Perfect Path Technologies: Omega E mat

@tommylion @aniwolfe thank you for your replies. I was wondering if the MC 0.5’s synergised with the Omega E mat?

1) Where would one buy these mats? I may have missed a link in the thread; but a google search provided no hits for the mats or TC.
2) How bad must your system or power quality suck to hear an improvement? I hear no background noise unless I put my ear up to the speaker and turn the gain higher than normal listening level. Is there anyone else in my situation? 

PS. The power to my house is very good and my system has it’s own 20 amp breaker and 12 G circuit.

2channel8,

They are available here on audiogon, listed under tweaks.

My experience has been that there is low level noise mixed in with the music signal (even when you have “clean” power), which you only notice when it is no longer there.

I guess my quoting  troutchoker back got him to delete his nonsensical post.

I have not heard the MC-0.5 modules.

I have heard the HFC cables at about half a dozen booths at audio shows in the past several years and the booths sounded bad.

I have extensive listening experience at my friend's high end system with and without them.  Don't believe everything audio reviewers post.  They are often wrong.  There are many reasons for this.  However, my friend purchased the $100,000+ cabling for a discounted price.  He thought he needed to boost the highs for his analog based system (Caliburn/Cobra) with a prior cartridge that he found dull.  He has since changed to a more neutral cartridge (I can't remember the name).  We also heard them with an Oppo 205 tubed/upgraded separate power supply unit with Blu-ray and CDs.  Every time he eliminated one set of cables (ICs, A/C, speaker cables) and replaced them with either Nordost Odins or my friends GroverHuffman cables, the system improved.  It was dreadful with the HFC in.  Supposedly, these HFCs were only the second from the top of the line cabling.  My friend sold them all.  He is a happy audiophile now and I enjoy listening to his "new" system.  

2channel8 ...

Here’s the link to purchase the Omega E Mats:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis91861-perfect-path-technologies-omega-e-mat-signal-enhancer-twe...

On the noise ... You can apply TC and/or the E Mats to the best audio systems and you will still reduce electronic noise that you wouldn’t know is there ... until its gone. Its all about lowering the noise floor to its lowest level. Where that "lowest" level is, is anyone’s guess. These two products, the Total Contact and the Omega E Mats, are the best at it that I’ve found in 40 years of fighting micro vibrations and applying room treatments. Members who are using these products are shocked at the improvement afforded when the noise floor is lowered to this level. Hope this helps ...

Frank

I have posted on a thread concerning the new Magico A3 speaker that I had not heard. I wrote that after auditioning and hearing Magicos of all types over the past five years, at least 15 times, that I find them highly resolving but uninvolving, not musically interesting (and certainly high priced). Two A3 owners jumped down my throat that I’m an idiot and have an agenda. The thread was started by a prospective A3 buyer who also did not like them (dark sounding) when he auditioned them. After a week, about a dozen audiophiles who heard the A3s came to the same conclusion as I did about the other Magico speakers. That they are not musically involving and wouldn’t own them. One of those A3 owners deleted his posts after the last several posts which supported the thread and my thoughts on it.

I mention this because I don’t hate Magico speakers. They are well made but not to my taste. However, the HFC cables are dreadful in every system I heard them in. Not musically uninteresting, just BAD! So, don’t believe reviewers. Here is an instance where you can spot either deaf reviewers or lying reviewers.

@fleschler

Your post about your friend’s mega buck is still readable on this thread from what I can see. Not sure why you posted about it twice. I get it..you and him don’t like HFC cabling. All opinions from different ears...a lot of people like them and they are not reviewers.

I'm sorry, it's not just my opinion, it's also the opinion of several friends who heard it at shows and both the system owner and a friend who is a audio electronics manufacturer at his house.  If it were only my opinion and no one else's I wouldn't have said anything.  I still think that massive magnets placed near cabling is a bad idea.

@fleschler

Never implied you were the only one that does not like the product. Please don’t. But it seems to me your saying that people who like HFC products are gullible from reading reviews? I find that a little insulting.

I encourage you to voice your opinion in the many HFC thread here...so you can warn people about your findings. If I had read your post 2 years ago I would have never bought some of the cables they make. :P

I'm not trying to insult buyers.  My friend bought them but does not have as critical an ear and thought they were okay with his dull cartridge but not his neutral one which is why is asked my friend and I over to hear what the problem was in his system.  Buyers are not gullible from reading reviews but from not hearing the products themselves; hence, the E-Mat which I everyone likes who have tried them is the best way to buy a product.  I am sorry that you don't like the HFCs you bought probably at a very high cost.  There are many alternative cables at lower cost.  Hopefully, you can get most of your cost back if you decide to sell them.  

After the experience with the Magico A3 where I had a dozen supporters of my view and only two owners (one who withdrew comments), I do not want to voice my opinion on an HFC thread.  I would be criticized as a troll.

It appears then that magnets and external magnetic fields are bad around circuits that are energized with electric current that has its own local magnetic field. As mentioned, various demagnetizing products used on media and cables tend to improve sound quality.  Not to cast doubt or cause controversy, because I love my Omega E Mat under my CD player, but just wondering why the mat has a magnetized face at all.  Laying the mat on or under seems to be the most used method as opposed to sticking it on a ferrous surface.  Again, just curious.    

@flescher

I was kidding...I do like the HFC cables that I heard and bought. I did not pay a lot for them either and I had a 30 day return. But the reviews made me keep them  ;)

jafreeman   That is a good question-why do the E-Mats require or have a magnetic surface?  If they require it, would more magnetism (ordinary magnetic mats) improve the effect/sound?  Or are they benign in the E-Mat application and just easier to use in the E-Mat's preparation?  

It is obvious that stacking multiple E-Mats improves the sound/effectiveness.  

One reason it’s not really fair to discuss High Fidelity Cables in the context of magnetic fields and using magnets or demagnetizers in audio systems is because High Fidelity Cables use magnets for the actual conduction of the signal (I.e., magnetic conduction, his term) as opposed to trying to “manipulate the signal.”

Also it should be pointed out that the conductive element in HFC is not copper or silver but a high permeability alloy, you know, for absorbing/shielding magnetic fields. I suspect a pretty good cable or power cord could be made using that same high perm alloy in lieu of copper or silver and just skip the magnets. You know, since the current flowing through the conductor produces a magnetic field, one that is most likely not too good for the sound. Yes, I know what you’re thinking, well, what about all the other wire and cabling in the system, including the internal speaker wire and transformers? Bingo! 😛

From the GroverHuffman.com site: . "All cables incorporate my painstakingly designed state of the art carbon, tungsten, nickel shield that neutralizes Electro-magnetic influences on the signal both from within and without."   He binds the powdered carbon, tungsten and nickel with a glue than hardens on the mesh copper shielding.  The ribbon conductors are air core insulated within a teflon tube, whereby both tubes are shielded by the RF/EMI/magnetic mesh copper shield (and also results in very low capacitance).  This is an alternate way that cabling can eliminate magnetism effects (and painstakingly time consuming production method).  

I would not advise using E-Mats placed on cabling based on it's partially magnetic design.  

steakster
This doesn't make one right or wrong. Having gone to many audio shows over the years, I've heard speakers that others have loved, but didn't do anything for me at all. It's all subjective.

>>>>See, I have a somewhat different experience, also having been to many shows and having been part of many high end systems at shows. I rarely hear anything that sounds really good and much that sounds really bad.

“Painstakingly designed.” Ah, a true artist, willing to suffer for his art. 😩 

I'm mostly in agreement with you Geoff.  The last show with about 100 exhibitors had four really excellent audio systems.   Two were laughably bad (a glass enclosed speaker with a Kronos analog front end that was thin and bright and a wood cone two way speaker sounded hollow and dead).  Wouldn't you know it, some critics wrote how they enjoyed the worst sound at the show. 

Most rooms were okay but with sonic problems, some attributable to the room acoustics, some due to setup and some due to equipment (resulting in bright upper mid Focals, dark and funny sounding Magicos, etc.).   

But, everyone (including 7 or 8 critics who wrote about it) who has heard the Von Schweikert Ultra 11/VAC/Kronos room at about half a dozen shows were transfixed by the musicality of the reproduced music.  Funny, I didn't see any SR tweaks or E-Mats or other tweaks in the room-some ultimate systems just sound fabulous without them.  On the other end of the cost spectrum, a $7500 Volti horn speaker with a $9000 La Perla Audio integrated amp, $2500 analog w/a Dynavector 20x2 had people (like my wife and I) enjoying all types of music (jazz, orchestral, rock) for half an hour at a time.   That's a system I would try tweaks on like TC and E-Mats to bring more air and wider soundstage to it.

Geoff-I said painstakingly production method, hand-built, hand dipped in solution, individually drawn and textured signal conductors, etc.  The design has evolved over 15 years as well.  The designer keeps learning from electro-mechanical engineering audio discoveries to incorporate into his cabling, comparing it to commercially available high end cables.  At shows, he has about a dozen exhibitors change out an A/C cable or some ICs and they listen and ask him to leave the cables for the rest of the day.  Unfortunately, they often have competing cables that they are selling and cannot use them to the exclusion of their product lines.  Even Holger Stein of Stein Music and  tried and liked his cables but has his own to sell.

Uh, whatever.

😀

Here we go again, another Troll demeaning Frank, Tim. Robert and anyone who has purchased or tried TC or E-Mats.  He's posted terrible diatribes against us on TC and a few here with NO evidence, just his supposition.  Since Frank isn't being paid and isn't Tim's brother-in-law, what is "or something"?  If you don't like Tim's products and haven't tried them or want to try them, leave this forum, PLEASE!

@fleschler  As one who has not tried any of Mr. Mrock's products, the fanboys here do present as a "cult-like" group.  For those who are citizens of the USA, the first amendment, as far as I know, has not been repealed!  Participants here can read a post like the one from tlong1958 and assess it from their perspective.

I have no first hand experience with Tim's products and am intrigued by the results people purport to have achieved with TC and the Mat.  The accolades do, at times, seem a bit over the top, unless they're not!

Please don't "snowflake-out" and quest for a "safe space".😏

I would like confirmation on one question; will you get the same results using the E-mat underneath a Dac vs on top of the Dac?

lak:

I am currently using an E-Mat on top of a PS Audio Dac. I will also try it underneath the DAC is a few days. So far I have confirmed an observation of Oregonpappa that the side with the E-Mat label works better if facing the interior of the component. I found this to be the case with a Pass Lab INT -60 amplifier (no other tweeks to amp except Synergistic Research Blue fuse ) and an OPPO 203 Blue Ray player.


Both pieces of equipment sit on Synergistic Research Tranquility Bases. Both pieces of equipment had significant improvement.


David Pritchard 

“@fleschler As one who has not tried any of Mr. Mrock’s products, the fanboys here do present as a "cult-like" group. For those who are citizens of the USA, the first amendment, as far as I know, has not been repealed! Participants here can read a post like the one from tlong1958 and assess it from their perspective.”

It always makes me laugh when someone evokes the first amendment in regard to posts on forums. No one has the legal right to say whatever they want on this forum. Speech is limited by the rules laid down by the owners/administrators of the forum.

As far as tlong1958’s post, I reported it because I thought it was in violation of forum rules. Apparently, the moderators agreed with me, because the post was deleted.

   

• "The accolades do, at times, seem a bit over the top, unless they're not!"  

They're not.  :-)

@tommylion   Thank goodness you enforced the rules.  👮🏼‍♂️

I know you’re being sarcastic, but I don’t have any authority to enforce the rules. Nor do you.

You seem to think that anything and everything should be tolerated in the name of “openness”. Sorry, I don’t subscribe to that philosophy. I’m glad those in authority here don’t either.

@tommylion Mind-reading too?? You are indeed multitalented! 🧐

Thank you tommylion.  I forgot to ask the moderator myself as I have done once in the past where the post broke the rules, was very defamatory and non-responsive to the thread topic.

I reached the two week mark today.  The evidence is clear that the E-Mat effectiveness increases over time.  I am using six E-Mats, to review, 1 on the main power panel, 1 on the audio subpanel, 1 under the Bryston BIT-20 isolation transformer, 1 under the Ear Acute CD player and 2 stacked under the pre-amp/phono pre-amp. 

I am stunned by the improvement in sound.  Just the improvement in resolution/clarity would be sufficient.  So many details and performance characteristics are illuminated that I never heard or previously paid attention to.  The music's the same but there is so much more to it to enjoy.  Actually, some recordings I thought were just okay are now fascinatingly interesting because I can hear subtle dynamic and rhythmic shifts that were previously obscured.  I thought I needed a high end new speaker to hear those details but now I don't.

Frequency extremes are better in a way that Frank describes as "a lower noise floor."  They just pop more. 

When I put my ear to the speakers, they are quieter.  I have 98db sensitive speakers and what today is considered large, hissy tube amps (well with a signal, without a signal their almost silent).  This hiss is way down in level.  From my seat 13' away, there was no hiss with a signal.

The only parameter I can't resolve is the stereo separation of early stereo recordings, especially jazz (many on Contemporary label).  My 1956 to 1958 recordings are now mostly left and right channel with a hole in the middle unless there is a soloist recorded in the middle.  Mono and more modern stereo recordings don't have this problem and completely fill the center between the speakers.  Has anyone else noticed this effect?  It maybe that those early stereo recordings or my speakers are not good at filling in the center for those recordings and E-Mats just clarify the recording technique.

Excellent @fleschler ! Thanks for sharing!

Any chance there’s somebody near you that streams their music? I’ve played around with Sonic Tonic from Tweek Geek and the Black Discus from Mad Scientist and seem to get the biggest jump in performance when these items are placed around the modem and router so I’m curious to the effect the e-mats could have with this.

fleschler,

I notice the same thing with some of the early stereo jazz recordings (Cannonball Adderley’s Somethin’ Else, for example). I suspect it is in the recording(s), or possibly the mastering.

fleschler & tommylion ...

A lot of the early stereo jazz recording were recorded in what seems like dual mono. In my experience, the early Blue Note records are the worst offenders. The Contemporary stereo recordings are some of the best records produced during the 50's & 60's. Contemporary recordings in mono have excellent SQ as well. 

t_ramey ...

I'll try an E Mat under my router later today and report back. I've pasted all connections on my computer with TC to great effect, especially on the picture and sound.

Frank

I just returned from my 94 year old Mother's apartment. "How is the sound from your streaming computer system? It became more open this morning she replied. It is sounding very good. Today is day 4 with the E Mat at the circuit breaker and another one on top of the PS Audio DAC.

For fun we tried the Mat  being front to back, side to side, and label up or down. She heard small differences with each position and settled with lettering facing down toward the DAC and the long direction of the MAT going in a front to back direction.

Tommy Dorsey was sounding good when I left. I have not tried on top of her computer or at her Router - signal is sent by hard wire to computer.

It will be interesting to hear her system at the end of next week.

David Pritchard

Just a thought,

John McDonald of Audience AV, in a recent interview mentioned “Currently we are investigating nanotechnology (nano-conductive sprays and nano-substrate deposits) and their uses to improve sonics.”  Seems like this delusion is spreading.🤯

Keep up the good work Tim.

rc

@davidpritchard nice that your Mother gets to hear the improvements. I was wondering if you had considered removing the SR Tranquility Bases and just use the Omega E Mat on it’s own to determine if the mat works better that way. It would be interesting to test.

@t_ramey I’m also curious about the effects the Mat has on streaming. In recent experiments with the fidata server I have had good results reducing the noise floor by stacking Bybee’s on top and under the Aqvox switch and my hub. So if the Omega Mat is better than the Bybee’s (which according to some reviews it is) the results should be considerably better, even with one mat. Btw I have had amazing results using different LAN cables between the switch and the fidata. The fidata is a server only, not a streamer, but despite that I can clearly hear the differences between LAN cables. This must be due to a further reduction in noise and RFI rejection. Out of the LAN cables tried, Aqvox, Vovox, Meicord and Sablon, the Sablon was the clear winner, much more open and detailed by some margin.  It’s very stiff though, but looks like a work of art.

@toetapaudio I’ve experimented with various Ethernet cables as well and found mixing different brands gives a good effect. I also applied the TC enhancer to not only the connectors for the ethernet cables but also where the coax cable comes in and to the modem. The TC had a great effect on all instances. 

  I have had my mat in place for just over a week now and it keeps getting better.  I had mine so the label was facing away from the component but I tried flipping it based on davidpritchards advice.  In my system it sounds great either way.  The soundstage and realism is incredible.  Also I have never had such great quality of bass.  I have been listening to a lot of music and it is so relaxing but also so many new details in the cds that have been hidden untill now.  I can't wait to be able to try another mat.

@fleschler

Since Frank isn’t being paid and isn’t Tim’s brother-in-law, what is "or something"?

Unless I’m mistaken, Frank has been "paid" in free products. Has he monetarily paid for a single product he owns from Tim? This is a simple yes/no question.

Before Frank goes on a tangent of how much "work" he’s done, the beta only requires ONE E mat. If he has multiple unpaid for E mats, then this is beyond the necessary, and is "payment" towards him.


On a different subject, does anyone that likes the E mat not like the Blue fuses? Or is this the same group of listeners like it seems?

Jay23,

I have not, as of yet, ever tried changing out my stock fuses. My mind is open to it.

As of now I am enjoying the TC and Mat products and their benefits.

rc

Quick interrupt. I received my cheapo magnetic mats from eBay yesterday and put three mats under my trusty portable Panny CD player, made in Japan. I listened to a CD I am quite familiar with and got nothing. I also got nothing on my hopped up LG HD TV with stacked magnetic mats on my flat TV amplified antenna.

I do get good repeatable results, on the other hand, with the Walker Talisman degausser (that’s a demagnetized to you civilians) on CDs, on the player itself and on the headphone cable. If it doesn’t make sense it’s not true. - Judge Judy

Geoff, somehow I am not surprised that you achieved "good repeatable results" using the degasser. Truth be told though, I and I suspect a number of us will be busy (repeat, will be busy) on the day of the double blind testing. 

Geoff:
Thank you for doing this important experiment with magnetic mats.

I absolutely agree on the benefits of degaussing CD's. The Walker Tailsman, Acoustic Revive, and Furutech degaussers are all effective in improving CD and DVD performance.


Degaussing improves the sound in my systems in addition to the benefit of E-Mats being in place -presently at the circuit breaker box, amplifier, and Oppo DVD player.

David Pritchard

I picked up some cheap magnet sheets as well in 8x10 20mil size and placed one on top of my power conditioner with magnet side facing up. This conditioner has my tv, modem, router, and Apple TV plugged into it. The router feeds my Mac mini that’s hooked up to my DAC and stereo system in another room. I placed two sheets on each speaker facing up and one at the outlet where my stereo is plugged in facing up. I could definitely hear a difference but not sure if it’s something I’ll stay with. Music has more snap and pop but at the expense of natural warmth. This is not a huge difference but something I could easily repeat with/without the sheets.

TV picture on the other hand did have a more vibrant look to it that made things a little more exciting but I could probably live without it. The sheets were only $20 for a pack of ten so I figured it was worth a try. I could put more around other components but thought I’d try here first. I could see if someone has a warmer sounding system this could work but again I didn’t find it to be a huge difference. I’m still looking forward to trying the smaller version of the e-mat when they’re ready to go.

My one E mat sits on a thick slab of granite, magnetic face down, and is 2-1/2" away from the bottom of my CD player. I don’t think the vastly improved sound has anything to do with the magnetic face of the mat interacting with the component. Perhaps the magnetized face is needed to activate some other process in the mat--no idea--but to stack up magnetic sheets around components as a cheapo version of the mat--nope.