So NuForce smoked Rotel. This is all starting to make a lot more sense. |
O yea 9rw you are so right, boy the nuforce gear really socked it to the rotel gear and it smoked bose to, i got a invite for you if you ever come to south louisiana get in touch sure would like to meet a audio expert like you, |
How about meeting a teacher instead? Based on your writing prowess, you made it clear through the second grade. |
I am probably the first person to have bought a Ref 9 SE v2 in Great Britain.
Before upgrading from my humble Unison Unico (but I have owned a fair share of respectable stuff in the past) I auditioned a lot of the most hyped amps in this side of the pond for the same price braket, including Krell, Primare, Bryston, Bel Canto, Moon, McIntosh, EAR Yoshino, Meridian, and a few more. To my ears there was not even a remote competition: the NuForce were in a totally different league.
I don't have the same experience of many here, but I have own my share of equipment in the last 30 years and I have been going to hifi shows constantly. I was always thinking that amps at any price point were a compromise, I never find one that for my taste was totally right (far from that). I listen to an extremely broad palette of music and these are my findings:
- Some really good tube amps have a marvellous tonality and magic mids when listening to simple acoustic music or classic, but every single one that I have heard fall apart whenever things get more dynamic or electric and in a lot of cases bass get slow and muddy
- A few very good (and very expensive) solid state amps get the bass and dynamic much better, but mids and highs are often grainy, dry, or uninvolving. Very few SS amps get close to what I wanted, but they are extremely expensive, bulky, heavy and generate tonnes of heat.
With the NuForce I have finally got something that is not a compromise, or an amp that forces me to listen just to a certain kind of music. To my ears and for the sort of music I listen to it is the only amp that totally satisfy me, at any price point.
PS: in this thread I have seen a couple of the nastiest people I have met in forums |
9rw you arrogant audio snob, did your mom not give you enough toys to play with, or did you get you butt kicked a lot. its got to be something for a human being to act like you. i dont have a thing against you or the equipment you like, just trying to get through life happily, the invite is still on though, i have a nice swamp tour lined up for you. the swamp is so lively at night. get in touch. |
NuForce bested my ARC VT100MKII hands down. An immediate knockout. |
Stltrains: Actually, I did the butt-kicking. And I'm certainly not an audio snob. That's pretty funny. I might have to take you up on that invitation. You'd better warn the alligators. |
>>NuForce bested my ARC VT100MKII hands down<<
Most amps will. The VT100MKII, like most ARC amps, is a dog. |
Viclondon - Good Post. I agree the NuForce handle a broad range of music very well. I did find a weakness last night. After listening to some really well recorded music, I decided some U2 was in order. I was never more aware of just how compressed the Joshua tree disc was until that moment.
Now, recall I just got done listening to a wonderfully recorded live event (Diane Reeves; In the Moment) so I was really In the Moment, I am afraid that even the NuForce could not compensate for the compression that was the Joshua Tree disc. I was listening at very high levels (16/31 on the digital volume)so it was still a lot of fun.....just a little eye-opening.
PS: Unfortunately, this place is taking on a bit of the AA flavor that I could not take any longer. |
Uh-oh. Another NuFarce dealer enters the fray. ARC probably turned him down when he tried to be a dealer. Is that what happened, Bill? |
Hi 9rw,
I have not made any request to handle the line. As a whole the products are overpriced, underachieving, obsolete, and low value.
They are a tough sell based on the balance of other products available.
An informed audiophile would know that. That leaves you out I guess. |
Now I am admittedly speechless. . . if NewForce has made short shrift of both Rotel and the mighty Bose. . . I shall withdraw in quiet awe of the Force of this staggering New giant! |
I dropped Nuforce a while back. Your comments are not relevant.
Thank you. |
So what about my question on the RFI and EMI concerns? Has this issue been fixed 100% in the V2? If so, I will give the amps another trial in my system. I just don't want to burn through some more time and money if this issue is still going to interfere with my turner. |
Audiofeil, was your decision to drop NewForce based on its sound? Could you characterize it? |
jb8312,
Nuforce is an extremely revealing amp; it cannot compensate for poor recordings. If there was an amp that could make "Californication" sound properly million of people would buy it...
NF amps are also extremely fussy about all the ancillary equipment. Yesterday I was contacted by a member of a UK forum who was curious abut the NF, as he wanted a summer amp to get besides his McIntosh 275; he asked me to come to an audition. We spent a few hours of good time listening and we did some cable swapping. The differences we heard were very noticeable to say the least.
I was a bit nervous about his judgment because my rig is totally American:
Opus 21>NF ref9SE v2>gallo ref3II
so the sound of my rig is very, very lively, the way I like it, but totally different from the general British sound, very polite (always please and thank you) and laid back. To make a long story short, the next day he went all the way to the NuForce dealer and not just for the summer, but for all seasons... |
9rw,
have you ever thought about getting a life? It could seriously improve your general mood.
We are just talking bloody hi-fi, if you are not interested in Nuforce you could go elsewhere, take up golf, get a vacation, a better job, make a friend, just stop insulting people for no reason.
I really feel sorry for you, for the way you are intruding this thread and for all the people you have insulted |
"NuForce bested my ARC VT100MKII hands down. An immediate knockout"
That was certainly not my experience. I had the 8.02's, and a VT100 mk2 at the time. I found the Nuforces boring, and sterile compared to the ARC. They were initially impressive sounding, but I did not want to listen long, unlike the multi hour sessions with the ARC. They just did not sound as natural as the ARC. But then, the ARC was more than twice the price, so it should have been better, and was. |
I want to interject in this thread;
The discussion of why a product was dropped from a line-up should never be discussed in the public. In the end - it does no one any good. Unless there are downright criminal things going on that can be backed up with irrefutable evidence, I'd suggest keeping such discussion confidential/private.
Just a friendly suggestion based off of some first-hand experience... take it for what you feel its worth. |
Dear Nuforce supporters, please do not second guess what you are hearing based on Audio Feil or some of the other negative posters.
First of all Audiofeil has listed and still lists Nuforce on his website and now says: that Nuforce amplifiers are over priced, and under performing and now all of a sudden he is not carrying them.
Either Bill's hearing has suddenly shifted or the man has no integrity and jumped on the Nuforce bandwagon to make a quick buck.
Talk about overpriced his cartridge man isolator sells for $150 bucks for a little bit of foam!
How come he features lines on his website which he doesn't sell such as Nuforce, Usher, and many others?
The new V2 versions Bill has never heard,have only shipped recently. The V2 versions are dramatically better than the Se version which were really good. The new V2 product has propelled Nuforce into the class of some of the world best amplifiers.
We Sell some very expensive class A and Class A/B amplifiers which are very respected products, and many of our customers are going with the Nuforce, so draw your own conclusions.
How can a set of amplifiers which cost 1/2 to 1/4 of the price of these mondo expensive amplifiers be over priced, if anything the Nuforce products are a bargin!
In fact I am actively searching the market to see if I can find a better sounding more expensive solid state amplifier that can beat the overall superb sound quality of the Nuforce, and I am looking at amplifiers which sell for $10,000.00 to $20,000.00!
I am sure Bill will chime in and accuse me of being a shameless self promoter, but I will take a shameless self promoter who believes in his products than this old fool who knows nothing and has no integrity to boot.
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First of all Audiofeil has listed and still lists Nuforce on his website and now says: that Nuforce amplifiers are over priced, and under performing and now all of a sudden he is not carrying them. Go back and read his entire post. I think he was referring to ARC when he made those comments, though it confused me at first, too. |
Oracle,
This "old fool" forgot more than you'll ever know about audio. |
Yes Drubin I was referring to ARC. Some people can't read or tell the truth because they are too consumed with self promotion.
They know who they are.
Thank you,
Bill Feil |
Viclondon: Who pulled your bloody chain? Stay on your side of the ocean -- where you belong. We won our independence hundreds of years ago. I respond to people in kind.
I was just trying to find out how many iterations of this amp there have been and in what time span. No one has provided that information. Could it be that it's embarrassing to the company? I am certainly not the only one who has made this observation.
Audiooracle: Here we go again. How about naming those amps that NuFarce is beating? Guidocorona has asked dealers to do that. It shouldn't be so difficult to comply. |
To Bill Old fool, again we get into this you will never know more about audio then me,unlike you, I DO NOT DO THIS AS A HOBBY! I have been a professional audio salesman for close to 20 years and have worked for two of the top high end audio dealerships in the US before opening up my own shop in late 2005. Here is my professional resume:
Started working in high end sales at Sound by Singer in New York in 1989 worked there until 2005 except for for three years working for Innovative Audio.
In close to 20 years in New York professional audio retail, by the way Bill before you became a "dealer" what did you do for a living? I have sold thousands of components and hundreds of systems. I have gone to CES, CEDIA, and worked two of the Stereophile shows.
I was the top Wilson Salesman in the 1990
I was the top Transparent Audio salesman in 19992
I was one of the top Krell salespeople in the 1990s
I was one of the top DCS salespeople in the country
I was one of the top VTL salespeople in the country
I was the top VAC salespeople in the country
I was the top Meadowlark Audio salespeople in the country
I was the top BAT salesman in 2000-2005
I was one of the top Nordost, Black Diamond Racing, and
Synergistic Research salespeople in history of those companies
I designed a $300,000.00 board room project for Tommy Boy Records.
I designed a $200,000.00 mastering room monitoring system for the late Gabe Weiner of Quintessential Sound in New York, this system was on the cover of Mix Magizine.
I was flown to England twice to setup a $150,000.00 high end home theater as well as Canada for the same thing.
I have sold and played with Halcro, Burmester, Krell, Audio Research, CJ, Boulder, Krell, Spectral, Audio Note, Audio Valve, VAC, Manley, VTL, JM Labs, Wilson, Pipedreams, Apogee, Martin Logan, Sonus Faber, DCS, Esoteric, Bel Canto and more brands than I can remember.
I am ISF certified, and have studied acoustics and home theater design with Russ Hershelman and Keith Yates.
I now own my own shop with close to $600,000.00 worth of high end on DISPLAY not in catalog pictures like you.
Can you please tell the readers how real a dealer you are by showing pictures of your showrooms or the amount of equipment you have on active display!
Bill go back to the little corner of the world where you reside and let the big boys play, as you have demonstrated you are full of bravado but you can't back any of it up.
My resume is public knowledge in the industry, I know most of the vendors in this industry by name and over the years I have worked with most of them.
You are a self proclaimed expert, please let us hear how much you really know about this industry and this hobby.
I am all ears are you?
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Audiooracle stated
"How can a set of amplifiers which cost 1/2 to 1/4 of the price of these mondo expensive amplifiers be over priced, if anything the Nuforce products are a bargin!"
Audiooracle - 1/2 or 1/4 of sth's price should be bargain, until you list internal parts included. Tell us what superior-tech part into the NF box is so expensive (transformer, caps, colling devices... - I am listing usually priciest ingredients)? Not to mention big, expensive chassis the big boys possess...
I have listened NF 8s and found sterile and boring, easily beaten by mid-priced amp like Parasound Halo A21. Can't beleive that 9 series in any incarnation incl. V2 SE might go much better...
MY OPINION: Nu Force comic boxes TOO EXPENSIVE in terms of technology inside, particularly in Europe. In reality, prices on approx. 1/4 level of current prices may be acceptable. 1250USD for a pair od 9 V2 SE - no one cent more!!! |
Audiooracle
Impressive portfolio. Only forgoten that you've attended Mars as Alf's audio consultant... And, of course, add Paris Hilton as your close friend... And all others out there commiting suicide knowing such a big gun exists on this humble forum!!! |
Check out Audiooracle's feedback . . .
So you're a good salesman. That doesn't mean you can hear. And working for Sound by Singer is actually a negative. Check out what Audiogon members think about that place and how it treats folks.
So what are the other amps that NuForce destroyed? |
my goodness do you people have anything better to do than not only look to start controversy, but keep stirring it. this thread was started to inform and interject nuforce gear. you dont like it no doubt, who cares i dont. if you want to start a thread do it and move on. you are making audiogon look like something other than an audio site. more like a group of ginny women. |
Very impressive Audiooracle. You forgot to mention the identity of your current business. . . If you were wondering about the origin of my morbid curiosity, I am still itching to find out the name of the $21K SS sacred cow which NewForced creamed with such aplomb. Or does thy moniker connote that classically minded propensity towards eternal obscurity, indirection, and even misdirection, like in the pronouncements of Delphi, sybilla, and all other true oracles of old?
Viclondon, I was not aware that the thread was open to true believers only. . . is there something I am missing? |
Right on, controversy is a terrible thing. . . and that's exactly why it was rightfully barred for 70 years in the USSR, 25 years in Italy, 7 years in Greece, 11 years in Germany, 59 years in China. . . disperse now good people and cease disturbing the peace. . . or else! |
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yea audio and world events like terrorism, discrimination, mass murder, and worse have a whole lot in common, what BS. this is not rocket science or world events its audio. most of you controversial posters on this thread are not true audiophiles, or you would be glad other audiophiles have happiness in there systems, it seems though for just some odd reason nuforce gear is not to your liking. and if its not what you own or like then bash it, i guess its because these little super fine revealing amps make your big, slow, hot, and super expensive amps a bad choice.
i really dont care what you say or post i wont be reading it you losers are out of my club.
enjoy your miserable lives. |
Stltrains, I have not heard the NewForce amp as yet. I was attracted to it and to this thread because of its promise of a low cost, musical and crisp sounding solution. Still am, in spite of having found on this thread a small minority of 'true believers', which remind me of the strictures of the regimes mentioned above. Autocratic regimes are not at all only about mass murders, violence, political repression, invasion of other countries, etc. . . They are also about the slow smuthering of open discourse in the fine arts, and the choking of differing aesthetics and philosophical schools of thought around the fine arts--musical or otherwise, by those who have aspoused the Truth. Please do look up the life and times of Zdanov, the ideolog of social realism in the arts. Please do rest assured that I will still post to this thread and others like it, and I will eventually have the opportunity to listen to the NewForce and evaluate it critically and with a completely open mind, in spite of any minor stridencies encountered in these pages. |
Stltrains: This is about seeking the truth -- in audio and beyond. Do you have a problem with that? |
9RW, quoting once more the sage of Appenzell:
"one often has problems with experimental seekers of the small and sadly subjective truth (note small 't'), when one has already been so fortunate to grok a-priori The ultimate absolute and ever objective True Truth(note Cap 'T').
The only residual problems experienced by all lucky holders of the Grand True Truth to end all Megagalactic True Truths is. . . . that they do not seem ever to agree on what the darn thing may be!"
[Aloysius Q. Schmaltzenstein Gavronsky] |
what truth are you talking about, from what if have seen along with personal shots at me is bashing, if what you are looking for is the best of the best in all that audio can deliver why are you screwing around with nuforce, i know nuforce is not in that category, and i have never seen that said.
but for me the gear works.
super resolution, detailed, hours on end music sessions, no fatigue. of course that includes my other components.
if that is what you have with your system great.
so whats the negativity all about here. |
Guidocorona, fess up.... You are a Shakespeare enthusiast. ;) |
I do not rightfully know, Stltrains, all the reasons behind the acrid posts. Perhaps dyspepsia? . . . in fact, I was just wondering myself why some folks were getting their musical shorts up in a bunch. |
guidocorona i dont know about dyspepsia, dont even know what it means or care to know, i do know that musical happiness is where i am now. hopeing the same for you. |
plato you were asking about p-9 preamp here is a link to a review of p-9 from soundstage.com
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nuforce_p9.htm |
Dyspepsia is an other word for upset stomach, a perfect 'family values friendly' condition. My musical happiness is tempered by current hot weather. . . my Rowland 7M golden oldies do become rather warm during Summer in my loft. So I won't use them much until Summer's end. . . hence my interest in class D/T amplification. |
I am not sure what people are hearing, but I have A/Bed the Nuforce stuff to the Pass Labs stuff and there really is no comparison. The Nuforce stuff is just digital sounding to me and nothing like analog. Just my take. The Absolute Sound hit the nail on the head saying the digital stuff is just missing something, but it is a promising technology. |
Arbuckle, which NewForce amp iteration have you compared with which Pass device? |
Arbukle --
The point I originally wanted to make with this thread is that the state of "Class D" has changed with the NuForce V2.
I enjoyed my SEs for a year, but in all honestly, once I moved into my larger space - I could not help but hear the digital-ness of the amps and was getting pretty itchy.
With the V2, all is right in the world. Since putting the Ref SE V2 in the mix, I have be zipping home each night excited to hear what I can get out of it next. Since putting it in, I have spent well over $500 on new music and hour of time rediscovering the old again. In short, the promise has been fulfilled, IMO.
I have nothing left to do but start with room treatments.
John |
I tried the Bel Canto Ref-1000's in my system, and found the same thing as Lngbruno below- my FM tuner went crazy, and the television was snowy on certain channels. Has anyone found these issues with Nuforce?
07-13-07: Lngbruno
So what about my question on the RFI and EMI concerns? Has this issue been fixed 100% in the V2? If so, I will give the amps another trial in my system. I just don't want to burn through some more time and money if this issue is still going to interfere with my turner.
Lngbruno (Threads | Answers) |
Guidocorona my heart goes out to you, going it with out music. no doubt a advantage for class d, dont know if you have noted these reviews from http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue32/nuforce_v2.htm
http://www.stereotimes.com/comm070207.shtml
as you know no review can duplicate what a component will sound like to your ears in your music room.
jb8312s your comments above are well taken, very soon V2 will land in south louisiana,
music is such a big part in my life that i have planed my V2 upgrade to correspond with vacation.
i have read others feelings on the way nuforce is handling upgrades. i think its great i will have the latest technology with delayed payment. i started with standard ref 9, then SE, now V2, all in the same chassis,
this my be a little puzzling but the first upgrade was much more expensive. from what jb8312 and others i have said the musical improvement and over all performance is much greater with V2 for less money. i love lagniappe |
Interesting reviews Stltrains. Do you happen to know the damping factor for the Ref 9 V2 SE? I could not find it on the NuForce product page, although damping factor for the previous model 8 is indicated at 4K. |
I'm wondering about the upgrade from 9SE to 9SE V2. I have the impression -- just my impression, not based on much at all -- that the new V2 board may supersede much of the accomplishments of the SE upgrade to the Ref 9, such that the difference between the 9V2 and the 9SE V2 is less than the difference between the two models prior to the V2 intro. There is probably some superfluous stuff in the SE that no longer adds value. |
to Drubin, the V2 board improves the amplifier immensely. However, the SE version is still a different amplifier with upgraded parts and other modifications.
With that said a new V2 Ref 9 will now outperform an older Ref 9SE original version.
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