@shkong78i bought of Joseph Audio Pulsars, which are a little more efficient and have a great midrange. I’m using class D Bel Canto Ref 600m monos for amplification and couldn’t be happier. Small, no heat, and they have power in low passages.
My first Tube Amplifier
I have a 40 years of audio history starting with Garrard Turntable, Fisher Intergrated(SS), ADS bookself speaker on 1978.
But I started using tube amplifier on 1999.
Since then I had been using only tube amplifier in my main system.
My last SS main amplifier was Krell KSA 150 to drive Apogee Duetta Signature speakers.
http://www.jadis-electronics.com/photos/ja500/45/3/ja500.jpg
My first tube amplifier was Jadis 500 which comprised of 4 pieces weighing 120 lb each.
B&W 801 driven by Jadis 500 gave most deep and powerful bass at my home.
But it generated too much heat so it was hard to use during summer.
It was memorable experience to use it for 4 years.
I may not go back to such monster tube amplifier again.
How about you?
What is your first tube amplifier?
I bet two cents on no one had used larger one as the first tube amplifier than mine.
But I started using tube amplifier on 1999.
Since then I had been using only tube amplifier in my main system.
My last SS main amplifier was Krell KSA 150 to drive Apogee Duetta Signature speakers.
http://www.jadis-electronics.com/photos/ja500/45/3/ja500.jpg
My first tube amplifier was Jadis 500 which comprised of 4 pieces weighing 120 lb each.
B&W 801 driven by Jadis 500 gave most deep and powerful bass at my home.
But it generated too much heat so it was hard to use during summer.
It was memorable experience to use it for 4 years.
I may not go back to such monster tube amplifier again.
How about you?
What is your first tube amplifier?
I bet two cents on no one had used larger one as the first tube amplifier than mine.
118 responses Add your response
I heard a Primaluna integrated at a local dealer matched up with some Klipsch La Scala speakers and fell in love with the tube sound. I wanted something a little less "syrupy" for lack of a better word and ended up with a second hand Audio Research VSI55 integrated which I enjoy every work day in my home office. After that I replaced the high powered class D amp in my main system with Rogue Audio M-180 monoblocks. I think those are staying for a while. |
My
first tube amps were a set of Dodd 120 monoblocks. I read a story in the Dallas Morning News about a local tube equipment
designer that just started his company named Dodd Audio. I contacted Gary and before I knew it, I was
listening to his new Dodd 120 monoblocks in his listening room at his house in
Garland, Texas. He was using his quad
6SN7 based reference preamp and a pair of GR Research line array speakers. The sound was very impressive top to
bottom. He sealed the deal when he
played track 6 from Roger Waters Amused to Death CD, which I had never heard
before. This is the famous water drop
track. I was sitting about nine feet
back from the speakers. I closed my eyes
to listen to the sound-stage and the most unbelievable thing happened. A water drop appeared in the soundscape…directly
to my left, next to the wall, about ear height.
Yes, audio fans, we are talking about a 180-degree sound-stage. I found out later that this CD was recorded
in Q surround sound. The things I liked
about Gary’s amps were that they had that organic tube magic but they were
quick, had a refined clean sound, and the sound had weight but was not syrupy. I wrote him a check on the spot. Later on, I bought his reference preamp and
then I bought his battery powered tube preamp.
I eventually sold the reference preamp but the monoblocks and battery
preamp are in my main system right now. I also have a pair of ASL DT200 hurricanes. I
have a small listening room now (16’ x 11’ x 10’) and my speakers are Kef
LS50s. The difference in refinement is
obvious between the Dodds and the Hurricanes.
However, the Hurricanes have added authority that makes them very special
in larger rooms but that’s another story.
|
Great thread, fun to read of others' journeys through tube gear. My first tube amp was a Harman Kardon Citation II, which got fully renovated. Then did the same for my HK C-V. They sounded wonderful, but I got tired of the heat they produced here in the desert and the hassle of biasing them so I sold them. The cost of replacing the power tubes was a hassle too. At the time, I felt the Modwright ss amp provided more resolution to the music I was playing through my monitor speakers. I also had a Fisher 400c which I got recapped and I tell ya, that receiver had the most amazing low end frequency response imaginable... it just had flat out balls on the LF. However, with its array of ~16 tubes, I was always taking it to the tube tech to detect and replace gassy tubes so I sold it. Wonderful amp with a warm midrange. I had a CJ M45a that melted down at soon as the new buyer got it home, luckily which was locally. Nothing special about that amp other than a very pleasant midrange. I got it fixed and sold it to a very happy buyer. I now have Spatial Audio M4 Triode Master speakers with a nominal impedance of 12 ohm and after hearing the speakers driven by Don Sach's KT88 amp, I am diving back into a tube amp! My Platinum upgraded McCormack DNA .05 sound plainly two-dimension compared to the glorious articulation, extension, air, and three-dimension sound heard with the tube amp. YMMV, depending on your speakers. I have for some time thought the magic combination in a system is a tube preamp and a ss amp. With the right speakers and properly powered tube amp, tube amps are still awesome and can do what few ss amps can do. I hasten to add that there are several manufacturers of new tubes that are sonically equal to or better than many NOS tubes, which are in dwindling supply and are plenty pricey. Shuguang, Psvane, and to a lesser extent, Genelex, make very good tubes that are reasonably priced and quite reliable. |
I have a pair of Primaluna mono blocks, and I could not be happier; https://www.primaluna-usa.com/prologue-premium-mono-power-amplifier/ I bought other tubes with the intention of improving them, and the last time I checked, I had the original tubes. |
@bdp24 : The inherent problem with Julius's circuit has been getting the two halves of the output stage to act in balance due to differing gain (one half acting as a cathode follower). And the circuit requires high feedback to have acceptable distortion (60db) - not a problem because of the low front-to-back propagation delay. |
@roberjerman, Music Reference's Roger Modjeski has thoroughly investigated the Futterman, and thinks highly of it. He has confirmed the amp's low output impedance, and other superior operating characteristics. The only negative I have heard about the design is in regard to reliability, due to what I don't know. Harvey Rosensberg (and his engineer George Kaye) made some changes to the amp when he started building them under his New York Audio Labs company name, having bought the rights to the design from Mr. Futterman shortly before the latter's passing. They too are known to be failure prone. Ralph Karsten's Atma-Sphere OTL's, on the other hand, are known to be very reliable, though they suffer from somewhat high output impedance (relative to the Futterman). @shkong78, yes, OTL's are known for their transparency, but many planar loudspeakers have a nominal impedance lower than OTL's like to see. Magneplanars, for instance, have an impedance of 4 ohms and lower, a tough load for an OTL. Atma-Sphere's Ralph Karsten recommends using an Anti-Cable Autoformer with his amps when partnered with low-impedance speakers such as Maggies. Most contemporary ESL's also are low-impedance designs, at least at certain frequencies. |
@unreceivedogma---OTL’s (primarily and most-famously the Futtermans) came to be considered a good choice for use with the original Quad, primarily because an OTL likes to operate into a high impedance load, and the Quad was/is nominally 16 ohms. The problem was, and remains, that most ESL’s have a wildly-varying impedance curve (the Quad from under a single ohm to maybe 50), and a curve like that creates large variations in loudspeaker frequency response unless the amp has a low output impedance. The Futterman was good in that regard; not all OTL’s are. |
The venerable 6L6 (late '30s) is an excellent output tube. Limited to about 20-25 watts for a PP pair. Its sound quality is limited to the make of the output transformer. Cheap ones, like in the Mesa Boogie, have problems with bass and high frequencies (hysterisis distortion caused by core saturion at low frequencies and capacitance/phase shift affecting highs). Excellent output transformers can cost a lot (hard to build). Tango (Japan) may be the best! I have seen the Mercury (US) transformers advertised. You might consider buying a pair and using them in your Mesa Boogie as an upgrade! |
A little bit to the side but on the topic of tube amps, especially seeing as a few musicians have brought up guitar amps....I usually have my Event Audio 20/20 speakers being run by my Class D Audio SDS 470-C power amp. Digital audio input via a MOTU 828X. I record and mix via this system as well as do my pleasure listening. Good enough for my ears battered by years of stage volume. The other day I realized that I had never tried playing recorded music through my Mesa Boogie 50/50 6L6 powered stereo power amp. Eventually found the cables I needed , hooked it up and as I had just been listening to "Up From The Skies" from "Axis Bold As Love" by Jimi Hendrix I hit play again and was immediately intrigued. I went back and forth between the 470-C and the 50/50 several times and it was undeniable. There was a clarity to the mid range with the 50/50 that was amazing! Noel Redding is playing a simple two note bass line mostly and I could hear so much more of the attack of each note. It sounded so much more like my bass player was sitting in the studio with his amp. There's a sound that fingers on bass strings make that's unmistakable. Never heard that on the 470-C. Really clear on the 50/50. Now the bass on the 50/50 was crap. No amount of tweakage between the preamp and the amp could keep it from distorting at good listening levels. But that mid range! Such clarity and depth. I'm not an audiophile but I do a lot of critical listening and I'm suddenly wondering what I've been missing without a good tube power amp to drive my monitors. There are a lot of times I'm struggling to hear some difference between components. Not this time. Even my tired old ears could not deny it. So I guess the moral of the story is I'm looking for a decent tube amp to power my monitors now. Are 6L6 tubes just not up to the task or is it just the amp design? |
Shkong78, The OTL3s are almost impossible to come by. I’d be surprised if there were 1,000 pair surviving, most in Japan most likely. I can ask Jon to keep an eye out for a pair, but short of having him build a new pair from scratch, you may be waiting a long while. I believe that Atma-Sphere makes a pair but I am not sure, and I think there is a company in Texas that introduced a model a few years back. I never heard either so I cannot vouch for them. I have heard a recording of Mikis Theodorakis’s “Canto General” that was recorded and mastered by Atma-Sphere: I found it to be a little disappointing from an engineering point of view, sadly so since artistically it competes well with the Farandouri performance. |
Like others here, I am of the generation where I thought all of us argued over whether Heathkit, Dynaco or McIntosh was the best. In 1968, when I was 14, I put my money from mowing neighbor’s lawns and shoveling their snow into a Dyna Stereo 70, still considered a classic that -especially with upgraded caps, etc - performs as well as many of today’s amps costing 10 times as much or more. In 1978, I graduated to a pair of Dyna MK III mono blocs. I still own these amps for back up or parties. In 1986, I moved on to a pair of The NY Audiolab version of the Julius Futterman output transformerless monoblocs, The OTL-3. Two years ago, I had Jon Specter, formerly of The NY Audiolabs, convert the OTL-3s from pentode to triode and upgrade all the caps to Jansen foil/oil audio caps. Jon’s cousin, btw, is Al Kooper. |
Don’t want to stray far from this topic but can I get opinions on the best power tubes people like and what is it about their sound quality that makes them sound good to you. I personally like EL34’s because of the way they present detail and resolution in a non aggressive way. My #1 tube is the 300b because it sounds more like music than any other power tube I’ve heard. What are your favorites? |
I started with a Jolida 502 Tube integrated. Now I have an ARC VS115, REF 5 preamp and a TAD-60 EL34 push pull amp. I've dabbled in Class D but find myself right back with tubes. Can't live without tubes in the chain somewhere. I've been a semi professional musician for over 20 years and tubes produce "music" to theses ears. Solid state leaves me cold and uncomfortable over the long haul. |
I neglected to mention.....Brooks’ tech Tom Carione was in the shop on Wednesdays and Saturdays (and remains so, the shop now run by Brooks’ widow Sheila), and Saturday was my regular visiting day. I can’t tell you how many times I would enter the shop and see Tom at his work bench, a Jadis amp sitting upside down on it, taken apart for repair. Not once did I see a Music Reference amp like that! I also never saw a MR amp on the used product shelves, but lots (and lots) of ARC’s. Tom showed me the scorches around the output tube sockets on the circuit board in all of them. Make of that what you will. |
| Post removed |
@ramtubes, Yep Roger, it was those expensive Jadis that my $20,000 price point was referring to. Brooks had them and the almost equally expensive VTL’s in his main room, driving (usually) Wilson speakers. The Jadis are beautiful to look at, have great fit & finish, and those massive transformers! But what is their price buying you, in terms of sound? Why is it a seriously flawed design (your example above) can find favor with some audiophiles? Are they listening with their eyes ;-) ? Or are such matters not what actually determines the sound (or lack thereof) of an amp? If an amp can have such an obvious shortcoming in it’s design, what does that say about the talent of it’s designer? And what other design flaws lie hidden within it’s beautiful exterior? John Atkinson’s reports often reveal them, but audiophiles don’t "believe" in bench test results, thanks to the writings of Harry Pearson and other purely-subjective reviewers. Harry also introduced the disgusting-to-me term of "High End" into perfectionist audio (J. Gordon Holt’s preferred term), leading to the belief that price equals performance. ’Taint necessarily so. |
Dynaco st-70. I thought I had a killer amp in my Adcom 555, back in the 90's. The Dynaco was bought just to see what the fuse was all about. I loved reading Stereophile mag. At the time. I was hooked. From there I went to Quicksilver, Audio Research ,Cary, Mesa Baron, SET 300B, 2A3, 45. 45 was the best. But I did not like having to use horns to get volume from it. I have settled on El-34 based tube amps of 40-60 watts/channel, in order to use more "conventional" types of speakers. I am back to Quicksilver Audio. They have a touch of SET magic, although they are push pull ultralinear. Mike Sanders is a genius. If I had to go solid state, I can live with Pass Labs amps. |
@bdp24 Thanks, it is true that the more expensive amplifiers were pushed harder. As Brooks once said to me. Why should I sell a $5000 amplifier when i can sell a $20,000 one. You only get to sell one! I never wanted to make expensive amplifiers, just fair priced, good sounding ones that don't break. We have 35 year old amps and preamps with original caps still sounding great. You dont need to recap our amps yet! You dont need fancy fuses that don't protect as I have written about the TuningFuses |
shkong: I went to a buddy who has the 40th anniversary Cary with 845 and was blown away by the midrange detail, very fluid with a wide open soundstage. I think I am going to try these out, but I worry about my speakers since they are 86 efficient and may need a little cow bell to get real low detail. |
@mountz You also had monster mono block tube amplifier with 12 tubes each. I had similar experience to your. It was hard to use it during summer time. After going through monster, you now lust for 845 tube. I also have Line Magnetic SET tube amp using 805 which sound wonderful. I heartily recommend you try SET amp which has a magical mid range. |
My first tube amp was the audio research vm-220 monos. With 12 tubes each, it started to get warm since I was pushing 40 tubes in my listening room during the California summers. To solve this, I’m reserving the AR vm-220s for the winter (thanksgiving to Easter). I got the aesthetix atlas stereo and was impressed by the lack of feedback and a SS front end, After two months I got the atlas monos that are signature versions to take advantage of superior parts selection. This combo mates with my Aesthetix Callisto pre in a unique way. I’m saving my pennies to get an aesthetix Io for phono for the analog side. I have to admit i’m Lusting after a pair of Cary 40th monos that take 845 tubes, wonderful warmth. |
My first tube amp was a VTL Stereo 50... great sounding amp but failed several times ... Fortunately that experience, most specifically VTL's horrible customer service, did not turn me off from tubes altogether. I've owned several great tube amps since, my current amps are Quicksilver Mid Monos and they are incredible amps for the money and Quicksilver support is top notch. |
My first Tube amp was The Fisher 101. Far from the rig that Shkong78 started with. Unfortunately I was
oblivious to tube amplification at that time and had little appreciation for it. My journey took me into solid state for a few years after that until I fell into a Conrad Johnson MV52 with EL34's. A few years later I added a second MV52 which I Bi amped into a pair of B&W P6's. I finally added the CJ Evolution 20 soon after. That was a Tight - sweet package. Tremendous Bass response. Great Resale Value. The sad thing is that I don't even remember what ever happened to The Fisher.... |