Nottingham Spacedeck vs Rega Planar 8 vs Technics SL1200G

I didn't tape it, it just sits there without the hole touching the spindle.

I also use the Boston audio mat on my 1200G   It likes to be taped down with scotch tape to the brass platter. 

Jeff, the amount of static I get varies, mostly with weather - more in winter when the air is dry, but it is never much. I am not sure whether it is mat or inner record sleeve or me handling records that contributes most. But one thing is certain - it is not at all a problem in my system with rare exceptions.
I also got Boston Audio big graphite tune blocks under 3" maple platform the table sits on. And the platform is on the floor near left speaker.

@chakster...……….

I truly appreciate the info you have given me, but as my Technics sounds fine (to me) as is, 300-450 is still way too much for a record mat.  I would think that money would be better used to get a better cartridge.  I use a ZU modified DL103 which was around 550.00 when I purchased new.  I am willing to spend up to 200 on a record mat and am waiting to hear from the dealer that sold me the Technics as he also sells Oracle.  Thank you again for the information, you are one of the most knowledgeable people regarding turntables I have ever come across.  The information you have freely given is invaluable.

My next purchase will probably be a Dynavector 20X2L later on this year.  As for the record mat, if I can purchase the Oracle in the 200.00 range, I will probably go for it.  Do you know how it compares to the Origin mat?

inna

Does Boston mat create any static?  

Thanks
Jeff

@stereo5

My Cartridge was only 600.00! At 200.00 I am willing to take a chance, at 700.00, forget about it.

SAEC SS-300 is about $350-450 (depends on cosmetic condition)

Many Nottingham Spacedeck owners use Boston Audio Mat -1 graphite record mat. Including me. The company is out of business, I think, but you might be able to find it here or on usaudiomart or ebay, I saw it once. 

audiotroy

Yes I bought the all new Rega Planer 8 / Apheta 2 combo. Thanks 

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/rega-planar-8apheta-2

essrand 

Yes hello again - I am huge Bricasti fan. Thanks

I just set the table up the other night and it was super easy to set up which was great. 

I don't have my phonostage yet so its for now it is just a display :) 

I bought it last week from the nicest person I have ever done a deal with.

The phonostage I bought takes 2 IEC power cables so I bought the phonostage and 2 ac cables and a pair of interconnects from him for an awesome deal. 

Sutherland Engineering Duo Phonostage
(2) Audience Au24se Power Cables
Audioquest Fire RCA Interconnects. 

I will update you when it lands. I so hope I like this analogue set up enough that I will want to listen to it. I know what you mean with today's really good digital can be tough vs just pretty good analogue.  

Should be all set up later this week or earlier next week. He was not only the nicest guy I ever did a deal with but his prices were better also. Here is his info if anyone wants any gear.
http://www.sonarecoeli.com/

He hooked me up. 

@fsmithjack

I know that you are a big Bricasti M1 fan.

How does your P8/Apheta compare to your Bricasti?

My Rega RP6 was almost bested by my DAC (AMR DP-777). So decided to move on from Rega and wanna try NA this time.

Read of lots of people using 10 inch vinyl as a mat, it's not uncommon although I have never tried it yet.

@stereo5 If you are open to global vendors, here's a link to a guy in Vietnam(Tran Van Tan - TVT Analog Shop) who makes very high quality machined parts for many high end turntables. He does everything from copper and ss mats to arm pods etc. His work is often for vintage Japanese tables (e.g. Micro Seiki), but he has done an incredible variety, all to custom order at VERY reasonable prices. 
When I had a Technics SP10mkII he made a stainless steel mat at very high mass that was exactly to my needs for $200. I decided to order after hearing two of his mats that a friend, @dgarretson, owns. We compared these to 6 or 7 mats including all the usual suspects recommended here regularly. Very happy with Tran's work. 

https://vnav.vn/threads/tvt-analog-shop-chan-chong-rung-da-nang-san-pham-moi.30728/page-13

Cheers,
Spencer

I’m not putting a $700.00 Mat on a 4K turntable!  I already put in an inquiry to an Oracle dealer on their mat which is in the $200.00 range. I am willing to bet that both of those mats will not be a night and day difference from the stock mat.  My Cartridge was only 600.00!  At 200.00 I am willing to take a chance, at 700.00, forget about it.    My platter already has the brass on it and I question what a  expensive metal mat may do to the sound.  

If the mat should be as the LP why not just put an LP undern LP ?
Some people actually doing it

I use gunmetal Micro Seiki CU-180, CU-500, and SAEC SS-300 alloy mat.  
I have a comparison chart made by Micro Seiki and SAEC comes very close to Micro Mats, not to mention that SAEC is the lightest and almost half the price of Micro CU-180. In my opinion the SAEC is a must have for everyone, great mat even for belt drive turntables!

Micro CU-500 is superb for turntables with very high torque like Technics SP-10 mkIII or mkII. The only problem is that CU-500 is impossible to find.

Micro CU-180 is great for most of the DD turntables, love it on my Luxman PD-444

That’s right, those I mentioned used copper mat with top level Technics MK III in systems that exceed just about anything.
Mat doesn’t have to be the same hardness as vinyl.

inna

I don't understand your Issue, Ralph was asked his opinion and he gave it.  The question was not about Nottingham's, it was about a Technics and it was about a mat, not arm/table match. 

Some use copper mats with their turntables, not Nottinghams. Ralph, you should not pretend to be undisputed expert, some of what you say in incorrect or debatable. 
And I will not argue with those who don't understand the concept of table/arm match and besides that are obviously asking for particular kind of attention.

In your opinion, what mat would you use on the Technics SL1200G?

The one we use is made by Oracle.

A good mat is the same hardness as the vinyl of the LP.

Fsmithjack did u get the new version of the RP 8?

I just bought the Rega P8 / Apheta 2 myself and am unpacking it tonight. I voted with my wallet so you know what one I think you should choose :) 

If an MM is what you want, then the Audio-Technica AT-150Sa is a steal @ $340 from LP Gear. Recently discontinued, it is in most respects the same as the current VM750SH. For my money one of the best MM cartridges around and the only one I currently own.

The Goldring 1042 is another no-brainer, though it’s more expensive @ $575 (again from LP Gear). I used one for years and the Gyger S stylus is truly excellent.

I’ve only heard the MP-110 and MP-300, but given how good they sound I’ve no doubt the Nagaoka MP-500 has earned it’s reputation fair and square.

Of the three, I’d say it depends on your subjective preference and on whether your current system tends more towards the bright side or the dark side. Audio Technica’s cartridges are generally very, very neutral, as is the Goldring 1042, only very slightly warmer and the Nagaokas (that I’ve heard) a touch warmer again. Certainly not overtly coloured, but the added warmth is noticeable in A/B testing.

I feel like someone like @jdodmead who's owned the table I am looking at, his opinion matters for sure, especially cause I am looking to buy a table that I will not change for the years to come.
Glad to hear Koetsu works.

@inna got it, will not bother about changing tonearms, esp for a noob like me who hasn't even changed a cartridge that sounds like silly way to start the analog journey.

What's a good starter cart, that I will not outgrow too soon? Based on someone's reco on this poster, a Nagaoka Mp-500 seems like a front runner for this TT/arm.

oddiofyl"Clearthink is obviously affiliated with Audio Doctor..."


I am not involved, affiliated, or associated with Audio Doctor in any way at all in fact I do not even live in New Jersey or the US although I have travelled to your country on business on multiple occassions.

Alleged abuses of Audiogon policy should be brought to the attention of the group's moderators who in their sole, solitary, and final judgement shall assess, decide, and determine whether such allegations have truth, merit, or validity and will then establish the appropriate official response based upon they're investigation, review, and inquiry and it is improper, inappropriate, and unwarranted for individual users, posters, or members of the group to call for action outside of a formal inquiry and in this instance the accusation, charge, and complaint against Audio Doctor is in my opinion unwarranted, without basis and unjust.

Clearthink is obviously affiliated with Audio Doctor...  

oddiofyl "Boycott Audio Doctor"

Alleged abuses of Audiogon policy should be brought to the attention of the group's moderators who in their sole, solitary, and final judgement shall assess, decide, and determine whether such allegations have truth, merit, or validity and will then establish the appropriate official response based upon they're investigation, review, and inquiry and it is improper, inappropriate, and unwarranted for individual users, posters, or members of the group to call for action outside of a formal inquiry and in this instance the accusation, charge, and complaint against Audio Doctor is in my opinion unwarranted, without basis and unjust.

" Putting different arm on Nottingham will throw the whole thing off the balance if the match is not right, it is a complicated endeavor to try a
few other arms. "

This is, with all due respect, utter nonsense. Matching is a non-issue, beyond finding a match with your wallet and personal preference, while fitting fitting it is simplicity itself. Nottingham will supply an arm base for any arm, or for that sake you can have one made locally. Or you can make it yourself if you have less than nine thumbs and access to the necessary tools.

Chakster

I only mentioned the  Black on my table, because the op was under the impression that it wouldn't be a good fit for the Ace Space arm.  I was not trying to steer him towards a Black, that's his choice and there are many of them. And as far as not changing anything for 15 years, I have had a few tables previous to the Nottingham  and I got off the merry go round once I got it.

I listen to some of the fastest and articulate performers one can think of - John McLaughlin and Paco de Lucia. I also heard Paco de Lucia live. Nottingham is good enough in this respect, again the current should be good but that's with any turntable. Rega is not high end.
Putting different arm on Nottingham will throw the whole thing off the balance if the match is not right, it is a complicated endeavor to try a few other arms. I feel no need and have no wish to do it but I might upgrade to top Nottingham arm in the future. I heard people got excellent results with Origin Live better arms but cannot personally verify.

The Nottingham is the epitome of the word musical, the Rega tables are faster and more articulate.

As mentioned before we have the 294 with the 12 inch Spacearm and the arm is great it does not seem as well finished as other arms that are mentioned but the design of the arm is excellent and ithe combo is super musical and engaging. 

You really can't go wrong with the Nottingham or the Pear Audio tables.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

I obviously must vote for the Nottingham!
Own a Spacedeck cw with Spacearm, many say the arm is the weakest link but I have had no reason to change it yet, maybe some time in the future.
Very sturdy troublefree deck. Big plus was adding a Walker motor controller.
Also I run everything through an Equicore 1800 power conditioner so likely got as good a power feed to the motor as I am ever going to get.
Presently running a ZYX RS50 mc cart. Have not experimented with any vintage mm carts on here, I do that on my Denon DD deck.
Considered upgrading from the Nottingham a few months ago and then sanity returned! It's here to stay.

"We have a demo 294/ with the matching 12 inch arm,if you are interested the package sounds incredible we just want to play with a different table."

Shameless plug

Do you think the alloy mat will take away the benefit of having the brass in the SL1200 G platter?

Not sure if Ralph ever tried rare SAEC SS-300 alloy mat, but in my opinion this is amazing mat for Technics turntables of all kind from the SP-20 to the SP-10 mkII and SL1200 series 

@atmasphere ………………………………..

In your opinion, what mat would you use on the Technics SL1200G?

@tzh21y

Look for mounting distance on Reed website

Pivot to spindle distance is 223 mm for ’9.5 inch Reed 3P tonearm
Yes, you can mount it on Technics SL1200G if you will make a custom armboard, the distance is fine and the tonearm cable will be on top of the armboard (not under the armboard). You need a solid steel machined armboard with just 3 treated holes for 3 screws to mount the Reed 3P on it. This is the most beautiful high-end tonearm imo. 

would a Reed 9.5 fit on a technics 1200?

There is no such thing as "the best arm" for certain turntable, unless the pivot to spindle distance and the armboard allow us to mount the arm we have many to choose (depends on the cartridge).

Reed 3p tonearm does not require even a hole in the armboard (just 3 screws), the arm available in many versions such as ’9 inch, ’10.5 inch and ’12 inch which i am using. Reed is great because we can choose the right armwand for certain cartridge, each armwand has different mass.

Azimuth on the fly is absolutely unique feture of the Reed, watch how it works. Any other tonearm has this feature ? I guess none of them.

P.S. Koetsu Black is the worst model in Koetsu line, it’s the cheapest one and many people claimed it does not have a magic of Koetsu upper models. This information available online, so anyone can ferify.

There is one low compliance cartridge that easily compete with the best Koetsu like Coralstone, but for much better price. This cartridge is Fidelity-Research FR-7fz and you can read about it here. This is absolutely amazing cartridge for FR high mass tonearms.

In general i think the best and useful advice coming from folks who actually change the arms and turntables, not from the people who never changed anything in 15 years and never compare one thing to another. At least wheni’ve been looking for the decks and arms or cartridges i was more influenced by people who experiment with high-end gear. Only in comparison we can actually find out what is the best.

P.S. Stanton/Pickering with Stereohedron styli are killing the Nagaoka, read why.

I used a Koetsu black and it sounded great!

thanks @jdodmead for the reference to the old thread.

Looks like I will stick with the ace space arm then.

Apparently the best cart to start with then is the Nagaoka. Too bad a starter Koetsu wouldn't fit this arm, it might be the sound I am looking for.

We have a demo 294/ with the matching 12 inch arm,if you are interested the package sounds incredible we just want to play with a different table.

@nandric well, never tried them, i can only recommend what i have tried and what i really like. But you're welcome to add more interesting tonearms. 

I have heard the Zeta.  its excellent.

I have owned a Spacedeck w/heavy kit and Ace Space arm for 15+ years now. I have never given a thought to upgrading the arm or turntable and can't speak to how other arms compare to the Ace, but here is an older thread that may be of interest to you.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/best-arm-for-a-nottingham-spacedeck?highlight=arm%2Bfor%2Bspa...

There are many more amazing tonearms on the market, do not limit yourself with a brand new tonearms like Jelco. They are OK, but nothing special.

Look and read more about Japanese High-End tonearms from the past, all of them in the list below have VTA on the fly, unique features, special materials, precision bearings. Those arms are absolutely amazing and much better not only compared to Jelco, but also compared to some $5k tonearms made today. They are all in $700-1500 price range . 

Lustre GST-801
Victor UA-7045 and 7082
Technics EPA-100 and EPA-100 mkII
SONY PUA-7

Don’t forget about Fidelity-Research FR-64s and FR64fx but they are normally $1500-2500 depends on condition

When it comes to a brand new High-End tonearm with precision adjustement of everything including azimuth on the fly and vta on the fly i would recommend Reed 3P series if the budget is up to $5k

Nottingham's tonearms are widely regarded as not being on the same level as their turntables.  Personally I don't particularly like them and chose a Jelco SA-750E instead.  The old line of Jelco arms are excellent performers and still easily available online (eBay seller 2juki is an excellent source), or there's the new line at roughly twice the price.
The (old) Jelcos will perform very well with a large span of cartridge weights and compliances and represent by far the best bang for the buck where tonearms are concerned.  I've not yet heard a new one, so I can't comment on those.

I am so far based on your responses leaning towards a spacedeck.

Should I get a ace-space arm or are there better tone-arms for this TT?

Assuming I choose the right cartridge @essrand

The right cartridge is Pickering XSV-3000 (or Stanton 881s) MM with original Stereohedron stylus (one of the best profile ever made) if you don’t want to spend more than $400 to get highly competitive sound up to $800 easily. It’s high compliance MM which is perfect for Technics tonearm. Victor X-1IIe with titanium pipe cantilever and nude elliptical tip is also nice one for under $350, but the Victor X-1II with beryllium cantilever and nude shibata stylus tip is better than all of them, but much more expensive if the condition is like new. Those Victor are mid compliance and great for most of the modern tonearms too. Grace F-14 and LEVEL II are absolutely killer MM cartridges along with the AT-ML180 OFC if the budget is over $1.5k

If you will buy Technics make sure to remove stock rubber mat and replace it with SAEC SS-300 alloy mat with disc stabilizer like Micro Seiki ST-10

This is your ticket to high-end analog 

I owned Rega, moved up to NA Mentor (precursor to the Dais). The table is not suspended, so it can take an air bearing tonearm. I use the Trans-Fi, which is surely the best bargain in audio at $1000. Cartridge is a Koetsu.

The 'heavy' kit is worth considering, now or in the future. So is the Wave Mechanic. I gave away my older but well regarded Technics 150 Mk2; not in the same league. Not even close.