I am a new force dealer. I also sell one of the most regarded American made solid state amplifiers on the market, this particular amplifier costs $21,000.00 is hand made, runs class A/B and is a 300 watt power house, this amplifier line is beloved by Harry Person and the staff of the Absolute Sound. I also sell a very well respected line of Class A solid state amplifiers as well which are imported and are also well regarded.
I was a new force sceptic, I started with the original Nuforce Model 9 which I liked but honestly I didn't love.
Then the Mike Silverton review of the Se version came out where he compared and bought the 9Se over the huge class A Levinson 33H! At that point my curiosity was piqued so I bought a pair. The 9Se were much better sounding they had a liquid midrange plus the same speed and transparency and bass punch.
I then decided to show the Nuforce amplifiers at the HE 2007 show. Nuforce was excited to be one of our show partners as they had just released the V2 versions and wanted to show them off.
Long story short we produced some very, very, good sound. Many HE 2007 show goers said we had some of the best sound at the show, and our entire room cost half to a third of the price other guys rooms!
The Nuforce Version 2 amplifiers are a true breakthrough, compared with amplifiers which are four times the price the Nuforce in most respects sounds better, these amplifiers really are very special. I have to agree with JB8312, I would compare the Nuforce with many of the 20k and above amplifiers, in fact I am actively searching to find an amplifier which really does outperform these little marvels.
By the way, I worked in high ened retail for 20 years before opening my own shop. I have played with most of the top five amplfiers, and I would disagree with the assertion that there are a hundred top five amplifiers.
I would rate the current top tier amp companies in no particular order: Boulder, Vitus haven't heard but by reputation, Plinius, Edge, BAT, Halcro, Sim, Pass and Lamm.
I would add Nuforce to that very honored list, they are that good!
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to Lacee,
your response is quite puzzling. Would you prefer to have a company that offers no upgrade pathways or no evolution?
The fact that Nuforce is offering an evolutionary and revolutionary product which for a reasonable fee keeps on improving is a testament to how good a company they are.
In my 20 years of selling equipment, I can't tell you how many times customers were upset that Mark Levinson or Krell had come up with a new product, which made their current models obsolete, and in most cases there was no upgrade path. Most high end companies come out with new models every four to five years.
You also forget how many revisions ARC came up with for many of their preamp models!
In reality this is only the second generation for the Ref 9 in two years. The 9Se is a different model entirely!
Also after talking with Jason, the V2 board will be very hard to better, so you can be assured that the V2 versions will be current for quite a while, but even if that is not the case, the upgrade costs with Nuforce for an original owner are very reasonable and is testament to the kind of customer support that will make Nuforce a real player in
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To Guido,
I am a dealer with certain loyalties to my brands, and not in every circumstance will the Nuforce sound better.
So I don't want to slander my own brands by naming names, but with a little research you could find out what brands I am comparing to.
The best thing if you are skeptical is to hear these amps for yourself, the tide is turning, and many people are starting to realize that Class D can have real magic and are not just technological freaks, but real instruments.
There will always be people who are drawn to the massive metal and sound of some of these conventional class A or Class A/B monster amps, but I am also willing to bet many consumers are going to rethink that Class D can't get me there, line of reasoning. |
Dear Nuforce supporters, please do not second guess what you are hearing based on Audio Feil or some of the other negative posters.
First of all Audiofeil has listed and still lists Nuforce on his website and now says: that Nuforce amplifiers are over priced, and under performing and now all of a sudden he is not carrying them.
Either Bill's hearing has suddenly shifted or the man has no integrity and jumped on the Nuforce bandwagon to make a quick buck.
Talk about overpriced his cartridge man isolator sells for $150 bucks for a little bit of foam!
How come he features lines on his website which he doesn't sell such as Nuforce, Usher, and many others?
The new V2 versions Bill has never heard,have only shipped recently. The V2 versions are dramatically better than the Se version which were really good. The new V2 product has propelled Nuforce into the class of some of the world best amplifiers.
We Sell some very expensive class A and Class A/B amplifiers which are very respected products, and many of our customers are going with the Nuforce, so draw your own conclusions.
How can a set of amplifiers which cost 1/2 to 1/4 of the price of these mondo expensive amplifiers be over priced, if anything the Nuforce products are a bargin!
In fact I am actively searching the market to see if I can find a better sounding more expensive solid state amplifier that can beat the overall superb sound quality of the Nuforce, and I am looking at amplifiers which sell for $10,000.00 to $20,000.00!
I am sure Bill will chime in and accuse me of being a shameless self promoter, but I will take a shameless self promoter who believes in his products than this old fool who knows nothing and has no integrity to boot.
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To Bill Old fool, again we get into this you will never know more about audio then me,unlike you, I DO NOT DO THIS AS A HOBBY! I have been a professional audio salesman for close to 20 years and have worked for two of the top high end audio dealerships in the US before opening up my own shop in late 2005. Here is my professional resume:
Started working in high end sales at Sound by Singer in New York in 1989 worked there until 2005 except for for three years working for Innovative Audio.
In close to 20 years in New York professional audio retail, by the way Bill before you became a "dealer" what did you do for a living? I have sold thousands of components and hundreds of systems. I have gone to CES, CEDIA, and worked two of the Stereophile shows.
I was the top Wilson Salesman in the 1990
I was the top Transparent Audio salesman in 19992
I was one of the top Krell salespeople in the 1990s
I was one of the top DCS salespeople in the country
I was one of the top VTL salespeople in the country
I was the top VAC salespeople in the country
I was the top Meadowlark Audio salespeople in the country
I was the top BAT salesman in 2000-2005
I was one of the top Nordost, Black Diamond Racing, and
Synergistic Research salespeople in history of those companies
I designed a $300,000.00 board room project for Tommy Boy Records.
I designed a $200,000.00 mastering room monitoring system for the late Gabe Weiner of Quintessential Sound in New York, this system was on the cover of Mix Magizine.
I was flown to England twice to setup a $150,000.00 high end home theater as well as Canada for the same thing.
I have sold and played with Halcro, Burmester, Krell, Audio Research, CJ, Boulder, Krell, Spectral, Audio Note, Audio Valve, VAC, Manley, VTL, JM Labs, Wilson, Pipedreams, Apogee, Martin Logan, Sonus Faber, DCS, Esoteric, Bel Canto and more brands than I can remember.
I am ISF certified, and have studied acoustics and home theater design with Russ Hershelman and Keith Yates.
I now own my own shop with close to $600,000.00 worth of high end on DISPLAY not in catalog pictures like you.
Can you please tell the readers how real a dealer you are by showing pictures of your showrooms or the amount of equipment you have on active display!
Bill go back to the little corner of the world where you reside and let the big boys play, as you have demonstrated you are full of bravado but you can't back any of it up.
My resume is public knowledge in the industry, I know most of the vendors in this industry by name and over the years I have worked with most of them.
You are a self proclaimed expert, please let us hear how much you really know about this industry and this hobby.
I am all ears are you?
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to Drubin, the V2 board improves the amplifier immensely. However, the SE version is still a different amplifier with upgraded parts and other modifications.
With that said a new V2 Ref 9 will now outperform an older Ref 9SE original version.
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To JP1208 which version where you comparing the Klouts to?
The older Ref 9 were good but hardly the world class amplifiers they are now.
I would also agree with you that the A21 vs the Nuforce is silly. We have compared the Ref 9SE V2 to a $21,000.00 state of the art solid state amplifier that is rated as one of the best sounding solid state amplifiers in the world, and many of my customers prefer the Nuforce, yes they are that good!
I am quite familiar with the Klout as I used to work for one of the biggest Linn dealers in the country, and I liked the Klout so I am interested in the particulars of your comparison.
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The we, 9rw, is myself and my staff, I have four people on staff, four showrooms, and two trucks, we have converted an 1880s Victorian home into showrooms and are working out of there, until the company grows large enough to move into a brownstone in downtown Jersey City.
Currently the display stock is close to $500,000.00 at retail pricing. We welcome any interested parties in for a demo. Your sleuthing is quite good, not that it would be hard to figure out.
I am the head of sales and currently there are no other salespeople, but considering there are others in the support staff, the we is correct.
As per the "mystery" amp being dusted as you have put by the Nuforce, I never said that, what I said is the Nuforce has been the amp of choice by certain customers having compared the Nuforce amplifiers to these other more expensive amplifiers one which costs four times the price of the Nuforce.
Amp selection is directly proportional to what speakers, cabling, preamplifier etc. Currently our reference Cary SLP 05 preamplifier is off line, so we are going direct from the Audio Aero Prestige into the amplifiers on test.
It may be that the Nuforce sound great this way and the other amplifiers do not sound as good.
I am reporting that setup with tubes somewhere in the front end, the Audio Aero does have tubes in it, the Nuforce rival and are competitive with these more expensive Class A and Class A/B amplifiers. Personally I think the combination of tubes in the front end or preamplifier driving the Nuforce is the winning combination. The amplifiers really do work wonderfully well with tubes.
Which is better will come down to taste and preference, I wouldn't carry those other amplifiers if I didn't think those products were superb in their own right.
Many people will not even consider a digital amplifier based on their own biases against this technology vs the warm fuzzy feelings that they get from tube amplifiers or from conventional amplifiers. |
The Acoustic Zen cables produce no time smear, in fact how would you quantify it if it existed in the first place?
I think they make a very fine cable, incidentally the Zen Power cords are extremely good.
I sell Synergistic Cables as well as Audioquest. I do think that the powered cable technology has some real advantages over non active cables. |
yes you can easily upgrade the 9 to either a 9V2 or the 9SE V2
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