..just as a final note.... all vpi arms are very good.....the 3D arms are better still, and the addition of the 2nd pivot is even better. The gimaballed 3D arm is a bit different, but not better. The Fatboy is "icing on the cake".... The very real performance related effort should be in the meticulous setup of the arm - especially in azimuth which is sometimes overlooked, or haphazardly adjusted. I've heard lesser cartridges outperform multi thousand dollar units by quite a margin with setups done by "pros". If done with care, owners could/should do their own setup, check their results, and in a few months, check it again.
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TZh, Yes. Read all about it on the internet. As I recall, this applied to the first "batch" of 3D tonearms, and last I read, VPI claims/claimed the problem has been solved. Stringreen et al probably know more about this problem than I do. |
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If anyone is having trouble with the 3D tonearm and can't get a replacement, you can contact me or send a PM to me. I might be able to restore it back to the original condition. Please send a pictures of your tonearm. |
Too blue..... with the 2nd pivot you adjust azimuth with the 2nd pivot adjusting screw.. The warping of the 3D may be common. Mine did as well, and was quickly replaced.
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I had a classic 2 with 3D arm. The first generation with plastics finger lift is more prone to melting/warping. They then switched to metal lift on next generation. From what I understand they have a problem melting in transit in hot conditions. If you look at first generation you will notice the arm tube closest to head shell is smaller in diameter. I talked to vpi and was told they will only replace arm if contacted right after arm was shipped and buyer experiences deformation while in warranty. They may have changed policy since my dealing with them couple years ago. I find that unacceptable if they know there is a problem with longevity of there product, good luck, I hope they resolve your issues quickly.
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I'm experiencing the same thing, and this the second arm due to the first one warping. I just asked for a second replacement. I let you know how that goes. |
I agree with tooblue's assessment of the SDS and HRX pulley (3 belts for me) - both have been added to my Aries 3 table. VPI is a case study for customer service that some larger corps should follow. |
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, looking forward to seeing your setup. |
The SDS is kind of hard to pigeon hold to what it adds, it is suttle but still an upgrade and does give you the peace of mind that the speed is firm and the power is clean although expensive, in my mind worth it plus it gives you 45 rpm without moving the belt. The HRX pulley with two belts was a very cost effective upgrade upgrade that was not shuttle at all.
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fc911c, bear with me I am waiting on my headphone amp to be shipped from Yamamoto in Japan and I will post my system in it's entirety when that arrives because system will be complete at that point. Also bear in mind that as good as the 10.5 arms are the 3D is the premium arm and even with the issues I have had VPI has shown nothing but great customer support.
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Thanks tooblue for the information. Could you post some pictures of your new arm? I too have the ring and the hrx clamp no SDS though. I would like to get an SDS can you explain what it did to improve your setup? |
fc911c, these 3D arms have gone thru 3 or 4 different iterations, three that I know of. The first being the one with the arm lift molded in the second one going with the metal arm lift that bolts on with the cart and the third with the thicker headshell, a work in progress you might say. I to came from a Scoutmaster with SDS, perifial ring and BDR record clamp and loved it but always wanted to try the 10.5 arm versus the 9 arm and as good as the 9 is the 10.5s are sooooo much better and when you add the perifial ring, SDS and a good record clamp it is really sweet.
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My question would be if the table is only four months why does it still have the older arm? I was considering this table as an upgrade from my ScoutMaster II and would like conformation that it will come with the updated arm.
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This topic caused me to carefully look at my 3D arm - my arm was produced prior to the newer design. I use a Ortofon cadenza Black with my 3D arm - a heavy cartridge at 10.7g which causes me to use a heavy counter weight. The heavy CtW caused my stub to bend downward and therefore would affect my VTF. I checked weekly and would get a different reading and now I know why. I contacted my dealer who then worked closely with VPI CS (Mat) and I now have a newly designed arm n the way to replace my current 3D arm. My arm was less than a year old. Great service by VPI and in this day of expensive audio gear it is refreshing to know a company stands behind its product - a legacy left behind by Harry etal. |
HW- Thanks for weighing in and clarifying the situation. I’m a Prime owner (w/3D arm) and have a few questions: Quote: "We now have 3200 3D arms made and shipped with a twisting rate of roughly 1% (almost all in the first year)".
This would seem to imply that it is a manufacturing defect rather than a design problem. If it is a defect, then can you tell us at which serial number and/or date of mfr you made the correction? Also, what was the cause of the defect and how was it cured? If it is not a manufacturing defect, then wouldn’t all of the tone arms potentially have this problem? Maybe the rate is higher than 1%, they just haven’t been discovered as of yet (mine does not have this problem, but I also haven’t exposed it to direct sunlight or heat). Are the tone arms made by VPI or by WM Manufacturing like your other components? Any follow up would be greatly appreciated. |
I guess I'm one of the 1%! I had a VPI 3D tonearm that warped at the headshell. I sent it back to VPI and they replaced it immediately, no hassle. I have found in a short time of dealing with VPI that their customer support is more than fair, so if you're interested in a 3D tonearm I wouldn't let the "Takata twist" get in the way.
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I will say that the new jmw 9 is a fantastic arm. Sounds and tracks extremely well. I am very impressed with it. Much better than the original with more effective mass. I am very impressed with this arm. Not to change the subject or anything like that. |
HW, sorry if I over-reached. Assuming that there have been continuous improvements that eliminate the problem, I would think owners would want more information on the range of serial numbers affected. Also, heat, cold, and sun can be "normal conditions" during shipping and sometimes even in listening rooms during winter or summer. If I owned one from an older production run that is at risk, I would be looking for a pre-emptive replacement. |
We now have 3200 3D arms made and shipped with a twisting rate of roughly 1% (almost all in the first year) so Mr. dgarretson you have no clue what you are talking about.
When you deal with new technology, in areas never used before, you will always have a learning curve but the quality of the customer care is what separates a poor company from a good one. We stand behind everything we make and routinely repair and replace parts on tables 35 years old.
Let's try to keep the BS down to a low roar and the back biting to your partners. VPI is one of the few companies still around and still supporting its customers. BTW, in the next business crash we will still be here supporting our customers.
If you need longer screws tell Marc to send you some!!!!!
HW |
VPI has fantastic customer support. |
Nice that HW chimed in, but you are all too generous. The 3D twists like a Takata airbag. |
Yeah the heashell is thicker and the tube itself seems just a tad beefier, I say that because it is a very firm fit when I slip it into the arm rest. Just set the ZYX Universe up in the 3D arm and my Dynavector DRT XV1S in the stainless steel Classic arm wand with a Mint Protractor, have about 20 hours on the new arm and seems to have burnt in, no complaints, the 3 D arm is the better sounding arm overall so I will wait a year or so, sell the Classic arm and start looking for another 3D arm as long as this one maintains it's shape.
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How long has VPI been making pickup arms? And they still can't make a headshell correctly? |
My 3D arm began bending too. I sent pictures to them and they sent me the new one with the thicker head shell. Now I too need longer screws. |
Have not mounted a cart on it yet because the Soundsmith knurled
mounting screws that I used with the XYZ Universe are not long enough
now that the arm is much thicker at the mount. I experienced the same issue, though not with Soundsmith mounting screws. The 3D arm has a very thick headshell, and none of my mounting screws for a Ortofon cartridge were long enough. I ordered some more hardware, crisis averted. |
Just received my new arm from VPI and it is quite a bit thicker at the headshell portion of the arm, the counter weight stem is also without any groves and flat spots that the original arm had. Have not mounted a cart on it yet because the Soundsmith knurled mounting screws that I used with the XYZ Universe are not long enough now that the arm is much thicker at the mount. I will shave some of the knurled cap of the screws down on the underside to lengthen the screw portion and mount it this weekend.
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So if we use a tonearm for toilet linkage it may or may not bend, check with your plumber:). Sorry I couldn't resist!
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Not all copper is. Speak to your plumber. |
Copper is very malleable, Harry... ;^) This is why they always attached toilet cistern ballcocks with copper rods because they were easily bent with bare hands to alter the trigger threshold for the overflow... ;^) |
Thank you Harry for responding. |
I will Harry and if you would please view the pics I sent to Marc they are quite revealing. My arm should be back at VPI so you can look at it as well. Thanks for your response. |
I personally have 10 3D arms in all lengths and will tell you the armtube has a 1/4" copper tube running through it so it cannot bent or twist. The headshell is the only part that can bend when confronted with heat, cold, or sun. Under normal conditions they do not move at all. If yours twisted you will get a new one even if you bought it years ago because we stand behind everything we make. Make sure Marc sends you a new one. HW |
This was not a shipping issue. |
My 3D arm is functioning perfectly. Everyone...even VPI is awarded a screw up from time to time... This however, could have been done from shipping....VPI will support you.
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Dover said :
"This raises the question of whether both the stylus and your records have been damaged - not good. For example - if a cartridge miss-tracks once, the record is permanently damaged." Reply : You're probably right about minor damage occurring but once the arm & cart are properly set up or e.g. the cleanliness issue is removed by deep cleaning, it's unlikely you'll ever be able to hear any signs of damage. (As long as it's a one-off playback and not persistently exposed to the same mistake.) I could be wrong of course but I've had situations like this and the LP has come up smelling of roses afterwards - as if the mistracking never happened. It's always easy to pick out those moments for "analysis" during replay because it invariably happens on peaks.
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Make sure that the arm is installed correctly on the table. I have dislodged mine accidentally from the pivot needle and the arm will obviously be off balance. It took me a few seconds to realize that I had dislodged it.
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You know Dover you are absolutely right, that is a possibility but I was on top of it and the system is so resolved that it was detectable by ear as the cart would lose it's adjustment. Both the carts used with the bad arm have been dialed in and played on my Classic arm and am sure they are fine, I know them both very well and they are gorgeous. |
the issue of this arm losing its azimuth settings and having to be reset about every two weeks the issue just got so severe that it could not be adjusted out and really obvious visually. This raises the question of whether both the stylus and your records have been damaged - not good. For example - if a cartridge miss-tracks once, the record is permanently damaged. |
Yeah I am of the same mind, don't rock the boat an all, they have already said they will be sending me a new one and that they are going to cut into the damaged arm to test and diagnose. Do bear in mind I have been working with them since 9/2015 on the issue of this arm losing its azimuth settings and having to be reset about every two weeks the issue just got so severe that it could not be adjusted out and really obvious visually. |
TooBlue...Lol! .That should speed up the manufacturers response time ;^)
Personally, if I get a problem like this I tend to keep it low profile lest it affect the resale value of the item. ;^) :D ...Not to mention the value of the Company. ;^) ..But, like Miner42, I'm still curious... :) |
Yeah I will post some pics, please be patient with me and I will get that done shortly. I am of the old school, literally and fumble around on computers but have been getting better lately. |
Can you post your pic of arm here for other 3D arm owners to compare? I know I would like to see it. Feel free to send to my contact info. |
Dear TooBlue, So, their first instinct was to ask YOU what happened??? That was helpful! :(
Good to hear they've taken steps to rectify it. Hope this solves your problem.
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Poor QC!
Get a replacement.
VPI has good customer support.
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Just sent the arm back to VPI today by FedEx, Marc looked at the pictures and asked me what happened but they seem to be willing to replace the arm. I am thinking this had something to do with the resin/material that is used to make the arm and maybe not cured or allowed to set in the ideal conditions, but what do I know, that's right I know I have a warped arm. |
Right...there is no difference in sound between the 2....the metal finger lift was added because the of shipping problems..otherwise they are the same.
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I am sorry jmcgrogan2 started to ramble and did not answer your question. I do have the newer arm, table was bought new 7/2015, and it has the metal finger lift that bolts on with the cart. |
Miner42 is right that the arm with the molded in finger lift was the early version and was soon updated to the metal bolt on one but do not know the reason why, I do know that VPI stated there is no sonic difference in the two approaches. After going to the VPI forum I found there are other people with arms that have started to morf out of shape, the headshell seems to be where it shows itself. I love the 3D arm and am hoping for the best and am sure that VPI will take care of me on this issue.
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