I am now retired for about 6 years. Previously I was Senior
Purchasing Agent and before that Senior Engineer for a large Manufacturing
company a total of 42 years.
I have been a long-time member of Audiogon, and several
other on-line forums. I have been in this hobby for 50+ years. Heck, I go back
so far that when I was 18, I was a Manager of an Allied Radio Shack Store. Remember
Allied Radio? Remember when Radio Shack bought them? I have also built many Heathkits
and have experimented in many projects through the years from normal to the
insane.
But I have always been fascinated about the relationship of
the AC power to the sound of an audio system. As has been repeated so many
times, how can 5 feet of cable make a difference when there are miles of power
lines running to my house? I know I understand, but is it the last 5 feet or
the first?
Naturally, I have dedicated lines terminated in Furutech NCF
outlets. I have owned/tried so many power conditioners from the likes of PS
Audio, Shunyata, Synergistic, Core power, and so many more. I have also owned
power cables from companies such as, Purist Dominus, Nordost Valhalla,
Synergistic, Virtual Dynamics, Hi Fidelity, Shunyata, Audioquest and on and on.
I share this info so again; you can tell my sincerity about power cables. I
have a passion (obsession?) for them!
My latest effort was a set of DIY power cords that I made using
pure .9999 10 ga solid soft silver in a very high-grade oversized PTFE, braided,
twisted, treated with Nano liquid and then finished with Furutech best NCF
connectors. They look very similar in construction to the Audioquest Dragon
configuration. They have beat all other
power cords that I had tried before them. They have made me happy and content.
So now on to the review of the Nova power cables.
First off, I would like to thank Lubos (bewgow on Audiogon)
for allowing me to demo his cables. My understanding is that all of his cables
utilize copper wiring and Furutech NCF connectors. I will add that I became
interested in these cables from a review on Audiogon that millercarbon started
and was sorry to see it go off the rails. I asked bewgow for a couple demos to try. In a
few days they arrived.
The Nova (silver) power cord.
Since I am using mono block amps, I needed 2 power cables.
One about 3 meters and the other about 2 meters long. Lubos was kind enough to
send me these 2 lengths. The power cords will be connected to my Audioquest
Niagara 7000 power conditioner.
First listen, and I must say, the Nova cable sounded better.
Never would have believed it. No way. But it is. There is so much more air and
life in its presentation. Instruments extend left/right front/ back. Very
impressive. There is a feeling of intimacy in the soundstage that draws you into
the music. Women’s voices have that “tongue in the ear” effect. You guys know
what I mean…Very inviting. Listen to Linda Ronstadt sing “Blue Bayou” you’ll
get it.
The soundstage is wider and deeper. Usually when the music
sounds this pure there is a sacrifice at the frequency extremes. But not with
this cable. The bass is tight and deep and the highs shimmer elegantly. Since
receiving the Nova cables, I have been playing music that I have heard so many
times in so many different formats through the years that I could probably
write the sheet music. And yet, now for the first time they sound entirely
different and so engaging. Fantastic!
I like listening to live recorded music. Mostly rock music.
With the Nova cables there is a new found pleasure in the openness in the
performance. Even some of the earlier recordings like Creedence Clearwater
revival At Woodstock is highly enjoyable.
When you hear your system sounding this right, I knew I had
to have this cable. Now, if only I had some more items to sell on Audiogon,
hmm… Or how to convince my wife I need a couple more power cords…?
In Chucks system the difference was startling I'll admit and Chuck is also correct I don't see a hi end power cable in my near future not because I couldn't hear the difference but because my priorities are different. I'm currently entertaining myself with a three prong to two prong adapter which cleaned up the grunge. I have less bass but it's tighter more controlled and a better top end. Not near the change demonstrated at Chuck's but I don't have anywhere near the investment he does.
If someone was in the market for a high end power cable I would highly recommend the
Moneoone Supernova as a cable to audition. I'm just not in that market, yet.
I fully understood what he meant by "prices are good for up to 2M" ,and that he could make a shorter cable . It doesn’t make sense to me to pay the cost of a 2M cable when only needing 1M or 1.5M. The shorter cables require less labor and materials. But all good, maybe down the road I'll need a longer cable and give one a try
Understood @bewgow. It's important to find our "fastball" in the market and play to our strengths. Just understand there is often mixed messaging by posters on this forum who promote $3K speakers easily beating out $20K speakers. Or a $3K integrated being better than separates costing many multiples higher because of the degradational effects of adding an extra set of ICs to the chain. Or a $3K phono pre sounding better than anything under $10K. But now suggesting buying a $5K or $10K cable when a SR Master Coupler at $150 used to be absolutely fine for nearly anyone. Sometimes consistency in messaging is important to achieve credibility.
three_easy_payments , yes. I could work on a cheaper cable let’s say sounding around 1.5k and try to make it for $500 but there are so many manufacturers who can do just that and only few who can build 10k cable. I am targeting people who know that power cables matter and who want to get the best musical experience. $200 or $500 cables are great but it is like saying that $500 integrated amp is wonderful. And it is absolutely amazing until you experience 5k integrated. And you know what that difference sounds like. Nova is designed to deliver the high end performance at affordable cost. Just one at your power conditioner is going to transform your experience.
For those who may have missed the news, I consulted with Lubos quite a bit in the beginning. It was one of his test cables he sent me to begin with. Turned out he was testing me as much as I was testing his cable. Smart guy. Then prototypes that came after that. He is his own man and does his own thing but I can tell you all without any doubt he is well informed, has a viable plan and it is working, far as I can tell, just fine.
Ozzy is right, there is a lot of value in these just in raw parts alone. But of course the real value is in knowing how to use the raw materials. There are parts like the connectors Ozzy mentioned that are expensive, but there is a lot more going on than simply using expensive parts.
I have no idea what is going on inside either of these cables (and wouldn’t tell even if I did, as that is something Lubos worked long and hard to figure out) but whatever it is the results speak for themselves. If you can find a better power cord for the money, buy it. Good luck.
Price by the way, never will understand why people are so perpetually stumped by Econ 101. Somewhere along the way researching a cable one time I found myself talking with a guy in California. Some years back he developed a ribbon speaker cable. Ribbon construction is so inherently advantageous the cables sounded so good for such a good price he was swamped. I wanted him to make me some for internally wiring my Moabs. Then he told me his story in detail.
Long story short, he got so swamped with orders it became his life. Even then he was backlogged and dealing with complaints. Problem was, building these things called for a very specialized set of skills. Couldn’t be automated, and impossible to find anyone else to train and do it for pay. Poor old logical me says double the price, triple it, quadruple- whatever it takes to get to the point where the high price lowers demand to where he can build them and stay on top of it and feel it well worth the time.
This used to be plain old common sense. Now we have universities handing out degrees to people who know less coming out than going in. So of course no one gets it. Notable exceptions, myself and Lubos. He has his cables priced to outperform and offer greater value than anything else at that price- while at the same time paying him enough to be worth the trouble to make.
He is selling them worldwide. Most customers never bother to post, but I gather they are happy. Ozzy sure seems to still be happy with his. I think he knows his target market just fine.
three_easy_payments, I hear ya. I don’t think the maker of these cables wants to mass produce cheap (inexpensive) cables just to sell cables. He is probably out to beat the best. An additional point, just the AC/IEC Furutech NCF connectors used in the design sell for about $700 a set. So, $2500 is a lot, but not overpriced for what it can be compared to.
Based on the narrow participation in this thread I'd estimate the target audience to be 2 to 3 people. Setting aside the potential for a large margin per unit sold with uber expensive power cables, it seems that a new-to-market cable manufacturer would stand better probability of success by producing a really good (perhaps not $5K good) cable in the couple of hundred dollar range that a larger market could actually contemplate buying...and then develop a buzz at a price anyone can rationalize trying out.
This is why the good 'ol SR Master Coupler ($150 used) has been around so long and why newer companies like Audio Envy are getting such strong followings for their wonderful $200 PCs. They punch so far above their price point, they capture a larger share of the market from budget buyers to higher-end buyers who appreciate value, and they leave you feeling no buyer's remorse (or hurt and ashamed) plus provide easy resale near retail price - much better if bought used in first place!
Just seems like this super expensive AC power cable market is a tough hustle for sure. I do wish all success nonetheless in trying to find a market niche.
The target audience as I see it whynner is two clearly defined segments. One, people with already very good power cords they paid $5k or even more for. Those people will find they can sell them for enough to buy Nova and get a nice improvement for zero net cost. The other segment is people who have experienced good entry level power cords and are looking to significantly upgrade. Granted the "entry" level for Moneoone is $2500, but these folks will have a hard time finding better without spending a lot more.
Bump up the scale to Supernova and the same holds true there as well, just the numbers are bigger.
We did a comparison here with a guy who was absolutely convinced power cords cannot possibly make any difference at all. When the Supernova went in he changed his mind so fast he let out a gasp while the needle was still in the lead-in groove.
Doesn't make him the target market, I doubt he will be spending that kind of money on a power cord any time soon. But it does show how these things sound so good even someone totally skeptical winds up changing their mind in no time flat. Thus he is a good example of someone who will probably be looking at entry level power cords and then maybe eventually progressing to Nova level at some point down the road and has his system improves.
I am building "affordable" high end cables. Yes, the entrance fee is 2.5k and you will have hard time finding something better under 5k. Nova is as good as Nordost Valhalla 2 which is 6.5k. Nordost doesn't do discount, I do offer a 20% discount when you buy 4 or more cables.
Maybe it was just me but i felt a lack of confidence to go against my Shunyata and Nordst cables.
I've not tried these cables yet. However, while there may indeed be improvements from your Shunyata and Nordost, the law of diminishing returns comes into play when you're already into high end cables that most people are unlikely to hear.
This good thread (which followed a good review) addresses both the issue that some people do not believe cables will make a difference in the first place (which most any thread discussing cables will prove), as well as the law of diminishing returns.
Your system may be revealing enough, and your ear as keen, to allow you to hear the differences that we obsess over, but we are a rare breed, no? Understanding this, it makes sense to build a brand around those most discernible differences, and the greater number of people able to hear them. And yet, when the entrance fee is $2,500, aren't we (who've invested enough to expect changes in, and open wallets for, high end pc's) the target audience? From a marketing perspective, this conflicting dichotomy is unresolved in my mind as of now...
I withdrew because if there was going to be little or no difference i did not want to waste anyones time.
Like i said the cables could be excellent but i do not comment on anything unless i have experience with said product.
My post was not directed towards the product. Having been in the industry for over three decades i know when starting out getting product in as many hands as possible is important and showing confidence in your product to beat the competition. Maybe it was just me but i felt a lack of confidence to go against my Shunyata and Nordst cables.
That's why I ask the question what power cables do you have so I know before I send the cables out. After I asked the question you withdrew the offer to audition.
Sorry but you’re missing it. Let me be clear. Both Nova and Supernova are very high performance power cords. The freebie power cord was NOT used because that is how low you have to go for Supernova to sound better. The freebie was only used because I have one handy and Dana was sure the freebie would be just as good. He found out just how wrong that is.
Now you are are saying there was not going to be a big difference with what you have, without saying anything about what you have! What do you have? Because there is no lack of confidence. Unless you have spent a good deal AND made a very good choice I am real confident either one of these will be a lot better.
I absolutely want to know how my cables compare to high end power cables in other systems like yours. That's why I ask the question what power cables do you have so I know before I send the cables out. After I asked the question you withdrew the offer to audition.
I inquired about getting some power cords to audition. But got the jest that they are looking for those without high end power cords i was basically being told that there was not going to be a big difference with what i have and their cords. So now i understand the post their cable against the freebies. Not a good approach, with my next need for a power cord why would i consider their cable if there is a lack of confidence from the get go. It could be a great cable and it should be at the prices but i guess i will never know.
Actually ozzy it is totally the point. It only seems different to you because you are past the denial stage. You know very well how important these things are and so to you the test is comparing one against the other in order to determine first which is better, and second by how much. You are down to figuring out what to spend your money on. That is a completely different thing than what we are talking about here.
The point is there is a difference, and it is huge. The guy who was listening, to him that is the whole point, the whole enchilada, the whole shebang. He thought there was no difference whatsoever. Was sure there could not possibly be any difference. He found out otherwise. Precisely the point.
Now if you want to ask is it necessary to use a $10k PC to prove the point, that is yet another question. Now you are talking about how much of a difference does it take before someone will notice. The answer is: no one knows. Because you are talking hypotheticals. My example was an example. Nothing hypothetical about it. Actually happened.
There are by the way two ways of finding out the same thing. One is you can change and try lots of different power cords. Another is you can change and try lots of different recordings, and different systems. Generally the best recordings and systems will make it a lot easier to discern differences between things like this. But there is yet another way, and this time we stumbled upon it quite by accident.
When Dana exclaimed he could hear the improvement even while the needle was still in the lead-in groove, well that goes beyond recording quality. That goes beyond system quality. When all you hear is a freaking blank groove and yet the power cord is so good it extracts detail even from a smooth blank groove - AND does it so obviously even a guy who is in total doubt and denial is forced to say WOW! - well now folks you know you are talking a very high level of high end power cord.
bewgow, That is no point. Any quality power cord should out perform a cheapo freebie power cord. The question is, is it necessary to use a $10,000 power cord to prove the point?
The point here is that MC had a guy over who did not believe that cable makes a difference. The best way to demonstrate that is to use the freebie. I do it all the time. Second point is that the guy could tell that the Supernova makes a difference in sound before the music started. Amazing!
I had a guy over Saturday, he couldn't believe a power cord could ever make any difference. So I replaced the Moneoone Supernova with a freebie rubber power cord. Let him listen to a little Steve Miller, Space Intro. Then put the Supernova back in.
The needle barely hits the groove when I hear him exclaim, "Wow! That is amazing!"
Yes, the improvement was so vast even the lead-in groove sounded better! Ha!
jafant, Yes I already have, The Synergistic SX is on my Lumin X1. The Audioquest Dragon is on my Audioquest 7000 and the Nova's are on my 2 mono block amps.
@bill3332 - best to contact bewgow per his direction above, but for future reference if you click on the member’s name the page that comes up has a small highlighted box "marketplace feedback" which is right under the word Country near the top of the page, click on that box and the next page has 3 highlighted boxes also at the top portion of the page one being "send message" , click on that and you can pm a member via the website. You can check for a response to your pm via notifications on your page.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
