Revisit the bel canto 600m
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Rowland 925s: a bubble of sound that wraps behind your head and listening chair. The closest sound I’ve heard was the luxman 900u. Very similar but Rowland is a luxman 900u combo on steroids. That said, maybe what I’m hearing is the luxman 900u preamp through my 925s so maybe that is why I find it similar. Maybe once I get the Rowland preamp I’ll be able to differentiate better. I have zero desire to hear anything else. All My amps are dead weight at this point. |
Pokey77, Thank you for your kind comments. I enjoy reading this thread because it is purely about listening which as you note is the most important aspect in evaluating audio (by far) . The OP places a component into his home system and simply listens and reports what he hears, I like this. Subjectivity is the rule when it comes to listening to music and evaluating audio equipment. The OP is finding the Rowland 925 is producing sublime sound quality,yet according to guidocorona he hasn’t even scratch the surface of these amplifiers yet. Charles |
The 925s are indeed marvelous. They have been playing music since last Friday and they will keep going until the end of the month. I don’t plan on turning them off. I plan on giving the cardas cables about 100 hours to settle since they are demos. I will then switch them out for the wireworld silver 7 and see what happens to the sound. I suspect I will prefer the silver 7s... just a gut feeling. |
The potential issue with these cable changes at this juncture is that as guidocorona has pointed out is the Rowand is continuing burning-in and changing its sonic character. Sorting this factor from what the cables are contributing sonically can be confusing and imprecise. I believe that is a valid concern. It isn’t a concern if you don’t accept the "many" hours (800 To 1000) for burn-in concept. So obviously a matter of perspective. Not everyone believes in the ultra long hours of burn-in idea. Charles |
@whitecamaross "All My amps are dead weight at this point." Then " Looking into a great opportunity for another set of speakers that came to me just now... stay tuned :)". Wow, this thread just moves right along. Can't say it is boring around here! @charles1dad I do find it interesting that Guido says these amps have a long way to go, even now. I've read before he said they need a thousand hours to fully blossom. I do hope WC does give them a long time to speak their best. I wish I could be there to hear the sound, it must be simply sublime. -I have heard the Luxman 900 amp/pre amp combo a few times and just most recently on the full-sized Blades. Very smooth. |
Just got done talking to whitecamaross. incredible how much he knows about amplifiers. It makes you feel as if you are a first grader in regards to amplifier knowledge. I’ve bought 2 amps from him and both amps did EXACTLY what he said they would to the sound in my system. I was the audiophile that was tired of spending hard earned money only to bring a component home and realize it is not for me and then having to lose money trying to sell it. Now when I have a need to change the flavor of my system, I just do business with him and it’s done. Lastly, your feedback on audiogon doesn’t do justice. I’ve paid him large amounts with checks and wires not ever knowing him in person and not once have I had to worry if I was going to receive the product. Audiogon should make this thread a sticky or a permanent thread because the value this thread adds is just mind blowing. Far exceeding others. Thanks again whitecamaross! |
Hello Pokey, my estimation of M925 breake-in of 1K to 1.5K hours was predicated on the units being new. It appears that Whitecamaross’s M925 are previously owned/used units. They seem to have been offlilne for a while before WCSS picked received them. Re-breakin will probably take much less than 1K hours. Probably a few weeks of grinding signals will do the trick. Saluti, G. |
Looking into a great opportunity for another set of speakers that came to me just now... stay tuned :)@whitecamaross , FWIW, all amplifiers, tube, solid state or class D have lower distortion when driving higher impedances, such as 8 ohms as opposed to 4. This allows them to sound smoother and more detailed. Speaker cables are less critical too. Something to think about... |
“Just plugged in the the simaudio amp since it’s been on for about 3 weeks and wow... you don’t realize how good something is unless you have something to compare it to. The Rowland just demolishes it in finesse, detail, smoothness, clarity, bass, articulation and any other category you can think of. The difference is obvious. It’s not one of those “it’s too tough to choose a winner” type of deals. It’s just CLEAR which one is better.” @ whitecamaross: don’t say I didn’t tell you I’d post everything you text me lol youre killing me hahah |
avcr79 7 posts 05-09-2018 9:14pm Just plugged in the the simaudio amp since it’s been on for about 3 weeks and wow... you don’t realize how good something is unless you have something to compare it to. The Rowland just demolishes it in finesse, detail, smoothness, clarity, bass, articulation and any other category you can think of. The difference is obvious. It’s not one of those “it’s too tough to choose a winner” type of deals. It’s just CLEAR which one is better. Huh? Did you buy @whitecamaross Simaudio or Rowland? |
@avcr79 : hahah man you’re not supposed to paste things. I’m wanting to keep this thread more objective and less cluttered from how I first was doing things. So yes, the Rowland is just incredible. I actually want to listen to everything and anything through them. I also found out that the 925s May have only about 100 hours of total use from the previous owner ? This would mean they are still breaking in... |
Hello Pokey, if the M925 had about 100 hours when WC received them, he probably has some 300 hours of major evolution in front of him....During this time he might experience some performance cycling gradually tapering off.... After that, some 400 hours of further slow opening up..... Once he approaches the 1K hours total, he will start experiencing progressively smaller refinement for another few weeks. It is worth bearing in mind that what he has heard from his dealer might be an underestimation of total hours on the devices... So, his M925s might have been further along than 100 hours. G. |
the plethora of 4 ohm speakers in the marketplace suggest many don't believe or this accept this viewpoint. .That's sort of true- what is really happening is most people don't think about it, including designers. But if you want to bridge that gap between what sounds like a nice stereo as opposed to what sounds like real music, this has to be dealt with. You can see it in the specs of any amplifier. What is misunderstood is that the slight difference is actually audible, because its almost entirely higher ordered harmonics and IMD. |
Quick update: jeff Rowland Capri s2 just got connected and has been playing for about 20 min. Great synergy with the 925s but the luxman 900u preamp has it beat. Far more detail with the luxman 900u preamp. More things seem to show up in the music when uSing luxman 900u preamp. Will continue to listen. |
eHello WhiteCamaross, like with any device, Capri S2 (hope you got S2 and not the original version), needs to be broken in, or settle down, depending on how many hours it has on it. Keep in mind that Capri S2 at $4K retail, is not the Rowland reference product, but an excellent entry level pre. Of courseI have no idea which pre you will prefer , once Capri S2 has stabilized. But remember... Be patient. Saluti, G. |
Sounds good. Right now the preamp added the “digital” flavor to things while the luxman kept the system sounding like tubes. Very smooth and detailed. It may have been that I was listening to my luxman preamp through the Rowland’s this entire time. I don’t dare to plug in my ref10 because I suspect it will make my jaw drop and I don’t want to keep both me 925s and the ref10. |
Found out the Capri s2 is new. Never used. So far like I said, the luxman 900u sounds INSANE with the 925s. You’d swear it’s tubes. The Capri will have to massively change its tone and soundstage, Smothness etc in order to close the gap. That is a tall task to accomplish by any preamp. I just don’t see it happening but maybe the direction in which it shifts its tonality is better ? Not sure but I can say the luxman just oh man... it is just crazy amazing with the 925s. as far as the wireworld platinum usb cable, it did NOTHING in my system. I could have bought a cable from radio shack for 99 cents and it would have sounded the same. the only way I can justify this cable expense is because I’m getting the luxman d08u sacd/dac on Saturday and it will hopefully do a better job there. If it doesn’t then I’ll just close my eyes and think that I bought because I needed an expensive cable just because the rest of my system isn’t cheap but it won’t be because it does anything with my set up. |
Ok so I just plugged in the Ref10 and turned it on after not using it for about 2 weeks. I find the luxman pre STILL winning this race.... hmmmm. Is that shocking to anyone ? Granted, the Ref10 is still cold but i don’t find it better. The soundstage is bigger but it doesn’t have the midrange of the luxman preamp. I’m liking that these Rowland amps make it so easy for me to tell the difference as I change out components. The Ref10 sounds more far back and the Luxman more closer to you. |
Of course Charles. I agree. But let’s be honest about something, how many of you go into a store and have patience to listen to a set up for weeks ? Most people walk in, listen for 15-20 min max and then go to another room and do the same and then You supposedly know what sounds best? How is what I do any different? See the thing is most of us go to a store to listen to a speaker and come away with an opinion as to how it sounds but did you stop to think if the components were broken in ? Fully warmed up? Is there synergy with What you are hearing? Did they use the right cables? Too many variables as well to come home and know what sounds best. Do you know how many times I’ve listened to a speaker for 10 minutes and I felt that it was no good but then as I sat down and listened longer I realized it’s actually amazing? |
Hi whitecamaross, You point regarding brief listening sessions and subsequent impressions is true. This is why I mentioned the need for patience. In your situation you have the ability to exercise this option. I do certainly appreciate initial and progressive listening impressions. You have two excellent preamplifiers paired with an excellent power amplifier. There’s no doubt that each of the preamplifiers have distinctive strengths and sonic characteristics and that if and when possible should have adequate time to be thoroughly sorted out. You are in the ideal situation to carry this out. A cold REF 10 (sitting idle for 2 weeks) versus a fully swarmed up Luxman isn’t equal footing if a true direct comparison is the objective. This is my only point. As I’ve written before, I appreciate your efforts and commitment in providing this thread. I believe that there are many who read and enjoy your commentary. With preamplifiers of this very high caliber the choice will depend on the particular audio system in use and of course the taste/preferences of the specific listener. Charles |
Listening to the ref10 Again just now and yes the soundstage is bigger than the luxman or Capri s2. The luxman is narrower but it’s sweeter. At this level nothing is bad to be honest. It’s a matter of preference and flavor. Right now I feel like the luxman preamp is just better a better more engaging piece. The Capri is good but sounds a bit “muffled” or with a curtain in front of it. That said, I wouldn’t know this if I didn’t have the luxman or the ref10 right here. It’s an amazing preamp when you consider its price point. The luxman is just incredible. Yea I wish it did have the soundstage of the ref10 but the amazing sweetness and smoothness just makes me not even care. |
update: i tried all 3 preamps with the Rowland’s and chord Dave and here is what my results are in terms of the best preamp with my jeff rowland amps: 1. Luxman 900u: amazing synergy. Incredible smoothness, liquidity, detail, outrageous mids. 2. Ref 10: huge wall to wall soundstage. Good detail, good mids, but gets a bit bright sounding if cranked up too hard. The best overall soundstage but loses to the luxman in terms of sweetness. 3. Rowland Capri s2: good synergy, detail, bass is awesome, amazing volume response. It gives you a good idea of the potential of the 925s but fails to fully deliver it. It also sounds as if there’s a curtain in front of music at times. For the money, this is one hell of a preamp. Overall, you can see that the luxman steals this show. Why ? Well it’s got much more synergy with my speakers and amps. If I still had my salon 2s, I wouldn’t be shocked if I’d still choose the ref10 but it’s a matter of system synergy. If I go back to Martin Logan Renaissance then maybe the ref10 goes up to the top. Who knows. As far as sources, the luxman d08u is just as detailed, clear and amazing sounding as the chord Dave plus it adds a world class sacd player. Its sound quality is more analog which adds warmth to the music that sometimes is needed. If you want a clear, analog like source with a reference sacd player then the luxman d08u is it. I select the chord Dave for me for 2 reasons: 1. It can be used as a preamp in I ever wanted to use it. 2. Because it can be used as a preamp, it has far more volume than any other source I’ve owned. 3. My Wilson speakers are a tad warm sounding so the added “brightness” the chord Dave has actually works for me. That said, if I had forward sounding speakers like focals, paradigm personas, klipsch horns etc then the luxman is what you need. |
