Paradigm Persona series

I know that Gryphon will stop a dealer from selling their gear if they discount it.  I know that most will only buy 'discounted' gear.  In the end, that's what the real price of the gear is.  20% off gear is a lot for a company to give.  It's very rare that any high end company to offer that type of discount from the company.  


What I have read you can trade in any speaker regardless of brand or size will get you 20%.  That's 20% off the MSRP and to ME devalues the product.  I"m happy for those who get great deals on audio.  Enjoy the music!! :). 

@nabcs agree I've always have received 15-20% off and as much as 25% off all brands. I've had some dealers only offer 5% so I've left and bought the same gear at the 20% discount. Just like buying cars there are many dealers ready to negotiate. 

I submit there is a difference between a dealer providing discounts and a company. I know dealers that discount prestigious brands, but I don't recall any prestigious brands announcing a discount on a current product. 

ctsooner...please tell me which companies do not make discounts ... because in 30 years in this hobby I have always achieved at least 20% in prestigious brands (Rockport, Magico, Sonus Faber, etc.)...and Paradigm is not different.

contuzzi286 posts02-24-2019 3:56pmCtsooner: it’s a trade in program where you trade in your old speakers.  And most dealers will give 10-15% off normally anyway.  No one is upset about it aside from you.  There’s nothing unusual about something being on a promotion.  Every single industry does it.  

Where did I say I was upset over it?  Just asked a question.  I'm happy for those who are getting great discounts, but to me it devalues the products.  They should just price them fairly to begin with.  Plenty of companies (in audio) don't allow dealers to discount and won't offer promotions.  I've seen dealers loose lines over this.

Seems like a savvy buyer may be able to get 30-35% off since the dealers are not taking the hit on the 20% or at least I would assume they are not. 

Ctsooner: it’s a trade in program where you trade in your old speakers.  And most dealers will give 10-15% off normally anyway.  No one is upset about it aside from you.  There’s nothing unusual about something being on a promotion.  Every single industry does it.  

Why would any manufacture give 20% off an expensive speaker and ruin it for those who purchase in good faith at list?

With the 20% off sale going on I could see a dealer stretching to like $26k or something though.

I know what the dealer cost is.  Nobody is going to go to $20K.

The persona 9h for $20k if it could be done could be the solution. 1400 watts with 4 bass drivers have me salivating... Don’t they have ARC built in? I would jump on it. I can't let a white coat lab rat tell me what I like better because a tweeter does or doesn't have a waveguide there's so much more to the final design and in my room wide dispersion speakers soundstage like crap, everything else being equal if a flat response was all it took as cheap as digital processing is these days all speakers would sound the same. I sold my salon 2's to a gent that's driving them with a pair of mc 601's and he says they put them into protection! The 9h would rock with my puny little integrated.

I copied and pasted from the $20k thread where another poser suggested with the sale going on til the end of the month a pair of 9h for $20k might not be out of the realm of possibility...

Interesting take on your friends room. I also have a medium sized rectangular room downstairs that is currently my toddlers play area. That room has a 25 foot ceiling and would likely sound rather great with the KEF Blade. Just have to wait a few years to test out that theory.

@yyzsantabarbara  Thanks again for all this info.  I would love to audition the Vivid line but alas again I have to travel from Atlanta to another major city to find those.  I heard the A3 a few days ago but it was in a tiny room, poorly setup.  They're moving those speakers into a large room.  They do have good electronics on everything they sell, primarily VAC tube gear.  After listening this morning I've played with placement a little bit but I'm finding the Persona's produce a more diffuse sound field, less localization and large images of individual instruments than the Thiels.  Part of that may be my room...I'm convinced that a very large rectangular room, placement of large floor standers on the long side, well well away from side walls and 3-4 feet from the back wall is the ideal positioning for imaging/soundstaging.  The most incredible depth and image localization I've heard anywhere -- don't laugh -- is on a system using JBL M2 monitors powered by huge Crown industrial digital amps which are kept in another room.  I rolled my eyes when I first saw this system but the imaging and depth of individual instruments in the soundfield and the localization of properly sized (small) images of individual instruments just blows everything else out of the water that I've heard.  Not sure how much of this friend's success is due to his large rectangular room with high ceilings but its really astonishing.  I don't have the desire to go that route, but it is what it is.  It was amazing.  And over the 30 some odd years I've been in this hobby I've had my own assortment of high end electronics and speakers (Sound Labs(!), Martin Logans, Thiels, Magnepans, Audio Research power, preamps, dacs, etc.  Of course we're talking about several decades there.  It may sound like I change speakers every minute but I don't really.  Just looking for that last "best" speaker I can find.

The Vivid Kaya 90 which I heard reminded me a bit of the KEF Blades. That was the 3rd speaker in my list for my small space (actually the Kaya 45 would be what I would have ordered). It was a tossup between the Vivid and Persona but I started to consider cost and the side firing woofers of the Vivid in a small space and the Persona made more sense.

I forgot to added in the previous comment that I liked the Magico S3MKII much more than the Magico A3. However, the S3MKII is too big for my room.

BTW - I am not an audio historian but it seems to me that the Yamaha NS1000 was the precursor to the Paradigm Persona.

@pwhinson I have heard a ton of Magico speakers. They are rather popular out here in the West Coast. I have heard some costing $150K+ (maybe $200K+) to the A3.

I did a very long and fruitful audition of the Magico A3 with Mark Levinson gear and I was trying to figure out how to fit the A3 into my small office. During, this figuring out phase I started to look at DSP capable preamps to help fit a floor stander into a smaller space. If I could figure that out I would have bought the A3. 

However, during the DSP preamp search I stumbled onto the Persona 5F and realized that the tweeter and mid range integration was more to my style on the Persona vs the Magico A3. So I am now going to buy a Persona 3F and use with a DSP preamp.

I had not really been a fan of the Magico's, most likely related to the cost aspect of them.  I only went to listen to the A3 because I have heard the Magico S3MKII at an audio show, in 3 rooms, and I was so surprised because it was the first Magico speaker that I thought I should consider.  I also heard the Magico S5MKII at the same show with much more expensive gear than with the S3MKII and did not like it. I attributed that to the electronics. The S5MKII is supposed to just be a bigger version of the S3MKII. A few people have questioned my sanity when I said I liked the Persona over the Magico and their arguments were similar to what we are seeing on this thread.

Another speaker I was considering but had to drop it because I was told is too big for my space was the Yamaha NS5000. I spoke with a NS5000 owner in Australia who either owned the Magico S5 or his brother owned it. His feedback was that the best mid-range he has ever heard was on the Yamaha. He preferred it to the Magico. It is a shame that I cannot fit the Yamaha because it seems like a incredibly interesting speaker. All 3 drivers are made from the same material that is supposed to be faster and lighter than BE. If you want more info on this one just PM me and I will send you some contact info.

One of the biggest factors regarding a bright speaker and why many don't like them.

https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

Fletcher Munson Curve.  As I stated much earlier in this thread.  The Persona probably works better for a listener that likes low levels and likes female vocals and is more into really dissecting a recording or a speaker.

For those that like to listen louder, a bright speaker just becomes more and more bright in reality.  Because of the Fletcher-Munson curve... aka science.

Also, as you get tired / have a long listening session the perceived loudness to what you are listening to goes up... contributing to fatigue and that is why the highs stand out most.

Ultimately this is why a demo matters.  But in any system far and away your listening habits, volume you like, and room you are in, with the speaker are what matters most.

Some companies try to measure flat, pure and simple.  Some put in a more friendly listening curve.

Then - sources, amps etc.

If you desire to throw money... uber expensive cables, powercords, conditioners, etc.

I don't use zip cord, but I sure as hell wouldn't expect to transform a speaker with uber cables.  Put the money into a better speaker (for you).

There are far and away more of a difference in how a speaker sounds based on design than there is amps, pre-amps etc.  Sure, tubes etc can change the sound, by introducing different levels and types of distortion (which as we know is pleasing to the ear).

Get the speaker right, the rest will follow.  Get the wrong speaker and chase forever!

Thanks @yyzsantabarbara.  I have a friend who also liked the Blade 2 but I don't have a dealer locally who can demo it.  Have you listened to the Magico's?  They also I think meet our preferences as well as far as being very incisive, quick and detailed.  There is a dealer here in Atlanta but he only has the S1's (nonstarter...no bottom end whatsoever) and as of last Friday the A3s.  I'll be hearing the A3's once they have them properly setup hopefully Tuesday.  I'd really like to hear the S3 and S5 but I may have to go out of town to do that.  There is some urgency right now as to whether the Paradigm will be the one or be ruled out (they have a 20% off manufacturer's sale going on right now and that plus the dealer discount is significant).

@pwhinson  I had a dream last night that I had the same room as you . Unfortunately I woke up and still stuck with a crappy room.

Have you every considered the KEF Blade 2 in your space? I don't think it is as revealing as the Persona, I have not heard the 9H, only 5F. I will buy the 3F for a small space.

I bring this up because I loved the Thiel CS 3.7 and in the past I owned the much lowered end Thiel SCS4's. I see you are a Thiel fan. The only speaker sound wise and cost wise that I have liked better than the Thiel CS 3.7 is the KEF Blade. You may have the same sound preferences as me.

Ricred1 I think the point that Maplegrove is making is that there are a whole bunch of guys that jump on the "its too bright camp" while there are many others that don't make the same stink about a speaker which is rolled off and if you look at many of the measurements in Stereophile you can find many, many reference loudspeakers which have a recessed top end one really expensive loudspeaker had that and had a huge peak in the lower mid bass frequencies and that was a $125k set of loudspeakers.

We agree with you that there are a lot of great loudspeakers we sell the Kefs, the Legacys and the Dalis as our main loudspeakers lines and they are all excellent and suitable for different listeners. 

Our point about the Personas which would also apply to any of the uber high resoloution designs, like Rahido or Magico is that when you have this low a level of coloration or a driver that has uber clarity you are challenged with adding a bit of warmth somewhere in the chain.

Rivondale sounds like one of those guys who have never played with power cables or footers or tuning accessories which can alter the sound in ways that can be very beneficial in bringing out the things you are trying to accheive. 

Dep14 we apply a methodical method of tunning. We try many different brands of electronics, multiple digital front ends, cabling, power conditioners to the mix unti we get the sound we are looking for.

In the case of the Persona 3F that room has 54 different components in it is you took out the four pieces of surround sound gear and two headphone amps and a Zenith streamer that would leave you with 47 possible pieces of gear to play with from cheapie $1k integrated amplifiers up to a $30k Naim stack. we have high end intergrated amplifiers from NAD, Musical Fidelity, Micromega, Naim, Krell, Anthem, Sythesis,  as well as CJ, Cary, Anthem, Electrcompaniet and Coda separates, so we can create a very different sound depending on which particular set of gear is being played. 

For that reason alone we wanted to be able to play with some different gear for Mr. Hoffer.

You would be shocked to see how many stores just hookup what they have in one room to a set of speakers, meaning if they have ARC in that room which may sound great with a pair of  different speakers that are also in the room, that is what they play, you won't necessarily see sales guys saying we need to move in a pair of blank amplifiers from another room or change dacs or cables sometimes you do but many times you don't. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

I have a pair of Persona 9H’s in my listening room for evaluation having received them Thursday. I have to say I’m really impressed with them, and on just about everything I listen to except classical they sound very very good. The not so slight problem is that 95% of the music I listen to is classical. Re the brightness issue, I’ve attached below a link to the way they measure in room in my space after ARC’ing the built in powered subs. You can see two things here: (1) the slight rise beginning at 4K and continuing up to 10K, and (2) a small suppressed "smile" shape centered at 2K. This is somewhat consistent (although not as pronounced) with Stereophile’s measured response of the 7F the version of this speaker without the powered subs. You will notice in my room however that the tilt up is very slow and is not particularly pronounced. I would be more inclined to say that tilt up is inconsequential in my room IF your goal is flat response in this region. The slight dip centered at 2K is "almost" inconsequential as well. However I think MOST people (me included) are used to listening 3db or more DOWN at 10K, more than 6db down when compared to the Persona 9H. This is easily corrected with a couple of filters in Roon but when I do some very minor corrections in Roon I lose a good bit of the air/coherence/not sure what to call it, presence maybe?  So I’m on the fence about whether or not to keep these at the moment and will be auditioning some Magico’s Tuesday to get an idea of the Magico "house" sound as well. The speakers these are replacing are Thiel 2.4’s which are simply awesome but compress at high volumes on large scale orchestral music. The Persona’s DON’T compress at high volumes that’s for sure. I’ve only had them one full day at this point so I’ll be doing some more critical listening over the next few days. The power they bring to orchestral peaks in the low end is astonishing.  You’ll also notice the sharp dropoff in response at begins at about 13K. Initially that might look problematic but I don’t think it really is listening-wise...according to this its about 7-8 db down at 20K...again my room is pretty well damped with alot of thick wall to wall carpeting and upholstered furnishings. Here’s the link to the measurement, and a couple of photos of them being moved into my home.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yaphaka7vzc2bmv/inroomParadigm9H.jpeg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4t9h6pfk4mf7v8m/IMG_2593.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d00i6maudbymwv8/IMG_1952.JPG?dl=0

maplegrovemusic,

"Going on a forum that is discussing a speaker I don't like is a waste of time and a disservice to that company products .", but then you post, "The vandersteens sound like a blanket is covering the tweeters." I don't own Vandersteens,  but this is the hypocrisy that I'm talking about. Everyone has preferences and it's as simple as that. The Personaa are good speakers,  but there are a lot of good speakers. 

I agree with audiotroy. There are negative posters whos reference are vandersteen. Of course they will think the paradigms are bright if they use vandersteen. Night and day difference when comparing these two speakers. The vandersteens sound like a blanket is covering the tweeters

What I find so facinating is the villification of the Personas from certain posters  here,  because they have a bump in the high end vs the scores of  other high end loudspeakers which have a pronounced dip in the top end. 

So therefore a speaker which is bright is bad but a loudspeaker that has a rolled off top end is not villified or pronunced being  bad for sounding dull?

Lets remember that a high hat or cymbol crashes, if you reproduce those instruments  without having the realisim of what those instruments actually sound like and make them sound unnaturally smooth is that better reproduction? 

In terms of what benzman and a few others have said, you can add asorpative material, or use components which are warmer to tone down a speaker which is perceived as bright but how can you add detail to a speaker which is rolled off?

The sound of the Personas when setup correctly is pretty special are they for everyone don't think so, but when played with the right gear they sound more like a $20k speaker for the $10k 3F and the $35k 9H can easily compete with a $58k pair of Wilsons. 

We would also question Rivondale's testing methodology who says that is Schitt amplifier is good enough to drive the Personas, what cables were used, what source? There is so much more to setting up a world class sound system then arbittarily trying amp A with speaker B, maybe with his Schitt amplifier a dac or source change might have been required.

We would welcome anyone in the area to visit our shop and hear our setups with the Personas.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Yea, I was commenting on your finishing with aeriel 6 being all that. If a speakers bright but clean, not sibilant or spitty and the repercussion is added detail and imaging i'll put some treatments on the wall at the first reflection point and enjoy the show, but if it isn't clean the deals off. I found the personas tweeter to be clean and extended. 

Ok. Let’s all agree that the Personas are on the bright side . Numerous test show the bump in the upper registers. Easily fixable   I knew my amps and music server/dac where on the warmer side . Tube pre. Good to go. 
I just swapped out the Audience Au 24sx that where on the lean side with a cable with a little more meat
I previously had Magico S3 that where lifeless. 
Much easier to tame a little hotter speaker and still enjoy all the good things it brings than to try to liven up a boring speaker

@csmgolf 

Agreed.  Tried saying the same thing.  Amazing how defensive owners of a speaker feel.  If you like it, good on ya.   

As for Dave and Troy... well... you may have learned by now they are never wrong and can magically tune any speaker with all sorts of magic only they understand.

Or, you know, one can buy the speaker they really audition and like, and then maybe make subtle changes (which is all that in most cases is really possible) once they have them home.

I've owned really bright speakers, tried chasing with amps, sources etc.  No thanks.  Doesn't mean they are bad, in all cases someone else bought them.

I had some klipsch palladiums, they are really quite good - but too lean for me and too bright.

Drummer bought them from me, always uses a sub and LOVED CYMBALS.  For him, they were awesome.

Cmsgolf, really don’t know why you have this evangelical hatred of the Persoanas.

Audiotroy, when did I ever say that I hate the Personas? Please find it for me. I think they are a very good speaker, that is unfortunately too tipped up in the top end for me. A tipped up top end in ANY speaker is a deal breaker for me, been there and done that. At first it sounds like amazing detail and speed, but ends up in a pair of speakers sitting silent in my room because I don't want to listen. It creates listening fatigue that no tweak will fix. It may not show up in a short, controlled audition, but it will show up after a period of ownership. There are certain frequencies in the midrange and if a pair of speakers has a peak there, I don't need to hear any more. They will be checked off the list. Apparently, you and ahofer have hearing that is tuned in to different things. He thought they were bright in your shop, you said that they were absolutely not bright. In fact, two people in this thread have said the same thing about auditions in your shop. Apparently more than one person hears them differently than you, even in your shop. When people are tuned in to a certain characteristic of a system, they will always be able to tell it on any system they listen to. Whether that characteristic is bass impact, imaging, sound staging, detail, speed, brightness, etc. does not matter. Many times, one of those factors may be the most important factor to them. When you do a parlor trick to draw attention away from the inherent problem, you are not in it for the customer. Rather you are trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Or even worse, you are trying to create a stream of revenue for the next great tweak to sell that you say will solve a problem that none of those tweaks can actually fix. Again, to ahofer, buy what your ears like and can live with over the long term. If you find that to be the Personas, great. But don't get buffaloed into it. 

You name a speaker , any speaker and I can pick it apart and tell you why I do not care for it . If I like the speaker as I do the Persona , I can find no faults . One mans treasure is another mans trash . 
Going on a forum that is discussing a speaker I don't like is a waste of time and a disservice to that company products . 

If you were referring to me, I should clarify that I do not own any of the speakers I listed above. Those were just some demoed over a couple weeks. I mentioned the ones above because they all use beryllium, and I wonder if that is one of the reasons why impressions were pretty consistent for me across Paradigm Persona 3F and Focal Kanta. In addition to the above, I demoed Spendor D7, KEF LS50 / R11, Klipsch Forte III, and Focal Aria 948.

I was very interested in the Personas before I actually heard them. But they turned out to be one of my least favorite.

I do wonder how much a tipped up treble highlights the differences in recordings? I compared the 7f to the 1028be in their mutual ability to weed out the crappy recordings, nothing more. contuzzi is passionate about hifi i'll give him that. Intensity on the net can so often create assumptions that drag us off topic, but, wtf what else we got to do.
 I went in to borrow the Kanta 3's and ended spending a couple hours with the 7f. I knew right then, I think we all did that the Kanta wasn't going to cut it after that demo. I still like the Kanta 3, so ya'll don't start hating on focal. I'm trying to get flat bass down to 40 hz in my room and nothing has delivered! so the 1 arrangement I hadn't yet tried was speakers ported from front and back, but they didn't work either. I think I already said that if I trusted I could get the 7f to sound in my room like they did in the demo I would vote with my money and buy them, but I know they won't.

I think it is actually a disservice to A'Gon readers to have posts telling people who have not heard the Persona that it is bright and does not sound good.

I almost bought into that line and had ALMOST eliminated the Persona 3F from consideration for my office system (small room). They only reason I heard it was because of a fluke. I was intending to audition the Lyngdorf 2170, that gets rave reviews here on A'gon. The dealership had the Persona and Sonus Faber. I unenthusiastic-ally chose the Persona to pair with the Lyngdorf demo because I knew the Sonus Faber sound is not to my tastes. 

I have mentioned more about the audition previously but the end result is that the Lyngdorf was out and the Personsa 3F was in my top 3 for consideration.  The was after using a SimAudio 860A amp to power them via the Lyngdorf preamp section. Dealer actually said it was the best he had heard the Persona 5F. He normally demos with MAC gear.

Moral of the story FOR ME, don't take the words written here verbatim, even if it is written as a benevolent audio SERVICE. Go out and listen for yourself.

@yyzsantabarbara Yes. Nothing I said above is inconsistent with that statement, which I agree with.

All I’m saying is that one may subjectively like or even love the speaker or want to buy it to fill their need to tune and tweak, but it still measures objectively bright (see Stereophile measurements for one) and sounds subjectively bright (as confirmed by a multitude of Audiogon users) as well. That brightness is not recording-specific, but rather applies to all recordings because it is inherent in the speaker. It is a disservice to those that haven’t heard the speaker to imply otherwise.

Now that’s not my personal taste, hence I also expressed my opinions above.

@rlovendale  Ever consider that your hearing and tastes maybe different from people who like the Persona or Kanta? Most people tend to buy what they like. 

There are quite a few owners of Persona's chiming in saying how much they like the speaker. So you are basically saying to these folks that they are rather messed up, either mentally or hearing wise, to be buying the Persona.

Stay classy.

That’s a cop out. The speaker is bright. Demoing Paradigm Persona 3F and Focal Kanta No. 2, at different shops, with the same recordings, they both sound bright/harsh and uninvolving, despite the great resolution. The Paradigms were on my amp (Schiit Ragnarok). The Focals were on both McIntosh and Naim electronics (tried them two different days).

Both speakers made good recordings sound bright/OK. They both made average recordings sound horrible, and bad recordings make me want to gouge my ears out. Unfortunately, most good music isn’t recorded super well. Both speakers were also unlistenable at higher or even moderate volumes. 80 dB on my Decibel iPhone app was painful and down went the volume again.

Contrast that with the Revel F228be at the same dealer as the Focal, and they were at least listenable. None of the above speakers conveyed the emotion of the music.

Contrasting all of those with Aerial Acoustics 6T, it was no contest. Much more bass (despite the smaller bass woofer size). Made great recordings sound awesome and poor recordings sound great. You could crank them up without wincing. I was listening at 85 dB (measured with my same app mentioned above) without even realizing it. And most of all, the Aerials conveyed the emotion of the music and brought tears to my eyes. On the same songs I had been demoing with all speakers and was very sick of at the time.

One should not HAVE to tweak footers, cables and electronics in order to make a speaker listenable. One should be rewarded with additional marginal gains if they do so. The Paradigm fall in the former camp. They are inherently flawed, and folks should know that going in.

@yyzsantabarbara 

The more I listen to different setups with my 3f's the more I realize that it really is about the recording.  I have changed footers and cables and other sources (which do have a big effect) but the most important (given a speakers characteristics) seem to be the recording.  Sometimes they do sound bright and harsh and then sometimes I am completely surprised the next time I crank them up.....  strange. 

BTW....  @audiotroy   What do I have to do to get the Iso Acoustic Gaia feet on the large base of the 3f's?  Is there some sort of adaptor for the Paradigm speakers?  The large threaded feet don't fit anything. 

The personas are the only box speaker i have heard that have a treble that comes close to electrostatic speakers. Hopefully some day i will find a used pair to purchase.
I have only heard the least expensive model at rmaf a couple years ago. They were powered by the anthem separates. Didn't sound bright to these ears . 

Look what arrived at my house today.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4t9h6pfk4mf7v8m/IMG_2593.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d00i6maudbymwv8/IMG_1952.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qed8aizmaynlz69/IMG_4006.JPG?dl=0

I first heard the 5Fs in a local store but bought the 3Fs because they were in my budget at the time, 2 years ago.  I'm now trading them in for the 9Hs and should have them in a couple weeks.

I auditioned several speakers named in this thread before hearing the Personas.  I wouldn't consider these speakers bright by comparison.  They are incredibly accurate, fast and dimensional. 

Cmsgolf, really don’t know why you have this evangelical hatred of the Persoanas.

We are not so powerful as to make Mr. Hofer or anyone purchase anything from us that they don’t like, sorry not going to happen.

The reality is that many people here have heard the 3F really like them. Yes it is irksome that they do not measure flat, it is possible that the Persona’s engineers felt that many listeners rooms would be over damped and this would compensate the other thing is that with Anthem Room correction a flat response can be assured in the room.

Even without room corection we have found that the speakers are not overally bright in real rooms. We have several clients with the 3F in real apartments and homes and so far all of our clients have been absolutely thrilled with their 3Fs..

Also having studied meansurements on many other highly rated speakers many of them are highly rolled of in the top end, so you can have it both ways you can have a dip in treble or a peak either way it isn’t flat,

All loudspeakers have a sound and yes Cmgolf with the right tweeks we can add warmth to a set of speakers, footers, power cabling, software processing can totally change the sound of a loudspeaker.

Do you wonder why Vandersteen’s are often paired with Ayre? Could it be that Vandys tend to sound overally warm and Ayre is a bit on the neutral to slightly tipped side of neutral?

Mr. Hoffer can purchase whatever he likes but in fairness a quick demo of the Personas does not allow us the time to play with the variables that can change the way they sound in ways that can add additional warmth and alter their tonal balance.

Loudspeakers are like any other decision they all have their particular sound and all loudspeakers can be tuned to match a listeners perferences.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers

@ahofer I hope you end up buying something you love and can live with for the long term. I would be wary buying something that you find a fundamental flaw with, no matter how much someone may want to sell them to you. No amount of cabling, footers, or equipment will take away a 5 db bump in frequency response. Warmth is in the lower midrange, not in the treble. That is just trying to draw attention to something else, not fixing the problem. Trust your ears, not someone else’s, and make the right choice for you.

@ahofer Hope you post on what you end up getting. I always like to know what systems musicians listen with. I think I have great hearing but that does not mean I know what a musical instrument should REALLY sound like. Sounds like you would know this better.

Dear Mr. Hofer you were a pleasure to have at the shop, and demo the Kef's and the Paradigms for you.

Love to have you come back for a more extended demo where we can show you some ways of warming up the Personas with Roon and you should also listen to the new Krell K300i it is an awesome amp with the Personas. The Krell is really warm and full bodied so you might appreciate what that combo brings to the table.

Just by making a couple of changes we can add a bit more warmth to the Personas which just might make them rich enough for you.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona Dealers

1. Music
The music I brought was part high-res and part Redbook CD rips (to FLAC), all things that I think sound good on all my own systems. More importantly, I know how they sound on other systems that I own or am auditioning. Finally, it’s all my kind of music. I think this is most of it.

• Brahms Trios - Vogt/Tetszlaff DSD
• Joey Alexander, Freedom Dance (HD flac)
• Ravel quartet- Sequoia String Quartet (redbook),
• Herbie Hancock - River (redbook)
• Bantock Celtic Symphonies (redbook - this piece has weird instrumentation, which makes for a fun listening test)
• Cool - Bill Charlap Trio (redbook)
• Brahms Viola Sonatas - Kim Kashkashian/Robert Levin ECM (redbook)
• Mahler songs of a Wayfarer - Jesus Schmidt & Cincinnati Symphony (Telarc, redbook)
• Mendelssohn String Quartets - Artemis Quartet (HD FLAC)
• Beethoven Symphonies - Karajan/Berlin (1963), DG high-res remastering (HD FLAC)
  

I don’t think they are particularly bright recordings as a group. All but the Charlap and Hancock recordings have great live-recorded information that allows you to hear instrument location. As we all know, location cues tend to be higher in frequency.

2. Sound impressions
My home system resided for 25 years in a room with a Steinway baby grand and frequent viola, cello, and quartet playing. I know well what those things sound like directly in front of me. I also used to do jazz gigs in my early twenties and attended Berklee College of Music. I also think I know what a big band and small ensemble sound like. Beyond that, I make no ’golden ear’ claims.

On the speakers, the word "bright" can mean different things to different people, and my ears are only a reference for my own wallet. Frankly, I struggle with the terminology people use for speakers. "Imaging" I understand, but when people start talking about "rhythm" the musician in me wants to scream BS. So we can always disagree on one of these loose adjectives.

However, I think the three separate bench tests available on line factually establish that the Paradigms would *all else equal* have a treble boost up to 5db, +/- 15 degrees to head on, compared to many other speakers. It very neatly explains what I heard, and with three separate tests confirming this sizable bump, I accept this as factual, or as close as we are going to get.

Of course, "all else" is almost never equal, which, like a high-spirited romantic partner, is both frustrating and enchanting.

I reiterate my gratitude to Dave for letting me audition. It may take more time, but I have a day job that pays for my habit! And it may be that I need an in-home audition of some things.

It's so funny to read comments from people who regularly trash other components, get so upset that some don't prefer Paradigm Personas. There are no absolutes in audio, only preferences!  

contuzzi, it really sounds like you have all of us and dealers figured out.  Why are you hanging out with us, after all...…"It’s amazing how much “audiophiles” are psychologically influenced and don’t even realize it." and..."The brightest tv at Best Buy only looks good if you’re ignorant and know very little about picture quality."   Are you here to save us from ourselves, if that's it we kind of feel we are already doing ok and don't need saving so you can feel free to go post on the next audio board knowing we are ok now.

In my most recent speaker auditions the dealers were encouraging me to play anything from TIDAL. They were rather happy to hear me say, wow that recording sounds real bad or that recording sounded great. This was on the speakers I had come to audition, the Magico A3 and Persona 5F. Point is these guys were rather cool about demoing the speakers.

One example was the Clash "From Here to Eternity: Live" disc. I had been playing it on my car while driving to the demo and I rather enjoyed it (I love this disc in the car). When I played it on the Magico A3 it sounded awful. The dealer was rather happy to see that I could hear the bad sound via the speakers he was trying to sell me.

Bad sound because the recording was bad.

Unfortunately that makes zero sense. The brightest tv at Best Buy only looks good if you’re ignorant and know very little about picture quality.

Dealers likely play “only good music” or only their music because I’m sure many customers come in with some hot garbage that would sound bad on any speaker. I don’t know of any dealer that wants to “trick” the customer, but when someone goes into a store and says “hey do you have this *insert artist here* album?” The dealer may play some garbage remaster on Tidal which sounds like trash compared to the CD master the guy has at home. That’s the kind of stuff I’d think they’re worried about, if they really are trying to exclusively play their stuff.