Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?
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Peter - Thanks again for the update. Being able to tune the bass "Q" is a wonderful feature. My subwoofers have that (Vandersteen 2Wq). Seperately, I had a good listen to Magico S5 MkII speakers at an audio club meeting last Sunday. No, my Ohms are not as good as the Magicos. But the presentation was very different - top-down is how I would describe it, while my system is definitely bottom-up. Here is my point: While I find the Ohms pretty good at detail resolution, they are not so transparent (or ruthless) that poorly recorded music becomes unlistenable. The Magicos are that type of speaker: So pure, so clean, and so revealing, that inferior source material becomes unlistenable. Every bit of excess brightness in a recording, a poor soundstage, and any number of problems with the recording becomes so annoying that listening to that music is not a pleasent experience. Would I like the purity and the freedom from distortion the Magicos (along with a pretty expensive chain of electronics) are capable of? Sure. But not if that meant I could no longer listen to the music I love because it was poorly recorded or mastered. Anyway, at $38K the pair, for me, it’s just an academic question! |
So it looks like OHM finally got a review on their 5000 system. But that conclusion was very very strange. Check it out: http://hometheaterreview.com/ohm-acoustics-walsh-tall-5000-floorstanding-speaker-reviewed/ As for my speakers and all the changes I made in the last few weeks I finally went out to the shop this morning with the decision to finish certain aspects of the design. This means I can most likely be on schedule by tomorrow. Best..........🇸🇪 |
The pain of change.... Greetings everyone. Things are moving forward slowly as I had a bout of RA which really suck but I'm working around the issues. As of last time I questioned the upper part of the cabinet, design wise. I though it was to soft not angular enough. So the changes were made and I think the look is cleaner and a little more masculine, hope you like it... Tomorrow is cutting (routing) the last opening for the passive radiators. The bottom panels will be cakewalk, then it's on to the second cabinet. If anyone thought it seemed like a chore to figure out the cabinet design, it's nothing compared to the mind games I'm going through regarding the finish..... Auto lacquer, Plasti-dip, Veneer etc, etc. As I said before I want something awesome, one of a kind, interesting and or shocking! Sounds easy, but not really as everything has been done literally. So I finally figured it out...But won't tell until the big reveal. Heres an image of the newer design: https://www.flickr.com/gp/147883144@N08/m8n4to Thanks for checking in......🇸🇪 |
Ordered my first ever Ohm speakers. I went with the super sound Cylinder with a 10" driver. I will keep you guys posted once I receive them. I had a pair of Tekton Double Impacts on order and my wife made me cancel them due to their LARGE footprint. My expectations are high and hopefully these speakers are going to exceed my expectations :) |
Congratulations Rodm 2001 These speakers do need some POWER so feed them as much as you can. No such thing as too much wattage for those babies. Play around with placement, as they can get boomy to close to any wall surface. please let us know when they're installed and a few of us here very familiar with anything OHM related... Fun times ahead......🇸🇪 |
Thanks Peterr53 and bondmanp! I recently purchased an Arcam SR250 to serve the speakers. They are only rated at 90 watts per channel but from what the Arcam rep and John told me, those receivers are rated very conservatively and they should not have any problem driving the Ohms. they run in pure class A for the first 20 watts or so. Has anyone attempted to try room correction software like Dirac with Ohm speakers? I am guessing that omni-directional speakers won't work very well with room correction software since the whole idea of pin-point calibration of the speakers for the listening position goes against the core competency of omni-directional speakers. |
rodm_2001 - While I do not apply room correction to my 2000s when listening to music in stereo, I do use a Pioneer AVR for film and TV viewing. This AVR has Pioneer’s MCACC room EQ program. It works quite well, and the results are pleasing with my Ohm center, Ohm MWT surrounds, Def Tech sub and Paradigm Atom rear surrounds. But I don’t have any desire to apply this room EQ to my stereo music signal chain. |
Thanks guys, My setup is going to be 2-channel with no sub. I am going to play with Dirac and see what type of results I am going to get. As you guys have suggested, room correction really comes in handy when blending the sub and other channels together. I will certainly give it a shot and let you know my findings with just having a stereo configuration. In general, what is your guys' take on ohm speakers (stereo mode) without having a sub used in home theater? I am hoping that the 10" driver will produce enough bass that I would not want to consider adding a sub. I have never been too crazy about the surround channels and don't care for subs when it comes to music playback. |
Hey guys... Mapman long time no see :) Yes that is the 5000 driver, due to all the glue and other leftovers from the "Cage" i decided I needed new drivers as they will be in the open. But John and the crew had scraped and minimized any proof or name of manufacturer. So I scanned the internets and voila......Wouldn't you know it, there it was in all its glory lol Now I do have to add some doping to the paper cone and I want to cut of some ugly metal tabs most likely used in the paint process. Today I started to lay out the tweeter bridge, I'm using a 3/4" aluminum plates laser cut and CNC machined. The whole tweeter assembly will float on a magnetic repulsion system......totally cool me thinks😎 |
Thanks bud I'm trying.... Had an opportunity to talk to the importer of the tweeter units, and found out that they are coming out with an upgraded unit....lol So the question is, should I go with the "old" style tweeter or should I spend more and get the new units.....Damn! And oh-well. More soon.........🇸🇪 |
So more info dropped in to my inbox. By now everyone nows that the "Walsh" driver falls of dramatically after about 2.4k which meens we have to x-over the tweeter as close to that frequency give or take a few hundred hz. The ribbon tweeter I originally was going to use, likes to be crossed over at about 2.2k-2.4k with a fairly aggressive slope. The newer tweeter is easier to drive (98db) and I can blend it in way lower at 1.6k with no issues and for the back fill I'll use the older version. More money but I think it'll be worth it in the long run. This is exciting.....🇸🇪 |
Omnis are, and will remain, the odd and distinctive animal in the speaker zoo... They demand care in placement (location, location, location....we're heard that elsewhere, right?). They will be effected by the space they're in...the size, the materials within it, and the shape and proportions of said space. To eq or no will be subject to above, the equipment 'upstream' (gee, what a surprise...), what's being played, how it was mixed, and (of course) taste. The fact that this thread stretches 52 pages is amazing. Particularly to me...*G* And the fact that the reviewer in the posted review can only put the Ohms up against the German Physiks? At that price spread? Damn.... There's other omnis...are they 'also rans', or has the field narrowed to that degree? Wow.... Pardon me....I've got work to do....;) |
Hi asvjerry... I do have a semi dedicated listening/home theater room (family room). I do find the sound better and more focused when I can disperse/diffuse the back sound field. I use art, plants, sculptures, soft surfaces, and wow it does make a big difference. With that said, as some of you know, I did add a rear tweeter in the mix just to see what would happen, I was so taken by the extra depth, focus and overall reinforcement of the sound field (with a volume control) that my new speakers will have both front and rear matching tweeter. I am adding EQ with the electronic x-over which I think is the way to go. No space or acoustic environment is perfect, so being able to fine tune the system to the room is totally smart... talk soon.......🇸🇪 |
Back again for some thoughts on the EQ in the 5000 driver. If anyone would see the amount of wires (very thin wires) and switches with amazingly thin gauge jumpers between the switching network and the x-over electronics, they would question the need for anything bigger than zip chord from amp to speaker. https://www.flickr.com/photos/147883144@N08/shares/T605D2 Here's an image of the switcher innards, the small metal bridge is actually the switch. Not big enough to properly feed the signal un-interrupted. With my design all the drivers will be fed the signal directly from the amp.....should be amazing. More very soon.......🇸🇪 |
Wire gauge only matters over longer distances and more so when high current is needed as well I believe. High quality amps and other hifi gear are chock full of wiring and electronics like this and sound great as do my OHM 5s. My Ohm 100s do not have this circuitry. If there is a negative difference in sound its beyond anything I can hear. The 5/5000 level adjustment circuits make placement in a variety of rooms much easier and result in better net sound as a result. Of course, if one does not need that kind of adjustments and flexibility for their application, I would not pay for it nor apply it. Either way works out fine. Its a small issue if one at all on the grand scale of audio sound quality issues. |
More wires, resistors, or other circuitry in front of the drivers will add or change the signal integrity in a negative way. I'm not saying it doesn't sound good in many circumstances (like many Ohm speakers) but it could sound better with more micro details, faster response, better imaging and overal more air in the presentation. More tomorrow.......🇸🇪 |
Not worth debating because we all know measurable facts are not needed in high end audio to back up assertions. But it does cast the proven design decisions of others in a negative light. Each may have their own unique design goals. Your's suit you. A business must have the collective goals of their customers in mind. |
But cutting corners is cutting corners. Yes you are making the "bottom line" for the company and share holders. At some point you got to take a look at the competition and say........Damn $5000 is getting an amazing value, beautiful cabinetry and custom built drivers to meet custom specs. Look at the 4/5000 (my speakers) The cost of all the hardware including "Walsh" driver, tweeter switches, crossover, wiring, and speaker connector will barely cost $175. Give or take $20. Ohm buys used cabinets for $200 on average, Barely touch the inside (might add a brace or two). Veneers the cabinet which nowadays is so easy and simple due to the veneers being layed out on either wood or paper veneer, you add contact cement (or its pre-glued) voila done..... So what I'm trying to say is that not much effort went in to the product to make more than $4000 in profit. Does it sound great...Sure it does, but with some better engineering, better parts, and more love put in to the speaker it could be totally amazing. |
The effort went into making it affordable, sound great and being reliable. I don’t think JS cares nearly as much about the looks. Certainly not as much as many competitors. You can always go into business and see how it pans out. OHM has been doing their thing their way for over 40 years now and still kicking so they got a bit of a head start. One thing I've come to realize of late even more so than ever is the right know how, usually obtained through years of experience, can easily trump relying mainly on fancy parts and bling. That's the magic of OHM and other companies of the same ilk, both large and small. |
Mapman.... Do you know why I started to build the speakers? After opening the can of the small mini's, and having the shock of my life! The workmanship being so poor that not even a first time speaker builder would have the balls to "glue" together such abysmal product. Yes it's built in a "can" but that shouldn't give them the license to sell crap. If you don't believe me I'll be more that happy to show everyone the mess I payed big dollars for. And if one product shows such disregard to decent workmanship, the chance all of them have the same problem. I understand you're a fanboy and that's OK, and I don't have issues with that per say, but when you know there's a problem ( Ohm replaced/fixed two cans for me and it doesn't surprise me one bit looking inside the "Can"). Call John tell him that there's a problem and customers might be catching on to the issues and he could very easily up the quality to make the product worth the asking price. And finally if you done something for 40years, there likely two options how things go. One: you're so tired of all the crap, your on autopilot and stay on because you're making money. Two: you love what you do and strive to do things better every day. No one can question the quality and ethics of your brand, and can't wait to get back to the office in the morning. p..........🇸🇪 |
I forgot one thing his speaker are not affordable at all, and there's a lot of amazing sounding sub $500 speakers in the market place.....That's affordable and build way nicer than the Ohm's Mapman before you have a stroke, I didn't ever say they're not sounding great they actually do. But they could be better..... |
Hehe... Give me a break, I can afford a $5k speaker thank you. And if you can't understand what I'm saying I feel for you. The idea here is not to put anyone here at blame as I only know one person as far as I know at this forum. But If you, or I are putting our hard earned cash on to any particular product ( not necessarily Ohm) we expect a certain amount of quality and workmanship commensurate with the amount you pay. That didn't happen for me, the trust and excitement went away as soon as I opened the "Can". This project is for me, I'm not in the business to sell or build speaker and won't. But I think I can take the concept further, improve were I think it's necessary and with that making me happy and hopefully write some fun stories and some insight in to my crazy mind and ideas. The weekend is here and I'm excited as both F1 in Monaco and Indy 500 with one of my favorite drivers (Alonso) driving. So it will be breakfast and brunch time racing for me......🇸🇪 |
@peterr53 .. seems to me your project, which you have freely shared here in this long-running thread, has become nothing but a disparaging critique of JS and Ohm. While it’s all been fascinating to some degree, I think a separate thread of your own would be more appropriate. BTW, my MicroWalsh Talls are 11 years old now and still making beautiful music. |
Hi Peter I for one are interested in your quest to perfect the Ohm speaker . I have a set of 2-2000s and feel they could use some refinement in the upper frequency range . I added some super tweeters to my set up and find the results to be positive . I feel that a tweeter upgrade would improve there performance . The other thing would be running them without the cans . I would like to buy a set of raw drivers that are in the 2000s to start fresh and add some high quality tweeters and crossover components .The Ohm design has some great qualities the main one is coherence and no box coloration |
Its a safe bet anything can always be made better either objectively or subjectively. Definitively is a little tougher. OHM does many things to help provide value in good sound for their customers. No need to recap all that here. Having been around and pretty much seen and heard it all, value and utility are the parameters I value in this stuff alongside of good sound of course. Having said that, my home-tweaked OHM Ls are getting more play time these days than any of my other similar "high end" monitors. I did refurbish them myself a few years back. THe 8" Morel woofers I picked up used alone cost almost as much as the speakers did when I acquired them in 1978. Cheap paper tweeters and crossover are still original. |
BTW I have a pair of very nice Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkII monitors (top notch build quality and drivers including Isotar tweeters) with matching Dynaudio stands that are sitting idle currently. I have been thinking about selling them to finance a pair of subs to go with my other small monitors. ANyone interested let me know. I’d like to sell local and not have to deal with shipping the large heavy stands. |
Finally getting back to this fray....*G* Peter53, what drove me to 'roll my own' omnis is the fact that Ohm's speakers, nice as they are and as well as they work, are Not true Walsh speakers. A quick glance at the innards of them vs. an original A or F makes that obvious. Inverting a woofer and parking a dome tweeter above it is not a duplication; it's a 'fudge'. I can understand the Why they are. But given the physics involved as to How the originals worked and the way they were constructed to take advantage of what was going on 'under the hood'....no surprise as to their 'opt out', if you will. I've taken a somewhat different approach with my efforts, closer to the German Physiks versions but going to a vertically stacked 2 way and tapping on the Infinity 'ice cream cone' variant for the tweeter. My 'woofer' cones are a tad larger than the GP's, and running a sub for the lower bass. I'm pretty happy with them...but there's still lots of room for improvement, which is what occupies me of late. And they're still less expensive, as long as I ignore the 'man hours' involved...*L* Any pursuit off the beaten track has its' price...*S* |
Asvjerry thank you, I understand that being a fanboy is cool, and guess what, I was for 35 years with Nikon and couldn't stand Canon or the people that bought one. Now that's ridiculous right! But I was blinded by my fan boy ship (now I laugh about it). Jerry is very, very right, there's no Walsh technology in the modern Walsh speaker none. It's Omni directional but some of it is wrong.....Yes it's weird that they're not using a rear tweeter as most of the frequencies are cut of above 2.3khz. It blew me away when I added the rear tweeter. On another note, it was a great race day. Ferrari won at Monaco....Finally after a dry spell Italy is happy today. The Indy 500.. Wow boring it ain't ever, and after realizing that my boy Alonso made it clear that winning the race was a possibility the friggin Honda engine gave up in a cloud of smoke.....a total bummer, but I hope Alonso quits F1 and come over here for Indy racing....🇸🇪 |
Fugdged??? That you're a fanboy....Mapman just own it, doesn't make you a bad guy just a fanboy. Wrong like "it's not a Walsh driver" I would listen to an expert in Walsh drivers IE. asvjerry Thats all I'm trying to do "Mapman" improve upon the original copy of the Walsh driver. Did that kind of answer your kind "questions" Remember it's suppose to be fun.........🇸🇪 PS. Mapman you'll have a standing invitation to hear my speakers when they're done. I also wanted to figure out what to call them. So I decided to call the "Oh-my" |
Sorry to hear that. Coincidentally a very dear elderly aunt of mine just passed last night. 93years old and always on good health and still sharp as a knife prior. The last of our parents generation some of which were Eyropean born and immigrants as children escaping the horrors overseas that were soon to reach their climax. |
