Nice review. I agree with your comments - especially the Luxman.
While a 31K source might not be limiting, have you considered your speakers? This particular Wilson (Sasha 2) is my favourite Wilson but it is not the last word in resolution. Harshness can easily come from the speaker...especially when driven hard. A different speaker might give you a different result.
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Very nice review indeed. Like shadorne, I think maybe you should try something like a pair of Sopra 3. My feeling is they would make you ear more of the recording ( sonic nuances, resolution). |
Choice of cables fine tune’s your amp a degree further. It can remove or accentuate harshness .. another variable in this hobby. Luck of the draw when comparing amps and using same cables. Changing speakers is like back to square one. |
Hello WCSS, when you had the Rowland m925 monos in the system, did you plug the monoblocks into a power conditioner, or each into a dedicated 20A AC line?
G.
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I plugged them into the wall. Never into any sort of power conditioner. |
With this kind of set up, room treatments are the best bang for the buck to improve the sound. |
Anybody see the latest Diablo 300 on Audiogon? Listed as MINT with a 11,500 asking price...2nd one in a row listed at that price. The dealer (Percotta in Connecticut) took 9K for it. Gryphon Audio Diablo 300 integrated amplifier Mint cust...$9,000.00 Listing Sold Don't get P.T.Barnum "suckered" into paying Full Retail unless you enjoy losing 5-7K in the blink of an eye.
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riaa - I did not see the listing. You state that it was initially listed for $11,500 but sold for $9k. How do you know that?
Even if that is the case, that equates to 56% of retail for used gear which is about the norm.
For what it's worth, it has been my experience that I have never paid retail for my gear - including Gryphon.
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If you WATCH the listing and it sells it tells you what price was accepted in your Q. This price then gets reflected into the Audiogon "Average sale price" although not sure how long that takes to happen. Dont know if its updated daily/monthly etc. It has been stated HERE on this thread (and elsewhere) not to expect any discounts when purchasing Gryphon gear. |
Riaa: yes dealers won’t discount it unless you’re a customer who’s spent massive dough with them. Nothing was said about the used market ever. Nobody can predict what it will do. If that was indeed a trade, that dealer paid probably little money for it. |
I never pay retail for anything ... Gryphon is no different.
To my surprise purchasing a car, salesman told me 90%+ buyers don't negotiate and pay sticker + whatever markup. Most just don't like or know how to negotiate.
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OP....Here is your quote from 5/19....Just sayin.
Dealers DO NOT Give discounts on new gryphon product so don't even try...I've tried and tried lol and you all know I TRY and I failed. If you want gryphon, prepare to pay FULL PRICE unless you buy from Europe. That is like the Louie Vuitton brand. When did you ever see any on sale in their store? Never...just doesn't happen
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whitecamaross, Thank you for all of your objectivity on this thread and sharing with everyone what you hear. This is one of the first threads I go to every day.
I have a Gryphon Diablo 300 connected to a Aurender N10/Chord Dave feeding a pair of Sopra 3s. For me it sounds great for the type of music I typically listen to. I've really enjoyed the combo.
I tend to watch a lot of movies and find that the Gryphon in HT Bypass tends to work very well with movies. Great dynamics and large soundstage. Just a comment for all of those looking for a good integrated to incorporate in to a home theater set up as well. |
Rshad: thanks for following my thread. Yes indeed the diablo is amazing in many different ways. Chord Dave sounds fantastic as well. For now I’m staying quiet in regards to my next step and I’m just enjoying the gryphon 300, luxman integrated and 900u Monos all at once. It’s great !!! |
Riaa there's been I think 2 Diablos listed in the last 6 months and they were both at about the same price. Thank you for the information. =) |
I can assure you I paid more for mine. But I’m happy to keep it as back up in the garage for now. Luxman is center stage for me right now. Gryphon has taken a backseat to the luxmans musicality for now. Maybe if I get other speakers I’ll want to use the gryphon. I have a pair of olympica 2s on their way to me and I will possibly go after the new focal scala evo speakers. I’m just trying to convince myself to get them rather than a used pair of maestros 3 instead. Not sure. Still a bit confused.
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Actually Chazzy there has been 2 sold in the past 2-3 weeks on Audiogon. Other one was sold by Speaker maker BACHE in New York. |
WC , if it were me I would not get the Scala Evos. The Sopras 3 have the same new Focal midrange and the same tweeter. I would save 20k. |
@riaa Ahhhh, I missed these last 2 then. Thank you. 👍
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Whitecamaross,
How would you compare the bel canto black to the new luxman 509-x?
Big price difference. I’m looking for an integrated that runs cool. |
Luxman 509x is THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK. It’s made me question why I own expensive separates. $9500 retail is robbery. Luxman should have charged 15k retail for this piece. It’s worth 15k all day long. However, maybe that’s why they are sold out for months. I got word that the price will increase soon. You know what they said, as demand increases, price will as well. Outstanding component for the money. Again, it should be 15k retail. |
Whitecamaross, last week I got the Luxman 509x and agree that its a great integrated, especially considering its price. What do you running it with: Esoteric k1 or Luxman d-08u?. Currently I am running it with luxman d-05u and feel that in order to fully shine 509x needs a better, more resolving/dynamic source. If possible can you describe what you hear different running 509x with esoteric frond end versus luxman cdp? Thanks!
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Esoteric k1 is special. The best source but also very expensive. I did not use the luxman since I have it sold. It’s just sitting on the shelf unplugged. I am using the esoteric k1 and it sounds incredible with the luxman. I also noticed that cabling will make a tremendous difference with these pieces.
Once I am ready to part ways with my 509x, I’ll list it. I’m just not there... |
Whitecamaross,
Thank you so much for this thread. It's given me some much to google and learn.
Please keep it up!
JD |
Ok guys. Looks like I may have the guts to move out of my Wilson audio Sasha 2 and move into the paradigm persona 7f.
I selected the persona based on the price point, passive design and I want to be able to hear that bass coming out of my amplifiers rather than having built in powered woofers like the 9h.
Anyone here ever made the switch ? |
It will be interesting to get your take on those speakers. Some folks have described the persona speakers to be on the bright side, which would not fair well with your desire to turn things up. Maybe the Luxman would sound great with them, since it’s on the smoother side of the spectrum.
Dave
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I cancelled the order. Something in me doesn’t let me make the move. The Sasha 2 has this thing about it that it makes me not want to move out of them.
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WCSS, Good move, I've only heard Personas at shows but I was not impressed. If you stay with Wilson look for Daryl designed models, Alexia II is a winner.
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Alexia 1 might be my next step. |
Alexia 1 is a good choice.
Legacy Aeris!?!? |
The used market is flooded with Alexia 1s, get a great deal. |
No good deals yet. Need to make calls to get one and hopefully they can give me good money for mine
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I heard the Personas in a proper room and I was not impressed. |
Pulled the trigger on the Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier, the amplifier ships Monday, bought new cable's, buying new digital, already have magico q3 speaker's, all new 2nd system, the cable's of course are the Tara Lab's muse 8ft speaker cable's and muse interconnect's thru out the system, complimented by the Tara Lab's cobalt power cord for the Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier, I will be doing a review on everything on the Tara Lab's thread, so stay tuned as I build the system, got to make decisions on what to get for digital, the flagship Luxman dac has high regard's , said to be better than this amplifier, cheers |
Audiolabyrinth did you compare the 509 to 590ax ii before you bought? If yes which one is more tube like? |
the 509x is superior to the 590... 590 sounds sluggish, not as punchy. The only thing it may have a slight edge on is the highs due to it being class a. That is where it ends in terms of comparison. The entire 509x is better and it can drive more difficult loads than the 590. With the 590 you are limited to certain speakers. Just my .02cts. |
Update: i just listened briefly to the 900u monos vs the 509x and the diablo 300.
At low volume i would give the edge to the 509x due to its crazy amount of detail. The gryphon is right behind it and the luxman 900u monos take last spot.
That said, once you begin to crank things up, this is what begins to take place:
1. Gryphon imposes its muscular bottom end. It is clear, great separation, but depending on the material it might once in a while scream at you. I also found that because of its massive muscular signature and "in your face" sound, it can lead to not so long listening sessions if you are blasting it.
2. Luxman 509u: it opens up and keeps you listening, but because it is already a tad more detailed than the 900u monos at low volume, that detail can transform into a slight brightness when cranked up. May be it needs more break in?
3. luxman 900u monos: As soon as you push them, the sound begins to crawl out of the speakers and pours left, right, top and bottom and it begins to create a bubble of sound that wraps behind your head. Very dynamic and extremely engaging. You can blast this to 100 decibels and you can literally sit there and not know it is playing that loud. Ever been in a car at 100mph and it does not feel like you are going that fast because it is so smooth and composed? That is what it feels like with the 900u in mono mode. Unlike both integrateds which begin to suffer when you really push them hard, that is not the case for the 900u monos.
Some of the gryphon owners might disagree with my statement above, but try blasting it and see how long you can handle the music it puts out at loud volumes?
Lastly, you can not just sit in front of a component for 3 minutes and already know it is better than the other. I can understand that "preliminary feeling" which has happened to me, but as you sit and listen and listen then figure out which one you end up listening to for longer periods of time? THAT would be the component that your ears like best. |
Not a single tube amp? What a pity. |
coltrane1215 posts06-22-2018 1:35pmNot a single tube amp? What a pity. Well since it's common knowledge that great SS blows away tubes there's no need... ;) |
speaking of SS... I FINALLY FINALLY bought the one amplifier i wanted to get for many years ... yes people, i am going to do a throwback and bring home the monster KRELL FPB 700CX. i am going to see if indeed this beast can hang with the luxmans, gryphon, etc. Ever wondered what an old school monster amp can do against the new generation of amplifiers but mated with a kick a$$ current preamp such as the luxman 900u??? Will the krell 700cx squash my amps in here ? stay tuned..
i bet some of you are now REALLY staying tuned to watch and see what happens. :) |
Can t wait to read about the Krell vs the new generations.
About the new Paradigm Persona speakers ( the passive ones) , I was curious and went to read about them a bit. Sure impressing is the technology used on the Beryllium midrange, did you see that double magnet !
I would like to try a pair on my system.
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Haha. I knew you all would love the idea of trying that King Kong of an amp against the new offerings. See the one thing that will be interesting is seeing if that old amp can sound better with today’s preamps. That will be the story I want to read. Let’s see what happens... Luxman 900u ? Another ref 10?? Maybe a matching krell preamp ? How will the amazing esoteric k1 help elevate that amps performance ?? |
@ whitecamaross, Seems we have alot in common, you see, I have the only modified krell 700cx done by krell, with Dan D Agostino telling me what to do by phone, yes I have him on speed dial, any way, to be clear here, you need a 10/3 10awg line run to a furutech NCF gtx-Rhodium duplex receptacle , do not plug nothing else to that receptacle but the Krell, now sit down, do not allow anyone tell you different than what I’m about to say, you know how so many people complain about the heat of these incredible amplifier’s?, are you aware the manual said to use a 20 amp single pole breaker?, it says that, however, that’s a mistake!, Krell and Dan told me to do this, I run a single pole 30 amp breaker, guess what, after 4 or 5 hours of play, here’s what you get, the 700cx barley gets warm kicking loudly for hour’s, the sound stage is noticeably bigger, more refined and dimensional, more detail with finess and no grain, also wanted to mention that my amplifier took 600 hrs to break in, so if nothing is new you are still looking at half that time of burn in and resettlement to your system, my krell is on my main system, the over priced magico q3 speaker’s that I don’t hate enough to sale is on the second system I am currently rebuilding, I have just moved my Tara Lab’s cobalt to the second system because I am waiting delivery next week of the Tara Lab’s cobalt reference power cord that is a step up in the cable food chain, this will go on my digital running direct to the Krell 700cx as always, the Krell is running the Tara Lab’s balanced zero gold interconnect’s, omega jumpers running on the bi-amp jbl L-7 modified circa 1992 speaker’s, the amplifier runs the Tara Lab’s omega gold speaker cable’s to the speaker’s, let’s just say it’s very difficult to find speaker’s that can play Celtic music, classical music, jazz, hard rock, heavy metal, dance music like Michael Jackson, the magico cannot do this, it falls on it’s face!, so hence the smooth sound of the Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier will help the magico on the second system along with my building that system is the new Tara Lab’s muse speaker cable’s and interconnect’s mated to the Tara Lab’s cobalt power cord, these cable’s will provide musicality, organic sound, without losing resolution that the magico needs, I’m thinking ps audio, audio research, Luxman, esoteric audio, on the digital, maybe the community can chime in on this digital, I’m only going to pick from these unit’s though, these are on the table for offer to me for deal, cheers |
Kw6, no I did not compare the two Luxman integrated amplifier's, my source other than whitecamaross told me by phone exactly what whitecamaross reviewed here before whitecamaross even posted his review of the Luxman L-509X, so whitecamaross is spot on with his review which I applaud, cheers 🍸🍹 |
Whitecamaross, you know the 700cx is a ghost sought out amplifier, counting your's, I've seen 7 since 2012!, I'm looking continuously to find them, also, one of these amplifier's these day's made new in my opinion would be north of $50,000.00 based on the power and performance you get, I mean go ahead and check it out, the amplifier's today are uber expensive doing what this krell does. |
Audiolabyrinth: I suspect we will be talking once I get that amp here. I am now thinking of doing the ref10/krell 700 and the massive Neoliths. That should be one scary set up.
alexias are still on my list. I got a great deal on a pair of Neoliths but I don’t know if my room can accommodate them. I mean they do fit for sure but I don’t know how big be room needs to be. I don’t want to spend that kind of money and be dissatisfied. Granted, the neoliths have always blown me away but I’d hate to bring them here and choke them. Anyone here tried Neoliths in a room of about 15x20? Speaker would be on the short wall.
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Lol!, whitecamaross you have my attention!, that would be a scary system, Currious, what cable's would you be using?, this amplifier loves state of the art cable's such that I have. |
Ok thanks Whitecamaross & audiolabyrinth! I love Krell too! And Threshold T 200 with stats. |
