.

I must also ask you to please not be rude or argumentative on my thread. That last comment to ieales came across as exactly that, whether intentionally or not, and gets the thread off track. This thread is an attempt for me to both learn about and enjoy my hobby, so I’d appreciate it being free of acrimony, even if you are in disagreement with someone’s thoughts. Would that be okay? I welcome your opinions about cable technologies as you know way more about it than I, but give me a break here.

Glupson, I think the "yet" has dawned. Especially since I did purchase and pick up my new integrated amp Wednesday. Do you think I should move this over to the cables forum somehow now? It probably belongs there at this point. 

Mike

the Magico rep should be able to hook you up with a local dealer to demo the A3s with cables and  your setup and if the dealer dose not have your stuff they should let you bring your setup in
to get back to the integrated amps I had a chance to hear the Aesthetix Mamis Amazing !!! probably my next up grade
remember have fun and enjoy the journey   

Tom, I wish I wasn’t five hours away in traffic from the closest Magico dealer. I do think the local audio stores have a limited supply of cables that I may be able to cajole them into lending for demo purposes. That is after my Magico’s arrive in February. Good advice to have fun with this. I do enjoy doing the research and communicating with you all, not to mention coming home with new toys.

I’ve never heard of the Aesthetix Mimas. I’ll look them up. Good luck with that.

Mike

skyscraper,

It is probably better that you keep the discussion about cables you need here and take a peek at other cable threads from time to time. Here you have a thread about, more or less, building your system and someone may come and give real advice or opinion with names and models they suggest. Cable threads are less useful in that way. They are more about arguing theory vs. practice but nothing practically useful. They are interesting in their own way but nothing you could use at the stage you seem to be at, I think. They get quite energetic at times. Approach at your own risk.

skyscraper,

I just realized you are the OP from the DC speaker road trip. I will go back to that thread to see how it went. The spoiler is that now I know what speakers you got.

Aesthetix is a US company located in California they make some great equipment  hybrid amps preamps and now the new MAMIS integrated amp heres the web site  www.aesthetix.net  

I guess that I can count myself lucky only 20 minutes from         Audio connection one of the best dealers in the US

Glupson, I have read a few of the threads on the cable forum and asked a couple questions on one of them that is quite vitriolic.

Usually you can get an idea of what the better brands are on most audio products through reviews and their names being mentioned, or praised with some frequency on various forums, Audiogon being a better one for that. I’ve yet to find a pattern with cable recommendations yet.

There seems to be a wide range of opinions and an even greater diversity of manufacturers. With speakers, and with amps it was relatively easy to figure out the front runners and whittle the list down to size prior to demoing. Maybe that’s in part due to having prior experience with components. No such luck so far with cables. Maybe I just haven’t read enough yet or had any practical experience with various grades of cable to venture a guess, like I’ve had with speakers, amps, turntables and to a lesser degree CD players.

I used to subscribe to audio mags like Hii-Fidelity, Stereo Review and Audio and I don’t recall any reviews on cables other than the Monster Cables when they came out. As an aside, I always thought a pairing of Monster Cables and Ampzilla would have been poetic. So this cable arena is all new to me, has a certain gladiatorial element and prices startling for someone who’s never considered anything but zip cord for wiring components. Have you mentioned what cables you use? Just curious. I’ve written down so many brands I’ve lost track of who's recommended what.


Tomstruck, you’re lucky you have Audio Connection so close. You should mention to them they should set up shop in Roanoke. I’ll look at your link on the Aesthetics. I couldn’t find too much earlier except for one short positive review.

Mike

Speaker cables are relatively easy to choose after you have chosen interconnects. Usually - same brand, though not necessarily the same model. Another element is knowing your speakers, strong and weak points. If you put Nordost cables on your Magico almost certainly they will sound thin and not quite natural. Nordost exaggerates upper frequencies register, they are not in my view balanced cables. Nor are they in high esteem among audiophiles.
There are so many cable brands because it's easy to make money out of it, not the last thing knowing that 99% of people are not going to compare even a few brands let alone many. I didn't mention many other brands because it would've created even more confusion and because some of those brands, their models worth considering, are too expensive. Ask your Luxman dealer about his recommendation, make your sound and music preferences known to him.
I learned about Purist from some very knowledgeable and experienced Audiogon members, none of them presently participates. A few brands were most popular - Purist Audio, Kubala Sosna, Echole, Jorma, sometimes best Kimber and Audioquest, Shunyata power cords only. Those members have $200k - $500k all analog systems and could afford almost anything. Yes, a few had top of the line MIT and Transparent cables that worked very well in their particular applications.

There are so many cable brands because it's easy to make money out of it

Bingo!

Reading some of the FAQ, one has to wonder. Claims are made for unaltered transmission, but anyone can calculate the EQ effect of the sundry designs into various loads.

Speaking of Bingo, many manufacturers play Buzz Word Bingo.

e.g. products are Cryomag'd, but no specifics as to how that improves audio performance. Cryogenic rolling decreases electrical conductivity.

Beryllium Copper is touted. It's harder but only conducts about 15-30% as well as copper. Its hardness may be a detriment when mating connectors as any high points will reduce contact area, further reducing current carrying capacity.

Gold plating is referenced, but no mention is made of the process. Is it nickel plated or acid washed? Each has different sonics. Semi-conductors are made from metal to metal junctions.

Beryllium Copper is used as a spring material, e.g. fuse clips, but can suffer deplating when flexed. Not a great idea on a banana plug.

Look at Wireworld and Audio Sensibility.

Duckworp, my apologies, but somehow when re-reading this thread this morning, I noticed, and think I missed replying to your long and thoughtful post.

I will be setting up my new system first with some more basic cable as you suggest. Your outline of how to proceed seems quite sensible to me. I will be concentrating on speaker cable first as you also suggest. The only exception will be acquiring the relatively inexpensive VPI manufactured turntable interconnect as my turntable is a VPI Classic similarly wired. I’ll look into the Townsend brand you recommend as well.

I appreciate you thinking and saying the Luxman will match well with the Magico’s. I surely hope so. The Luxman rep that told me they use Magico A3’s to demo their amps at shows encouraged me to think they may be well matched too.

Austinbob, sorry, I think I missed replying to your post too, which followed directly after Duckworp’s. I wish I had that room correction program you have with your Lyngdorf, especially if it works as well as the reviewers say. I seriously considered the Lyngdorf and a couple others for that alone.

Mike

Twoleftears. I've added Wireworld  and Audio Sensibility to my long list. 

Ieales, thanks for pointing out a few touted, but questionable cable construction attributes. Helps sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Mike. 

skyscraper,

You might have noticed that, when it comes to cables, there are two large groups.

One considers cables as a Heaven's answer to, more or less, everything although, once you read their reports, they are really using them as tone controls. It may not be that bad of an idea for those who do not own your amplifier. Your set-up is simpler to manage, though.

Second group does not believe in absolutely anything that has anything to do with cables. They barely accept that cables transmit signal, it seems, and stop short of claiming that wire hangers are just fine.

These two groups are two parallel worlds that, on occasions, throw all the verbal ammunition they have at each other. Not much to learn there. You will read some of the statements in disbelief.

You seem to be the kind that will end up in the third, probably the smallest, group which believes there may be something to cables but does not believe they are all that matters and leaves mind open that either group may actually have some point. We will see where you settle.

I am in that third group, probably because I do not have particular enjoyment constantly chasing some sound, etc. My balanced (XLR)interconnects are Shunyata Venom. They are the cheapest that Shunyata makes. The main reason for choosing them was that they look like they mean business while being the least expensive out there. They replaced some much cheaper ($15-20) cables. I have had them for months so, if the burn-in actually exists, it should be settled. The difference in sound is about none. If Spanish Inquisition knocked on my door and I really had to pick one, I would probably have to admit that cheaper ones are slightly better. Someone might say that it depends on matching, but someone else may say it is not the case.

My speaker cables are Monster from 1994 ($30 for more length than I have ever needed). I have never directly compared them to anything else so I cannot comment much. Still, they must be transmitting the signal as I have noticed differences when changing any other component. I am following these threads to get some idea and google whatever people mention until I get to some cable that fulfills my criteria (pleasing to the eye, available in the length I need, and works/transmits signal). No luck so far although Zavfino cables came close. They even say they offer different lengths but it is not that clear how to order it.

It may not matter to you, but it is worth mentioning that some of the more expensive cables are not that flexible. It may become a bit of a practical issue, in case you have some angles or tighter places to navigate them through. Luckily, many seem to be so thin that I wonder where the wire actually is.

skyscraper,

You bought Magicos because you liked their sound there. Why don't you ask what cables they used during your demo? If cables actually do make a difference, those are the cables you want. If they are within your price range, it is the end of the cable road for you and you can consider yourself lucky.

There is yet another group. People who consider cables components, and they are components, and have good enough hearing.
Just because Magico shows with certain cables does not necessarily mean that they will be best for any application. Besides, it's business, and it has many aspects.

True, some think of cables as components, which they, just like anything in the signal path, practically are. Still, it comes to those who believe they can achieve some impact with them as opposed to the first group who thinks that cables are just, more or less, inert wire. Considering cables as components is much better description of the second group I mentioned. I would not dismiss hearing of people in any of the groups just because they do not agree with what I hear.

My suggestion for skyscraper’s cables was not about what Magico demos speakers with, but rather what he heard the speakers he liked with. The test was done and it would be the simplest way to get as close as he wanted to what he liked. After a long search, and it seems it would be an inconvenient one for him given the location, he may find something even better but he said he has only 40 years to accomplish it so time is also of concern when looking for the best cable for his situation. Following all the instructions from the cable experts, he would need a few months of burn-in, or additional expense of burn-in equipment, for each cable and he would need to try many. By the time he tries cable # 106, memory of cable #66 will be long gone.

 Of course, playing with these things is valuable, too. What else would a man spend his energy on than searching for the Holy Grail of cables for the rest of his life. And just when he finds it, a few years from now, capacitors in his amplifier will change just slightly so and match from Heaven will not be match from Heaven anymore.

For the googlth time, source to speakers in a room is a system.

Using the same cables as a store demo is no guarantee.

For example, if every component on demo is laid back, the cables may be ear-bleeders in another system with still great, but more aggressive components.

But in Mike's case he has VPI TT, 8005 CD, Luxman Int Amp & A3s so speaker cable is the wild card.

He may find that the ROI for 1-2-3 K$ in speaker cables is very poor relative to whatever he has lying around.

ieales

Thank You for posting the information via Galen.  Happy Listening!

Yes, it is really a wild card and on him to decide how far he wants to go with it. There are many approaches and none may be superior to the other one. I have a hard time believing that with his set up, which is quite a fine one, cables would be a dealbreaker of any sort. Everything in the chain seems to be really good.

I suspect that both Magico and Luxman demo with quite expensive cables, Luxman makes very expensive reference interconnect and speaker cables, by the way.
I don't think Mike wants to go to a great length to choose cables, that's why I didn't suggest complicated approaches.
He also says that the power in his area is bad and unstable. This may have nothing to do with the choice of speaker cables but one should do something about it. I think, in the beginning he underestimated a little the cost and effort that are involved in achieving good sound.
Yes, very wrong cables can screw up the sound big time, regardless of how good active components are.

I also did not get the feeling he wanted to go to a great length about cables so I suggested a shortcut, provided it is within his budget.

If the power is really unstable, that may be a problem, too. Now how unstable is unstable enough to do something about it is on someone else to chime in. Someone other than power conditioner manufacturer, that is.

Everything can count in the end, but for someone just wanting to listen to music in decent quality, it is hard to miss it completely with a collection of good components. He is certainly on the right track.

I am not sure if speaker manufacturers have different approaches to cables but, for whatever it is worth, Revel mentions it in instruction manual in very simple terms. They give way more details about speaker placement than wire. Resistance/gauge and that is all.

"Use high-quality loudspeaker cable with a maximum total loop resistance of 0.07 ohms or less for each wire run. Refer to the table below to determine the appropriate wire gauge for your installation.

NOTE: High loop resistances that exceed 0.07 ohms (for each wire run) will cause the loudspeaker’s filter network to be misterminated, resulting in considerable degradation of sound quality."

Power around here is both unstable and very dirty, so I use PS Audio regenerator for all components, including 120 Watt/ch integrated. Dynamics is not compromised, in fact better than straight to the wall.
This integrated, Redgum RGi120, is also quite high current but not at all like big amps, of course.

Gentleman, nice to read the back and forth on cables since my last post from three of my favorite people on this site.

I’ve been in touch with both Magico and Luxman about cables. Magico says they’re using Audioquest cables at their current show in Canada to demos their A3’s. Perhaps they’re cryogenically treated and well suited to cold climates. Magic said the also use Nordost, MIT and Transparent cables at other shows and in their factory, Luxmans rep said he liked Audioquest and Nordost. The dealer who sold me the Luxman integrated said he recommended MIT’s among cables he didn’t carry at his store for Luxman’s.

Interestingly. Magico said they are currently demoing their A3’s with a Luxman 509x amp, only one step up from my 597ux Mark II. Wish I could have afforded it. Luxman independently informed me they are demoing their 509x with the Magico’s. Either they’ve formed an unholy cabal, or I’ve gotten lucky with my research and choices.

A couple of you on site have mentioned the Nordost’s are too bright, so I’ll rule them out, The Audioquest’s are available locally in Roanoke so maybe I can wrangle a demo. I also read the MIT’s are good only at their highest priced models, and I’ve read only positive things about the Transparent cables. The dealer who sold me the Luxman 507 also recommended the MIT’s among brands he didn’t carry at his store. So I can add at least three possible brands to my short list, straight from the horse’s mouth so to speak. Audioquest’s are the only ones I’ve ever heard demoed, actually when I first heard about expensive cables and questioned the local dealer if they were any better than zip cord. They were.

Next up is to look up prices, new and used, for them along with a couple others on my short list that you’ve recommended.

Glupson, you’re right about the two camps from what I’ve read so far. Some of those in either camp get so excited about wires you’d think they’re ready for a fist fight. Get a life instead is my recommendation. You mentioned you have Shunyata Venoms. Where do they come up with these names is what I’d like to know? I looked up the Audioquests to get a price and they listed twenty varieties of speaker wire alone, most with ridiculous names too. How many variations of wire can there be that one company can come up with?

I will keep in mind to look at each wires flexablity as they will have to bend a few times on the way to the speaker Good advice. I added your Zavfinos to the ever expanding long list. They might get lost in the shuffle though. I posted them at #106 so I wouldn’t be forgetting them.

You’re right, I don’t want to spend the rest of my life messing with this. I’m pretty content with a "semi-logical approach" as you say. I’m enjoying learning about cables now, but soon as I get some, that’s the end of it until the next go round in 2058. I expect I’ll have to call that one in. You also have to consider too, you can spend so much money on this stuff you couldn’t afford records or CD’s to listen to afterwards.

Appreciate your encouragement, sensible approach to cabling and making me laugh. Semi-logical, huh? You didn’t even intend that one.

Inna please don’t tell me there’s an even more complicated approach to choosing cables. I am going to look into that esoteric brand you mentioned, but couldn’t recall the name. It’s posted way higher on my list than Glupson’s Zavfinos in any event. He didn’t even like them well enough to purchase them, while you did invest in the model that you recommended.

Power cords, transformers and line conditioners are up next for research.

Ieales, If I find out that expensive cables purchased don’t sound significantly better than Bluejeans or Beldens I will be quite perturbed to say the least. Some of these wires are so expensive its ungodly. I mean I didn’t work and save my whole life to end up with ten feet of wire as the reward.

Anybody with any opinions (except Glupson) on the Audioquest, Transparent, MIT or other lines just mentioned, please chime in with your thoughts or experience with them. I’ll be carefully considering what you have to say before making a purchase. Thanks so much,

Mike

skyscraper,

Make sure you let us know once you make your choice. As things are now, I may follow your pick and..."I'll have what he is having". I am not kidding at all. And the sound? What the heck, it will be just fine for the Internet radio.

I will keep mum about the cables I have not heard, which is pretty much all of them. It is the concept I do talk about.

Unexpected names are part of the marketing. That is the easy part. However, once you start reading about suggestions what else you should spend money on to improve the sound, brace for impact and keep the PIN for your bank account safely with someone else. Cables are bread and butter stuff and, comparatively, not even that expensive.

Mike, that esoteric brand is Purist Audio Design, and the model I recommended was Neptune. I also said that lower model Poseidon should be excellent but that I had no experience with it.
Not only did I bought Neptune interconnects, I have no intention of replacing them in a foreseeable future since they work so well with both analog and digital.
No personal experience with Audioquest, MIT or Transparent. I do think though, from what I read, that one would have to go rather high in their line. But maybe this has changed, I don't know, on average cables are getting better, if you are lucky today you can get $3000 sound of the past for $1000 or so. Don't buy old used cables unless you know exactly what you are doing. Yes, there are old cables that are still very competitive. One of them I use, of course, as speaker cables - 20 years old Purist Audio Colossus fluid.

One of the brands mentioned a couple of posts earlier (Audio Sensitivity) has nice diagrams of their cables with labels for each part. Does anyone know what is special about "unbleached pure cotton" when placed in an audio cable? Is there a theory behind that? I am afraid to ask on one of the cable threads, I would like to get to #106, too.

Jones4music, that was good, and illustrates just why audiophiles shouldn’t be allowed out of the house, much less fishing. I added Nordost Odin’s to my want list though.

Glupson, you’re telling me. Since I joined this site I been told of so many things I never heard of, that I’ve got to have, which cost thousands, my head’s spinning. Once I get everything set up in February, hopefully, you’re more than welcome to come down and take a listen. However if my system ends up sounding crappy I’ll warn you ahead of time so you don’t have to make the same mistakes. According to some here if I skimp on cables that will be the case. That’s pushing me to spend good money on cables. I figure I’ve got about a 50-50 chance this might all come together. If I spend a few thousand more it get down to 60-40.

Inna, why would you recommend against purchasing used cables or is it only quite old ones that present concerns? Is there something that goes wrong with them, or do they deteriorate somehow over time? Would some of the used cables offered by The Cable Company fall into that category or do you think they screen junk out? I was thinking of possibly buying used through them if new prices were out of sight. That is, when I finally figure out which to purchase. There is zero chance I know what I’m doing, if there’’s something I should know about buying used.

Sorry I couldn’t remember your Purist Audio Design Neptune’s name, but I have a list of over fifty suggestions now I’m trying to make sense out of and find reviews for.  Gets kind of overwhelming. Are you recommending the Neptunes you have only as interconnects, or as speaker cables also?

Mike

Mike,
No, I meant only very old cables and not because they deteriorate except maybe a little for connectors. Cable technology advanced in the last, say, ten years, including metallurgy. Whatever else they do it is first of all the conductors themselves, the metal. Single Crystal Copper ( SCC ) is usually excellent when done right. Single Crystal Silver too.
I have not heard Neptune speaker cables, only interconnects. In my experience if interconnects are good, speaker cables of the same line will be good. Not necessarily the other way around.
I had to buy both Purist Audio Neptune and Tchernov Audio Reference MK II interconnects new because they were never available used. No-one is selling them !
Eventually I will upgrade my old Purist Colossus speaker cables to Purist Neptune, when I upgrade my speakers.

Another question if you buy used, are you prepared to possibly lose some money if you buy, don't like them and have to sell them ? Also, both buying and selling 3 meter long used speaker cables might be difficult, most popular length is 2.0-2.5 meters, I guess. You want speaker cables as short as possible, though I think that 0.5 meters difference is non-issue unless your hearing is incredible.

Inna, I’l have to measure the cable length more carefully once I get my built in shelves in for the turntable, CD player and amp done. I’m moving the shelves to the middle of the room to keep these cables to the shortest length possible. I was thinking a little extra cable would be good to be able to move the speaker around a little for optimizing room placement. I could probably do that with inexpensive cables first I suppose, then know exactly how much I’ll need when ordering the good stuff.

I’m not prepared to lose any money on reselling cables, so I have to make a good decision the first time out. With new, I bet I could return them. I don’t know how The Cable Company handles returns with used. You make a good point. I’ll find out their policy. I’ll probably have to listen to a few brands if possible to have a reasonable base for comparison, since my only experience with high end cables is listening to one set of Audioquest cables once. I wasn’t paying much attention to the cable during the Magico A3’s demos although I did ask. I’ll have to check my notes from the demos.

Jimmy, you’re welcome. I'm learning a lot here too.

Mike

Mike, don't assume that you will always be able to return new cables for refund, you have to ask. Some dealers might only offer credit not refund. Yes, one needs some extra speaker cables length to move speakers a little. 

I'll do just that. 

Before getting too carried away, a lot of metal science is carried out at very low temperatures and DC, neither of which apply in audio. As temperatures and frequency rise, performance tends to converge.

Back in the 80’s, we found that dielectric and geometry trumped metallurgy in an audio interconnect application. Cu, OFC and LCC all sounded pretty much the same with the same dielectric and geometry. Plain Cu with better dielectric and optimized geometry bested better metal with sub-optimal dielectric or geometry.

As Galeis points out, cables alter the phase relationship across the audio spectrum. Loudspeakers, and to a lesser extent electronics, do so as well. All interact to create a unique signature for that system alone.

The goal is to achieve a reasonable balance for the best musicality.
That can only be ascertained in situ.

Ieales, I’ll try and find some time today to read and study the Galen articles you provided links too. I’ve been busy on another non-audio project that’s taken up enough time to not be able to get that done.

What do OFC and LCC stand for? I did remember Cu stands for copper. I wish I was an electrical engineer to understand what dielectric and optimized geometry means, but alas am only a mere mortal. I do get the drift of what you’re saying though. I’ve got to listen to each cables performance "in situ" at home with my own system and listening environment to judge its musicality. Is that close?

On my other non-audio project, with help on another forum I did manage to track down the proper electrical overload protection "heater" element for a vintage magnetic starter I’d acquired to service a 19 amp, 230 volt motor on a 1959 industrial Delta 22-101 planer. That should certainly impress any right thinking electrical engineer. I was jubilant when I finally figured it out and sourced one on Ebay. Galen, here I come. Audio and electrical engineers, look out.

Mike