Please Critique my Setup and Recommend Upgrade(s)


As a lifelong musician and former recording / pro audio engineer, this is my first foray into the world of HiFi and I could really use some advice and direction.  Last week I bought the following setup for a dedicated listening room that is essentially a 13x13 square room on three sides with the area behind me extending back another 25 or so feet.  There is a partial backwall about four feet wide but it is mostly open air behind me.  Ceilings are 9' and I have GIK bass traps in all corners, early reflection points on the side walls, and panels overhead between speakers and listening position.  Speakers are about 2 1/2 feet from back wall, 6 ft. apart, slightly toed in on cheap stands weighted down by cinder blocks.

1. 2017 VPI Scout Prime turntable with Ortofon Bronze
2. 2017 Rega Brio Integrated 50wpc Amp and Phono Stage
3. ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 Speakers

So far this setup certainly sounds good, but it isn't blowing me away either.  At lower volumes the soundstage feels a little small and two-dimensional.  At louder volumes the sound seems to fill the room more, thereby enhancing the soundstage and making the music feel more natural as opposed to coming from directly in front of me.  The stereo imaging is okay, but I expected a little more stereo separation.  Also, perhaps the speakers are still breaking in, but the ELACs don't seem to do the best job of presenting the music in a cohesive manner.  It sounds like the frequency bands are a little disjointed.    

Should I stick with the ELACs but consider a higher end integrated amp that can feed them a little more power like a Parasound Halo?  Or should I nix the ELACs and invest in some more efficient and higher end loudspeakers,e.g. Devore, ATC, ProAc, etc...?  Would I still get an audible improvement with these nicer and more efficient speakers if I stick with the Rega Brio, or do these high end speakers warrant a truly high end amp?  I ask because I likely can't upgrade both speakers and amp at the same time.    

I also considered the KEF LS50, but it seems like they are similar to the ELACs in that they are rather inefficient and need a powerful amp.  

   
529proaudio

Showing 9 responses by 529proaudio

Hi Greg, I agree about the Rega being somewhat underpowered for the inefficiency of the ELACs. Given the choice, would you upgrade the speakers to something better and more efficient or keep the ELACs and upgrade to a more powerful amp? I'm leaning towards upgrading the speakers, particularly since the Rega is also my phono stage and headphone amp. 

As for speakers, any favorites (new or used) in the $3k range?  
Hey guys, can’t thank you enough for all of the sage advice. Much appreciated! I experimented with a few things today and am definitely getting a better sound. I swapped out the generic loaner phone connect for what appears to be a much better, albeit far from boutique, phono connect from Pro-ject that my dealer highly recommended. Next, I moved the speakers back a bit and placed them wider which has certainly opened up the image and enhanced the low end a bit. For reference, they are 32" from back wall to front of speaker and 39" from side wall to front of speaker. I don’t feel that the acoustic treatments are overly absorbing the room necessarily, as the sound is still what I would consider bright, almost too much so. I do think it is pretty accurate as I’m not getting any early reflections from the 9’ ceiling or the side walls and the bass should be pretty well trapped in all of the corners.  Scrolling through the pics on this site, I'm kind of blown away to see so many setups with uber-expensive gear and zero acoustic treatment.   

Despite the noted improvements, I’m afraid I’m already addicted to this and am still very curious to hear what a truly high end loudspeaker and/or amp combo is capable of. Thinking seriously about jumping on a used set of Devore Gibbon 9’s, but am having a hard time spending that kind of money on speakers I’ve never heard...especially until I’ve had a chance to check out some of the other brands suggested here.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.  I really appreciate you taking the time to support a ’total newb’ as my 8 year-old son would say.

Best,
Chris

I tried the Rogue Sphinx hybrid at my dealer but the Rega Brio was better with the ELACs. He has a Cronus Magnum that I can try, but he told me the phono stage wasn't all that great. Not sure if he meant in comparison to the Brio or just in general. 

Still thinking that upgrading to a pair of more efficient and better speakers would kill two birds with one stone as the low power of the Rega Brio wouldn't be as big of a deal. Still, I wouldn't be caught dead playing a solid state guitar amp, so something tells me I'm going to really prefer a tube amp when I finally hear one. 
 
Been crazy busy but hope to check out a few places this next week. 


Thanks again guys, really appreciate the advice!!!

As for the Rega Brio, I agree that it is a limiter at 50wpc for many speakers, but is it fair to say that upgrading to more efficient speakers would be as helpful as buying a more powerful amp, if not more?  I'm still new to speaker sensitivity and impedance, but wouldn't an upgrade from 85db to 91+ be the equivalent of running a monster amp with the ELACs?

I would guess I'm around 24 hours of music on the system, so I suppose I'm still in the burn-in phase with everything...again, the system doesn't sound bad by any stretch, but I'm willing to try a different amp and/or loudspeaker to make it really shine.  
Also, just to be clear, the room is actually about 13' wide by at least 40' long. My designated listening area of the space is 13x13. 
A lot of recs for the Tekton so far. Is this a new speaker company / design?  The only reviews I can find are kind of obscure home theater sites. 
Latest update(s)...again, thanks for all your collective wisdom and advice; much appreciated!

1. I bought a pair of used Devore Gibbon 9's today that should be here later this week.  Admittedly, I'm having a little buyer's remorse simply because I think I paid a bit more than they are worth...but I'm excited to hear them nonetheless.  Of course, not one hour after I sent funds I got some really good offers on a used pair of O/93s and a demo set of O/96s, but the 9's were already pushing the budget pretty hard so it is probably for the best.  Details to follow.  

2. I snagged a Moon 110LP phono stage that was discounted from $700 to $350 from a local dealer just to compare it to the Rega phono stage.  Upon listening to a few records through the Moon, it sounds significantly better than the phono stage in the Rega.  The Moon has considerably more depth, stereo field is much improved, tonality seems less harsh, etc...Oddly enough, I started getting some static through one of the speakers after a few hours that seems related to the Audioquest interconnect I bought to connect the Moon.  When I swapped terminals the static switched to the other speaker channel.  Will sort that out tomorrow, but I think the Moon is a keeper.  

3.   Close to pulling the trigger on a used Line Magnetic 518 to run with the Devores.  Line Magnetic seems to be the amp/brand that every Devore dealer recommends, so I have no doubt it is a good bet.  I would love the more powerful 508 model, but I will have to wait until I can find a used/demo...at $5k, that is more than I can spend right now.  Looking at around $3100 for the 518.      

4.  Will likely keep the ELACs for my upstairs system as they really are very impressive for their price.  Plan to take the Rega Brio back to the dealer this week.

In case you are wondering why I ignored the sage advice of demoing to all this stuff locally before making a decision, what I found is that many of the brands I was interested in do not have a dealer in Denver/Boulder, and even if they do, the store doesn't stock anything.  I also feel a bit disingenuous using a dealer to demo equipment that I have little to no intention of buying brand new when I can get it for half the price used...wish me luck :)   
Update:  Received the Devore 9's late last week and finally got to listen to them at length tonight.  They are definitely far more detailed and brighter sounding than my ELAC Uni-Fi B5s.  Listening to the new Wilco record it was quite noticeable how much more high-end detail came through the Devores.  With the Elacs, the cymbal work was pretty buried in the mix, whereas on the Devores it was extremely audible and up front in the mix.  My wife initially preferred the softer tonality of the ELACs, but then went back to the detail wrought by the Devores.  

I snagged a Moon 110LP phono stage for $350 new last week, and find it to be an audible step up from the Rega Brio phono stage in terms of stereo imaging and tonality.  I'm still running the Rega Brio as my amp...mainly because no one locally carries an amp I'm interested in, and I'm having trouble finding a dealer who will accept returns if the amp isn't a good fit in my system.  The new Line Magnetic 508 looks like a perfect fit given its extra power for a SET, but it is a bit out of my price range for the moment.  Also considering a used 518 or one of their cheaper models as well, i.e. 211ia EL34 or 216ia KT88.  I'm told the Leben amps are a great match for the Devores as well, but they are impossible to find used or even as a demo it would seem.  A few Devore dealers have recommended the class-A solid state Sugden A21, but I'm leaning towards tubes for a variety of reasons.  

Finally, I also experimented a bit with speaker orientation and acoustic treatment.  Running long ways, the room is 13x40' which meant I had to crank the speakers pretty high to load the room.  I went back to my original setup with speakers along the long wall and effectively making a 13x13 listening space. Frankly, I don't notice a ton of difference, though I do think it requires less volume.  I also removed my corner mounted bass traps to see if that would provide a more balanced low-end and a more realistic live sound.  Will need some more time to evaluate those changes.