Next step in Turntable


Gents;

I am currently enjoying my re-start of analog and LP’s 

Pro-Ject Classic 
Hana SL
Musical Surroundings Phenomona II+
Anyway, I’m finding That I really enjoy the LP life 
I’ve found a system that is quiet, dynamic and detailed with no real drawbacks 

so, As usual 

If I wanted to take the next step,  in Analog playback , at what level and price should I be looking at 

jeff 


frozentundra

Showing 7 responses by mijostyn

Jeff, if you want a definitive improvement it is a big jump. For a final purchase turntable and tonearm with a decent cartridge thrown in you are talking $10K. Until you are ready to spend that kind of money, spend it once and spend it right I think you should build your record collection as naimfan mentioned. In the mean while you can also listen, learn and window shop. 
@frozentundra , I can only tell you what I would buy for that money and I will try to give you reasons why
I would get a Sota Sapphire with the standard drive. If you really want to spend more on the eclipse package, it is your money but you will be hard pressed to notice a difference. Get it with Sota's refex clamp and dust cover.  The Sota Sapphire is a classic turntable. It was the very first suspended turntable to "hang" from it's suspension rather than sit on it like the Thorens and Linn turntables, a much more stable design. It was the first turntable that was totally immune to foot fall and just about everything else. It's dust cover is isolated from the sub chassis to which are mounted the platter and tonearm. You can and should use it during play. It further isolates playback from the environment. The Sota's suspension system was so good it was copied by both Basis and SME.
It is much less sensitive to whatever you place it on. You can strike it vertically with a hammer with the volume all the way up and you will not hear a thing. There is no alternative in this price range. The next step up would be the Sota Cosmos Vacuum followed by the Dohmann Helix.

I would put a Schroder CB tonearm on it. The Schroder is a brilliant design. It has great bearings in the right locations limiting warp wow, magnetic antiskating (no friction) and no unnecessary contacts between the cartridge and phono stage. It is a neutral balance arm, VTF does not change with elevation. It is, in spite of it's sophistication very simple looking. I love that.  Alternatives would be the Reed 2G and the Kuzma 4 Point 9

Next would be the cartridge. I would get a Soundsmith "The Voice"  It is a moderate output moving iron design with a top notch fine line stylus and ruby cantilever. It is a far better value than any moving coil cartridge in some ways there is no moving coil cartridge that can outperform it. It will be more dynamic and have a much better signal to noise ratio. I doubt there is a moving coil cartridge that can out track it. The Soundsmith is made in the States and service is reported to be excellent. Re tipping is relatively inexpensive. Alternatives would be the Clearaudio Charisma, a great rock and roll cartridge for sure and a grand less expensive than the Soundsmith. The least expensive moving coil cartridge I really like is the Ortofon Windfeld Ti. It is 1 grand more expensive than the Soundsmith and to get the best out of it one should have a current mode phono stage like the Channel D Lino C

In disclosure I have both a Schroder CB and Soundsmith Voice sitting in boxes waiting for their turntable, a Sota Cosmos Vacuum.
Pindac, I think you making life far more complicated than it needs to be.
First of all, how a turntable sounds under optimal conditions is not the only important characteristic to pay attention to. There are other issues that are very important such as how well is the cartridge isolated from the environment and how well does the tonearm track a warped record? How nice is the turntable to use? Can you put your hand down on it to cue a record? 
Much of a turntable's and tonearm's performance can be determined by just looking at them with a critical eye. They are in truth very simple mechanical devices. All good turntables with the same cartridge mounted under optimal conditions are going to sound pretty much the same...except maybe to audiophiles to whom hearing is synonymous to hallucinating.  
frozentundra, I think the Brinkmann Bardo is a beautiful design, it also is not suspended and has a huge magnet right under your cartridge, a very sensitive magnetic device. Ask Mark Dohmann why he does not use a direct drive motor on his Helix. Please watch this. It has some very basic turntable science explained beautifully. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rgK0YMsJXM
Dodgealum, very interesting turntable, pretty design, nightmare of a drive system. Even of the drive wheel where perfectly round and the solenoid engagement system perfectly tight when new, they won't stay that way. It will suffer just like idler drives. Notice how they waltz around stating wow + flutter and rumble specs. That is a strong indicator that they are not that great to begin with. No, I have not heard one. You can't hear even 1% of the turntables out there so you have to run on an analysis of the drive and design. It is also not suspended which kills it for me. Watch the video I link to above.

I have to say that at least the Technics SP 10R specs very well and is beautifully made. A new one is outside the OP's price range. The old one sounded just like what it was, a commercial radio station bullet proof direct drive turntable. Not my cup of tea. It would be a very interesting project building a suspended plinth for a new one. It is a shame this seems to be outside the capabilities of everyone making and selling plinths for it. They can't seem to get it through their heads that mass loading does not work.
But it is much harder to design and build a floating plinth which I believe is the reason no one does it (that I know of, please correct me if I am wrong) If someone has an SP 10 I would love to give it a spin, pun intended. 
Chakster, those feet are not isolation. The only thing they do is make the owner feel good. Many people gravitate toward old equipment. I have no idea why. Technology does not move backwards. I guess some people have romantic notions about the past they can not give up. I think you know how I feel about experts. 

Frozentundra, the Tri-planar is great tonearm, If I were to buy a Reed it would be the 2G, IMHO the best tonearm currently made is the Schroder LT. I hope to get one some day. I also have to get a turntable it will fit on like the Dohmann Helix. Check it out https://dohmannaudio.com/helix-one/  Notice what tonearms are on it. 
@chakster, it is very simple. If it does not bounce between 1 and 3 Hz it is not isolated and the amount of noise passed on by the environment is easy to see. Hook the output of your phono stage to an oscilloscope and put your stylus down on a record with the turntable stopped. Tap on your granite rack and watch the oscilloscope jump. All that wiggling going on in the background is environmental rumble. On any good suspended turntable you will not see any of it. The tracing won't be dead quiet as the cartridge is capable of picking up air currents in the room.  You can pick up an interstate highway up to a mile away depending on surface conditions. Have the wife turn on your dryer, watch the oscilloscope jump. Same for every mechanical device in the house. 
These are the only feet I have seen that represent a very intelligent design concept.https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/vibration-control/products/solid-tech-feet-of-silence   Assuming the spring rates can be specified for the weight of the turntable they should work fine and be very stable. Pricey but, if you have an unsuspended table you like, these would be a reasonable add on.