Peeking inside a Carver Crimson 275 Tube Amplifier

Many years ago, I built a pair of single-ended 845 monoblocks for a friend.  He uses them with some old Gallo towers (remember those?)  By any technical measure they shouldn't have worked--but they do, and he still uses them with great pleasure.  No less than David Berning actually paid me a compliment on the amps.  So there are anomalies in this world of audio.

I suspect this is  the result of a robust power supply  and very good quality output transformers. Always seems the common denominator for well performing SET/tube amplifiers. 

Charles 

@jbhiller 

Why is Jim Clark, a dealer, defending the product, but there are circuitous and scant responses from Frank Malitz, Wyred4Sound, and even Bob Carver?  

I questioned the build quality on certain areas, as a hobbyist.  Now, it is more than confirmed that there are multiple more questionable things going on, and the marketing of the product is totally wrong and misleading. 

Absolutely +1.

Charles 

Does 60W at 1% THD/1kHz matter when you're looking at single digit power at 1% THD above 5kHz and down in the bass?

We know the rational answer 

Charles 

The Carver amplifier manufacturer should simply come forward and revise their power outage specifications. Present what is accurate and factual.

Charles

I’m bothered by the view point that we should just gloss over the big covers over little 15w trannies or it making less than 25% of what its advertised to make because a few can still enjoy it with super efficient speakers in little rooms. 

Who is glossing over anything? Responses on this thread have been virtually unanimous in condemning the misrepresentation of amplifier output power? Even those who own/like the amplifier have been openly critical. 

Charles 

can o worms is right

holy moly

Yep! ASR crowd will tear this apart.

Charles 

@jbhiller 

The takeaway was supposed to be.... Why use Suntan at $.80 a cap?  Could they not use a better quality cap?  I mean what are you saving by using it versus a Wima or Vishay?  $5-10 per amp?

Fair and intelligent question , ×hat are you really saving in cost?

Charles 

By all accounts the Carver Crimson 275 is a very good sounding amplifier. They should have just marketed as a low-moderate power tube amplifier with high quality sound that would a terrific match with appropriate easy load impedance speakers. What’s wrong with that tactic ?

There’s certainly a market niche for this type of amplifier. Put emphasis on watt quality as opposed to watt quantity.  It seems so silly and unethical to claim a power rating it apparently is not simply capable of achieving. An otherwise good sounding amplifier that unfortunately becomes fodder for the measurement crowd to pick apart and ridicule. A very avoidable situation.

Charles

Mike

👍

Charles 

@mwjones

At the end of the day, I have yet to see anyone on any forum say the amp does not sound fantastic. While it’s tough to see what may have happened, isn’t that why we do what we do in our spare time?

Two separate issues here. 1, Sound quality (Which many have confirmed). May only be capable of good sound quality into high sensitivity speakers with benign impedance load characteristics.

2, Truthful and accurate specification information (Which is seriously being scrutinize). People shouldn’t be led to believe that they’re purchasing a legitimate 75 watt per channel amplifier if they are not (And possibly getting power far below the specified 75 watts). This is wrong, plain and simple. Frank needs to provide a more thorough explanation with actual verified measurements.

Charles

Hello everyone,

In our three labs, we all get around 75 watts @ 1% or less, 90 @ 2%, etc. 

From Jordon Gerber, ex-partner, degreed physicist and co-founder: The units are about 75 to 90 watts depending on the measurement technique. . I kept a record of every unit. The power drops at low frequencies but given the way they slam with Kef Blade IIs, the innovative towers from SpeakerLab, and Wilsons is impressive

Hello Frank,

The curiosity centers on how is 75 watts of power derived from the lightweight diminutive transformers?

Charles 

Frank Malik (owner of Carver Corp) said he will provide responses to some of the questions raised in the forums about the amp. And so we wait

I hope he follows through and clearly explains the method for how the amplifier rated a 75 watt output. People deserve the facts.

Charles

@mulveling

These amps might well sound good, but it’s looking more and more like they should have been spec’d at a much, MUCH lower power. Now where’s the value? Plenty of low power vintage amps that sound wonderful. EL84, 6L6, and EL34 tubes are hard to make sound bad.

I’m not disagreeing with you, perhaps the specs are inflated and I do not support that. The OP and others posting here say it’s a very good sounding amplifier, to me that means something. ASR seems to care little (If any) about how a product sounds. What do you hear? That’s the essential question.

Two points, 

If you're going to test a component,  ensure you have the authentic model.

At the end of the day the sound quality is the most important parameter for an audio component. It's being purchased to reproduce music, so presumably you care how it sounds, No?

Charles 

For the love of all things sacred....If you’re going to test things "scientifically" can you at least (a) buy the unit from a licensed dealer; (b) note the serial number(s); (c) make sure you know what you are talking about before posting alleged scientific conclusions.

What’s sad to me is that after reading all 13 pages of the ASR forum thread on their uncovering of "fraud", the confidence in their opinions never budges--even after a reputable dealer chimed in to clear some things up.

Sad (And regrettable)? Yes.

Surprising? No.

I’ve visited that site in the past and was very disappointed with the content quality. They can’t even be thorough enough to be sure they have a true representative Carver amplifier. Yet can natter incessantly about conclusions. Real scientific method being practiced over there. I think not.

Charles