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Pass Labs
$85.000 & 65.000 Amps The extreme high gone nuts
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"Any post having to do with politcs or relgion should be removed (including mine) ASAP." Shall we also remove any post having to do with spelling? 😀 Well, for one thing history and in particular discussion of war is not like discussing politics and religion. It’s history. I think it’s worth discussing since there is quite a bit of confusion, two use a word, about how many causalties of war there actually are. The initial post that assumed most wars had only 25,000 to 50,000 deaths is quite misinformed. Even the current civil war in Syria has killed at least 250,000, if not many more. The American Civil war resulted in deaths of 2% of the entire population or 600,000. In fact there were NO wars EVER in history where the casualties were as low as 25,000 to 50,000. Vietnam 2 million, Afghanistan 2 million. World War I was 20,000,000. Napoleanic wars 5 million. Sino Japanese War during WWII 23,000,000. here is the wiki page for deaths according to war, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll |
@onhwy61, "that is because "History" is written by the winners." (as jmcgrogan2 correctly noted). Everyone remembers the 2 most important battles of the Revolutionary War: Yorktown and Saratoga....which is fine except there were actually 4: Yorktown Saratoga in the North and Cowpens and Kings Mountain in the South. So why, when asked, does no one remember the last 2?? Because the North won the Civil War and they wrote all the history books. |
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"as of now looks like the South will win ." Reading into your perspective that people in the South and those in many other parts of the country are "racist" whether through personal experience or being "carefully taught" Schubert I would only say that I personally believe things go in cycles, American’s "one brief shining moment" of the Camelot era is coming to a close or maybe has a while back. To gain a good political base in these times and perhaps all times, all one needs is to connect the target audience to a narrative to distract them from the real issues. It seems things go in cycles to me. Morality to most folks is based on their personal perspective or views. This is the reason why personal emphathy towards ALL regardless of differences can be the only foundation to change a specific way of thinking. For some it has to get personal first. I don’t believe we’ve arrived at that place YET but it’s coming for sure. Enough of the politics and back to the music! |
Does Nelson pass have anything to do with pass labs now? I didn’t think so. I consider him One of the good guys who gives back to the DIY community, not one of these con artists who is trying to make millions on fancy caseworkIf one tries to make a really good amp in a cheap chassis, the people who can afford it 10x over, never buy it. If one makes a mediocre amplifier in an expensive chassis, people buy it. The scenario you are asking for is the way to reach the lowest level of sales, with the lowest level of return, the lowest level of dealer support, and the lowest percentage of customers in the market. Sad but true. Not a 100% true all the time, but if one wants to start a company and make good enough coin to stay in the game... what you propose is a good way to die off real real quick. One can only pull this stunt off, when they already have a reputation. But, if having such a reputation, one way to burn your dealership model down to the ground, is to introduce a product that is fabulous sounding in a cheap chassis, with a commensurate lower price. The customers are buying into exclusivity, and low priced items from the same company...simply will not do. Don’t get me wrong, I’d prefer things go the way you seem to desire things to go. But as a marketing model, it generally goes bust pretty quick. Isn't that just a tad insane? People are strange.... |
+ 1 Teo. The behavior and buying patterns of many in High End audio support/confirm your observation. It seems in some circles if an audio product is very affordable yet Charles |
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I have never climbed a golden stair case nor have I ever, or will I ever audition a $80,000 dollar amp or $100,000 set of speakers. I can say though, that I have (after many hours of listening and comparing and within the limits of my budget) a system that sounds very nice in my environment playing the kinds of music I enjoy. It's a pleasure to know there are still a few very good US, Canadian and European companies that still produce some very fine, equipment at a reasonable cost and maintain a high level of customer service for us common folk. Jim |
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I would imagine that the price of some of the Pass Labs amps might be more affordable if they did away with those meters. I sometimes wonder if Pass Labs gets a "pass" when it comes to how often there gear measures up short of their own specs when tested by Stereophile. I would have thought that at the asking prices that meeting specs would be the least that sould be expected. |
I think meters should be required on all power amps as an esthetic thing, and to show that solid state amps aren't dead (I prefer tube amps as they glow…they at least "look" alive). Also, in spite of how THEIR amps measure, over the years I've heard Pass gear in many systems that sounded outstandingly musical, and the First Watt stuff Nelson has come up with more recently is brilliant. |
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Pass was my first real high-end amp that I imported from US. Despite it was used with no warranty, Nelson Pass himself answered my questions and assisted me with everything via email. I´ve had many amps (some very noble brands and expensive) but in my experience you can`t find a power amp much better than Pass, no matter the price. Nelson Pass is my all time favorite and he deserves our highest respect! |
I personally could never afford any expensive audio product, but I sure am glad there are people out there that can. It wasn't that long ago, that I could not afford a $10,000+ 42 inch plasma TV. They were for rich people. I remember hearing an Audio Research Classic 60, Bryston, Levenson, and Mac but it was way more than I could afford. Now I can afford a 65 inch, TV because there were enough rich people buying them, that the technology got better and the price got lower. As for audio equipment, I can easily afford the Classic 60 but unlike TV's the price of really good audio gear has gone thru the roof and yes, so has the sound quality. Thankfully over time, the price will trickle down on good used audio gear. Hopefully I will be able to afford some better sounding equipment. I think I can understand the $65,000 amp but I still have trouble with $5,000+ for 3 feet of speaker wire, power cord or innerconnects. |
I have listened to First-Watt J2 and SIT-2 in comparison on my system with fairly-efficient speakers (Living-Voice OBX-RW 6-ohms 93-db) and both are very good sounding amps. The SIT-2 IMHO is the best sounding solid-state amp I've ever heard on my system. The J2 is very good, but the SIT-2 is more articulate, and the music is more realistic. As "you're there" with female vocals ! If you have efficient speakers (I'd say a true 93-db and up) and want some of the best sound, I'd go with SIT-2, with the J2 right behind it. I have two SIT-2's bi-amping my Living-Voice OBX-RW's and the sound is terrific. Nelson Pass has done a terrific job with his First-Watt products and is constantly in design/testing mode improving on this line constantly. If you want to buy, check out Reno Hi-Fi. They're where I bought my First-Watt amps and great to work with. Also, 6-Moons has done some articles on both of these and other First-Watt amps... |
juke4u, I`m not a rich at all.......:=)) The way to true S.O.T.A audio lays not only in money. My tip is: Demo as much as you can, then choose your brands/house sound, then try pick a top of the line classic pieces of these (newer=usually lesser quality/sound for same MSRP) and buy used from some credible seller here or in eBay. P.S. The wire/cable thing is crazily over-hyped. Leave these for last! If everything else is already done and you like to buy a better cables then first play attention to the quality of connectors, conductor materials, AWG, etc., not for a brand name or fancy look. Some research and simple DIY may save you a grands here, if constructing a very top end cables. Just my 2c |
Demo as much as you can. Have your crooked, worthless dealer work hard for your hopeful business, have him loan you all his equipment for extended periods. Buy used on this and other sites. Then complain about lack of "brick and mortar" shops. The 70s and 80s were great times for hardware and software. I have more than enough of both. Might need to start downsizing 5-10 years out. Trying to keep a notebook for my wife so she some good $ for the equipment and records. |
I’m going to skirt the political aspects of this and focus for a minute on the merits. Every time there is a post about some new uber-price for a piece of gear- whether it is cable, hardware or whatever- i think you get the predictable assortment of reactions, from "crazy" to "not so crazy if you have the means." In my experience, it’s not only all relative, but a matter of priorities. I have a friend who is truly wealthy. He buys vintage Ferrari racing cars. But, if he flies, he goes coach; he wears Gap pants, and I doubt you catch him spending $400 on a shirt. Could he afford it? Sure. He doesn’t see the value in it. All of us, at some point in life, should have the experience of enjoying the "best" of something, if only to understand that it often isn’t always that much better. I don’t begrudge anybody the right to spend as they see fit. It doesn’t impact me (I don’t think this pricing affects the more every day equipment). If you find value you what you are seeking out, who’s to argue? Enjoy what you can while you can. |
Amen, Bill. Musicians eat cheap so they can buy expensive vintage instruments. It’s unfortunate, but a lot of them listen to music on computers these days, and I don’t mean hirez digital streaming. It is because music is SO important to us that we spend what we do on the equipment to reproduce it well in our homes. How good a hi-fi a guy had was at one time a good indicator of how much music meant to him. Why then do musicians almost universally have terrible hi-fis? 1- They’re poor. In the early 70’s Paul McCartney was paying his drummer in Wings Denny Seiwell $150 a week. 2- Musicians are thinking more about their own music than that of their contemporaries, not listening to recorded music nearly as much as you would think. THAT was done when they were younger, learning how to play. 3- Musician’s don’t expect reproduced sound to even remotely approach live sound. And since few of them have ever heard a really good system (since few of them or their peers have one), they don’t know how much better recorded music can sound through good gear. |
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Like many other manufacturers, Pass Labs has entry level and Higher priced equipment. I own the xa30.8 amp and xp10 preamp by Pass. Now they are not cheap by any means but they are not in the lead of the op's note. as others have stated, Nelson's First Watt can be had for even less cash. IMO, the XA-30.8 far exceeded my expectations and will last me the rest of my life. Also, Nelson spend a fair amount of time answering my questions and helping me match an amp for my other equipment. I can not say that of too many "creators" in this business. . |
stfoth---exactly correct. How could McCartney have been poor?! He’s by far the richest of The Beatles. But he knew he didn’t have to pay his band well---he could get anyone to play for him, no matter how low the pay, just for the exposure to a mass audience that would result from doing so, to increase one’s visibility, to make a name for oneself. Denny Seiwell came from the L.A. studios (as did his current drummer, the great Abe Laboriel, Jr.) and Jazz clubs, to which he returned after leaving Paul’s employ. And you too are right, schubert. I should have qualified musicians with the adjectives Rock, Blues, and Country. Jazz and Classical guys are a whole ’nother matter! |
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