My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
I should have them end of next week. I have also been told that the hegel h30 is far superior to the pass Labs x350.8. I've heard both stories. I've heard from former owners who said their Hegel is more narrow sounding than their current x350.8 and ive also heard that some say the hegel h30 is more resolving than the pass Labs. Not sure if anyone has done a true comparison between both ? the review for the 536s is on their website. You should be able to find a link for it there.
Alright guys, i wanted to share with everyone that i had purchased a Hegel H30 power amp to do a true a/b comparison against my 350.8 pass labs and so it turns out that the same seller had the amp i had been looking for... I tried hard to find this amp and finally found it. The LUXMAN M900U. I have heard OUSTANDING things about this amp and i also decided to pull the trigger on the matching LUXMAN C900U preamp. Next week it will be a serious amplifier comparison and preamp comparison since i should have the audio research reference 6 next week. it will be one hell of a comparison and several trusted ears have told me the luxman combo will demolish anything else i have owned (including the xs150 amps) in terms of detail, finesse, depth, soundstage and smoothness. I am looking forward to this and can't wait to see what this amp can do. Very excited!
ok guys, i received the luxman gear last friday and fired it up right away. My initial impressions:
Luxman 900u preamp & amp: MIND BLOWING. DID I SAY MIND BLOWING? I MEANT F@CKING AMAZING!. I have yet hear a better midrange from ANY of my amplifiers. That said, let's not forget i did not get to own the pass labs xs preamp so i never really knew how those amps could have sounded with the matching pre. I only used the mark levinson no52 reference. I am willing to say that THESE ARE THE BEST 150 WATTS i have heard in my life. I did a shoot out yesterday between the luxman combo vs the mark levinson no536s and classe cam600s which i also connected to the luxman preamp and the classe came dead last in this shoot out. It was either not a good match with the preamp or it just simply got outclassed by the rest of the amps. I had several people come over and we all listened to a couple of songs and i switched between the luxman, classe, and mark levinsons (no pass labs yet) and everyone had the luxman ahead. They all said the same thing: the luxman puts the artist right in the middle of your living room. They also said the luxman sounded "cleaner" and just more of an engaging feeling. Anyhow, the luxman has officially retired my classe cam600s (will be up for sale soon) and now i am listening to the pass labs, but i want it to be playing for a full 2-3 hours before i do a serious listening session. That said, the little bit of A/B that i did after just one hour of having the pass labs playing, the luxman IS STILL ahead by displaying SPECTACULAR MIDS & HIGHS. Let's wait and see if the pass labs x350.8 closes the gap when i come back in 2 hours and try it again. BIG SHOCKER GUYS! The luxman combo has really hit one out of the park from the get go for me so far. Let's wait and see what transpires when i bring out the levinsons out again today. I need to do a lot of a/b comparisons before i give my final verdict.
George, I think the JC 1 monoblocks run as class A in low bias to 10 watts, 25 in high bias. I run them in low bias for LCR in a surround setup driving a pair of KEF Reference 107/2s and 204/2C.
I use an Ayre VX-5 Twenty to drive a pair of KEF LS50s in a stereo setup. I'm wondering how this amp would compare to the JC 1s in driving the 107/2s. The preamp would be an Ayre KX-5 Twenty whereas the JC -1s are used with a Parasound JC 2 BP. I know I could move a lot of equipment and try it, but does anyone have an insight absent that exercise?
Exciting news about the Luxman gear! I'm still curious though what you would think of the higher powered Pass Labs XA gear in your system, especially with a Pass Labs preamp. Loving the journey!
By the way, I have my Plinius Odeon new, and I can tell it is something special. It's like a new amp though, since they did an upgrade to it, so I'm giving it some more time. More to come...
hi thezaks, i told you the Odeon is amazing. It is one incredible amplifier and you can be sure THERE IS NO BETTER MULTI CHANNEL AMPLIFIER out there. NONE.
Anyhow, i have an update for everyone. I received the audio research reference 6 today and have been listening to it for the past 2 hours and my "preliminary" findings are these:
1. I am not impressed by the audio research reference 6/mark levinson no536 combination 2. The audio research has great low end punch and the mids are certainly there, but the highs are not anywhere as detailed as the highs that i obtain from the luxman 900u preamp.
That said, i can begin to form an opinion that is certainly premature and unless things start to somehow "change" in terms of sound over the next few days, i can say that the luxman 900u amp & preamp is OUTSTANDING to say the least. It just sparkles beautifully without any sort of harshness. Maybe i have been "poisoned " by it? Anyhow, if i had to make a call and decide on something tonight, i would take the luxman pieces ALL DAY LONG over the levinson amp and audio research. What i will be doing next is to use the audio research with the pass labs 350.8 and luxman amp and see if the reference 6 preamp sounds better with these amps than the luxman preamp does.
I don't like to admit it, but the Japanese hifi gear i have here is shockingly killing the all American competition. The only amp that i can say has put up a fight has been the pass x350.8. I actually had the wife blindfolded last night and had her listen to all 3 amps, at the same volume, same song and after her first round she said "amp # 3" does not sound good at all. It lacks sparkle and detail and well amp # 3 was the levinson... i then proceeded to play the luxman and pass labs again in order for her to choose the winner and she said she couldn't because they sound too close that it is hard to tell. I think there is some truth to that because you have to find songs where you can hear the finesse of the Luxman. I personally find the Luxman more organic and it feels as if it separates things a bit better than the pass labs. Also, one thing to add is that the pass labs amps takes a full day to hit its stride while the luxman begins to sound incredible within one hour of playing. That is certainly something to think about it. If i turn both amps on after being off for a few days, the luxman kills the pass labs. The pass labs closes the gap a day later though.
4b3 would be closer to a classe 2200. The new bryston units have laid back highs now as opposed to their sst2 series. Great amps with great reliability. If I were building a serious home theater that played movies all day long, bryston would be the amps I choose. They just work like horses and hardly ever break. As far as music, I think they're good but they're not at the pass labs, krell evolution, bhk level. I find them not as refined but this doesn't mean they're not good.
hi guys, i have been listening to everything you can imagine in order to figure out which set up i want to keep:
1. Luxman 900u amp & pre 2. Pass labs amp & Audio research preamp
Both are awesome at what they do and yes they present everything very differently. The pass labs / audio research combo sounds big, with great bass, nice sparkling highs and does not disappoint. The luxman set up sounds different. It brings more depth from front to back with anything you play. It gives you a sense of the space where the recording took place. It also gives you amazing silkiness with great midrange. Although the soundstage isn't as big as the pass labs / audio research combo, it presents it in an amazing way. I could live happily with either set up.
i also wanted to update everyone about the 536 Mark Levinson monos: I simply did not like them with b&w d3s. I found them too relaxed sounding, too laid back and i was using the audio research reference 6 preamp which has amazing highs, but i just couldn't get into the levinsons. I had different people come by to listen and every time i went from the levinsons to either the pass labs or the luxman, people chose the luxman or pass labs. They all said the same thing which was that it seems as if the levisons lose the sparkle up top. im not saying they are bad amplifiers, but they just do not fight well against the pass labs or luxman. however, you wouldn't know this unless you had another amp to compare it to right away... I have the levinsons in 3rd place, luxman and pass labs very close in sound with the edge going to pass labs because of the added horsepower, but not because of anything else.
Another pre-amp to add to your "must audition" list is the Esoteric Grandioso C1. I have been listening to the C-900U for the last 2 weeks, A/B it against the C1. While C-900U is very good, the C1 still have the upper hands when it come to vocals and sounstage.
Once you decide between Luxman and Pass, do you think you'll get a Hegel H30 to compare? I'm really interested in this for my Salon 2s. Currently running JC1s.
Right now, i have a big battle in my hands. The Luxman combo vs the pass labs and audio research combo is by far the hardest decision i have had to make. The luxman is superb in may ways and one thing i like about the preamp is that the volume increases little by little which allows you to set it exactly where you want it and with the audio research it is harder because it increases/decreases in larger steps. I also like the fact that the luxman has the bass and treble knobs which nowadays are a rarity to find on most preamps. The value i find on these knobs is that sometimes we have speakers that need more oomph and so it is great to be able to add a little more bottom end. Lastly, the "loudness" feature on the preamp is AMAZING to say the least. I know some of you have the wife that complains that the music is too loud at night and so having to turn it down really sucks because you lose alot of the detail and bottom end. Well, with the loudness feature it actually " resuscitates" the sound at low volumes. You get all the detail and bass at low volumes.
If you get a Dartzeel NHB-18NS that REF 6 will be on Audiogon the next day. GUARANTEED...wont be a fair fight!!
Thanks for the recommendation of the ODEON. I contacted Plinius and they hooked me up with their tech here in the USA who had a spare. He's gonna do the "ultimate" upgrade on it for me so I will be all set for my 4.0 and 5.1 1970's stuff. Much appreciated!
I have about 280 hrs. It sounds great but my only complaint is that the volume does not increase in small Steps. I wish it increased or decreases on a smaller scale. It is an outstanding preamp though. I may bring out my classe cam600s and connect them to this preamp. One thing most people should realize is that I am doing direct a/b comparisons.
Reference 6 was definitely less dynamic, less detailed, less transparent, less fully extended or resolving in the upper octaves than the darTZeel—which costs more than twice as much
You will like your new Odeon - I received one too with the Ultimate Upgrade about a month or two ago. Dynamics like you would not believe and great transparency. It will make you rethink your cables and other equipment, because it is more revealing of differences.
I see the Luxman for sale" all assume you chose the Pass / Audio Research combo which is a highly regarded combo here on Audiogon and other forums. Years ago Iran the original Pas X350 / Audio Research Ref 1 combo.
I will agee with you on the Japanese stuff and am currently running Accuphase 3800 pre / A65 combo.
Hi Guys, the Luxman amplifier has officially been sold and it is quite a spectacular amplifier. It is really insane and beyond beautiful. I still have the preamp, but i suspect it will also be gone soon enough. Anyhow, i decided to keep the Audio Research ref 6 & pass labs x350.8 combo. This does not mean it is superior than the luxman sound. It is just different sounding. Think of it as what exhaust sound do you prefer, the sound of a ferrari engine or a big block engine? Both sound amazing, but it is all subjective at this point.
As far as the ml532h vs 4b3, i owned both and again they are quite different. If you are looking for a sledge hammer of an amp that can drive just about anything out there with plenty of control , the bryston fits the bill, but if you are looking for a lot of detail, sparkle at moderate to low volumes then the mark levinson.
well, right now i am working out a deal on a pair of speakers that would be the most expensive speakers i have ever owned. All i will say is that they retail at more than 40k. :) and they are current models that have been out in the market for about 1 year and a half. This would indeed involve the mark levinson 536s monos so i think they will soon be gone too. I am stepping into unfamiliar territory, but i had to move a few pieces in order to gather the funds. Right now it is not official, but stay tuned...
In the $4-$6k range Vastly under rated the Son of Ampzilla mk-2 I not only has plenty of power on hand and can go down to under 2ohms .they have 4- 10 amp fuse rails ,2 per channel and run in pure class A until past 10 watts. Under heavy load the amp can draw 800 watts. TONS OF CURRENT . The Huge 2,000 vs transformer is bigger then most, and 12 bipolor output transistors not only gives it s refined sound but also a very detailed presentation. As TAS magazine says a for sure Golden Ear Award winner !! Running my 4 hours a Sonus Faber Olympica-3 speakers ,or ML Montis electrostatic. Bought from Underwood Wally, great deal. The big Ampzilla monoblocks I would put against any brand in the $12'k price range they are Very good amplifiers.
After perusing this thread pretty quickly I would like to make a few comments. 1. No audition of Jeff Rowland 625 S2 or S1. First Jeff is an american audio icon and contrary to a comment made about rowland research resale it's perhaps the best in holding its value. Try to find a 625 used or new at a good price. Not out there. Built like no other. 2. Unless i missed it I can't imagine not auditioning a D'Agostino amp. Another american icon. Try a master classic or a used momentum stereo. built like rowland. 3 You really must audition Dartzeel. Either the CTH8550 integrated or legendary NHB 108b. Correct matching powerwise required here. Not made for low impedances below 4ohms. This gear is up in audio thin air as is Rowland and D'Agostino. 4. finally the pass 250.8 i auditioned did not light my fire. a good solid state amp but not distinguished in my humble opinion. and lord is pass available used. they are discounted so much upfront that a resell is competing w a dealer. i don't like that. Sorry for the long winded post and of course it only represents my opinion.
hi there, i had a chance to own a pair of rowland 925s, but i passed on the chance because i had pass labs xs150 monos. I still would like to try the momentums, but again i have not found a good deal through my multiple connections. Remember one thing, one of the ways that i am able to stay on top of this game is because of the huge network of dealers that i do business with. I've spent well over 100,000 dollars this year alone so yes i get deals that a lot of you will never see unless of course you are doing the same kind of business i do. With all that said, right now i am prepared to buy the most expensive speakers i have ever owned and so the pass labs 350.8 and audio research ref 6 will be my 2 pieces for the time being. As soon as i can get a deal on momentums, they will certainly make their way to me. I think pass labs is great stuff so i am a little shocked you didnt like the 250.8. however, i suppose we all have different flavors.
I liked the pass. Just not as much as Agostino Rowland and Dartzeel.. The only thing I had to compare to the Pass at the same time was the Krell Chorus 5200 in two channel mode. I thought they were comparable and both good sounding Class A solid state units. Solid state is so good now I would never go tube amp. Dartzeel pre so good I wouldn't consider tubes either. But big money unless you can find a version 1 used. They fly out the door on AGON. ARC once described tubes as being like light bulbs that can pop at any time. I crank sometimes and would be unrelaxed knowing that. No need to take a chance with my speakers...Just my two cents.
I've said it multiple times here, stop believing everything you read on the magazines. Marketing is a big business that taints the true facts about any particular product. You should only read to inform yourself and not buy thinking that the product will perform in your house exactly as the reviews stated. I used the Revel Salon 2s as an example because i thought they were really poor sounding in my room. The Dynaudio contour c4s demolished the revel salon 2s in my room. My buddy also hated the revel studio 2s and he also said they had no bass. Just my .02 cts
Can the pass xa30.8 equal the Luxman in the midrange for detail, smoothness and dimensionality? I don't play that loud and listen late night in a condo! But I need to re arrange my equipment rack to accommodate the deep chassis of the amps. That's why I'm looking into say a luxman m600a same power as pass. Or coda S5.5 or Son of Ampzilla II.
At low listening levels, say around 87 decibels and below, the Luxman is hard to best. Class a amps come really close but in my opinion the heat is too much to handle if you are only going to be listening at low volume. It's like buying a 800 horsepower mustang and only driving it at 30 mph... it's a waste of gas if you can't put the pedal to the metal. Some amps are built to be driven hard in order to hear what they're made of. That said, I'd still take the Luxman at low volume listening levels. However, I don't recommend only buying the amp and not the preamp. The Luxman amp sounds best with the matching preamp. However, the preamp sounds awesome with any amp. Pass labs are still the best amps for the money. These amps can put up a fight to any amp regardless of price. I almost feel the need to always have a pass labs amp on hand just because they are an excellent benchmark.
What what a crazy world audio is. I feel that the Revel Salon 2 to be very high on any list of great speakers. In all truthfulness if the sound heard from them is not inspiring something is wrong elsewhere. Period.
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