Hello Ggil, yes these little brutes are a super vehicle to get to musical nirvana. I was up till late last night playing lp after lp. I have a good selection of my favorite music, classic rock and roll. A few of Tom Ports hot stamper lps Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon, Santanas Greatest hits, along with other great sounding lps. My musical enjoyment was fulfilled to the max. |
Ggil and Stltrains, beyond the transparency these amps can produce did they add some bloom to the mids or give them some texture that they are missing? The amps are good and they do sound nice but after an A/B with some Linn Klouts they did lack in musicality or texture of the instruments. There was a significant difference in how horns and vocals were produced. Great size on the Nuforce and smooth but lacked the realism. It also seems to me that a tubed pre could be a very good choice. Can you leave the new amps on all the time and just turn off the tubed pre? |
Jp1208 in my system the new addition of V2 hasn't changed the sound of instruments that i was hearing with ref9-SE, just added to the air around them. Along with less distortion better attack and decay of notes. It may be a little early to get a true appraisal yet. I have a piano in my rather large den slash music room and when playing the real piano and then listening to my system, Elton Johns piano comes through rather close to the real thing. I consider when it comes to timber of instruments and voice there is so much to take into account for what we assume is missing. We all are trying to get that real sound, and i don't think its possible to get the true absolute sounds of voices and instruments.
In the end though, satisfaction from our gear is achieved through musical enjoyment.
I leave my amps on all of the time. no problem at all. |
Jp1208, when I originally compared the Nuforce Ref 9s to my ARC VT100MKII, there were many characteristics of the Nuforce amps that I liked better than the ARC, including transparency, dynamics, bass extension and control, mids, highs, etc. I've never had an issue with lack of bloom or texture previously with the ARC or the Nuforce. However, before I upgraded to the V2s, on a few piano recordings, I did get a sense of sterility in the mids, even some harshness. But since the upgrade, that is completely gone. Those same piano recordings sound incredible. As far as adding bloom, I would say since the upgrade to the V2s, mids are much more natural sounding than before, but I don't know if anything is added. The way I would characterize the Nuforce now is almost like a crystal clear window into the recording. Whatever my CD player plays, I hear. That includes both good and bad in the recordings. If you have a great front-end, you'll hear every nuance of the recording with the Nuforce amps. As far as the heat goes, I don't notice the amps being any hotter than before the upgrade, but the SEs might be different. |
Stltrains, Do you turn your pre-amp off and leave the amps on. I thought turning off the pre and leaving the Nuforce amps on was not advised. I would not want to leave a tube pre on all the time.
If there is better attack in the instruments then my guess is they have studied other amps to try and give better musicality and texture in the midrange. More attack to me leads to a livlier slightly forward presentation. This is good actually and peaks my interest. It is that little fuzz around certain vocals and instruments that brings me closer to realism or a live performance. Not being in your face but just being there. |
Jp1208, I don't turn anything off in my system other than my vpi sds.
If you have not given nufore gear a try, one dollar will give you a month of at home audition of said gear. |
I have to say that the Ref 9 SE V2's certainly live up to the hype in my system. Well done NuForce. |
I recently left my V2 integrated on for 72 hours straight, driving Thiel 1.6's for breakin (3 ohm min), and found that there was a little residual RFI interference on cheap FM tuners by the end of that period. Perhaps the long time and heat build-up changes component spec just a bit. My high quality Denon FM tuner is not affected at all but $30 clock radio had a hint more static at that point, which disappeared when I turned the integrated off.
However when I first turn the V2 unit on, there is no static even on the cheap FM radios (unlike with the V1, where the cheap FM radios were unlistenable immediately upon turn-on of the NuForce).
This is my long way of saying that I've decided to NOT leave my NuForce integrated turned on 24/7. Usually with solid state, I do leave it on 24/7 unless it has a high bias to class A.
Art |
Hi,
Would it be a waste to use these amps in an application that doesn't require high power or are they that good regardless? The reason I'm asking is that I think my JM Lab Mini Utopias could be better controlled than they are by my cj Premier 11a. I also have a cj Premier 17LS and I guess what I'm looking for is a way to better utilize the speed/articulation potential of the Utopias without sacrificing the naturalness/beauty of the cjs.
I posted this question on another thread but in retrospect realize it might have been inappropriate (sorry Samuel) so I thought I'd try again here; or perhaps it's just a dumb question. Any thoughts? |
Jeez.....I go on vacation for 10 days and my thread jumps from 70 posts to 160!!!
I still love the Nuforce Ref 9 SE V2...However, I lent the Ref 9 V2 to another review who used a Krell FBI Integrated as his "pre" and he thought it sounded thin.........Krell. |
Apologies JB, your use of 'it' is ambiguous. Did the NuForce sound thin, or did the Krell instead? |
In my experience - the Nuforce is anything but thin... |
Dunno....it was his guick interpretation that the presentation was "thin"....I suspect it was the Krell.
I agree - Nuforce does not sound thin in my set up. |
Jim, are you using the 9SEV2's with your 10t's? Did you have the V1's before? |
JB, let me understand: there are two configurations:
1. A Krell integrated used on its own.
2. The same Krell integrated used as a linestage in conjunction with a NuForce and a yet unspecified IC between the two.
Observations: there exists a 2nd hand report, according to which One of the two configurations above may have sounded thinner than the other, but we do not really know which one. Given the ambiguity of the findings, and the necessity of there existing an additional unknown IC to add to the variables, I am not sure if this finding is bringing us any new knowledge quite yet. Could you clarify with your friend? |
Jp1208 -
Yes I am using the V2 SE's on my 10T's. I have never used a NuForce product before this audition. I must say that I'm very impressed so far. |
Often a thin sound is due to underpowering; that is, given the efficiency of the speaker and the size of room and your musical taste, more power may be needed. Sometimes we think we have enough power just because we get volume....
Art |
Jim Swantko -
How about a blow-by-blow comparision to your MLs??
John |
Jb -
I'll keep updating as I continue to aurition them - but they are no joke and my Levinson has a scared look on it's face. :) |
Well it's official. I will be buying a pair of V2 SE's to replace my 336.
As far as a blow-by-blow. I can say that I honestly don't think there is an aspect which the 336 is better than the V2 SE's. Not texture, not speed, not bass, not imaging, not detail, not musicality - nothing.
To all the doubters - please give them a listen before writing them off. |
Jim, thanks, for the update. I may try and send a pair of the Ref9's and have them upgraded to the 9SE V2's. They are pretty fair regarding upgrades and I believe Nuforce can take them up to this level. Does anyone know the answer to this? |
yes you can easily upgrade the 9 to either a 9V2 or the 9SE V2
|
I got my 9SEV'2s back from upgrade.
Yes they doooo need a break in, and I have run mine in for 100 hours. Before break in holy bass and fog and mist. I felt like I needed to move them 10" feet further out from the wall. Now all I can say is I have nirvava with my system. I feel no need to change anything, and honestly my system sounds better then live music. It is so clean and clear and "full". Happy! Yes the V2's in my opinion are a step up from from the 9SE's. |
I wanted to point out that Bob Levi just posted his review of the NuForce 9 V2 SEs (mine to follow) and his thoughts are relevant to issues raised in this thread. i.e. comparisons to mega buck amps...
Read Here:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue33/nuforce.htm
Anyone care to comment? |
It reads like an over-the-top rave to me. (Which, as an owner of v1 9SE's, is not necessarily a bad thing.) Honest question: how credible is Mr. Levi? I haven't followed his reviewing history.
Also, PF should copy edit its reviews. This one was a bit sloppy in spots. |
It is still peculiar to me that there is an evident dichotomy among the audiophiles who like and don't like NuForce (and other class D amps with or without built in switch mode power supply). Many proponents say: "Wow, those amps can easily beat over US$10,000 amps", while the opponents say: "The whole technology is bad. It is an immature technology full of pitfalls and shortcomings. The treble response sucks big time. Avoid them as the plague, etc.". I haven't seen such an extreme polarization within the audiophile community as in this case. Even in the case of solid state vs tube debate audiophiles are less polarized, in that most of them are aware that both technologies have their own benefits and shortcomings. I'm wondering what actually is the cause this dichotomy regarding the digital vs conventional amp technology.
Chris |
Chris -
I agree with you and find the situation remarkable. I wish I had an answer but I don't. I will say that many of the extreme opponents that I have spoke with never spend a lot of time will switching amps in general and reached their conclusions in a knee-jerk fashion.
On the other hand, I have not found anyone that has spent a respectable amount of time with a NuForce amp and remained completely opposed to them, unless they had a vested interest. (i.e. did not carry them, did not manufacture any Class D amps or recently spend tons of cash on a more traditional design)
Also, the "new technology" argument does not fly with me. By my estimate, the Bel Canto Evo hit the market in 2001 and I believe there were others before that. The current state of D amps, such as any of the V2 from NuForce, represents a culmination of development and refinements to the technology. It has have taken CDs 25 years to sound really good, whereas these D amp have taken 7 - 8 years.
Then there is the resistant to change concept. Although you cannot quantify it or measure it, a reasonable mind can see that one who owns (or worse, recently spent larger sums of cash on) a mega buck linear or tube amp, will naturally shy away from a "newish" product which is 1/4 the price, 1/10 the weight, 1/25 the size and 100% cooler in temperature yet sound just as good if not better.
Be honest, have you ever defended a purchase (speakers being the most common) even though a "better" product became available soon after AND you could have afforded it??
All these issues could contribute to the division to extremes you spoke of....or we believers could just be wrong.
John |
Chris & Jb some interesting thoughts, thanks. I've assumed that the whole thing started with Stereophile's review of the PS Audio HCA2 along with its induction into their Class A rating all with seemingly less that stellar measurements. It can be difficult to admit that a fifteen hundred dollar amp has similar strengths as a high dollar unit.
Mr. Levi' enthusiasm for the SE's might be more of a testament to the Avalon Eidolon's as well as the 9's. The Eidolons are extremely revealing of changes within the system and as such provide a simply wonderful platform to hear the NuForse 9V2SE's.
Vic |
Or is perhaps the problem a religious one? One of 'believers' vs 'unbelievers'? In which case the issue is in danger of becoming aprioristic, and as such a specious argument by definition? Whereas a different and technologically agnostic way to look at the entire matter may be to start from a set of personal sonic requirements or practical constraints, and empirically determine which particular device or devices match such sonic requirements and constraints. This last approach may avoid the frequent pitfall of broad generalizations, which tend to be flawed either way. |
Does anyone know if Nuforce amps will be shown in any suites at RMAF in Denver next month? |
I emailed the folks at Nuforce a couple of months ago and they said they would not be there. I guess it is possible for a dealer to bring the amps(?) I would love th hear a V2 version. |
I have demoed the se v2`s a couple of times.
All times fully runned in and with reference caliber frontends.
The always had a strange mid/top colouration wich alwasy ruinned it for me.
The are also somwhat dark sounding .
I then demoed the linn klimax solos well the do cost 3 times as much but the sounded twice as good.
Musicality refinement and even bass slam are from a different world.
Sorry not to kick nuforce but the are getting way to much hype if you ask me.
thanks |
Are you referring to Spectron Musician 3 SE V.2? What's the technology underlying the Linn Climax Solos? |
No its nuforce ref 9 SE V2`s im referring to.
Linn klimaxes are analog amplifires that use digita powersupplys or smps like nuforce.
The use chips instead of the analog curcuits and have no capacitors in the extremly signal path.
Linn is the biggest tru hifi company in the world today and where those that started hifi back in the early 70`s with there sondek lp 12 vinyl player , the klimax series are the top of the line offering .
The also just released the klimax ds digital source that replaces the sondek cd12.
There are tons of info about the klimax solos on the net .
thanks |
Sorry i accidently hit submit as-is button
No its nuforce ref 9 SE V2`s im referring to.
Linn klimaxes are analog amplifires that uses there owen developed digital powersupplys or smps like nuforce.
The are a patended design i beleive the call them brilliant power.
The use chips instead of the analog curcuits and have no capacitors in the signal path.
Wich is very short.
Linn is the biggest true hifi company in the world today and where those that started hifi back in the early 70`s with there sondek lp 12 vinyl player , the klimax series are the top of the line offering .
The also just released the klimax ds digital source that replaces the sondek cd12.
There are tons of info about the klimax solos on the net .
thanks
|
My apologies Tda2200 and all for my spectron/Nuforce confusion, I should remember not to post on any matters of substance unless I have had enough sleep. Glad you enjoy the Linn Klimax Solos. Unfortunately I find Linn sometimes to be a little exhuberant in the treble region for my particular preference. . . . Perhaps I don't understand true Hi Fi. |
Guidocorona
Thanks for your honesty, i was a victimog to the same thing yestoday.
I have extremly sesitiv ears and cant stand hot treble and i dont like hifi sound i like music and musicality.
linn klimaxes are VERY sensitiv to the up stream gear used and the do not cover over lesser preamps and sources.
In my room the treble is sweet and linare no glare no brightness no nothing only music.
I do use sonus faber cremonas
Wonderfull combination by the way.
regards |
