Next step in Turntable
" keep hearing of Brinkman Bardo from this string Im going to take a look at it ? DIrect Drive?" frozentundra- As you can see, you're getting plenty of suggestions how to spend your money. There's even one saying he has a VERY good one, but it's STILL BOXED, because he has a "BETTER" one! The Bardo products get mentioned because they are proven performers. If I were in buying mode at that level, I'd consider DD. I would decide first if you're going new or used. It can make a considerable difference in what your money will buy. Used can get a $20K piece negotiated to half. An example is on usaudiomart. I can't link here for obvious reasons. But there is a killer VPI Avenger deal there for a package with a lot to offer. |
Try this if you considering classics (direct drive) for two tonearms. |
(1) Others have already made this point but surely it has to be Direct Drive. In the Technics lineup they have a good range. They are blindingly easy to use. (2) In terms of phono stage, again no specific model but please look up 'LCR Network'. They tend to be expensive though. Not as important as the TT. (3) Cartridge: I only know the Hana by reputation. I used to go to highesh end cartridges but I have changed my mind. They do not last like other components, and - I know this as well as anybody - they are easily damaged! (4) Tonearm: avoid Origin Live. |
@chakster, it is very simple. If it does not bounce between 1 and 3 Hz it is not isolated and the amount of noise passed on by the environment is easy to see. Hook the output of your phono stage to an oscilloscope and put your stylus down on a record with the turntable stopped. Tap on your granite rack and watch the oscilloscope jump. All that wiggling going on in the background is environmental rumble. On any good suspended turntable you will not see any of it. The tracing won't be dead quiet as the cartridge is capable of picking up air currents in the room. You can pick up an interstate highway up to a mile away depending on surface conditions. Have the wife turn on your dryer, watch the oscilloscope jump. Same for every mechanical device in the house. These are the only feet I have seen that represent a very intelligent design concept.https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/vibration-control/products/solid-tech-feet-of-silence Assuming the spring rates can be specified for the weight of the turntable they should work fine and be very stable. Pricey but, if you have an unsuspended table you like, these would be a reasonable add on. |
I use Solid Tech Feet of Silence, they have proved to be the most effective feet in my System when combined in the assembly along with my my Differing Tiers of Construction, that are used to produce a Presentation that is very satisfying to my Personal Preferences. These are the Footers that are in direct contact with the TT's Plinth, and also the Footers that have superseded all my Previous Methods. |
@mijostyn If it does not bounce between 1 and 3 Hz it is not isolated and the amount of noise passed on by the environment is easy to see. Hook the output of your phono stage to an oscilloscope and put your stylus down on a record with the turntable stopped. Tap on your granite rack and watch the oscilloscope jump. All that wiggling going on in the background is environmental rumble. On any good suspended turntable you will not see any of it. The tracing won’t be dead quiet as the cartridge is capable of picking up air currents in the room. I don’t care about noise I can’t hear! 1 - 3Hz ??? When I play record there is nothing under 20Hz and I don’t hammer my turntable when I listen to the music. I should concern only about frequency range comming from the speakers withing vinyl record frequency range, the speakers are near. I have absorbers and diffusers on the walls and ceiling in my listening room. Sitting in Russia and listening to my favorite vinyl I don’t care about seismic vibration from Japan, aliens rarely use their weapon in my area since the Tunguska event in 1908, we are fine. I don’t have to glue some springs to my slippers before I come to flip the record. Audio-Technica AT616 Pneumatic insurator are super effective in 50Hz - 20kHz range. Pneumatic is super effective at 200Hz. Overall they are effective at 20Hz - 50kHz and there are graphics of the measurements in the manual. They are also level adjustable and ideal for some turntable plinth! I liked them under wooden plinth of Technics SP-10mk2, Denon DP-80, Victor TT-101 (because stock feet sucks) ... I the AT/616 under my huge Tannoy “15 DMT MK2 monitors on the front side only (to change the attack angle). Regarding other turntables I want to remind you again that Luxman PD-444 is suspended on its stock level adjustable feet. I don’t use AT-616 under my Lux PD-444 turntables, because this plinth is a perfect design, But I use custom racks (they are metal filled with sand). |
As said my Solid Tech Feet of Silence have superseded all other used footers. My AT 616 are used under a Sub Plinth and are no longer used to be the Footer that is in contact with the TT's Plinth. The Feet of Silence when used in the Construction of Materials to support the plinth has bettered them, when my ears are used to assess the effects. I do use AT 616 under Cabinet Speakers and the effect that they have is quite satisfactory and I see no reason to change this as a method. No fancy measurements at my end to convince me of my decisions for the use of Footers, The Method used is to Buy, Trial, Trial, Trial, in various permutations, Keep or Discard, using my ears as the Tool to make the choices. When the Footers referred to above are under the radar, the purchase costs do creep upwards to be able to assess such devices. As difficult to believe as it is, even for myself when first experienced, my Home Built Aerated Suspension Sub Sub Plinth was to have an effect on the above Tiers in the Support Structure, that really allowed the TT's Presentation to be quite special, and showed the real difference between the AT 616 and Solid Tech's |
The problem with @mijostyn is that he never tried the AT-616. Here is the image of my AT-616 in my system (under Tannoy). This is another set of AT under my ex SP-10mk2. 4 x AT616 designed for up to 132 lbs weight (60kg). The problem with Solid Tech is their ugly design, I would never put them under anything like vintage turntable (but it’s just my opinion). |
'Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder' The Aesthetic of the Solid Tech is certainly not their problem. The Aesthetic might not be to all tastes, and this totally acceptable. If a Concern about a Solid Tech Feet of Silence is to be raised, as a user, I will say one has to be mindful of the loading, as it can be set up to take extra weight, but the Projections that are the Cantilever Suspension Points, may become compromised where they connect to the Main Body. I will additionally say the Foot Print would benefit from being a Little Wider, to give a reassurance that the Supported equipment is undoubtedly stable. This is not the result of the supported device being able to be in a state of Flotation. It is that the Diameter of the Base in relation to the Height of the Footer seems to suggest it would not survive and unwanted contact/force applied to the Device being supported. If my Set Up was not in a Dedicated Room, where movements around the equipment are quite limited and carried out by respectful types, i.e, not the Grand Children. I would have had an additional Footer Plate produced to give the sense of a improved Stability being available, and not compromise the Function. As the Solid Tech does a very good Job, it would be worth the extra investment, when used in certain environments. |
@Mijo--In my experience all drive system represent trade-offs--none are perfect but some better than others. The TE-2 approach is to extract the best of what belt, direct, and idler systems have to offer while minimizing the downsides. I think the TE-2 achieves this goal as per speed stability, accuracy and quietness of operation. The proof is in both listening and measurements. As for dodging wow and flutter if you dig a little deeper you will see that Paulo at Sempersonus has developed a very sophisticated devise called the "Shaknspin" which Michael Fremer reviewed very positively on Analogue Planet. This clearly attests to the designers commitment to strong measured performance. You can read the review here: https//www.analogplanet.com/content/shaknspin-electronically-measures-turntable-speed-plus-great-deal-more |
Some Solid Tech feet are similar to Isonoe that I am using under my pair of Technics turntable in my second (not main) system. |
Whilst Viewing the Isonoe Footers. It is noticeable that the Footers share a similar Suspension Method, to the Solid Tech 'FoS'. Looking at the Method of attachment of the O Rings it does seem possible to increase the Diameter of the O Ring to produce a improved weight carrying Footer. What is likeable is the Easy to Remove / Threaded Attachment, Contact Point for the Plinth or Equipment. I was intending at some point on producing a New Contact Point for my Solid Tech 'FoS' , that could then have a option to trial with other shapes and Materials, the Isonoe would make the Intended New Method much easier to produce a exchangeable part to experiment with. As the Base of the Footer is not interfering with the Operation of the Footer, the available option of adding stability Base Pads/Shoes are a welcome option. In my view if these are not too expensive they will be worth a Trial. |
Not sure if it was mentioned before, but Townshend pods are excellent, and really easy if you get the seismic platform (which has the pods screwed in) under your turntable. Just make sure to order the correct weight limit pods since they need to compress about galf way to work optimally. Probably one of the most, if not the most expensive option, but IMHO the best. Sound improvement was fantastic. Doesn’t cure foot falls though-might actually create them at those low frequencies. |
@unreceivedogma: Now get yourself the VPI SAMA (Stand Alone Motor), and you’ll be set! And if you can find a TNT-3/4 platter (a bottom section of 7/8" aluminum with a plate of cork-covered lead inserted into it’s bottom side, topped with a 5/8" layer of Delrin. The Aries 1 was fitted with the same platter.)---with dedicated bearing, that will give you a slight increase in sound quality over the HW-19 Mk.4 platter. Some like the TNT-5 platter (a bottom section of 5/8" stainless steel---no lead insert, topped with a 7/8" layer of Delrin) even more. |
The HW-19 Mk.2 has a floating subchassis composed of a bottom layer of steel top with a 1/2" split-slab of acrylic (the split between the larger piece onto which the platter bearing is bolted, onto the smaller the tonearm), and a 1" Delrin platter with a thin slab of lead bonded to it’s underside and covered in cork. The Hurst motor is mounted onto the wooden base, as is the dust cover. In the Mk.3, the subchassis’ steel bottom plate is replaced with stainless steel, the platter remaining exactly the same. Same motor mounting design. In the MK.4, the 1" Delrin platter is replaced with a 1-1/2" lead-lined Delrin one, and with the better bearing from the TNT and Aries 1 tables. I may be mistaken, but I believe the 1-1/2" Delrin platter is also used on the original TNT table, and is definitely used on the Aries Black Knight table. I’m not certain, but I believe the base-mounted motor was still standard on the MK.4, the SAMA offered as an optional upgrade. The 1-1/2" Delrin platter is replaced in the TNT-3 with the 1-1/4" aluminum/Delrin platter (still with a sheet of lead bonded to it’s underside and covered in cork) described in my earlier post, and retained in the TNT-4. That same platter is used on the Aries 1 table. That platter is replaced with a solid frosted acrylic platter in later Aries tables, not highly regarded amongst VPI aficionados, considered a major misstep on Harry Weisfeld’s part. In the TNT-5, the 1-1/4" aluminum/lead-lined Delrin platter is replaced with the 1-1/2" stainless steel/Delrin platter (no lead in this one). In the TNT-6, that platter is replaced with the same solid acrylic platter as on the later Aries. Again, a mistake. Confusing, ain’t it?! |
