Peeking inside a Carver Crimson 275 Tube Amplifier

I believe Bob Carver sold to Frank Malitz in 2019, and the amps I have here are from 2018 and one is hand signed by Bob as well.

@funky54 ,  You are 100% correct.  There's a big wall of ego out there that should not be excused.  I just wanted to make the point that I want to hold off on personally attacking or criticizing Bob Carver given its undisputed he does not have any control or input into the company.  Certainly we can say he knew or should have known.  But he's not the company or even apart of it.  

Actually I found four production trucks being made in 2022 making 1000hp. I knew they were out there but I didn’t know the were rare and limited runs.

Ah! Thank you.

You have freed my imagination to once again wander the empty halls of my head.

@thecarpathian edited for your peace of mind.

I'm just trying to imagine a pickup truck that has anywhere near 1000 horsepower.

Not the best analogy.

@jbhiller those are nice respectful words… but it’s not a two-way street. One man buys a top of the line loaded diesel powered $75,000 pick up truck because he really likes the looks of it and just needs to cruise to work and back and around town. To him that pick up truck checked all the boxes and he thinks it’s amazing.

another man buys the exact same model because he needs to move bulldozers across the country.

Now imagine that the manufacturer didn’t put a 1000 ftlbs of torque (edited for one’s happiness) diesel motor in the truck. No, he put a 200 ft lbs of toque four-cylinder motor in the truck.

Now I ask you, it may be a wonderfully made four-cylinder motor. It may cruise around town for the first owner just fine. But do you think anyone’s going to be impressed or praise the manufacturer or respect them as a company because for one client it could cruise around town smoothly? For the second owner it couldn’t even toe a lawn mower not to mention bulldozers? They didn’t better the market with an amazing truck. They pulled a fast one and out of greed, laughed in both owners faces. Fool me once… is the old saying.

I’ll also remind… to hide, cover over, our reply that we received was… we’ll the carver fest kits were 35 wpc versions? (Same parts and they know it) and, we’ll… that’s with one channel measured with most of the bass pulled out to meet 75 watts… hard to respect or admire a cover up. Respect is a 2-way street. Do they respect us? They think that we’ll never know the difference, we’re idiots. We’ll believe 35 watt kits and one channel measured… or they think, we won’t understand specs, just read the referrals.. that’s what matters.. meanwhile the bulldozer can’t go anywhere. The work can’t get done.

@paulbottlehead ,  You open the stuff up way more frequently than I.  So, THANK YOU.  It was a bit of a pain to do this.  I had to, incidentally, re-solder the wires linking the meter to the board.  That involved careful desoldering and patience to be clean and precise in tight spaces.  Then my OCD kicks in and I have to check everything out in the compartment.  Does this weld look good?  This could be cleaner right? 

Thank you for chiming in!  I hope the weather subsides and you get your Crimson 275 from the dealer to test. 

Don't forget!!!!  AFTER YOU TEST YOU MUST SIT AND LISTEN!

Sometimes stuff that doesn't test so hot sounds great.  I have a $300 guitar amp like that.  It'll smoke big boys with its swagger in tone.  

Keep us posted too Sir!! We welcome you here in the land of subjective, compulsive, and irrational audiophiles. :)

So many great comments here Team. Thank you.

I’m so ambivalent. Before we/I move to my/our reptilian brains and go scorched earth.... If you will allow me...

Bob Carver grew up obsessed with hifi. He was a tinkerer-turned-PhD in physics. As a boy, he reportedly showed up at McIntosh diagnostic events. These were marketing and goodwill events where McIntosh would bring its big boy engineers and semi-founders out to cities across the country inviting America to bring in their hifi kit that had ground loops, crackling pots/switches, and so on.

McIntosh would help diagnose the visitor’s product. [Don’t you wish AXPONA would have this?] I’ve heard they certainly would, without putting down other makers, explain how things could be designed better in the customer’s unit in order to avoid the customer’s issue altogether. Kind of cool. They would also service Mac stuff at these events. They traveled the US. Very different than our world today where brick and mortar is dead, and I just buy crap  because I like to play with it and it gives me an excuse to hear more beautiful music.

At any rate, Bob Carver would (again reportedly) show up to these events on occasion and bring things in like the others. Yet, Bob, was so out there, that he was brining in his OWN IDEAS as a teenager. He once (again reportedly by my research) brought a Maxwell House coffee can into the McIntosh weekend diagnostic event. He told them he was working out a circuit and was close to Xanadu--I’m editorializing now. :). They refused to plug it in out of concern for safety and electrical hazard. That said, they were impressed with the circuit (not the coffee can).

Bob is a human. A genius in my mind. I’m not sure how good he was in business decisions or business acumen. But, I don’t know what the standard is to define that.

I think Bob sat down with that European amp designer and felt romantic about the days of Marantz, HK, Scott, even HeathKit, and many others. Bob knew many of those in audio history. I think he created an amazing little hot rod of a product. If I had to guess, I’d bet he thought we have come so far and sometimes we get lost in the simplicity of things that made good sound.

The marketplace is better for this Crimson 275 amplifier, regardless of whether it puts out wattage of 17, 35, or 75 (or even 90 as I think Frank M. has claimed at times). It’s a cracking little device.

Look, I sold a top of the line Primaluna because I preferred this little dude. He struck a spot that my 300B couldn’t reach. This thing works.

Now, don’t get me wrong. This is not a perfect piece of gear or "the best"--whatever that is. [Do you ever believe you’ve had a "best" anything? Best pizza, lover, beer, bourbon, day off, etc...].

It’s just a little amp that likes to boogie. Does your/my other amp like to boogie? I’ve had both the boogiers and those that won’t. Enough said.

Watch, this amp will be like that girlfriend or opportunity that I let escape due to forced apathy. 😏

I posted the measurements firs to HiFi Haven, then to ASR, and I am happy to answer any questions about how I performed the measurements.  It was pointed out to me by a Carver dealer that the units I have are not serialized, so I went ahead and bought a new amp which should arrive any day, and I am taking that amp (unopened) to a neutral 3rd party to be measured independently. 

I would also note that I published a subsequent review of the ZOTL-10 to HiFi Haven as well, just as another reference point.

Mostly I am here to thank JBHiller for taking the time to pull one of the cans off his output transformers.  

If you added $3-400 kin parts ,especially coupling capacitors , Vishay naked resistors , better wiring and Thst cheap Chinese crap has no business in a amp of this cost , rule of thumb as a ex Audii dealer only 25% of the cost actually goes into the build including all components, case , and packaging meaning $2500 including even tubes on a $10 k unit , that leaves very little for high quality transformer and chokes .too much greed for a lousy $300 in parts actually $200 or less dealer cost you could have had at least half way decent coupling caps like Mundorf Evo ,or clarity CSA ,that's just taking a piss in my opinion. 

Mike

👍

Charles 

Charles:

I agree wholeheartedly on both points. That post was an oblique statement which I fleshed out moments late.

Mike

@mwjones

At the end of the day, I have yet to see anyone on any forum say the amp does not sound fantastic. While it’s tough to see what may have happened, isn’t that why we do what we do in our spare time?

Two separate issues here. 1, Sound quality (Which many have confirmed). May only be capable of good sound quality into high sensitivity speakers with benign impedance load characteristics.

2, Truthful and accurate specification information (Which is seriously being scrutinize). People shouldn’t be led to believe that they’re purchasing a legitimate 75 watt per channel amplifier if they are not (And possibly getting power far below the specified 75 watts). This is wrong, plain and simple. Frank needs to provide a more thorough explanation with actual verified measurements.

Charles

funky54: exactly. Several of our forum mates now find themselves in a very uncomfortable position & empathy for them is the order of the day.

I’m very sorry @jbhiller. I feel for you. You were promised with published specs by a assumed reliable builder with a famed reputation. I believed in him too. You mentioned “The Big Room”.. I came very very close to buying two to vertically bi-amp my Alon IV speakers. 3 ohm, 86db. Can you imagine if I had bought them?

I’m sure the truth will keep surfacing. You won’t be alone. 

I posted this on the Klipsch forum and I think its holds true here as well:

At the end of the day, I have yet to see anyone on any forum say the amp does not sound fantastic. While it's tough to see what may have happened, isn't that why we do what we do in our spare time? Reach for fantastic sound?

Bob should be congratulated on that, but I suspect someone will have to pay the piper for how it was marketed.

Exactly Mulveling!   That is a pretty specific benchmark it has to meet.  

I emailed Frank Malitz asking for an explanation.  

@snapsc
From the manual specs section, on power:

More than 75 Watts Per Channel, both channels driven at eight ohms, from 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 1% total harmonic distortion. Distortion decreases at lower levels.

Oh my - it spec’d the rated power at both channels driven, full musical bandwidth, and 1% THD. That doesn’t leave much room for interpretation, and it’s going to be one hell of a tall order for those little OPT’s 😬

I don't know anything about circuits or amplifier design....this is from the Carver website...take a look at pages 11-13 and their description.

https://9d0691c9-2bb0-4a51-acf2-a4e121ccc931.filesusr.com/ugd/7c4708_fe81ce14b4b54e618bcfd77c7628d241.pdf

What I can say is that I heard the 275 at the Florida Audio Expo...one year playing the KEF Blade 2's and one year playing the Amazing Line Source...and those two combos sounded pretty darn good. 

Thanks @tomic601 

@mulveling , you make good points. It's still a fine little amp.  One of the biggest reasons I purchased it was its ability to drive all sorts of speakers.  I seriously question it can drive a 4 ohm load at 75 watts even at peak power.  But, I'll leave that for the testing experts and true electrical engineers.  

@jbhiller

😥

Thanks for that, though. Now we might expect some sort of tug of war over what constitutes acceptable bandwidth at power, THD limits, and measuring setups - and how this should all filter down to single power #. It’s perhaps interesting to look back at Heathkit W5 manual from 1959 and all the wonderful measurement curves provided right in the manual (the bandwidth looks very good for a 25 Watt rated tube amp):

To be fair my VAC amps don’t exactly measure stellar either - and I enjoy them regardless.

Sad. No other words for it. Sorry for your anguish.

Jim

Also, now that I feel it’s appropriate to pile on with questions given the evidence...

Even though Frank says these amps are always sold out, they were always available at Music Direct. Just recently, Music Direct’s website started saying the product is "no longer available" --not backordered or special order or drop ships from manufacturer. Did Carver Corporation take this amp off the market in response to criticism?

Well, 

Curiosity and my love of drilling down to get to an answer got the best of me.  I took the PCB off its mounts and got to the output transformer.  I didn't not get to both OPTs, as this would be more work and I think we can assume both OPTs are the same.  I'm sorry that I didn't get to the power transformer (middle can);  this would require me to detach numerous hookup wires and for me it would be an hour's work to properly desolder and reinstall it all.  

Oh my!  I'm an idiot when it comes to posting media via Audiogon's new forum features. So, you'll have to look at the photographs here: 

They are in my virtual system.

The Crimson 275 I bought (from Music Direct) uses 15w Edcor OPTs.  UGH!!!!  

Frank Malitz, can you please explain this?  While I love the sound of this amp, this hurts my ability to pair it with less efficient speakers, hurts resale substantially, and isn't cool---UNLESS, Frank, you can get Bob Carver to issue a statement explaining how this amp can make specified output.  

Finally, if you're reading this please note:  

Before folks throw Bob under the bus, remember the following.  Bob designed this amp with another esteemed audio sage. He reportedly sold the amp and the rights to sell it to Frank Malitz and/or Carver Corporation--and Bob is not an owner of the company.  Frank told me he's a designer only.  

When Frank says Bob was angry/sad/emotional about the issues being debated on the forums concerning this amp, that may be true.  And Bob may have never intended to post faulty specs, etc.  

Frank Malitz/Carver Corporation, can you have your partners at Wyred4Sound test the output and reconcile it with your specifications for the product?  

I'm more sad than angry about this.  It's still a hopping little amp, but now I know it won't work in my big room (16 x 23 x 10 tall) with inefficient speakers.  Currently I use 102dB efficient in this space, so as I said before I had not way of knowing if this thing could power such speakers.  

This is a very sad day for me. Great amp. More than likely false advertising.  

Should I ask Music Direct for a refund? 

My guess is it’s the same parts. Don’t care if he provided a cushion in slipping in the they were 35 wpc examples or not. I bet they are exactly the same parts. Same weight still..They had Mr. Carver there approving every step, they used the same schematic under Mr. Carvers’ supervision and both tested almost exactly the same.. in other words, they assembled things correctly. It’s a scapegoat replay saying the science was bad and they weren’t wirde4sound manufactured.. look at the back peddling already.. advertised as 75 wpc not its 75w for one channel but only measured without much bass… WHAT? I really don’t need any more reply or lies. The amp is a fraud. Maybe its an ok sounding 17 wpc amp. But it’s missing 4.5 X the power. Like that’s ok? It’s like saying “I brought $1000 of the $5000 I owe you, but you’re cool with that right?”

@funky54, Yes, I do think they need to just get to it and explain more about the transformers and testing. 

I have half a mind to open mine up to inspect the transformer situation.  

When will the sloppy guys at ASR be testing a legit one with a serial number?  They seemed to indicate that was underway and then they went silent.  

So our answer is.. “here’s referrals that say it sounds great” and “we measured 75 to 90..” That isn’t proof. Stats should be provable. If I’m a huge heel, if I just don’t get it, ok. I’m not the brightest bulb, but I’d like to be shown how 75 watts per channel are consistently put out by this amp.

Then I’ll know I over reacted. I’d be the first one to say theres egg on my face. 

@jbhiller, I enjoy this thread. I would use a hot glue approach ( I use clear door and window caulk ) to quiet down the mechanical properties of the cap and the mounting. These caulks have a sound, by brand, and of course, the amount used. Enjoy ! Always, MrD

Thank you for chiming in Frank.

It looks like that ASR folks could have been more scientific in ensuring they were testing an actual amplifier built in California by Wyred4Sound.

Now, this still leaves open the issue, what JJSS and Atmas-Phere are asking, how it is possible to get this output with so little weight?

I really don’t want to ship mine to ASR to test. I also don’t want to open it up and take it apart to expose the transformers. I’m curious, but not that curious, as I know from working on this amp that you have to disassemble so much to get to trans covers off.

Hello Frank,

The curiosity centers on how is 75 watts of power derived from the lightweight diminutive transformers?

Charles

i am an owner of your carver 275 amp, actually like it alot, sounds very nice, wrote previously about my experience listening to it, which i enjoyed

my speakers are fairly efficient and not a hard load (spendor sp100’s at 89 db.w.m and 8 ohms) so my listening to music does not tax the amp and ask it for big power, even if it makes 15-20 legit watts it could still make good music in my setup

that said, i have also been kinda curious as to how the amp with its light weight (and thus small output trannies) would do a legit 75 wpc into real loads (or even an 8 ohm test load)

as a point of direct comparison, my audio research reference 75 is also rated at 75 wpc, also runs 4x kt120 power tubes, and it weighs 49 lbs... open the top, the sizable output transformers are right there looking back at you

"it just gets distorted at lower frequencies, probably leading to "punchy" bass. And Bob argues that most have subwoofers and won't be using them below 80."

Does this really help?

All anyone wants to see is the transformer & its label...

Hello everyone,

In our three labs, we all get around 75 watts @ 1% or less, 90 @ 2%, etc. 

From Jordon Gerber, ex-partner, degreed physicist and co-founder: The units are about 75 to 90 watts depending on the measurement technique. . I kept a record of every unit. The power drops at low frequencies but given the way they slam with Kef Blade IIs, the innovative towers from SpeakerLab, and Wilsons is impressive

Hello Frank,

The curiosity centers on how is 75 watts of power derived from the lightweight diminutive transformers?

Charles 

So you need to publish a spec you hold yourselves to and communicate to your potential and existing customers. This isn’t car audio. So what i am hearing is 75 1 channel driven  from > 80 hz to x at < 2% THD…. I would have Atkinson measure it for you. My two cents.

Jim

Hello everyone,

In our three labs, we all get around 75 watts @ 1% or less, 90 @ 2%, etc. 

From Jordon Gerber, ex-partner, degreed physicist and co-founder: The units are about 75 to 90 watts depending on the measurement technique. . I kept a record of every unit. The power drops at low frequencies but given the way they slam with Kef Blade IIs, the innovative towers from SpeakerLab, and Wilsons is impressive.

 From Edward Suver (our WA tech support, QC and manufacturing supervisor (we have production and QC supervisors in CA as well): That's a crazy review.  The amps actually put out 90w or so at 1k into 8ohms, one channel, with .6% distortion. Every one if them made on my watch was tested and confirmed to work. Maybe 2 or 3 in 100 put out maybe 80 to 85w at that distortion, don't know why though. They put out clean 90W down to 80Hz, and distort more as it goes down, due to the lack of steel in the output transformers. When Bob initially tested it, the crazy thing is that nobody minded it. Reviews confirm that. The frequency response is flat, it just gets distorted at lower frequencies, probably leading to "punchy" bass. And Bob argues that most have subwoofers and won't be using them below 80. For the output impedance, Bob wanted 1.7 ohm, and they usually measured 1.5 to 1.6. Never 2.5 or some BS.

From Speakerlab owner: "We've solidified our booth plan and will be premiering our Super SevenT-c's (the symmetrical tower version of our Super Sevens) powered by Bob Carver Crimson 350 monoblocks, and our Point2's powered by the new Bob Carver 275 Stereo amp. Source will be a Wolf Audio server run through a Mytek Brooklyn DAC, all wired with Kimber Kable Ascent and Base cables. Come see us next week at RMAF, room 2018!"

From Joe Parvey, owner, Wolf Audio Systems: "We almost always partner with Frank at shows. Their 350s and 275s outperform anything close in price. We sell them at our retail location.".

From Ken Kessler (the dean of British reviewers): "Wonderful; bought one for myself and I'm not selling it."

From Geoff Poor of Glenn Poor's AV--the largest BAT dealer in the world and the largest Wilson dealer in the Midwest. Geoff has consulted and worked with some of the most respected names in audio - Niro Nakamichi, Yamaha, MRC, Sony, & more - and in 1992, he was one of the founders of Dunlavy Audio Labs. In the spring of 1995, he left Dunlavy to become a partner at Balanced Audio Technology - a company he helped launch at the 1995 CES.: "

"Since we began showing his ALS (Amazing Line Source) loudspeaker system and his incredible 350 watt all-tube Raven mono-block amplifiers, the interest in Bob and his products has exploded. Both the ALS system ($18,500 with powered subwoofer) and the Raven mono-blocks ($9500/pair) represent incredible values - especially since they're built here in the United States. Another factor in their great value is the fact they are virtually bullet proof! It's so cool to be able to sell a high power, all tube system that is totally reliable.  To this date, we have experienced 100% reliability, and, based on Bob's design, the tube life expectancy is so long that the tubes and the mono-blocks are actually warrantied for 15 years!    

What if Bob could make a less powerful, and even more affordable, stereo version of the mono's?  Well, guess what?  He has, and we now have his new Crimson 275 playing in the same room as the Raven mono-blocks.  

The Crimson 275 is beautiful - looking and sounding - and is selling for only $2,750!  Using the same Tung-Sol KT-120 power tubes as the Raven mono's,  the same tube-saving "DC Restorer" circuit (that prolongs tube life by decades), the 75 watt/channel Crimson 275 is a genuine breath of fresh air in a world where most American-made electronics are simply too expensive for most of us.  The new stereo Crimson 275 is warrantied (tubes and all) for 5 years! It seems too good to be true, but it's not.  The Bob Carver Crimson 275 is a great amp!  And that's the truth!"

I'm hoping Bob will reply but he's pretty disappointed that no one from the blog called to discuss this. First time I've seen him angry. They seem to be $600 carver 37-watt Carverfest kits made by Jordon. He made 65 kits but we never manufactured them for sale to the public.

Remember we guarantee it will sound better than what you have or you get a full refund (subject to dealer policies on time frame, etc) and we've never had one returned. We've also never been able to keep up with demand. We may need a second warehouse! I'm meeting with Bob to discuss this on Thursday (two days from now).

Frank Malitz VP/Co-Founder

The Bob Carver Co.

847-668-4519

I agree Charles1Dad!

@fmalitz , we are waiting with bated breath!

Frank Malik (owner of Carver Corp) said he will provide responses to some of the questions raised in the forums about the amp. And so we wait

I hope he follows through and clearly explains the method for how the amplifier rated a 75 watt output. People deserve the facts.

Charles

Keeping me laughing and having fun tomic601!  Thank you!

Another explanation is they subcontracted the writing of the spec sheet to Raven ????

Jim

But…  my 40 wpc 1961 MC240 w 6L6 has some of the highest bandwidth transformer Mac ever made and it weighs a beefy 50 lbs , my Roger Modjeski ( RIP ) RM.9 puts out 100 wpc at 62#, so I remain highly doubtful of the Crimson claim…

Jim

call me Deacon Blues

Rather than take it apart it’s not that difficult to test power, distortion and bandwidth… maybe it makes 75 wpc at 1-2 kHz w 5% THD

like most 300 b amps ( this is a joke… calm down )

phase error tells about bandwidth 

Oh, Ralph, I'll think about opening it up again.  I'd have to remove all the guts to get to the trannies.  Not something I'm keen on doing, but I could....

Ralph!  Always great to hear from you. I've learned much from you over the years and, from what I can tell from due diligence, you have yet to steer me wrong. 

As far as the little birdie, I contacted Frank Malitz by email letting him know folks were really hitting him and the company hard with questions (some very viable and meritorious) and accusations (some legal, etc.).  For full disclaimer, I do not work for Frank, Bob Carver, or have any affiliation with any of them. Yet I do know Frank "virtually" so to speak. I'm just as curious as anyone on this subject. 

Mine weighs 21 lbs, likely from the numerous caps I put in that dwarf the original Suntan el cheapo caps.  

I do have efficient speakers so I'm not a good gauge of how powerful it is.  It does sound great. 

Ralph, it may be time for me to buy your S30!  It seems like it would be a match in heaven for Cornwall IVs. 

@atmasphere 

the amp weighs 19.4 lbs by my scale, with no ac cord attached, tubes in place

here is the asr thread, ralph, it is long, jim clark responds on pg 6, and the conversation ensues from there, with photos from carverfest where kits were distributed

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/carver-crimson-275-measurements.29271/

doesn't explain the magic of a 20 lb amp making 75 wpc, but there is the info

A little birdie told me that the amps subject of ASR’s testing were, in fact, $600 kit amps--differing in quality from actual units sold with serial numbers.

@jbhiller Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I’ve been in the industry for about 47 years. @mulveling has an excellent point, one which I’ve also found troubling. I’m a big fan of the Harmon Kardon Citation 2 which is a stereo 60W/channel amplifier. It weighs about 3 times more. But its made of the same materials. We make a 60 watt monoblock amp that lacks the weight of an output transformer and it weighs about 25 pounds while employing an aluminum chassis.

IMO something doesn’t add up. Put plainly, prior to the Carver amp, no stereo or monoblock tube amps capable of 75 watts that weighed so little were ever made! Since this spec comes from the Carver website: https://www.bobcarvercorp.com/copy-of-crimson-raven-features-spec

I’m inclined to think one of two things. (Using Occam’s Razor...); one explanation is that the weight is a typo. The other explanation, the weight is correct, requires too many other things (some quite wild) such that the answer is for too complex to be correct.

The problem here is that a 19 pound amp would also very coincidentally be about the same weight as a tube amp capable of about 17 watts per channel. I don’t like it when coincidences like that pop up- it makes me think something is fishy.

You are in a position to shed some light on this, and apparently possess the required skills to do what needs to be done, as evidenced by the work you talked about prior on this thread.

I’ve become quite curious and am holding all explanations in abeyance. Could you weigh your amplifier and relay to us that value? Could you remove the output transformer cover and show us what the output transformer looks like? If the ASR review is not of the same amp they are doing a disservice IMO.

Yes, let's see how it plays out.  I may even open mine up to take a look.  It's tough to get into the transformer covers as you have to remove the circuit boards completely, which is a PIA!  

The amp does sound great.  I had it side by side with a Primaluna HP Integrated and it sounded better to me.  I was quite familiar with the Primaluna too.  

Before all this controversy, I posted (above) about how some of the parts quality was great and other parts were cheap stuff that I wouldn't put into anything.  

@mulveling you are correct in that some moderate to low power amps sound awesome and that's what matters.  I also agree that if the Carver Corporation made material misrepresentations about the amplfier's capabilities that would not be acceptable. 

Frank Malik (owner of Carver Corp) said he will provide responses to some of the questions raised in the forums about the amp.  And so we wait....

Sure that’s cool, now all Carver has to do is explain how 19 lbs of tube amp from his factory breaks the laws of physics to drive an honest 75 Watts per side 😂

It will definitely involve "magic transformers". I guess they didn't have the magic ones on hand for Carver fest 😥

Kinda silly.. doesn’t take an engineer to look up the transformer part number and see it’s only rated for 15 watts. . Doesn’t take an engineer to measure output at only 15 to 17 watts per channel.. pick on science nerds all you want. 

Well, it doesn't take an engineer to throw out all of ASR's testing and your conclusions because the amps in question are not shown to be actual amps built by Wyred4Sound for the Carver Corporation.  The logic above and at ASR is dime store at best.  But, hey, if it turns out Carver puts a 15w OPT from Edcor in its amps and they cannot actually come close to spec, then yes that's a problem. 

It's clear folks are assuming what they seek to prove.  I'm not an engineer--I'm a lawyer.  Such conclusions would never make it into the record from a law perspective (which is a way lower threshold than scientific method).  Think about that.   Hey, this vacuum cleaner is defective Judge and killed my wife.  My expert says its wiring was faulty.  Judge:  But you cannot say the vacuum actually came of the manufacturer's line.  You can't cite to a bona fide serial number on the vacuum. 

I will say, however, Frank Malik should step up and explain this away (if he can) as folks are coming with pitchforks for his brand. 

Modjeski like Carver a genius…

Yes, they both are! Good points Tomic 

I used to play around with vintage tube amps. Lovely sounding amps, in the range of 20 - 35 Watts. With 90dB speakers, an honest 20 Watts is plenty to drive them quite loud for LOTS of music. It'll even sound very pleasing, too - good to the last Watt, so to speak. In an intimate setting, with a controlled playlist (lots of Krall etc) you may never want for power. The could even play dynamically compressed rock recordings very loud (and they weighed more than the Carver, btw). But it would run out of power in a hurry once you started cranking more dynamic material. 

Modern push/pull amps with KT120 are SUPPOSED to give you all the power and overhead you need, at meaningfully low distortion levels, with a good dose of the tube sound if not the full boat E84/6L6/EL34 "sweetness".