Perfect Path Technologies: Omega E mat

@tommylion   Thank goodness you enforced the rules.  👮🏼‍♂️

   

• "The accolades do, at times, seem a bit over the top, unless they're not!"  

They're not.  :-)

“@fleschler As one who has not tried any of Mr. Mrock’s products, the fanboys here do present as a "cult-like" group. For those who are citizens of the USA, the first amendment, as far as I know, has not been repealed! Participants here can read a post like the one from tlong1958 and assess it from their perspective.”

It always makes me laugh when someone evokes the first amendment in regard to posts on forums. No one has the legal right to say whatever they want on this forum. Speech is limited by the rules laid down by the owners/administrators of the forum.

As far as tlong1958’s post, I reported it because I thought it was in violation of forum rules. Apparently, the moderators agreed with me, because the post was deleted.

lak:

I am currently using an E-Mat on top of a PS Audio Dac. I will also try it underneath the DAC is a few days. So far I have confirmed an observation of Oregonpappa that the side with the E-Mat label works better if facing the interior of the component. I found this to be the case with a Pass Lab INT -60 amplifier (no other tweeks to amp except Synergistic Research Blue fuse ) and an OPPO 203 Blue Ray player.


Both pieces of equipment sit on Synergistic Research Tranquility Bases. Both pieces of equipment had significant improvement.


David Pritchard 

I would like confirmation on one question; will you get the same results using the E-mat underneath a Dac vs on top of the Dac?

@fleschler  As one who has not tried any of Mr. Mrock's products, the fanboys here do present as a "cult-like" group.  For those who are citizens of the USA, the first amendment, as far as I know, has not been repealed!  Participants here can read a post like the one from tlong1958 and assess it from their perspective.

I have no first hand experience with Tim's products and am intrigued by the results people purport to have achieved with TC and the Mat.  The accolades do, at times, seem a bit over the top, unless they're not!

Please don't "snowflake-out" and quest for a "safe space".😏

Here we go again, another Troll demeaning Frank, Tim. Robert and anyone who has purchased or tried TC or E-Mats.  He's posted terrible diatribes against us on TC and a few here with NO evidence, just his supposition.  Since Frank isn't being paid and isn't Tim's brother-in-law, what is "or something"?  If you don't like Tim's products and haven't tried them or want to try them, leave this forum, PLEASE!

Uh, whatever.

😀

Geoff-I said painstakingly production method, hand-built, hand dipped in solution, individually drawn and textured signal conductors, etc.  The design has evolved over 15 years as well.  The designer keeps learning from electro-mechanical engineering audio discoveries to incorporate into his cabling, comparing it to commercially available high end cables.  At shows, he has about a dozen exhibitors change out an A/C cable or some ICs and they listen and ask him to leave the cables for the rest of the day.  Unfortunately, they often have competing cables that they are selling and cannot use them to the exclusion of their product lines.  Even Holger Stein of Stein Music and  tried and liked his cables but has his own to sell.

I'm mostly in agreement with you Geoff.  The last show with about 100 exhibitors had four really excellent audio systems.   Two were laughably bad (a glass enclosed speaker with a Kronos analog front end that was thin and bright and a wood cone two way speaker sounded hollow and dead).  Wouldn't you know it, some critics wrote how they enjoyed the worst sound at the show. 

Most rooms were okay but with sonic problems, some attributable to the room acoustics, some due to setup and some due to equipment (resulting in bright upper mid Focals, dark and funny sounding Magicos, etc.).   

But, everyone (including 7 or 8 critics who wrote about it) who has heard the Von Schweikert Ultra 11/VAC/Kronos room at about half a dozen shows were transfixed by the musicality of the reproduced music.  Funny, I didn't see any SR tweaks or E-Mats or other tweaks in the room-some ultimate systems just sound fabulous without them.  On the other end of the cost spectrum, a $7500 Volti horn speaker with a $9000 La Perla Audio integrated amp, $2500 analog w/a Dynavector 20x2 had people (like my wife and I) enjoying all types of music (jazz, orchestral, rock) for half an hour at a time.   That's a system I would try tweaks on like TC and E-Mats to bring more air and wider soundstage to it.

“Painstakingly designed.” Ah, a true artist, willing to suffer for his art. 😩 

steakster
This doesn't make one right or wrong. Having gone to many audio shows over the years, I've heard speakers that others have loved, but didn't do anything for me at all. It's all subjective.

>>>>See, I have a somewhat different experience, also having been to many shows and having been part of many high end systems at shows. I rarely hear anything that sounds really good and much that sounds really bad.

From the GroverHuffman.com site: . "All cables incorporate my painstakingly designed state of the art carbon, tungsten, nickel shield that neutralizes Electro-magnetic influences on the signal both from within and without."   He binds the powdered carbon, tungsten and nickel with a glue than hardens on the mesh copper shielding.  The ribbon conductors are air core insulated within a teflon tube, whereby both tubes are shielded by the RF/EMI/magnetic mesh copper shield (and also results in very low capacitance).  This is an alternate way that cabling can eliminate magnetism effects (and painstakingly time consuming production method).  

I would not advise using E-Mats placed on cabling based on it's partially magnetic design.  

One reason it’s not really fair to discuss High Fidelity Cables in the context of magnetic fields and using magnets or demagnetizers in audio systems is because High Fidelity Cables use magnets for the actual conduction of the signal (I.e., magnetic conduction, his term) as opposed to trying to “manipulate the signal.”

Also it should be pointed out that the conductive element in HFC is not copper or silver but a high permeability alloy, you know, for absorbing/shielding magnetic fields. I suspect a pretty good cable or power cord could be made using that same high perm alloy in lieu of copper or silver and just skip the magnets. You know, since the current flowing through the conductor produces a magnetic field, one that is most likely not too good for the sound. Yes, I know what you’re thinking, well, what about all the other wire and cabling in the system, including the internal speaker wire and transformers? Bingo! 😛

It is obvious that stacking multiple E-Mats improves the sound/effectiveness.  

jafreeman   That is a good question-why do the E-Mats require or have a magnetic surface?  If they require it, would more magnetism (ordinary magnetic mats) improve the effect/sound?  Or are they benign in the E-Mat application and just easier to use in the E-Mat's preparation?  

@flescher

I was kidding...I do like the HFC cables that I heard and bought. I did not pay a lot for them either and I had a 30 day return. But the reviews made me keep them  ;)

It appears then that magnets and external magnetic fields are bad around circuits that are energized with electric current that has its own local magnetic field. As mentioned, various demagnetizing products used on media and cables tend to improve sound quality.  Not to cast doubt or cause controversy, because I love my Omega E Mat under my CD player, but just wondering why the mat has a magnetized face at all.  Laying the mat on or under seems to be the most used method as opposed to sticking it on a ferrous surface.  Again, just curious.    

I'm not trying to insult buyers.  My friend bought them but does not have as critical an ear and thought they were okay with his dull cartridge but not his neutral one which is why is asked my friend and I over to hear what the problem was in his system.  Buyers are not gullible from reading reviews but from not hearing the products themselves; hence, the E-Mat which I everyone likes who have tried them is the best way to buy a product.  I am sorry that you don't like the HFCs you bought probably at a very high cost.  There are many alternative cables at lower cost.  Hopefully, you can get most of your cost back if you decide to sell them.  

After the experience with the Magico A3 where I had a dozen supporters of my view and only two owners (one who withdrew comments), I do not want to voice my opinion on an HFC thread.  I would be criticized as a troll.

I encourage you to voice your opinion in the many HFC thread here...so you can warn people about your findings. If I had read your post 2 years ago I would have never bought some of the cables they make. :P

@fleschler

Never implied you were the only one that does not like the product. Please don’t. But it seems to me your saying that people who like HFC products are gullible from reading reviews? I find that a little insulting.

I'm sorry, it's not just my opinion, it's also the opinion of several friends who heard it at shows and both the system owner and a friend who is a audio electronics manufacturer at his house.  If it were only my opinion and no one else's I wouldn't have said anything.  I still think that massive magnets placed near cabling is a bad idea.

@fleschler

Your post about your friend’s mega buck is still readable on this thread from what I can see. Not sure why you posted about it twice. I get it..you and him don’t like HFC cabling. All opinions from different ears...a lot of people like them and they are not reviewers.

I have posted on a thread concerning the new Magico A3 speaker that I had not heard. I wrote that after auditioning and hearing Magicos of all types over the past five years, at least 15 times, that I find them highly resolving but uninvolving, not musically interesting (and certainly high priced). Two A3 owners jumped down my throat that I’m an idiot and have an agenda. The thread was started by a prospective A3 buyer who also did not like them (dark sounding) when he auditioned them. After a week, about a dozen audiophiles who heard the A3s came to the same conclusion as I did about the other Magico speakers. That they are not musically involving and wouldn’t own them. One of those A3 owners deleted his posts after the last several posts which supported the thread and my thoughts on it.

I mention this because I don’t hate Magico speakers. They are well made but not to my taste. However, the HFC cables are dreadful in every system I heard them in. Not musically uninteresting, just BAD! So, don’t believe reviewers. Here is an instance where you can spot either deaf reviewers or lying reviewers.

2channel8 ...

Here’s the link to purchase the Omega E Mats:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis91861-perfect-path-technologies-omega-e-mat-signal-enhancer-twe...

On the noise ... You can apply TC and/or the E Mats to the best audio systems and you will still reduce electronic noise that you wouldn’t know is there ... until its gone. Its all about lowering the noise floor to its lowest level. Where that "lowest" level is, is anyone’s guess. These two products, the Total Contact and the Omega E Mats, are the best at it that I’ve found in 40 years of fighting micro vibrations and applying room treatments. Members who are using these products are shocked at the improvement afforded when the noise floor is lowered to this level. Hope this helps ...

Frank

I guess my quoting  troutchoker back got him to delete his nonsensical post.

I have not heard the MC-0.5 modules.

I have heard the HFC cables at about half a dozen booths at audio shows in the past several years and the booths sounded bad.

I have extensive listening experience at my friend's high end system with and without them.  Don't believe everything audio reviewers post.  They are often wrong.  There are many reasons for this.  However, my friend purchased the $100,000+ cabling for a discounted price.  He thought he needed to boost the highs for his analog based system (Caliburn/Cobra) with a prior cartridge that he found dull.  He has since changed to a more neutral cartridge (I can't remember the name).  We also heard them with an Oppo 205 tubed/upgraded separate power supply unit with Blu-ray and CDs.  Every time he eliminated one set of cables (ICs, A/C, speaker cables) and replaced them with either Nordost Odins or my friends GroverHuffman cables, the system improved.  It was dreadful with the HFC in.  Supposedly, these HFCs were only the second from the top of the line cabling.  My friend sold them all.  He is a happy audiophile now and I enjoy listening to his "new" system.  

2channel8,

They are available here on audiogon, listed under tweaks.

My experience has been that there is low level noise mixed in with the music signal (even when you have “clean” power), which you only notice when it is no longer there.

1) Where would one buy these mats? I may have missed a link in the thread; but a google search provided no hits for the mats or TC.
2) How bad must your system or power quality suck to hear an improvement? I hear no background noise unless I put my ear up to the speaker and turn the gain higher than normal listening level. Is there anyone else in my situation? 

PS. The power to my house is very good and my system has it’s own 20 amp breaker and 12 G circuit.

@tommylion @aniwolfe thank you for your replies. I was wondering if the MC 0.5’s synergised with the Omega E mat?

toetapaudio,

I have one MC-0.5 plugged into the duplex outlet that feeds my system. Please see my experience with it here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/high-fidelity-cables-mc-0-5-waveguide-and-total-contact

I have not removed it to see what effect that might have, as my system is sounding so wonderful I don't want to mess with it 😉

@toetapaudio 

HFC has a 30 day return....so no reason for anyone to be stuck with the product. Even if one person feels they suck and I know many don't, you should give 1 a shot to see for yourself.

Personally I like the MC-05's, but I have heard them not synergize well in some (few) system setups. Please visit the HFC threads here to get more views.

I have also read that some people prefer the cheaper HFC products over the more expensive ones. Once again..system synergy.

“tommylion- I wonder how E-Mats work on speakers?  I didn't think that would be an appropriate application. On my 5'6", 7 driver speakers, the drivers are located up to 5' down, the speaker terminals 5' down and the crossover about mid-way down.

How strong is the E-Mats affect on a speaker that size?  Would six stacked E-Mats be more effective on a speaker? Would an E-Mat be effective covering speaker terminals?”

fleschler,

I really have no idea how the mats work with speakers, but I continue to be delighted with the improvements they bring. I am really looking forward to getting two weeks on them.

My AN speakers are two ways on stands, around 4 1/2’ total height. I have the mats on top of them, long side front to back. The tweeter, woofer and crossover are all no more than 18” below the mat. As I understand it from Tim, the effect of the mat extends vertically above and below it. How far, I'm not sure? This is all new to me, sorry I can't be more help with your questions. Obviously, Tim would be the one to ask.

@fleschler, good to get your comments on HFC, would your opinion also apply to their HFC MC 0.5 power modules?

fleschler
354 posts
07-19-2018 7:15pm
Geoff-The High Fidelity cables do exactly what you think of magnets added to cables, they increase the noise and distortion. The former proud owner of them complained that his system lacked smoothness. When I heard it, it sounded like garbage coming our of the AvantGarde Trios and 3 pairs of Basshorns. All the instruments were like in bass relief, outlined but lacking in body with disjointed frequency range (separate lows, highs, mids). After installing a more conventional (but an extremely elaborate and patented) set of speaker, A/C and IC cabling, his audio system sounded really enjoyable.

>>>>There could be some explanation why you heard what you did. The High Fidelity Cables are not really an example of using magnets on cables, but an example of magnetic conduction. With all the positive testimonies and reviews of High Fidelity Cables I tend to believe that they probably sound very good and that something unknown produced those negative results in your friend’ system. Who knows what?

to whit, this excerpt of the review of High Fidelity cables in 6 Moons,

“The entry-level CT-1 introduces something quite unusual which immediately suggests that you're in high-end territory with a very liquid extended soundstage. But the most salient feature is their apparent naturalness. I have always considered it very difficult to combine a very lively music reproduction with a good level of neutrality. 

”The CT-1 speaker cables sat undoubtedly closer to Nordost than Cardas but were bit less ethereal than Valhalla to get closer to my concept of a truly universal wire. Bandwidth seemed extended but lacked some weight in the low end and the treble wasn’t as sweet and refined as the Nordost Valhalla. On the flip side the Yanks had the better midrange and balance than Nordost. The profusion of low-level detail was in the top range of many cables I know. These resolved a tremendous quantity of small nuance from the mid bass to the upper treble. They also cast a wide and deep soundstage with an amazing quietness like the AudioQuest K2 but with much better tone and dynamics.”

Full court press. Then man to man defense. Excellent, excellent....⛹️‍♂️ ⛹️‍♂️ ⛹🏻‍♂️ ⛹🏽‍♂️ ⛹🏻‍♂️

🐟
troutchoker
If a company cannot explain what it is selling it is usually selling air or feathers. ( junk.)

Whoa, hey, hold on there, troutchoker! There are many perfectly good reasons why a company cannot or should not explain a product it’s selling.

 In no particular order,

1. He doesn’t know the explanation or doesn’t know how to explain it technically.
2. He wishes to keep the details SECRET. You know, so someone doesn’t steal his idea.
3. He decided to keep the details SECRET in lieu of pursuing a patent, which can be very expensive.
4. He wishes to build suspense and drama.

Here is a quote from troutchoker on a cables thread " Here is a simple suggestion: if you think ANYTHING makes your music more satisfying then get it if you prefer."  Doesn't this sum up what all the posters who like E-Mats are doing? 

I don’t understand why some of you are so concerned with what other people think. Do what you like and just enjoy YOUR music. Enjoy."  Exactly.  That's what we are saying without knowing how or why E-Mats work.  

So, why does he hate a company who doesn't describe what they are selling, only that it obviously works for anyone who has tried the product?  

Frank,

I had no idea who you were until you started the TC forum. In fact, I never participated in any forum prior to the TC forum and now this one. Everything that you have described was compelling enough for me to try the TC on my own dime. I did so because you were describing the types of improvements that I had heard, after spending a bit of money for Audience power cables, interconnects, speaker cables, power conditioners and Stillpoints in my system. I was pretty happy with the musicality I had in both my systems but as cheap as the TC and mats are, compared to what I had spent, it could not hurt to try.

Though I was cautious in the beginning with the TC, due to my dealer/friend experience with other contact enhancers, I have treated more than I would have ever done because I like the positive effects on the music. The bottom line is, I am so glad I did because these two products are exactly as you and others have described. I have enjoyed my Hi-Fi more than ever because the TC and the mats have not hurt what I had done prior and have improved every aspect of those previous “tweaks”.

Finally, Tim Mrock has always answered all my questions about TC application and Mat placement in a very professional manor. He has also answered my calls and/or emails quickly. He is also very friendly, honest and excited about his product as any good businessman should be.

Now back to the music.

Thank you again Frank and get healed up.

rc

tlong1958 ...

Okay, this is exactly what I was referring to in my ethics comment.

First off, TC is not "goo." Its not "magical," nor are the E Mats "magical."

There have been numerous posts here, and also in the Total Contact thread, made by numerous members who have taken the plunge to buy and try the products who return to say that there has been no "hype" or "over the top" statements made. In fact, they have reported that it goes beyond what they expected. And yet, in an attempt to attract attention to yourself (as others have as well), you casually just spout off nonsense in an attempt to demean the products, the beta testers and the manufacturer himself. If that wasn’t your intent, then how about posting your intentions in a further post. Thanks ...

You say Audiogon is getting goofier every day and getting hard to take? How about living in a society where the majority think they are owed something for nothing ... is that goofy enough for you, or what?

Another example ... you state there hasn’t been an attempt to explain what’s causing these products to work. First of all, the manufacturer doesn’t owe you a damned thing, let alone an explanation that would reveal to the world that, which he’s worked for, for so many years to accomplish.

You are correct in one thing you said, and I agree totally agree with you on it. Its your "gushing" comment. Those who have tried the TC and the E Mats ARE gushing ... and for good reason too. These products are transforming their audio systems far beyond where they could ever have dreamed they would be through using the usual channels. Its called "innovation."

Open up your wallet, tlong1958. Let all of the moths fly out, then buy a few Omega E Mats and a tube of TC, then you’ll see what all the "hype" is all about. You’ll be "gushing" too.

Order the mats first. If you like what the results are, then order the TC. They work very well together. Remember, there’s a money back guarantee on the mats, so you can’t lose. Shouldn’t be anything holding you back at this point now, right???

Let us know when you make the purchase so we can follow your progress ... and begin to "take you seriously".

Thanks ...

Frank

First it was magical goo to paint on connections. Now it’s a magical mat to place near or under my components. No explanations, not even an attempt at one, on how either of these things accomplish anything. It’s a secret. 
Numerous posts by a handful of people gushing about great these products are and the wonderful results obtained. Over the top endorsements repeated over and over. It’s a paid for advertisement. $600 for a magical mat.
Yikes. Audiogon is getting goofier every day. Hard to take seriously anymore

“Yea, I’ve never seen a product where you are discouraged to take a picture of it, let alone there is some taboo against cutting it open to see if its a plain old piece of magnetic backed foam rubber that the seller is claiming magic properties to or a scientific breakthrough worthy of merit“

You are purposefully distorting Tim’s response to a question, in order to stir up controversy. He said that a mat that is cut up will not be eligible for a refund under the 30 day return policy. Perfectly reasonable.

Obviously, I, or anyone else who purchases a product, am free to take pictures of it, cut it up, or do whatever else I want to with it.

Geoff-The High Fidelity cables do exactly what you think of magnets added to cables, they increase the noise and distortion.  The former proud owner of them complained that his system lacked smoothness.  When I heard it, it sounded like garbage coming our of the AvantGarde Trios and 3 pairs of Basshorns.  All the instruments were like in bass relief, outlined but lacking in body with disjointed frequency range (separate lows, highs, mids).  After installing a more conventional (but an extremely elaborate and patented) set of speaker, A/C and IC cabling, his audio system sounded really enjoyable.  

I use a Walker Talisman to demagnetize my CDs and LPs every time I play them. The difference between a magnetized CD and a Talisman demagnetized CD is as different as using 6 E-mats when comparing a magnetized (several plays of a CD for instance) and a "Talismaned" demagnetized CD.  The Talisman is just a big pair of magnets but works like a powered tape demagnetizer unit, but is non-powered, easy to hold and use and small item.   I highly recommend it. 

I also have an Acoustic Revive RD1 which does a so-so job and which I purchased prior to the Talisman.  

Otherwise, the tiny group of magnets I use in inconspicuous locations use a special metal which interacts with it.  I doubt that it actually magnetizes the surfaces but probably does the opposite to great effect.  The proof is in hearing it. 

Yea, I’ve never seen a product where you are discouraged to take a picture of it, let alone there is some taboo against cutting it open to see if its a plain old piece of magnetic backed foam rubber that the seller is claiming magic properties to or a scientific breakthrough worthy of merit.

It’s not how cheap you are. It’s what you know. 😀 For example, the induced magnetic field of large transformers is not (rpt not) good for the sound. Which is why wrapping transformers with low frequency high permeability alloy improves the sound by absorbing the magnetic field. Or for speaker magnets, high frequency high permeability alloy. By the same token it’s customary to DE-magnetize cables, CDs and LPs, not to magnetize them. Trying to use magnets to “manipulate” the sound is like shooting blanks in the dark. Magnets don’t somehow smooth the signal, reduce noise or distortion, or any such thing.

I'm certainly not going to cut open an E-mat.  However, I have tiny alnico magnets strategically placed in my system where they are away from E-mats and use a certain metal to make them work, without the metal, the magnets damage the sound.  It is also proprietary to the inventor so I can't divulge it either.

The worst use of magnets I've heard many times are High Fidelity cables.  The more expensive, the more gigantic the magnets.  They sound awful.  My friend who had an $850,000 audio system in a $500,000 dedicated room just sold $100,000 worth of H.F. cables and replaced them with GroverHuffman cables for about $5,000.  It wasn't the money, it was the sound quality.  Like night and day.  

Unless sbayne finds otherwise, the question about the E-mat having enhanced properties with the use of additional magnetism remains.  Or does it worsen the sound?

Thanks Geoff. That's what I was thinking. But no worries it will not go to waste. I'm planning a sign to warn all audio cheapskates.

Watch for me in your neighborhood in the near future.

   LP