2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
20,890 responses 
ricred1
2,000 posts
 
Riaa,

Instead of going back and forth in WC thread I sent you a PM.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
WC,
Please, before you let go of the Neo, put the lighter amps and preamps into your living room where the Neo is, and do the listening.  You know the reference sound in that room better than the new room, and the Neo has the wonderful stat midrange which will be near impossible to duplicate with a nonstat dynamic speaker.  The parttimeaudiophile review of the 118/Christine makes a few interesting observations on the tone quality of the Merrills, but the second guy makes a big mistake by fully boosting the treble of his speaker.  In itself, that is OK, because I do the same with my EQ, but he doesn't tell us how his other preamp/amp compares with the Merrills with that same tweeter boost.  Why did he need to boost the tweeter when he didn't boost it with his reference stuff?  Does that imply that the Merrills are rolled off in the highs?  The first guy said that the tone was a little warmer than neutral, heading in the direction of the big Macs.  I really want to get your final judgment on the combination of the Corus + 118, Christine +118, Corus + 925, Christine + 925.  This is best done with the pure midrange of the Neo.  People trust your ears more than the 4 ears of the reviewers, whose speakers have inferior midrange to your Neo.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
RIAA,
I know Dave from Audio Doctor in Jersey City.  He let me take lots of stuff, each for several days to a week.  He gave me the credit card slip back when I didn't buy, but I did buy a few things on that basis.  For the more expensive Mola Mola Kaluga, I gave Bill Parish of GTT Audio a check to hold, which he returned when I brought it back a week later.  A real gentleman.  There are other examples.  Pure retail without returns is dead.  Maybe such a store can sell to the novice, but they will not make a sale to the enlightened experienced customer with that attitude.
ricred1
2,000 posts
 
WC,
"I know ricred1 loves Rowland and he’s had Rowland for quite sometime and that’s awesome." I like my 625 S2 and Corus, but I know there are better amplifiers and preamps than what I have. Hey, I might prefer the Luxman combination over my current JR gear, but I'm not willing to continually try to find something 'better". I've played the game long enough and I honestly don't have the disposal income to keep buying/ selling. The truth is I've heard the JR 925 mono-amps several times and I don't like their sound. It isn't about Rowland to me. I actually love Gryphon and Constellation amplifiers.

mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
Jeff Rowland, since his beginnings, has always designed equipment, to be warm and smooth, which has been a trademark of his. In my earlier days, I remember he wanted to create amps and pre amps with " tube like " qualities, without the drawbacks of tubes ( he is not the only ss designer who does, and this in itself can be another thread, but not here ). All of these brands typically have a house sound. The way " I " see it ( hear it ), I buy equipment, based on the music I enjoy listening too. Much of my music has become digitized, and the newer music, no question about it, is digitized. I wish every recording I owned, sounded as realistic, and smooth, as the three recordings by Tony Minasian ( the man behind Tonian Labs ), or by Chesky, Reference Recordings, Sheffield Labs, Blue Note, ECM, and Verve, just to name a few. With every piece of gear we purchase, it should be understood that we are all at the mercy of the recording companies, who’s recordings we purchase, download, or stream. I remember a discussion I had with viber 6 ( I believe this was through a private email exchange we shared, which he is, of course, free to comment on, if he reads this post of mine). Or maybe, it was here on this thread, as I really do not remember. I suppose I am one of those " old people " WC just referred to. If I remember correctly, viber stated that, only a handful of recordings he owned, accurately portrayed the " sound " of the violin. If this was because of poor miking, equalization, compression ( or whatever ), the fact is, we are all at the hands of the record companies, and labels. So, what to do. What I do is, I listen for the " musicianship ", the " playing ", and the " artistry ", of the musicians and performers. Example...I would rather hear an excellent, live, " tight, on the money " performance, of a group, band, or orchestra, in an environment, where the acoustics were just so so, as opposed to these same musicians, where, much more practice was needed, or the performers stayed out all night drinking and doing other things, as it showed, in the performance, but the acoustical space, was wonderful. I come from two backgrounds, which are being an audiophile, and a performer. It IS the music that matters. I know so many people, in and out of the audio industry, that only play / listen to " state of the art recordings " ( we all own some, as I mentioned above ), but, I want to listen to all of my recordings. In other words, recordings that are so so, to good, to very good, and of course, excellent, but where the performances are top notch ( many are studio albums, with over dubs ). Labels such as Columbia, MCA, Warner Bros., A &M, CBS, Sony, RCA Victor, Atlantic, EMI, Epic, and, so many more. I would not expect many of these recordings on these labels, to be played, today, at shows, as any of us who have been to / involved in shows, can attest to ( of course, back in the day, songs such as " Money for Nothing ", or " In the Air Tonight ", have been. In fact, I used a track from a Roger Waters cd, when I was doing the demos for Jadis, at the "96 N.Y. Waldorf Stereophile show ( the Eurythmie designer wanted me to play it many more times than I had anticipated over the 3 days, and, at levels, that I even thought was a bit too much, as we were getting complaints from other exhibitors ). I should not have played it for him during Thursday’s set up. But, I digress. Pretty much every recording I listen to, allows me to " get into it ", stay involved, and invites me to continue listening, instead of me thinking, what can I do, or get, that can make all of this better. Being around the block several times, I know there is better. Always will be. It is my opinion, that many folks, are chasing the horses tale, and will continue to do so. I see it as unfortunate, but for some, such as WC, and some others I read here, it is a blessing, as he ( they ) are having fun, and the journey of equipment " differences ", seem to be as much fun, as the music, itself. Of course, we lower income, older folks, get to read all about it. Sorry this was very long......Did I just read that the Neoliths are leaving ? On one hand, I am very surprised, and on the other, I am thinking, what took so long.... WC, still, a great thread, and much comradery ( unless people might negatively respond the my post, so who knows ? )... Enjoy ! MrD.
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
@whitecamaross
Don’t you also feel that your reviews would somewhat have you fit into the magazine reviewers’ role ?
You can’t really afford to give the amp that you just bought (that happens to cost 5k more than the previous one you just sold ) a BAD review. Therefore, would you not also be somewhat complicit ....???? I am just sayin'   :)
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Greyhound,
I’ve been through a long journey. I’ve come a very long way so by now I am extremely careful with what I hand pick. I don’t pick out amps that give me a bad gut feeling. Noticed how my last few amps have been pretty much world class amps? I don’t do the blind fold experience without doing my own homework. Also, at the level where I’m playing there’s hardly any bad amps. They are just different and present things totally different. Im not going to buy amps that I don’t have a good feeling about and for the most part my instinct tends to be right. That said, this six sense comes from years of experience with amplifiers. It’s not something you develop by reading magazines. One word of advice to all
of you looking for your next amp: STOP JUDGING AN AMP WITHIN THE FIRST 5 MINUTES OF LISTENING. This is the best advice I can give you. Close your door, sit down and play song after song for hours at a time. 2-3 hours of playtime at a minimum and then switch to your other amp and your ears will immediately answer your questions. The ear, in my humble opinion has to “tune in or dial in” to the new sound and then it allows you to really hear what’s there or what’s missing. Remember my words that anything that sounds “omg amazing” might not be the same after hours of listening.
zprr
306 posts
 
happy to see this thread re energized again.  hey mr D i appreciate your insight over the last 2 years on this thread and particularly your perspective in your last post. thank you
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
WC, it is a " sixth "sense that you possess, just like the movie. At the beginning of your journey, I felt you did not give amplifiers enough time to settle, nor, did you use any after market power cords ( even some under $100 cords were beefier than the supplied, wimpy cords you were using ). I remember a Plinius amp you were listening to, and for your readers here, reviewing. I stated that, Plinius,  recommended a 20 amp circuit to supply that particular model with enough juice to run it properly. Your response to me was a bit arrogant, unfriendly, uninformed, and showed what little experience you had. You said something like, " no amplifier should be needing more watts than a standard outlet ", and " no way am I changing the electrical in my home, just for an amplifier ". I also commented, several times, that your listening room was too small, specifically during your ownership of the Neoliths. My point of all of this ? As someone with plenty of audio experiences, with recorded and live music ( beginning when I was 8 yrs old, in the early sixties ), my professional audio background, and, someone who also feels he possesses that sixth sense, which I developed, over many years, I want to say....YES, you have come a long way, and, in a big way. In such a short amount of time. But years ? How many years, actually, as it must seem like a lifetime. This post, WC, should be taken as a compliment, but I do feel, you have more to experience, and learn. This new, dedicated room, should give you most of the tools you will need, to begin your next chapter of your journey, as you know by my postings, that I feel, the room ( construction, size, acoustics, equipment / speaker set up, etc. ) is almost everything, when putting together any high end system, from moderate, to skies the limit, where you are at. I feel you should install the Neos in this new room, before they go, because, as I have said so many times, you have not heard them yet. Getting the room " out of the way ", is like taking a band aid off. I am so sorry, I do not know what has gotten into me, with so many ideas, and so much writing...Enjoy ! MrD. 
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
zprr... you are bringing tears to my eyes... really... thank you. With some hardships in my life ( as most of us experience some hardship ), I am feeling blessed, lately, as, I grew up with a loving dad, who loved listening to music; I worked in an industry, that was also my hobby, and completed, an every day pass time, to get in some music listening, even if it was a single album side. Someone said, " Music Soothes The Savage Beast ". It is actually a misquote, taken from an English poet, William Congreve, from the late 1600's, " music hath charms to soothe the savage breast ". I remember the first time I heard this ( the misquote ). It stuck, and I find it true. Again, TY zprr, Always, and Enjoy ! MrD.
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 

Thank you Mrdecibel, you and I seem very much on the same wavelength:


"What I do is, I listen for the " musicianship ", the " playing ", and the " artistry ", of the musicians and performers."


Yes, this is exactly what I do as well, and I seek brands and equipment which let me reach deeply into the heart of the music performance. Doubtless, there is a good amount of hyperreality in all music reproduction systems... But there is also a matter of congruence and incongruence, and one off that additive intermodulative distortion which can mask as phenomenal "speed" or "pace", or treble brilliance when it actually is intermodulation of transients and non-triadic treble, which in turn generate jarring enharmonics.


Such additive effects might be undeniably fun and exciting on inherently pre-processed music, where distortions are already deliberate/intentional part of the source material, but tend to cause musical reproduction to fall apart on more acoustic genres, where any harmonic complexity would be turned into harshness by equipment intermodulation, and most invariably, degrades the soul of the music and fogs the heart of the performer. .


Thus I am looking forward to eventually listening to a production level pair of Element 118 in my own system, and report on this great thread by @WhiteCamaross the degree of its applicability to my much beloved domain of "wierd" and "boring" music, and to my own tone concept.


 G.



jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Guido: you better be prepared... I know you love Rowland just like ricred does. Be ready to accept facts and lay them out :) 

mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
G. well said, as we discussed all of this in length on the phone. It is well known that characteristics in recordings, such as spatial positioning of the musicians, hall ambiance, holographic, and other " terms " created by the infamous Harry Pearson (and others ), are generally artificial ( particularly studio recorded ), and so many folks crave the enhancement of these characteristics, trying to make their systems disappear. My system can easily disappear. But, I need to be able to follow the tempo of a bass player, playing in sync, along with the other two or three musicians within a recording, or I easily lose interest, quickly. So many systems, with too much, or too little sub information ( bass ), or some systems using additional subs, can be so out of whack in this particular area, that I, again, lose interest. A prime reason " I " cannot use a tube amp ( so unfortunate, as I run Lasscalas ), because I am so critical of the damping characteristics ( what I consider woofer control ) between speakers and amp ( s ). I have a recording by Eddie Gomez, on the Denon Label, titled " Gomez " Eddie Gomez ( awesome music, extremely well produced, and a recording I use as a basis for system set up ), that truly portrays his playing of his stand up bass. Many so called excellent amplifiers, need to be " just right " in the control of his playing, and there are vast differences between many of them. Non are bad amplifiers. It is just that, an amp that works well with one speaker, can be, well, just not as good on another. This is all, part of system matching for me; not just tone, depth, height, etc. The uniformity of the musicianship, the playing, the tightness, the starting and stopping, of the pace, rhythm and tempo. Anyway, all of this is repetitive. G. Always great communicating with you, as I know wc has no problem, because it does center around his thread, which is no longer just an amp thread, but a " system matching " thread. I am so proud of wc, as I mentioned earlier. He has come so far, in, an amazingly, short amount of time. *** I wish Mr. Merrill would send me a 114 amplifier, to listen to, and evaluate. Are you reading this, Mr. Merrill ( I was a beta tester, for years, for many manufacturers ). I am ready ! ***   Enjoy ! MrD.
ricred1
2,000 posts
 
WC,

Please stop saying I love Rowland as if I don't prefer anything else. My favorite amplifiers are Absolare mono-amps, followed by Gryphon. If I hear something that I prefer over my Rowland 625 S2 in the same price category I would have no problem expressing it.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ricred1, I didn’t say anything out of the ordinary right ? You love Rowland and that’s fine. Guido does too!  I own Roland too and like a lot of what it does. Not sure why that’s a bad thing to say? 
I wish I could find that level of comfort that you’ve found with Rowland. 


ricred1
2,000 posts
 
WC,
I have talked to you several times on the phone and although we have never met I consider you my audiophile friend:). I'm a humble and very honest person. If I had the money to purchase any amplifier I wanted it wouldn't be the Jeff Rowland 925 mono-amps. My point is if I "loved Rowland" it seems that If I had the money I would purchase their current top of the line amplifier. The fact that I wouldn't should indicate that I don't love Rowland. To me, your implying that I recommend Rowland over everything and that couldn't be further from the truth. To my ears the JR 925 lacks detail across the board and has "fat" bass compared to some of the best amplifiers I've heard. So, it isn't that I think what you're saying is a bad thing. I just know it isn't true. 
viber6
2,444 posts
 
ricred1,
It seems that you want a little warmth but more detail with tighter bass than the JR 925 gives you.  If the recent parttimeaudiophile review is to be believed, plus the comments of WC and viber7 and several other reviews on the Merrill 118, then the Merrill 114 might be your ticket.  It is "reasonably" priced, still powerful, and very close to the performance of the 118, according to Merrill.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ricred, 
merrill audio might be your next venture :)
jafant's avatar
jafant
19,444 posts
 
2nd
Eddie Gomez Denon disc.  Happy Listening!
ricred1
2,000 posts
 
viber6,
I don't have the JR 925. I have the JR 625 S2 amplifier and I'm more than happy with it. I enjoy listening to different equipment as a means to educate myself on how different components sound, not because I want to purchase anything. I'm content with my system and besides changing a couple of my powercords, I'm done changing my core components(amp, preamp, DAC, and speakers).
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
As many of you know, I started this journey with multichannel amps because my initial passion was home theater. Anyhow, I just did a comparison of the marantz 8805 vs the McIntosh mx160. Yes, I was doing home theater tonight and I can’t deny what I hear. At over 3 times the price of the marantz 8805, the McIntosh mx160 just totally killed the marantz. I mean, the speakers behind my screen sound HUGE with the mx160, bigger soundstage and just far better separation. Even the imaging is on a whole different level. I was going crazy here trying to get my epson 6050 to look sharper and not “washed out”. I spent a lot of time trying to dial things and I couldn’t get things to look right. It was frustrating to say the least. Well, that’s all over once I connected the mx160.  The marantz doesn’t pass a pristine video signal.... anyhow, yes it sounds 3x times better than the 8805. What an awesome machine. As a matter of fact, I am sitting here at 138am watching YouTube videos and I can’t get off the recliner. This never happened with the 8805. Anyhow, that is just a short summary on 2 pieces that are for home theater but I know there are some of you who love home theater processors. 
roxy54's avatar
roxy54
7,942 posts
 
What do you know? Maybe McIntosh isn't so mid-fi after all!
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mayoradamwest
429 posts
 
WC I’m considering the M900u. Based on your experience, how much does it give up to the big guys you are using now? Was considering running it as stereo. Seems like a great deal getting a 15k amp that can match 30k amps.  Currently using a McIntosh MC452 fed by a ARC Ref 6. Thanks!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
900u is the best “high end “ affordable amp for the money. Far better than any McIntosh amp I’ve owned. It doesn’t Best the constellations centaur 2s ir block audios etc, but it doesn’t make you miss not having those amps either. 
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mayoradamwest
429 posts
 
Much appreciated! Love this thread and keep it going. I’m a fan of home theater as well and can’t wait to see how you marry the two. Using a Marantz 7703 processor now and your review of the Mcintosh gets me thinking ... :)
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 

Hello @WhiteCamaross, I am very much looking forward to discovering that the rather obvious shortcomings of the Merrill Element 118 prototype are no longer a factor in the production level device. It would be nice to discover that Rowland and Soulutions are not the only solid-state high end brands of amps that can serve my tone concept and the purely acoustic classical music that I love.


G.



  

guidocorona
4,298 posts
 

When I receive an eval pair of Element 118, I will power each amp ffrom its own dedicated 20A outlet with an Cardas Clear Beyond XL power cord.

I do not use a linestage: the amps will be fed a line level signal from the Rowland Aeris DAC via Cardas Clear Reflection, and in turn will feed my Vienna Die Muzik speakers via Clear Reflection speaker wires.


This is the identical connection environment that I use ffor the Rowland M925 monos.


Saluti, G.




   

grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
@whitecamaross
I am glad you gave the MX160 another chance . Have you ran the Roomperfect yet ?
Remember to measure way up high near the ceiling as well as way down low near the floor on several points . You want to mix things up on the mic placement. Roomperfect fixes the timing (phase) issues as well.
After all of the roomperfect setup is done , I always go back and adjust the levels of each speaker to match sitting in the sweet spot using an spl meter
it doesn’t always get the levels perfectly right due to the mixing of our mic positions.I think you will find that when setup right it will do pretty damn well on music.
Consider the Roku Ultra...especially for Pandora Premium through it.Awesome for a hundred bucks
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Guido:
careful with the cardas xl. I was warned it’s not a match for these amps but I will know more tomorrow since I am getting my cardas xl powercords tomorrow 
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
Backtracking to the Part Time Audiophile review of the 118s, mentioned by RIAA, I need to indicate a few things. The reviewer, Richard Mak, was also the reviewer of the Peak Consult Dragon Legends speakers, exclusively used during his Merrill review, for Mono Stereo, in early 2018, after living with these speakers, for 10 months, and ultimately buying. I really and truly, encourage everyone here, to read Mr. Mak’s speaker review ( a 10 - 15 minute read ). It is a fascinating, and very well written review. I read this speaker review when it became available, but after reading his review of the Merrill, I needed to go back and read the speaker review again. I would like to express my feelings of the Merrill review, and get other peoples opinion on the review, but only after the P.C.D L. speaker review is read. It is totally relevant to this thread, and the Merrill 118s. Thank you, and Enjoy ! MrD.
bigddesign3
237 posts
 
WCSS,
Sorry for the Marantz recommendation. Didn't know how much it would affect things. Nice to see that you got the projector working good now. There is a time for both (HT and 2 channel Stereo). Working out the kinks already for the HT. Nice.

Looking forward to you getting those Neoliths in the room.
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 

Hi WC, very interested in your upcoming observations on the Cardas XL PCs.


They seem to take a bitt over 300 hours to fully bloom.... In my system, XL cords are the most synergistic PCs I have experienced this far for my tone concept when I apply them to power the M925 amps and the Rowland Aeris+PSU combo. Conversely, XL seem not as applicable to the Esoteric X-01 CDp... For X-01, Cardas XL has a slightly dampening effect for very fine detail/microdynamics.... I much prefer the original Cardas Clear on the CDp.


From where/whom have you heard that XL may not be ideal for Element 118? And what undesirable symptoms might they be causing when used on the Merrils?


     Saluti, G.




thezaks
712 posts
 
WC -

Did your comparison of the 8805 vs MX160 include EQ (Aud. vs RP essentially)?   If it were me, I'd compare without EQ - at least the first round of listening. 

I had the Lyngdorf MP-50 for about 3 months - it was OK.  I definitely preferred the MX-151 that I had before it, so I can imagine that the MX160 is even better.
Dave
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Guido:
Cardas is known to be warmish and slow sounding. I was told using cardas could potentially slow down the speed these amps are known for. I am now going to hold off from buying cardas since i dont want to compromise one of the best attributes of this amp. Yes, the 118s are faster sounding than the 925s. No question about that. 
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 

Hi WC, from a historical point of view, you are correct. Older Cardas wires, such as the old Golden Reference series, could have been said to be somewhat romantic, or "slow".


Not so by any stretch of the imagination are Cardas Clear Beyond XL PCs. I would rather consider them to be at an ideal upper limit of response/speed realism... Perfect for  acoustic music, or at least perfect for my own tone concept. They definitely do not impart any transient/attack sluggishness to any instrument/voice that I have listened to, while delivering bass galore and reproducing the tembre, attacks, and decay of  instruments and voices with an almost magical sense of realism.


On the other hand, XL PCs do not add artificial transient sharpness to acoustic sources.


Admittedly, if over-the-top caffeinated zippiness is sought instead, some other brands of PCs might be preferable.


Question.... Have you WC cancelled your order for the XL PCs?


Saluti, Guido


 



        


tweak1
3,644 posts
 
WireWorld series 7 or 8 should do the trick
thezaks
712 posts
 
I agree with Guido on the Cardas.  I had the Beyond PC, and I didn't think it was slow at all.   I'm betting the Beyond XL is even better. 

Dave
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Update: just got Merrill speaker cables, xlr and one powercord for the dac. Cables aren’t not broken in so I need a few days to break them in. Nordost is right now taking a back seat. will play with the matching cabling for this amp and preamp over the next few days. 
thezaks
712 posts
 
I will be curious how you like the Merrill cabling.  It's had some decent reviews and it's a much lower price point than both the Nordost and the WW - could possibly be a great value.  Plus, there might be synergy with the Merrill components.
Dave
jafant's avatar
jafant
19,444 posts
 
whitecamaross

what peaked your interest in Merrill cabling?

Happy Listening!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Getting ready for a hurricane  guys.. I might not update this constantly. 
tomcy6's avatar
tomcy6
2,582 posts
 
Good luck, wcss!
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
@whitecamaross
Have you run Roomperfect ?
For some reason when we ask this question , it gets ignored .
I had ask about this before when you had the MX160. previously.
Without using RoomPerfect , you are missing out.
You may need very little room treatments with RoomPerfect setup and on.
Remember you did not believe in cables either.
Do you have the microphone and stand that came with the MX160 ?
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I’ve not done the calibration. All I did was plug and play. It sounds incredible to say the least. 
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
It will do even better with Roomperfect.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Today I get my stands and tomorrow
the room treatment. Yes I need to do room
treatment because I don’t want to use room correction for music. 
That said, who are the REW experts in here? I bought the mic and would like to see if anyone has used it before. 
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
@whitecamaross
Why do you not want to use Room correction for music ?
Don’t you think that you should at least try it before you decide against it.
At least 1/3 of the cost of the MX160 is RoomPerfect .
IT WORKS and IT IS THAT GOOD!!!
I am very disappointed on your decision, because it has NO Basis . You are showing a huge lack of intelligence if you do not at least try RoomPerfect !!!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I’m trying room perfect for my home theater. I’m not going to be using a processor for my 2 channel. Remember, my 2 channel is totally independent of the home theater. I’m not doing any sort of theater pass through, etc. My 2 channel is my 2 channel and doesn’t need to be turned on while I watch a movie or viceversa. That’s how I ended up building this. 
I also forgot to mention that I ended up buying 4 audioquest nrg 20a outlets which I haven’t Installed. 
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
Oh,...sorry!. That’s too bad that RoomPerfect will not do your 2 channel. It would do wonders for your 2 channel also
thyname's avatar
thyname
3,107 posts
 

Hi @whitecamaross 

Have you tried any T+A Elektroakustik? I have only heard the Integrated from their HV top of the line, and it’s fantastic!
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