My new B Stock speakers

I don't know about your phase question, but my advice, don't drive yourself crazy.

INVOLVING, that's my fundamental criteria (and summation of all descriptive adjectives that I, like you, avoid).

Your description indicates that you find the new Revels more Involving than your prior speakers.

DONE!

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B-Stock. Hmmm, what I would want to check/know is how well the drivers are matched/balanced, from low frequencies up to high frequencies, midrange the most important. I'd like to know even if they were not B-stock.

Assuming you know your listening space, and have found the positions they sound best (not necessarily same location as the B&W). Remember, front ports/rear ports are very different.

Definitely no sub for this evaluation. I would also stuff the ports for listening to the drivers without the port sounds.

Female Voices (Linda Ronstadt a perfect voice for this), I also use Cassandra Wilson, Annie Lennox, a few others): you do not want some frequencies stronger on one side than the other. You don't want the imaging to wander l or r as their voices go thru a range of frequencies.

Listen, no obvious wander, DONE.

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IF a problem, if you notice l/c/r wander more than a few times, IOW, the singer is not moving about on stage) what to do?

1st document each speaker's individual driver's output using tools, not ears. Ears will always be final.

a. Inexpensive SPL Meter, Tripod, Listening Location, Seated Ear Height

Meter needs hole for tripod screw

Doesn't have to be precise or even calibrated, it will show you relative volume changes for any frequencies you compare.

b. TEST CD (not lp) with individual frequencies, this one, tracks 9-38 (29 1/3 octave frequencies)

amazing bytes test cd:

Make a chart, record left speaker results, right speaker results. Don't look for perfection, just find anything more than a little different.

Important: Is the difference the speakers???

Switch speaker wires at amp end. Repeat, differences the same, then it is not anything else in the chain, thus the speakers.

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How to solve it?

IF you have meaningful differences, come back, let us know, experienced suggestions will follow.

 

It's a great feeling when you buy a new piece of equipment and you actually like it... especially speakers. No idea why the phase difference with the test CD. Sounds like the Revel's are doing it right though. Congratulations on the new speakers. I hope they give you 30 years of enjoyment. 

86 Db is not sensitive at all. "Easy to drive" does not always mean sensitive. It may mean impedance is not very complex so most amplifiers will be able to handle the speaker. But amp may not have enough power for the speaker to play loud or handle transients. Sensitive I'd say, is 90 Db+

Thanks, @james633  !  I will definitely give that a read!  I asked about positioning, I think it was on AA a year or so ago, and someone gave me a formula, and I wound up hating it and wound up where I started, but I will give this a serious read.  

I do have a M&K highpass that I bought after I bought the sub (that is going way back before the B&Ws) and I had a smaller amp back then and it helped that amp out a lot, but somehow/somewhere down the line I changed things up (bigger amps) and I started using the XLRs and my high pass has only RCAs, so I guess I quit using it then.   But I liked what I heard without it, so I stayed without it.  

I have never tried the SLP05 NOT using the balanced input tube slots, and I have some absolutely delicious sounding '55 Sylvania "Bad Boys" I only have a pair) in those slots, and I hate to NOT use them. But  I guess nothing ventured/nothing gained.  I just hate making choices though.

Thanks again for that link!  I will be seriously looking at it hopefully tomorrow!

25” should be a good spot. Measuring from the driver’s face to the wall is typical. Genelec has the best setup guide I have ever read (link below). Skip to about 1/2 way down and read the “Wall Reflections and Cancellations” section. In that section it explains why the distance from the front wall should change with and without a sub  

 

Subs can be tricky but well worth it. If you are not high-passing (limiting the extension of the speakers with a filter) 50hz looks like the right pace to use a sub since the F10 (-10db point) of the speaker is 44hz. Much higher than 50hz and you will get over lap with the main and really should use a highpass at that point… maybd something to try later.

 

@erik_squires , yes, they did have a pair open box Focal "booksheves", I guess that when I thought that the Revels were made in America that was why I leaned that way. (that and the fact, I hate to sayit, that the Revels were few hundred less). But yes, I always check out MDs open box/B stock/factory refurb section when they send me their emails . . . factory refurb is actually how I ended up with the SA10.

I had recently seen an open box pair of floor standing 3 way Focals that were on the smallish side for floor standers, and they were within the $ range I could justify, but then I read MDs review and they said that they were intended for rooms of at least 270 square feet, and other reviews I found on line suggested not for near field. Plus, a very real concern I have for a small room is what if too much bass? I mean with two ways and a sub I can always turn the sub up or down. I will say that a few years after I got those B&Ws of mine (and I used to run them in a larger room) I got to seeing 2 way speakers and subs as a compromise, but now I think that in this room it may be a compromise I am almost forced to make.

But I am liking what I am hearing so far!

It's worth keeping an eye on MD, as they often have closeouts on brand new speakers.  You can get some stellar deals.  I think they also routinely carry Focal's closeouts as well.

I did say I was looking for an excuse to send them back.

Best of luck in your search.

@cdc  , I don't think I am looking anymore!

@soix , yeah man! What you said was what I was thinking! Now I am wishing that for all that listening I had been doing since I took my system out of mothballs in ’17, I hadn’t had been cheating myself out of what I think is going to turn out to be a lot of ear-pleasure! I am excited about this! And yes, I will enjoy!

To add to my initial impressions, I started them out with a couple of CDs I usually only put on to warm up my stuff while I am doing other stuff--jazz (what form I am ignorant of)--the Blazing Red Heads and then the Rippingtons, and I was in and out of the room for those two red books, but what I noticed when I was out of the room, was how much livelier (to use another what I am sure is a cliche) than it sounded before when I was just using those CDs to warm stuff up for ’the serious listening.’ Maybe lively isn’t the right word, but how pronounced the music sounded, especially I noted on those shaker things that I guess are part of the percussion. See, I wasn’t joking--I really do not know how to describe this stuff.

And they certainly seemed to me to look as if NIB--the speaker grilles were still wrapped nicely and it looked to me undisturbed from where ever they originated before MD. (but I make no claims to be an authority on that) and am I correct in assuming that they were B stock because the serial numbers were so far apart, meaning that they are not a matched pair?

@james633 , I actually was surprised . . . the reason I waited so long to initially play them, besides the weather, was I thought I was going to be disappointed and I made excuses to put off the initial session. You sent me a links to Harman Curves when I posted a question a while back ago inquiring if anyone knew anything about these particular Revels. I have to be honest with you and say that all of that is pretty much Greek to me, but now I am going to go back to that post I made and re-read.

As far as placement, I haven’t goofed around with at at all (yet). I left the stands where they were with the B&Ws which had rear face of the cabinet about 25" (give or take a few sixteenth’s either way) from the wall. They are in an imperfect world (and that is putting it mildly), but I am completely infatuated at this point in our relationship. (I had the B&Ws pulled out as far into the small room as I could, as I thought that would be more helpful for soundstage).. But I will play with that. I will also follow your suggestions with the low pass filter on the sub, but for a while I just want to listen without the sub. What I will say for the B&Ws was that: with a good digital source (meaning usually SACDs, and I do not have a TT) there was height and width and a bloom. But I have not played my best stuff yet (I want to break them in more) and after what I heard today, I am expecting what the B&Ws did with good stuff, plus MORE!

Anyway, after hearing what I heard today, I am thinking that what comes after this may have to be a way to add some treatments. A while back ago I did actually cover the tile floor with throw rugs, and I think that as this room is probably over lively, the next thing to try to adjust would be absorption on the front wall.

Anyway, I appreciate the link (and the previous links you sent) and I am going to take as serious a look as I am capable of and I appreciate the placement and sub low pass adjustment suggestions.

 

I did say I was looking for an excuse to send them back.

Best of luck in your search.

I am glad you like them. It does not surprise me at all that you prefer the Revel. The Revel is simply smoother on and off axis not to mention many years of development.  The Harman curves which drops about 5db from bass to treble is really about perfect for my tastes. It allows them to be loud but never fatiguing. 
 

The 128be is a bit of a bass shelf from 100hz to 50hz (measurements linked below) and are most likely designed to be somewhat close to a wall. If you have them far out into the room maybe try your crossover as high as 100hz if you are using a highpass. If they are 2’-ish from the front wall maybe try 70hz. I ran my Revel 228be highpased at 63hz with a 24db highpass. 

On a side note of another B&W vs Revel comparison, I thought the 228be with a pair of JL subs out performed the 802D4 (both on Mac gear). The revel is a lot smoother. The 802 made male vocals sound pretty thin and the tipped up highs were pretty noticeable. The JL subs just sealed the deal for shear power. The only place the 802 did better was with much more sound stage depth, width was about the same. Now the 802 is one amazingly built speaker and looks the part and the revel looks pretty average. 
 

https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/revel_m126be/

If they’re new, and sounds like they are, they’ll need around 100 hours or so of playing time to break in and sound more like what they’re capable of and will probably continue to improve for a few hundred hours or so past that.  In other words, if you like what you’re hearing now it should get even better from here.  Enjoy!

Best of luck with your new speakers.

Thank you, @stereo5  !

Best of luck with your new speakers.