@schw06, if I’ve read through this thread correctly, did you say that you’re prepared to spend in the neighborhood of $15K to get what you’re looking for in a DAC? Now that’s a nice problem to have because IMO once you get into the world above $10k you’ve really got a lot of options and you can start considering Nagra, MSB, dCS, Chord DAVE, and the Mola Mola Tambaqui DACs, all of which are insanely good. If you start with a top shelf DAC and build your system around it, then you’ll have a stand-alone system that will last hopefully for years. The key is to be able to demo as many DACs as you possibly can without being in a hurry.
I built my system around a Chord Hugo TT2 DAC with a Chord M Scaler upsampler and WAVE High Fidelity Storm Reference BNC cables. The TT2 and the M Scaler both have Sbooster LPSU’s which are plugged into an AudioQuest Niagara power conditioner. Obviously this is far from a simple one-box plug and play solution. As if there is such a thing. But this is where my music journey took me and I’m pretty happy about how things came together.
Don’t be afraid to look at used equipment either. People who are obviously flush with way too much cash lying around sell super expensive high-end boutique audio gear at great prices just because they can.
|
If neutral means best measuring you can get that for a couple hundred bucks. Best sounding… well maybe subjective but not couple hundred bucks. Hooked up a Musician Aquarius yesterday and I have to say I’ve never heard digital sound this good. Good timing cause my vinyl rig is buzzing like an SOB and I don’t know what the issue is.
|
Don't you find the same issue with cartridges? As many people upstream mentioned, it is the marrying of the entire system and room that you try and create that neutral sound. A better question is what is "neutral" because I believe each person has their own opinion on this.
|
As jerrybj said Soekris 2541. Look under the hood of the Denifrips DACs. There sits a Soekris DAC!
|
The Auralic Vega is remarkably flexible and affordable. You can set it up a number of different ways, but it always comes off quite transparent. It really is a fantastic piece of gear.
|
In the past year there have been several extremely positive reviews on the Topping D90 SE/LE and Gustard X26 PRO DACS. All reviewers stated emphatically either of these two DACs were as neutral an anything they have ever heard. Granted around here neither of them are expensive enough to be considered for anything other than a paper weight, but you might be surprised based upon what I’ve read.
FWIW, I've owned R2R Ladder DAC's and at least the ones I've had were anything but neutral. I grew tired of their presentation quickly because quite a bit of detail and imaging were left on the table. Its not a road I would want travel down again.
|
What r2r dacs have you owned?
|
I hope you like the Schiit dac! It sounds like a reasonable choice. I heard the top Yiggy model that was out some 3-4 years ago and while it was neutral, the way it did neutrality left me a tad cold. It was a bit mechanical sounding. Just my experience and subjective to be sure. I am sure others find it magical as this passion of ours is subjective.
Here is something to think about. My experience with the Tron dac has educated me in ways I was previously ignorant about. It elevated my whole system and my enjoyment of it tremendously. I did not think a dac alone could do this. It has saved my wife and I money, time and effort in the end. Wish I would have purchased it a few years ago.
It’s not about slaying some never ending dragon, but rather deeper enjoyment and contentment in what you already have as a system. More money does not always, or even often, equal more fun and enjoyment of music and system. However, a special front end source can indeed elevate everything. Sometimes more money does pay off in the end and can be a wonderful value. As I get older I tire of buying and selling gear. I want to keep what I have and enjoy. Happy to say my Tron dac makes this possible for me.
Other less expensive dacs, compared to Tron, that I know to be quite good include:
Mojo Audio Mystique X ($7-$10k) A very special dac that can elevate an entire system nicely. Still rather expensive.
Merason Dac 1 ($5-$6k) Even handed and so very engaging.
Upgraded MHDT Orchid dac ( upgrade 10 key parts) $1500 or so. Upgrades make it more neutral and articulate.
|
@mofojo Holo Spring. Tried for 2 or 3 years to like the sound from this thing, but never did. Used every input available just didn't sound good. Have a friend who had the same experience with two of the Holo DAC's, and also one Denafrips. Each to their own I suppose but I'm done with R2R based upon those experiences.
Thanks
|
|
I am quite happy with my recent acquisition of the Weiss 502. I am not sure what neutral really means but the Weiss does get out of the way and does a great job of revealing what is in the recording. Tends to be in the “warm” side (Pass XA 160.8 amp and AR Ref 6 Pre.
|
@jerryg123 no thanks, I’m done with R2R. Pretty case work though.
|
@routlaw sounds even better. To many obstacles in the path of the DAC's you tried.
I am glad you found a DAC that works for you, to bad you wondered in the digital desert for so long.
Echo’s End is the perfect DAC when you want music to flow just as it does in nature. You don’t get harshness or masking by digital “same-ness.” What you do get is an easy-to-use, fully automatic digital-to-analogue converter whose sole purpose is to provide the best possible audio quality. You won’t find external buttons, nor lights, nor animated display screens. Echo’s End is fully automatic. Just connect a digital source such as USB, S/PDIF, or AES/EBU, and Echo’s End will automatically find the signal and convert it to beautiful analog sound. At the outputs you have directly converted analog signal, with absolutely no components in the signal path. No chips, no op-amp buffers, no caps, no transformers, nor any tubes.
The sound quality is fantastic. We’ve incorporated on-board Firewall modules, a special technology for conditioning power developed and manufactured exclusively by LessLoss. This raises the sonic performance to unbelievable levels. All parts in the Echo’s End, both mechanical and electrical, are fixed directly to wood, and point-to-point soldering allows for the smoothest possible signal flow, ensuring the most liquid audio reproduction imaginable.
|
@jerryg123 please understand I have not heard or personally experienced the Topping or Gustard DAC's mentioned earlier, just relaying what so many other reviewers have stated about those products being very neutral which is what the OP ask for. Not sure its a digital desert, but true I have owned many many digital components through the years and some from the most venerable companies in HiFi.
Its also worth noting a great many of these once highly revered digital audio companies promising the holy grail no longer exist. Lot of road kill through the years with many esoteric and boutique companies. The days for me spending dozens of thousands of dollars to experiment are long over as well. The ad quote above is all too familiar. Regardless enjoy.
Time to get back to the OP's opening question, neutral DAC's.
|
Whatever why I do not buy cheap stuff and I audition in my system I do not buy based on reviews or opinions expressed here.
LessLoss again.
|
Time to get back to the OP's opening question, neutral DAC's.
Report this
|
Source
|
Crane Song Solaris Quantum for $2K from Sweetwater. It is the sound of analog which is diff from neutrality which you asked about but you will be totally pulled into the sound.
The Nagra HD DAC is neutral based on comparing with master tape but at a quantum leap in price compared to the Crane Song. Your likely reaction is that the Nagra is more laid back than the Crane Song. To make an analogy to which prolly one 0.001 % of readers can relate it's like the diff between 468 and 456 tape. 468 is neutral to the point where upon first comparison you find it dull compared to 456. But upon long term listening you find it is more relaxed which is why a lot of pros go for 468. Especially for recording classical.
* difficult to get Crane Song. I guess it's three guys working out of a garage. Sweetwater is yr best bet for getting yr hands on some actual bird.
|
The most neutral DAC I have heard is the Rockna Wavedream. The edition and signature tonally are the same. You get more detail and an even bigger soundstage with the signature vs the edition.
the thing about the Wavedream is the sound profile doesn’t really stand out in any way. It is not bright nor is it warm. The sound isn’t full but it also isn’t thin. It isn’t forward but it isn’t laid back. Etc…. It is hard to describe the sound because of this and in fairness, some folks find this a bit boring as the DAC is so exceedingly uncolored.
I would say this is true across the dozens of DACs I have listened too ranging from the Khadas Tone 2 up to the MSB Reference.
|
I am not sure what neutral sounding is because that is subjective. I personally like my Shiit audio Byfrost DAC, which is very outclassed in this forum.
|
The most neutral DAC I have heard is the Rockna Wavedream. The edition and signature tonally are the same. You get more detail and an even bigger soundstage with the signature vs the edition.
the thing about the Wavedream is the sound profile doesn’t really stand out in any way. It is not bright nor is it warm. The sound isn’t full but it also isn’t thin. It isn’t forward but it isn’t laid back. Etc…. It is hard to describe the sound because of this and in fairness, some folks find this a bit boring as the DAC is so exceedingly uncolored.
I have a Wavedream Signature and agree it's very neutral, but "boring" is not a word I would associate with it. It's very dynamic and punchy. Sometimes it startles me a little when I start playing music, even though I'm expecting it, there's just so much more body and drive than any DAC I've owned previously.
Before the Wavedream I had an Aqua La Voce S3 which to me was also quite neutral and perhaps a little more affordable for most than a Wavedream.
|
