Old digital that still kicks butt

My Marantz CD67 from '97 is still working and sounding excellent!

Who ever said "time necessarily = progress"? Pretty sure what they say is entropy increases over time. Which is pretty much the opposite. That does not however mean entropy increases uniformly everywhere all the time. We can by intelligent use of energy bring order forth from chaos and create regions where entropy is reversed. Case in point, we can over time learn to create better and better components. Yes, even digital.

This is in fact what you are doing with your example. You took an old CDP, upgraded it with newer parts based on newer understanding, and produced an even better CDP. Happens all the time. 

You basically started the same thread 3 times pesky.

The Linn CD12 from 1999 is one of the best sounding digital players that I can remember. I recently heard a Chord Hugo TT/MScaler which didn't sound close to being as musical as a CD12, let alone a mid-90s Marantz CD63 SE

Old digital sounding good? Seriously? I certainly have not been exposed to everything... but I have followed the industry and bought high end digital since the beginning. A few years ago I found my Nakamichi CD player... I must have listened to it for five or six seconds before yanking it out and literally throwing it in the trash. Latter I had bought a tube CD player that was warm and not digital, but had no amount of detail. I remember an early DAC that hurt my ears. Wow, maybe there was something out there, I sure never heard it.

My Teac VRDS 25X from 2004 sounds wonderful, dont think I need to upgrade anytime soon.

After a 10+ year hiatus from 2-channel audio (I was focused on home theater), I decided about nine years ago to set up a system in my home office. I had a Levinson No 39 CD player that I had purchased in the late 90s. The drawer was pretty flakey, but I was able to hook it up to my computer using a USB to SPDIF converter.

The No 39 was a very well regarded DAC/CD Player in it's day, but I figured that DACs had likely improved a lot in the intervening 15 years. Also, the USB to SPDIF converter was kind of flakey.

So, based on excellent reviews, I bought a Wyred4Sound DAC-2. Well, I gave this DAC several months to see if it would break-in and/or I could get used to the sound, but to no avail. It just sounded thin and strident compared to my ML. So, out went the DAC-2.

Several years later, I finally tried another DAC. This time, an Yggy A2. This DAC was a clear improvement over the No. 39 in almost every way. And my current Denafrips Terminator Plus is significantly better yet.

So, while I think good quality older DACs can still deliver decent sound, a good modern DAC offers pretty significant improvements. 

Bitwise Musik System Zero DAC fed by a Monarchy Audio DT-40A transport connected via AES/EBU connection.

Old digital that still kicks butt

Especially well designed ones that use the very best of the last R2R ladder dac chips made the PCM1702 and PCM1704 chips and if you can get them with PMD100 or 200 HDCD filter chips, but not mandatory, after those the next best AD1862N or TDA1541

TDA1549 old early bitstream (single bit) not good musically or dynamically, don’t care what Lampi says about it.

Just use the search for PCM1704 and then PCM1702
http://vasiltech.narod.ru/CD-Player-DAC-Transport.htm

Cheers George

Last Friday night as I had a marathon session, I kept thinking that my CD player (Theta Miles) sounded way too good. My vinyl sounds better (as it should) but the Miles is there nipping at its heels. The Miles does not have the high freq extension as the TT but its 20 yrs old too. I suspect it needs caps & a refresh. One big help is the footers under it. I use my own DIY roller blacks which offer tremendous soundstage  & presence when used under a CDP. I was shocked at how much difference they made.

If you have a chance to hear a 20-year old Audio Note DAC 5, you will see how little the state of the art has progressed.  It has been a while since I have heard the Linn CD 12, but I agree with the posting above that it is extremely good.  It also doesn’t hurt that it is so pretty to look at too.

If you have a chance to hear a 20-year old Audio Note DAC 5, you will see how little the state of the art has progressed.

Also uses a good old R2R ladder dac the AD1862.👍

It has been a while since I have heard the Linn CD 12, but I agree with the posting above that it is extremely good.

Yes and I had one of these, stunning R2R ladder chip CDP, uses 4 x PCM1704K’s and PMD200 HDCD filter chip.
But my old Discrete MSB R2R ladder dac sounds even better again.

Don’t think the old R2R’s even though they are very good, can compete with todays better discrete R2R dac’s, they don’t.

Cheers George

In a second system resides a MSB Link 2 Dac modified by Channel Islands Audio. The power supply is a Monolithic Sound unit. This unit was bought on a whim. So far the MSB has sent a Bryston BDA-1, BDA-2, Bel Canto 2.7 and a Raleigh Audio Rakk tube dac packing. This unit is much better than it should be given the modifications were dated 1999. 

We have an old Sony ES CD player 35+ years that is still kicking.  A Rotel amp kept blowing fuses gone and one other CD player laser died.  The ES still sounds quite good and have it hooked to Nakamichi Receiver 2.  The Nakamichi is from my Dad who passed at 94.  He originally had Macintosh mono equipment that he purchased in about 1957 to 1959. He did not do a great job on speakers but the Nak is superb. Only problem is the FM inpuit is not coax had to use a flat wire old tv 50 ohm converter and the wires are weak.

I've got a Sony 703ES circa 1985. It's sound quality is worthy of a unit from that era: http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-DAS-703ES.html

I have a Naim nDAC powered by a Pardo T-XPS; it's seen off (almost) everything I've compared it to - Denafrips, Schiit's Yggy, Hugo TT, etc.  

The one DAC that was noticeably better was the dCS Rossini; while I' sure there are others I've never heard one that's noticeably/obviously better for anything close to what I paid for the nDAC and Pardo power supply - about $2.2k USD.  

And while I don't own one, I heard a Theta Digital DSPre Gen 3 that is still terrific.  Ditto an older Wadia.  

I agree the good old R2R ladder dacs sound more musical than any of the one bit or bitstream dacs I’ve heard. But it also depends on the implementation. I’ve had two players with 2x PCM 1704k (Krell KAV 300cd and Bow ZZ-8) that both sounded very nice (still own the Bow for its striking industrial design). But they were no match for the Krell KPS20i from 1995, which had 4x PCM 64k (one generation older R2R) in fully balanced digital mode. Over the years this machine has survived many newcomers from respectable brands (Metronome, Esoteric), so for me this is ’old digital that still kicks butt’. Even literally, as the bass slam of this thing has never been surpassed in my experience. I recently had it fully refurbished with a motor and servo revision, new laser, new clock, new caps, etc. I just hope it will run forever.

My modern, not vintage Naim ND555 music server uses the 1704 chip in an R2R ladder DA C.   It sounds pretty good.  I have no idea if this particular approach is the reason for it sounding good.  My old CD player, also a Naim CDP555 also had a ladder DAC employing that same chip.  Does that make me a fanboy?

Cary HDCD 306/200 w/ 8x1704's. When I sold my big rig almost 6 years ago, I went back to the Cary and was happy happy happy to hear it still more than held its own.  Just a great sounding player and DAC still after 15 years. Recently sold mine away to a local friend and replaced with an AMR DP777SE and the improvement is there, but not leaps and bounds....the CD77.2, now, THAT's a DAC and player of a different color.

Not being a believer that time necessarily = progress, I would like to offer the following example of a sonic gem that has transcended time and can totally kick butt in a modern milieu:

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I never wasa  believer in idea:
The New = The Superiior. 
 The latest DAC craze has not interested me in the least.
I have a  cayin CD17 takes a  pair of 6922 tubes have some Mundorf Silver EVO caps in front and exit, if the buyer installs some high tech chinese opamps which I added to my Jadis JS2 Mark2, and you will have 1st Class high fidelity which  few modern DAC's will match. 
Why?
1) Mundorf cpas
2) 6922 tube circuit
3) new super high tech 6 single OPamps.
I just tested w/o the chinese super tech ops and it sounds near the Shanling cd3000 as cd drive + jadis JS2 Mark 2 DAC with Mundorf/4 chinese ops, 2 superr tech, the other 2 I will replace with Super High Tech. I bought  a pair for testing and IMMEDIAETLY ordereda  2nd set.
This Cayin CD17 is going on 20 yrs old, and plays  perfect, built like a  tank, to last forever.
So yes, new does not interest me in the least. 
Upgrading older units with new tech tweaks (Caps/opamps), is the way to go for Super High Fidelity. The Cayin with 6 new chinese high tech ops will  out shoot any new high tech DAC's going at $5g's.
Opamps really is the heart of a  cd player. Less the chips.
I will list it later this week. . 

jaytor454 posts06-07-2021 3:51pmAfter a 10+ year hiatus from 2-channel audio (I was focused on home theater), I decided about nine years ago to set up a system in my home office. I had a Levinson

The No 39 was a very well regarded DAC/CD Player in it's day, but I figured that DACs had likely improved a lot in the intervening 15 years.

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Not necessarily,
The new Cayin 17 Mark2, is nearly identical design to the older 2004 Mark 1 model. 
Why change something that is designed perfect?
The new $$$$$$$ DAC craze lately has not budged my interest. 
I know what I have and that with new upgardes, there is few DAC's that can match the old Cayin with upgrades. 
If I did not have this Shanling 3000 as drive +  Jadis JS2 DAC, I'd get the new Shanling DAC(like $2k) and mod it with Mundorf caps + New Chinese super tech ops. ($50 for duals, $25 singles)
I plan to upload a  YT vid showing off these opamps, after 2nd set arrives in 2 weeks.

The dual Descrete I bought is item
274403974731 $50 each
There is another dual descrete from Douk Audio at $80/each, looks similiar design,  but not same as my LKS ClassA JFET dual
item 
273892617949 SA200
Might sound better?, same? I am not sure.
The Single Dscrete op from Douk is SA100 273868621475 @ $40/each
These 3 are IMHO the best ops on the market.
I noted a  very nice gain is instrument separation, much more quiet vs the other dual descrete I had employed (won't mention brand name, made in in the USA at $60 each)
Really made a  very nice nuance in soundstage.