t8kc...A 'permanent fix', if left to the spouse, might be a pillow applied late one night. ;) Or some sort of involuntary therapy....
You might try a common ground. TV's aren't known for being all that 'clean' when it comes to being 'sanitary' in their audio. I've some residual low level hum, but it's attached to a smaller system that compensates for the awful drivers that are installed into flat screens....
And sound bars? Don't get me started... |
On a hysterical note, the original Ohm cones used aluminum. The center third of a 'F' was mated to a titanium top with a paper lower. The 'A's were 3/4's +/- alum. on the bottom with a titanium top. The cones had (and have to have) a rigid enough material for the physics to work properly.
The new Ohms are more like a Duvell, and they 'cheat' with a tweeter....MNotSoHO....
But they do work...*S* |
...50 pages, wow. I guess there's 'life' in Walsh's after all. ;)
Guess I'll just have to keep tinkering....*S* |
Omnis are, and will remain, the odd and distinctive animal in the speaker zoo...
They demand care in placement (location, location, location....we're heard that elsewhere, right?).
They will be effected by the space they're in...the size, the materials within it, and the shape and proportions of said space.
To eq or no will be subject to above, the equipment 'upstream' (gee, what a surprise...), what's being played, how it was mixed, and (of course) taste.
The fact that this thread stretches 52 pages is amazing. Particularly to me...*G*
And the fact that the reviewer in the posted review can only put the Ohms up against the German Physiks? At that price spread? Damn....
There's other omnis...are they 'also rans', or has the field narrowed to that degree?
Wow....
Pardon me....I've got work to do....;) |
Finally getting back to this fray....*G*
Peter53, what drove me to 'roll my own' omnis is the fact that Ohm's speakers, nice as they are and as well as they work, are Not true Walsh speakers. A quick glance at the innards of them vs. an original A or F makes that obvious. Inverting a woofer and parking a dome tweeter above it is not a duplication; it's a 'fudge'.
I can understand the Why they are. But given the physics involved as to How the originals worked and the way they were constructed to take advantage of what was going on 'under the hood'....no surprise as to their 'opt out', if you will.
I've taken a somewhat different approach with my efforts, closer to the German Physiks versions but going to a vertically stacked 2 way and tapping on the Infinity 'ice cream cone' variant for the tweeter. My 'woofer' cones are a tad larger than the GP's, and running a sub for the lower bass.
I'm pretty happy with them...but there's still lots of room for improvement, which is what occupies me of late. And they're still less expensive, as long as I ignore the 'man hours' involved...*L*
Any pursuit off the beaten track has its' price...*S* |
...for all my puns and general off-topic levity, I'm pretty serious about what I've doing, guys.
My goal (other than finding a cure for irony and making a fool out of God) is to let you hear what I've been making....
...and make you drop your beverage. ;)
Just Because. |
OK...obviously and obliviously I stuck MHO into an ongoing 'discussion'.
Please allow me to hit 'pause' and explain self and my opinions. Not that I'm right...that could be considered 'unusual', esp. if you queried my spouse about that, but that's another subject for a entirely different forum...*S*
Mapman.....far be it from me to say your Ohms are not good speakers, nor good omnis. I have, in the past, even suggested to those who would consider that approach to reproduction to 'give them a go'. One soul, last we chatted, still owns the pair he bought and wouldn't consider anything he's heard since. I will count That as a plus on my karma as an audio fan.
They Really Do Sound Good....But....they still are not a true Walsh radiator.
Upon opening their innards, or just perusing the pics on Google Pics, what one sees is a (granted) carefully selected woofer, face down. Above it is a dome tweeter, again, carefully selected.
Contrasted with the images of the Original Ohms, there's a Big Disconnect. One that Ohm (the company) is quite aware of. Yes, the current product does function to an extent of the originals. The physics involved still work, but they have opted to offer is
a variant that
is easier to fabricate and produce on a large scale. As a business person myself, I'll be the last mortal to argue and say they shouldn't do this. You like it, bought it, still have it, everyone walks away happy....;)
peterr53...I have done my 'homework'. I've studied the Walsh patent, even studied the Hegeman patent that predates it but has remarkable similarities. I've been the 'driving force' (of sorts) of 3 forums eliciting commentary from all and any that would care to comment. Hopefully constructive, and that has occurred. I've chatted with those who 'have been There', and are able to suggest or provide observations that I've taken into account. If I could communicate with the spirit of L. Walsh, I'd do it in a heartbeat....
So...Don't tell me that I Don't Know What a Walsh Speaker IS. Or WHY.
As previously stated, I'm doing my own 'variant'...similar to the German Physiks, but slightly larger. Having learned that the originals STILL operated as a 'piston driver' as opposed to one creating 'pure' radial energies I've opted to 'cut off' the lower bass frequencies and hand them off to a sub. Said sub runs 'higher' than one could consider 'typical', but we can discuss 'trade-offs' if you'd care to PM me....
I've been at this 'quixotic quest' for awhile now, doing the improbable with not very much. I'm 'upping my game' of late, Better Everything. I have a modicum of support from a lot of people, some of which used to be in 'the business' of audio....
So...I think that's about I'll infer for now about What I Know. If you like, PM me. I'll be more than happy to chat you up further. Even if it's only MHO...which there's a lot of that about....here....IMHO....;)
....and turning a woofer 'face down' is Easy. I've done it. The next step...
Not so much....
And I'd still prefer to be a friend to you, Maps....Really.... |
peter, as a 'senior' myself, I don't remember our conversations but will trust yours. ;) Time is not kind to our wetware...*G*
For all of my previous rant (and pardon me, in retrospect it does come off a tad harsh...), I do fully agree. Ohm makes and markets a great line of good products at reasonable price points. And backs that with a guarantee and (I've heard...well, read...) good service. A first class act, that. *S* And more power to them...
I've had the honor and pleasure of some communication with Mr. Harder. His biggest point and hint to me was that my cones are too heavy, which gets no argument from me. I'm working on that...*G* And he's spent much time and treasure perfecting his take on the full range Walsh, and will get no competition from me. Making the full range version is a daunting prospect for a DIY'er. The only thing that could be more difficult is to duplicate an MBL101....but I know someone who is doing just that...and ribbon Heil form elements as well by others.
I'm satisfied with what I've been able to accomplish so far, but am fully aware that they've got their imperfections and 'warts'. But like a parent with a handicapped child, I'm proud that they work as well as they do for what they are.
You can find them and hear them on YouTube, BTW. Excuse the mess and the lousy audio; I hope to exhibit the next version in stereo with decent mics at least...;)
As stated elsewhere, if one finds themselves in WNC, I've an open invite to any who'd like to hear them in person. I'm open to critique by ears better tuned than mine. I am taking a slightly radical approach in what I'm doing, but no one has told me not to do it, either. Just the opposite, actually...
So...I will carry on...and try not to bite quite as quickly when one speaks of things Walsh. ;) At least I've had my shots and been neutered. *L* |
Getting decked by deck duty requires beer(s)...;)
Either of ours would have gotten the garden hose therapy for that act. *L* But boats get missed frequently. Our f/m Pit/Plott is as smart as our M Border Collie/Bassett is dumb (but loyal...*G*). She's the near perfect canine...his worst act is sucking on one of my bed pillows...
We've yet to figure out Why...and I'm wondering why Mine vs.Hers. Some sort of misplaced affection, or just being as neurotic as his owners....*shrug*G*
Nice stuff, maps....enjoy. *S* |
Oh...the M BC/B is handsome, spouse's 'eye candy' on a leash. BC body, B coloration....and brain, therefore the rub. *L*
The others in the litter, short stumpy legs.....no....
Been enjoying 'Downward Dog' on the tube. And 'The Secret Life of Pets' is just what we'd suspected all along....
I always thought our cats would smoke my stash and listen to Elvis @ 10 when we were away...then purr @ us....little posers... |
*LOL* Peter, by the Gawds I wish that were so....
Lately, just French Roast with a tad of Irish creme'...a nice mix of 'up & down', adult Nestles' Quik. ;)
Stir in some bad 'tude, some irony for temper control, mixed mssg. attempts at humor at no own's expense, and a general bemusement at the human condition to a refugee from LA and the Sixties. You MIGHT end up with me, or something you'd rather approach with a cattle prod or a 12' pole. ;)
Oh...and add a desire to not buy the BS, when it should be free since it's so plentiful....
Good to see you're recycling lumber. Keeps it from that 'new/raw' look, and it should be cheaper except for the labor. Which is obviously taking it's toll. *G* That's usually the trade-off...
Looking good..*S*
If faced with the same project, and a dose of time&$ (ever notice how those generally don't occur at the same time?), I'd add a weatherproof sub and a pair of line array columns that'd support an awning. It'd beat the typical outdoor speakers, and I doubt that anyone has tried it... |
...and Good Man's Gots Muffs...a good religion to go to.
(*psst!* Cordless headphones....;)...over the ear...then there's no need to take them off....*G*) |
My spouse seems to like to engage me when I'm 'muffed'....starts talking, and I just smile and nod like an idiot.
"You didn't hear a thing I said, didn't you?"
"Nope...should I have?"
That provokes a varied range of response, depending on the subject. One has to pick the moment....*L* A dangerous form of 'mental Cialis moment' without the stupid bathtub inference which I still don't 'get'.....
Shower, Yes. Bathtub? NO! Neither of us wants to clean up the mess, nor want an outdoor tub. Hot tub....eh, been there, too... *L*
This 'off topic' stuff is probably being clucked at.... |
peter, have a good time and a well-deserved break from 'duty on deck'. *G*
My standard advice is to take your muffs and save the ears for what you Really want to hears...
...and here I thought you were building a 'vintage' deck. *L* My faux covfefe...I'll clean it up later....;)
(Those late-night posts eventually catch you and slap your little hands....*smirk*) |
I fortunately don't suffer with or from arthritis, but there are those that think I should be sedated.....heavily. I guess my attempts at self-medication aren't sufficient enough...
"Twenty twenty twenty four hours to go..." Well, I try, in my way....mostly in my way...;)
Yeah, dumpster dough in LA will run some bucks, but consider the damage to self if you loaded/hauled/unloaded and the combat traffic betwixt. And the trailer and/or the PU you may not have. And then there's the Smell of the dump....makes your nose want to retreat to the back of your skull...
Well, medicate lightly, and go enjoy. I wish I could go with you...stare at the baubles, listen to a few, and tolerate some of the nearly galaxy class hyperbole that accompanies it....
"You absolutely guarantee that, when I listen to This amp, I will nearly pass out from the orgasms it triggers? Really?!"
(Run that pass a rep at your own risk...the response will be Precious, but I can't say exactly What It Will Be...;). I'd love to wear that on a T-shirt to a show, Just Because I Can. *L*)
We could retreat afterwards to the Barbed 'n Grilled to lift a few and say "What'dya say? My ears are still ringing..." for awhile...
Yup, you're right. No respect. *L* It's a show, I've paid for admission, but I don't have to drink the Kool-Aid and fawn on Pavlovian demand. 'State of the Art' still depends on state of mind of the observer. I will attend the church, but have no need to be an altar boy.
An altered one....maybe...*LOL* |
(...10 hours later he was found by hotel security in one of the closets in an unknown demo room with a pair of headphones on. The clue to his location was by following the cord from the equipment, which had been turned off awhile back. He seemed unaware of that fact, humming to music only he could hear...)
Is anyone in your family an audioholic? Do you know the signs of this condition? Do you know the number of our nationwide hotline to call for help when your loved one is exhibiting these signs?
1-888-866-5683...that's 1-888-TOO-LOUD
Let us help you turn it down....;) |
...and be sure to visit our companion website:
BINKY'SAUDIOLANDSLIDE.com
"If we don't have it, we can get it...eventually..." |
We're a non-profit organization, subsisting on donated equipment from families working to cure this tragic disabling condition. Our small warehouse has been filled with all manner of items sent to us to thwart this condition, as the only real cure seems to be the 'cold amp' approach. This has been compared to the 'cold turkey' scenario used for smokers, alcoholics, addicts, and 'binge television watchers'.
When we receive your donation, we will FedEx a strait jacket and a mouth gag ball to help your loved one cope with their 'new reality'.
Someone had to start. We provide the 'off switch'. |
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"Life would be tragic if it were not fun."
Stephen Hawking
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'Interesting' is being very kind, and I'll thank you. *S* Most likely think 'deranged' or 'troll', but the Truth (imaginary or other) is actually pretty simple. ;)
Glad you liked ESS. I used to own a pair of AMT 1C's which sure looked a lot like their 'Classic' current and had the same driver set. I still own a pair of the larger tweets....nothing quite like them, IMHO...
Pity you and Paul got into 'bench racing'...fun as it may be, time seems to leak away faster when other things beckon.
When I go to shows, it's like a 'search & destroy mission'....
"Sucks....BS....More of Same.....MS....MS....Hmmm, NO....*pause*That......sucks....ms....*etc.*"
I go for what's gotten my attention, but I'm still stingy with it. You get it if I take off the muffs. Reps tend to look surprised that I'm wearing them in their space....more when I don't remove them...;)
A good looking chassis should be female. All else is just decor. *L* |
I'll vote with that, maps...*S*
Class D is still in it's infancy, and digital audio in general has more or less become the mainstream of the times. It will only improve, becoming smaller, lighter, more powerful, and able to leap over tall sampling rates without even a bound....
Esoteria will continue to exist, as the 'cutting edge' of now becomes the 'vintage' of tomorrow. But that's the way of all things; if it's not growing, it's dying...
Audio shows will start to look like the computer shows of today. My only hope is that the exhibitors can have spaces that are acoustically isolated from each other and the halls that serve them.
Shows still sound like walking through a massive cage of excited canaries, each singing different tunes....physically and mentally tiring in a way that's not typical, no.... |
*S* Good, back on topic...roll on, gentlemen.
Ciao, peter, maps...see you on the avenues. ;) |
"I do have in teh back of my head that powered subs + smaller speakers and smaller amp, like in my second system, could potentially surpass even my other bigger badder rig currently."
(maps, 6/9)
Exactly...;) Do that. With your ears and intellect, you ought to be pleasantly surprised, if not blown away.
Yeah, I'm lurking out here on the periphery....y'all need to be watched. *L* |
peter, after wrestling an F1 around a track for a few hours with your 'stay alive' competing with 'go fast', I would chug some bubbly from a used condom. *L* But it'd better be mine...;)
enginedr, pete..."Kiss Principal" protocol. If the ESS is centered over the lf driver, time alignment is Done, Rotation not necessary unless you absolutely have to have the base cabinet at a right angle to the wall. Since we're all familiar with 'toe in/out' of conventional speakers, that becomes the aesthetics of how you want the cabinets
to
look in the room...
Yeah, the ESS driver is a heavy little punk. Mine mount with 2 1/4" bolts vertically through the case. Those can go into either a T-nut or a threaded insert into a base plate of nice ply or even a plate of metal if one taps the holes in it..
BTW, been there, done that...I do this sort of thing daily, making 'things' go together...and making it look Nice....
Put a piece of rubber or Sorbothane between the driver and said plate. Although I've really not noticed any spurious vibration from the driver, even at 'full song', granted it could be an issue...
Mounting plate could be suspended above the base cabinet and the woofer with 4 threaded rods and some sleeves of metal tubing to set the height as desired.
A variation of the above could allow the ESS to be rotated and cinched down fairly easily. Since you're mating a dipole with an omni, and if you'd rather not rotate the base cabinet, it's doable without too much more fuss.
*L* I've gotten so used to doing the improbable with so little that mounting an ESS over an Ohm is Easy.
Of course, 'resale value' heads out the window, but...if you're 'doing a clone', that point goes moot...or *poof*. *L*
I could send a sketch of what I'm jabbering about, but I need to know that address...I do that sort of thing, too...;) And would be quite happy about doing so....*G*
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Oh, yeah....keep screwdrivers and such in control around the Heils. That magnet structure will suck it out of your hand. Right into the element if you're really unlucky and the tool is Just So...
I haven't had that happen, but it could really ruin your day.... |
...watching the interplay here is Addictive. *G*
I try to Stay Away, but....time for rehab and the 'lectric headphones with the thing they put in your mouth to Bite....*Bzzzt!*stink of burnt hair, fried flesh*
I feel so much better now....*LOL* |
It's the Energizer Bunny Effect. The Perfect Stone on the Perfect Mountain, obliterating all in it's path. *L*
As a DIY'er trying to make the 'perfect (IMHO) omni, I'm delighted...but it is my flavor of Kool Aid and may be a bit 'grainy'....
Carry On. If records are meant to break, let's have at it. ;) |
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Peter, DON"T use the fleshlight....;)
A Flashlight.....(too many Norcos....)
If you got Any illumination from the former....I'd advise against using it for it's...*ahem*....'normal illumination'...
(...audio people....damn, they'll try anything...Once....) |
*Looking @ Peter, somewhat askance...*
Well, 'one', yes...warm, not hot....
The 'other', the 'more typical' version...batteries do 'funny stuff' when heated and insertion not recommended...;)
..but whatever boats your float.... |
