Ahh and Golden ear Triton 1. |
audition Nola boxers if possible. |
The Tektons look interesting and say they are efficient, though they also say they can handle 400 watts at 4 ohms. They offer a 60 day trial, which is generous. Shipping 200 lbs of speakers back...ouch!
Not sure you can expect $400 bookshelf ELACs to fill such a big room. You will be better served by a full range floor standing set. Forget sub and invest the extra into your main left/right channels.
If you have a dealer in your area, there is no harm in asking them for advice. They should know what speakers have good synergy with certain amps; maybe even your Brio. Though, I am thinking to get the sound you are after in that large space, you will need something more than what the Brio can deliver. At least you have started with a pretty solid analogue front end! |
Used is the way to go! Here is my 2 cents: (1) Sonus Faber Liuto speakers MSRP $5500 can be had for $2100 here on Agon. Great sound on their own but you could add a REL sub and still be under you $3k budget. (2) See if you can find an older Luxman R-117 (or even a 115) receiver for around $300. This will provide a sweet silky sound and lottttts of dynamic power! The tuner section is very nice so you get the bonus of of an additional source.
These will all be burned in so you know what you are getting at first listen. |
529proaudio,
Welcome to the hobby. You're questions parallel many I had about 18 months ago when I got back into it. I think I've learned a few things, so here are my two cents:
1. Take your time. The reality is that getting good/great sound, in your room, is a multi-variate challenge and, unless you just want to throw a bunch of money at the problem and rapid-fire switch out components, it's important to try X and then consider result Y. Trying X, taking into account break-in time, can require weeks or months. And don't try to install more than one component at a time, or you won't know what the cause of the result you're listening to is. Basic scientific method. It is also common for flaws to emerge over a long time and multiple types of music. So there is very rarely (but sometimes!) a singular "aha" moment.
2. In general, people overemphasize hardware over software, by which I mean the set-up/calibration aspects of high-end audio, not music. Hey, we're (mostly) guys. So, big boxes with shiny knobs and flashing lights that can make a room go BOOM get everyone's attention. But put great equipment, or mismatched equipment, in the wrong space and it sounds . . . not good. Imagine a Stradivarius in a phone booth, or a subway stop. Just not going to work out. Also, as seems obvious, manufacturers, and to an extent hifi magazines and websites, are in the business of advertising to "move the iron." Set up and calibration just isn't that lucrative a line of business. As someone else recommended, get hold of Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound. And read it carefully. It will be an education about the the importance of set-up and calibration. This will also set you in the direction of room treatments and digital sound processing (for lower frequencies -- to defeat standing waves). Many of Smith's suggestions cost nothing, or nearly so.
3. Sound is subjective. Those who've recommended focusing on finding great speakers have an excellent point, for the simple reason that inferior speakers can become a step-limiting function that prevent you from hearing the effect of equipment changes/improvements up the sonic chain. How could you possibly hear if a McIntosh or ARC amp was awesome if it was hooked up to poor speakers? But you MUST listen to the speakers before you buy, or buy with an adequate right to return for a refund (30 days minimum, 60 days better -- remember break-in period plus trying different music types and volumes takes a LOT of time to do honestly). Or, buy used speakers that are well-regarded and easy to resell for more or less what you paid, so you're only risking shipping charges and a bit of hassle running to USPS or UPS to try them out. And, to be clear, you will make mistakes regardless. So deep breaths and don't sweat it too much. It's a hobby, not a living. If the money really stresses you out, seriously consider another hobby. It's supposed to be fun. And also, you'll have to accept ahead of time that your tastes will refine/evolve over time. So your perfect (and expensive) system of 2017 isn't likely to be equally satisfying by 2019. Plus, the new stuff will be so shiny, with pretty lights. :-)
4. In general, used and reputable equipment in excellent condition is probably the best value. Like the automobile market, buying used means you don't pay the 20 - 30% premium for just driving the equipment off the dealer's lot. You'd be surprised how much awesome used stuff turns up. But this means you have to be patient in scouring the websites and waiting for the right thing, plus if they're not "right" you'll have to re-sell and it's a bit of a pain. But worth it. There are several aggregation websites, like hifisharkdotcom that make this easier. You can even set up search agents. And remember the cardinal rule of buying on the internet: buy the seller, not the product. If you can't trust the seller (based on reviews and references), move on.
5. If feasible in your area, join an audio club and go to a meeting or two to check it out. Most members are knowledgable and generous. They'll talk to you endlessly, they'll lend you equipment, they'll come over to your room to set stuff up and critique it. Hell, they'd probably help re-level your house if you asked'em.
6. I could recommend specific brands/models, but honestly without knowing your tastes and being in the room with you to hear the synergy, I'd be pulling recommendations out of . . . thin air. My own humble opinion is that highly specific equipment recommendations over the internet are largely a waste of time. There are surely great brands and models -- and many have been mentioned. Maybe specific recommendations are a starting point, but nothing substitutes for empirical experience in your room, with your own ears.
Enjoy the journey. And update us on how it's coming!
Cheers, Alex |
You will be well served to evaluate some new loudspeakers keeping in mind the amount of space that they will have to fill.
It is really often underappreciated what your choice of preamplifier and amplifier(s) can have in a system. There can be a terrific synergy between them and your loudspeakers or often times not. Spec's are a starting point only, so let your ears be the final judge. |
Hi,
I'd suggest following the advice of hglaser above... emphasis on point number 1! That being said .. did an audio dealer let you walk out the door with a $4,000 turntable and a $400 pair of speakers? You've chosen good components, but at three different levels of performance. The best systems I've had, and heard, are well-matched.. not necessarily the most expensive. Just curious if someone tried to help you choose a good "system".
Jerry |
529proaudio
if you diligently search the web there is a good amount of info on the tekton line. read it all carefully. the info that I gathered helped me to make a very informed decision. Take the money you save and then upgrade your cartridge. You just can't go wrong on the Double Impacts unless you have a very small room. Love these speakers more all the time. Single best purchase in my 40+ yrs of audio.
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I recommend auditioning PMC speakers if you can. They are top notch and very efficient. Depending on the model they should work well with a 40 Watt amp. I had a pair of TB2i's I was happy with, but then "the bug" bit me and I upgraded to something I had heard at an audio show. I have mixed feelings about it now..... |
Latest update(s)...again, thanks for all your collective wisdom and advice; much appreciated!
1. I bought a pair of used Devore Gibbon 9's today that should be here later this week. Admittedly, I'm having a little buyer's remorse simply because I think I paid a bit more than they are worth...but I'm excited to hear them nonetheless. Of course, not one hour after I sent funds I got some really good offers on a used pair of O/93s and a demo set of O/96s, but the 9's were already pushing the budget pretty hard so it is probably for the best. Details to follow.
2. I snagged a Moon 110LP phono stage that was discounted from $700 to $350 from a local dealer just to compare it to the Rega phono stage. Upon listening to a few records through the Moon, it sounds significantly better than the phono stage in the Rega. The Moon has considerably more depth, stereo field is much improved, tonality seems less harsh, etc...Oddly enough, I started getting some static through one of the speakers after a few hours that seems related to the Audioquest interconnect I bought to connect the Moon. When I swapped terminals the static switched to the other speaker channel. Will sort that out tomorrow, but I think the Moon is a keeper.
3. Close to pulling the trigger on a used Line Magnetic 518 to run with the Devores. Line Magnetic seems to be the amp/brand that every Devore dealer recommends, so I have no doubt it is a good bet. I would love the more powerful 508 model, but I will have to wait until I can find a used/demo...at $5k, that is more than I can spend right now. Looking at around $3100 for the 518.
4. Will likely keep the ELACs for my upstairs system as they really are very impressive for their price. Plan to take the Rega Brio back to the dealer this week.
In case you are wondering why I ignored the sage advice of demoing to all this stuff locally before making a decision, what I found is that many of the brands I was interested in do not have a dealer in Denver/Boulder, and even if they do, the store doesn't stock anything. I also feel a bit disingenuous using a dealer to demo equipment that I have little to no intention of buying brand new when I can get it for half the price used...wish me luck :) |
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I've heard the Line Magnetic driving both Devore Gibbons, and O/93s and the combination, in my opinion sounds beautiful. Very lifelike and dynamic. I believe that you've made an excellent choice. Let us know your impressions once you get to listen.
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Well that was a massive rethink! Tube amp, huge speaker upgrade, separate phono stage... impressive determination! Hope you enjoy it, and hope it sounds fantastic! |
Disjointed hmm, seem like loss of emotional connection to the sound, try British blood speakers, KEF worth consider, lots of choices, Harbeth, ProAc, or even more specific a LS3/5A design speakers, it just need clean power for fabulous sound, matching also becomes easier as sound already tuned pretty much perfect if you got clean power to drive the speakers |
As stated earlier, there's no substitute for good components, however, u have to work with what u can manage, at the time. I used to hold with the idea-good front end-good backend. Sounds good for other apps too😊 You have to have a good source,as well as a good reproduction method. I'm 63 years old, and I learn alittle each day. You're also gonna need a high current amp to drive whatever speakers u have. If you're going for the best sound, there's just no substitute. A lot depends on your room size. Even some of the cheaper reproduction devices have good front end. Concentrate on a high current amp that won't clip, and a good set of the speakers of your choice. The amp has to have "guts." Period. 😊 |
BTW-proper room treatment can turn a dog into a fox/really good sounding room. You can have the best components money can buy, but if your room and your set-up isn't good, you're chasing your tail. |
Update: Received the Devore 9's late last week and finally got to listen to them at length tonight. They are definitely far more detailed and brighter sounding than my ELAC Uni-Fi B5s. Listening to the new Wilco record it was quite noticeable how much more high-end detail came through the Devores. With the Elacs, the cymbal work was pretty buried in the mix, whereas on the Devores it was extremely audible and up front in the mix. My wife initially preferred the softer tonality of the ELACs, but then went back to the detail wrought by the Devores.
I snagged a Moon 110LP phono stage for $350 new last week, and find it to be an audible step up from the Rega Brio phono stage in terms of stereo imaging and tonality. I'm still running the Rega Brio as my amp...mainly because no one locally carries an amp I'm interested in, and I'm having trouble finding a dealer who will accept returns if the amp isn't a good fit in my system. The new Line Magnetic 508 looks like a perfect fit given its extra power for a SET, but it is a bit out of my price range for the moment. Also considering a used 518 or one of their cheaper models as well, i.e. 211ia EL34 or 216ia KT88. I'm told the Leben amps are a great match for the Devores as well, but they are impossible to find used or even as a demo it would seem. A few Devore dealers have recommended the class-A solid state Sugden A21, but I'm leaning towards tubes for a variety of reasons.
Finally, I also experimented a bit with speaker orientation and acoustic treatment. Running long ways, the room is 13x40' which meant I had to crank the speakers pretty high to load the room. I went back to my original setup with speakers along the long wall and effectively making a 13x13 listening space. Frankly, I don't notice a ton of difference, though I do think it requires less volume. I also removed my corner mounted bass traps to see if that would provide a more balanced low-end and a more realistic live sound. Will need some more time to evaluate those changes. |
Hi,
I've been trying to put together a system. Harbeth shl5 plus > mc152 > C2600 or C52. Other speakers I've looked into are the Atc 19's passive and 40scm v2 passive. Do you think this would be a great match? I mostly listen to jambands, progressive rock, electronic, and some classical. I'll probably also look into 7ES3 too. But I'll need a sub with those I believe. From what I've been reading some people don't like pairing Atc with Mac equipment gear. Is this true?
thanks
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I heard the ATC SCM19 v.2 recently at an owners home. If I was looking for a smaller 2 way they would definitely be on my short list. Clean powerful detailed and musical. Just bring the power they are not efficient. Not sure how they would pair with Mac. |
I'll definitely check the 19's with a Mac amp next time I go and whatever else they have. I did like the harbeth speakers too! Different dealer. Harbeths do cost more unfortunately, but maybe Mac is a better pair with them. Too bad the Harbeth dealer doesn't have Mac too.
thanks for the response back!
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Just my own personal experience. I used to have a Mac C-45 preamp and MC-402 power amp. Had this combo for several years. Tried a Rogue Audio Pharaoh hybrid integrated, and it totally outperformed the Mac gear. Mac Combo= $12k.......Rogue Pharaoh= $3500. |
Welcome to the madness! Once you begin on this audio journey, there's no going back!
You are getting lots of good advice here. In the end, only you know what 'sound' you like as it's a very personal thing.
I'll suggest a slightly different route. Consider a tube preamp mated to a pro audio amp (i.e. Yamaha, Crown, QSC, Soundcraftsmen, etc.). There is very good $ value to be found in pro audio gear.
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The c2600 is a tube preamp/dac. Isn't the mc152 a pro audio amp? |
