Brooks Berdan very much liked the Music Reference amps (and he was extremely hard to please), recommending and selling them to his customers. But some of his customers wanted to spend more money (bragging rights? bling?), and Brooks didn't mind taking his 40 points out of a $10,000-$20,000 sale instead of a $2,000-$4,000 one.
If more consumers carefully read John Atkinson's test bench reports they would have a much better idea what's going on under the hood of the amps that get reviewed. Amplifier sound quality is determined by many things, but just as a Pop song's ultimate quality is limited by it's chord structure and melody, an amp can not outperform the limitations imposed upon it by it's basic design. Changing the fuse in an amplifier, even if you perceive it to make a difference, is not going to improve the amp's linearity, increase it's power output, or decrease it's instability when driven into clipping. And spending more money on an amp does not necessarily buy one any of those. But you knew that ;-) .
Do folks know that this amplifier has a slew rate so low that it can only product a few watts above 10 Khz? The power drop off starts around a few Khz and just keeps falling.
Now what happens when you play trumpet music with lots of energy at 10Khz on an amp like this?
The transformers are excellent, the construction is excellent but for some reason they limit the drive to the bank of output tubes by using a 12AX7 running one mA or so.
My first tube amplifier was a hybrid: A New York Audio Labs Amp with a combination of tubes an mosfets. It was paired to a New York Audio labs minuet preamplifier. It sounded pretty sweet. It was, however a little noisy. I was powering bose 901’s with it at the time, using a Rega Planar 3 turntable (I forget what type of cartridge) and an NAS Cd player.
I did roll some Russian tubes into that setup, but is was so long ago that I don’t remember the details. I eventually replaced it with a (Carver) Sunrise Integrated. My current system is Magnepan 1.7i’s powered by a Aric Audio Transcend Tube preamp (awesome little hand made preamp) and an old Parasound HCA2200 amplifier (ss). I am enjoying this system, but am saving my nickels for a tube amplifier with enough oomph for the Magnepans.
I know this is heresy, but I have dispensed with motorized sources entirely and use a Cambridge CXN streamer primarily in conjunction with Tidal, but I sometimes listen to BBC 2.
if I recall, luxman 3045 monos or arc d79. had both about same time while in usaf Clark, Philippines, then after really having the bug, tube research labs gt 400s on sound lab a1s. crazy full circle back to McIntosh mc 240s, mz110z, full boat volti khorns. yes I have korners! it always sounds good to me. all had/ have their sweet spot.
My first tube amp was a Soundquest KT 88 integrated amp; it gave me an inexpensive way to get an initial listening experience with tubes and tube rolling. Currently have 3 tube integrated amps - Line Magnetic 518IA (845 tube based) ; Finale Audio 7189 (II) ( 7189/EL84M ) ; Ayon Spirit 2 (KT88); also have 2 tube pre amps - Modwright LS100; and a Herron Audio VTSP 1; and a tube based DAC - Modwright Elysee
Thank you for answering me. I must had precision, I have no tube amplifier , just tube pre-amp, and this is not an expensive product, this is FX audio build in China. So can you explain to me tube rolling ? I don't understand rolling ( I am French)
Hope you understand my english, I am French I have just buying a FX audio, and got it since one month after purchasing it on e-bay I connect it between my Audio research CD 5 and my audio research D 200, I listen most of my CD that I prefer and I think that it sound too thin and it is ideal for guitars tunes as low as possible, for metal (ex) but most of time , listening to jazz (Art Blackey) I though that it is too pitched for trumpets
My your TUBE is ceartinly larger than my Tube ! All ESL jokes aside , I started in 1973 with a Dynaco SCA-35 and a FM-3 tuner . I’ve never supersized my Stereo due to cost . So today in my Mid-Fi world and hot summers , I run a larger amp during the cooler part of the year . As far as all you “ String Pluckers “ go , thanks for adding your amps . There are two groups here , those that still have their old equipment and those that wish they did . Happy Listening , Mike B.
I used to help a guy bale hay on his farm. After we finished we’d have a drink and he would turn on some music. He had put together a Heathkit amp and matching tuner, which he played through homemade speakers — ElectroVoice coaxials in big cabinets. The only thing he didn’t build was the Elac Miracord TT. He either gave it to me after one summer or I paid him some nominal amount. It was really a pretty nice setup for a college kid, and loud enough to impress the guys in the frat house one semester. It also had a lot of hiss, which I was constantly trying to lessen by replacing tubes, having no idea which to try first and not realizing it was probably just part of the package. But in the early 70s even 7-Eleven had a tube tester and tubes for sale.
I gave it to my brother when I got a job and bought a proper system — Marantz, Advent, AR table. Only tubes since are in my Sphinx integrated amp. I recently was all set to build a small tube amp, but decided that with my limited soldering skills the power supply was more than I cared to risk. So I built a Pass amp camp amp instead. I love the sound of its MOSFETs, and ordered a second to run as mono blocks. People say they have a “tube” sound.
1st (and last) tube amp was the Music Reference RM-9. I had 2 of them. Had both modified by the mfr to be pentode/triode switchable (a switch mounted next to each of the 8 tube sockets). With EL34s or KT88s, triode was a taste of heaven IMO--at the cost of total output dropping from 100wpc to 50wpc (a price I was willing to pay). My plan was to strap each amp for mono, making each a 100wpc triode amp. That never happened, unfortunately.
I still have both amps and all tubes. They've been in storage since 1991.
My first tube amplifier was a *used* MC275. Today a classic. It was a trade in.. I used to sell audio and was also able to secure with a salesman's accommodation a new Luxman tube amp. Back then they were not well known. No one knew about burning in equipment back then, and the AC quality was raw. So, the Luxman was given a quick listen and sold, as the MC275 remained the head rooster. The MC275 was impressive with KEF 104ab's. Tube amps did not have good bass control. Their damping factor was weak,. It was years before I liked certain solid state. Yet,finally one Class D amp gave me a certain quality that reminded me of the MC275, but with superb bass control. Now, its a tube preamp, but Class D amp.
Just to mention, I own the Threshold SA/3, very nice amp, very pure and musical. Never had a Marantz tube amp but I own an original Marantz 7 and the phonostage is awesome. Use it in one of my setups and I have a K&K phonostage in my other system. I agree with someone’s post here about the 6550/KT88 tube, once your ears get accustom to EL34’s, 300b’s, and other great power tubes, can’t listen to 6550’s any longer.
My first tube amp was a Conrad Johnson MV55. It was a really nice sounding amp. Sold it and moved on to try a lot of different tube and Solid State +50-75 amps in the following 25yrs. My first SS amp was just before the MV55, it was a Forte Model 4a. Another nice sounding amp. Since, I’ve owed some really good amp throughout the years and my favorite tube has been the 300b. I still own 4 amps that use 300b power tubes. I’m presently using 3 amps now in my system that I am very happy with and will probably never remove them because they just sound so awesome and perfect. The Conrad Johnson Premier Four, MV55 and Forte Model 4a modified, upgraded by Jon Soderberg of vintage amps repair. Yes that’s right, I discovered that I should have kept the MV55 and Forte so after 25yrs I bought them again and they are fabulous.
Great to see the number of Dynaco initiates, perhaps not the original kit builders, but certainly among the best second generation advocates. I started with a kit-built Eico in the early 60's, then a Heathkit, then upgraded to Dyna, PAS-3x and ST-70, and still have two PAS-3x preamps with upgraded tubes, one factory built bought cheap. I lived in that Dyna world until building Welbourne Laurel Iix Ultimate 330B mono blocks which I still have, driven by a new AI Modulus 3B, recently received. Love the glow of the 300B tubes and have rolled a series, currently blue Sophia Classics. Will perhaps experiment with the planned newly built Western Electrics, but I'd like loads more input before dropping that many dimes.
My first stereo tube amp was a Dynaco ST 70 I bought in 1968 when it was almost new. I still have it. Has been lightly upgraded but retains its original charms. Sounded best with Spendor BC IIs that I regrettably sold. Keeping it alive with an FM3 and KLH 17s.
Currently listening to a C-J Premier 11A that I picked up earlier this year in my main system. Fantastic amp but the Dyna is heavenly.
What a great thread, thank you for the question! I am currently researching and shopping for my first hifi setup and I'm leaning towards tube amps over SS just based off of my research, so this has been a very helpful read through!
first was a hybrid integrated was a BAT tube pre of 6h30s, my first "real" quality amplifier. the problem was that I was driving Klipsch. The pair of Dali Helicons fixed that, and I could finally see what he BAT could really do.
I sold the BAT after making a pair of 40w push-pull Kt88 monoblocks with the local audio club. Quite good.
the last tube amp that I sold a few months back was a PrimaLuna HP Dialogue Premium. Great amps! but hot for me. Like the OP, they doubled as a large space heater in my CA weather with no AC, so had to let them go.... in favor of Class D for low heat/energy (energy bills are high in CA). the good thing is that the Class Ds i have were made by a company who mastered tube products beforehand, so their Class D amps are voiced toward tube sound.
HealthKit W5M which I built with my father in the late 1950’s. Haven’t used these in years, but I still have several of these units in my basement. After that Sherwood tube intergrated and then several different solid state units, mostly Heathkit and Carver. All still in the basement.
In the 1990’s I purchased my current Plinius 8150 which I moved to my mountain home when I purchased my Plinius 9200.
Absolutely no issues with either Plinius since purchase. Much warmer then all my previous Solid state amps. Very happy with both these rock solid integrated amps.
I do not miss my tube amps or replacing burned out tubes at all. Solid state technology has improved significantly since I built my first Heathkit transistor radio.
My first bit of tube gear was a AR SP10 that was gifted to me by one of my very kind and generous clients. I had no idea just how good it was, but when he offered it to me as "an old preamp that he had in his basement" I graciously accepted. It cam with lots of old tubes which were all "graded" on a hand written spread sheet no less. It sounded wonderful in my system and the phono section was amazing, albeit a little bit noisier than the SS unit that I was also using.
The other tubed amp that I have is a "refurbished" Fisher 100b that belonged to my late father. It was in the family for decades until it finally came back to me. I was a little skeptical about using it in my main system due to the relatively low output, but I decided to give it a try while I was between amps. The results were absolutely stunning to say the least. While not the last word in the area of bass and upper frequency extension, the music it made was just that, music. While I am not using it at the moment, it still sits atop my main rack as a reminder of dad's appreciation for music that I am blessed to have inherited.
I've always owned SS power trains. never did I even consider using glass power. never having heard speakers being driven by tubes probably fueled that notion immensely.
I got my introduction to what a fully tubed system could sound like at a local upscale audio dealership. what I heard in that room put jaw immediately on floor.
hearing how much the CDP, p[reamp, and mono blocks would cost me to take them home nearly stopped my heart! it was well over $20K! but that sound is what drove me to tubes to begin with. at least it planted the seed.
with that initial haunting dealership experience and knowing nothing of tubes but what was posted on these pages some decades back, my curiosity ushered me into the tube world slowly.
instead of opting for a fully tubed amp, I went with a tubed preamp first. mating that with a SS amp and things got way better way faster! that combo was all BAT. VK5 plus VK500 amp.
the BAT preamp was. informative, but expensive to roll tubes as it had 10 tubes total. it was truly an education.
I stepped up to a better preamp which, BTW had less tubes but better overall sonics, and a much higher price tag. still the BAT VK500 was the amp.
the next excursion was a mistake. I decided to upgrade both the main speakers and amp at just about the same time. poor choice IMHO. should have only done one or the other. likely just the speakers. live and learn.
I bought a BAT VK60 stereo tube amp. Apparently, I missed the lesson on amps which use a lot of tubes, but was quickly reeducated and this time about amps whose output tubes do not have suitable drop in replacements! the VK60 was OK, just not my cup of tea so off it went shortly thereafter.
while deciding on which tube amp )(s) I wanted, or could buy next, a pair of Dodd monos came up for sale. the Dodds were getting plenty of Forum press so I pulled the trigger and brought them in.
again, I'm apparently a slow learner as the cumulative tube compliment for both monos was now up to 14! lovely.
the new speakers were 93db not 87db as were the previous ones so the Dodds ran them just fine. in fact, being somewhat uneducated on IMP taps and tube amps I ran off the 4ohm taps for a while. sonic results were fat, rounded, and lush. eventually and again, from these pages, I switched to the 8ohm taps and the world took on a new sheen! that was the sweet spot for those speakers indeed with those amps.
since then life got complicated, but the desires and designs going now going forward for any outfit I generate will have tubes between the source and speakers. how many beyond the preamp will be the sticking point and decided by my preffs, and the speakers demands. hopefully, it will be another fully tubed powertrain.
My first was a yaqin (Chinese clone). The psvane tubes were garbage. They were almost immediately replaced with jjs and eventually some nos mullards.I absolutely love it now. I also scored 2 vintage amps 1 Fisher x100b and a Knight 724b. I'll probably never go back to solid state.
I never buy tube amp, but I have more 60 tube projects. First was SE EL84, next 6L6, 6S19P, 6S33S, 6P1P, 6AS7, 2A3 RCA, 300B JJ.....I had and PP, that is better only with it more power, but with sharp and metal sounding. IMO, SE is better with it warm sound, that I can listen continuosly every day /of cours output transformers have 10-20 times power for exelent and cool bass/. But I prefer smal SE EL11 Telefunken that is the top of the ice cream. I had and OTL projects 6AS7 RCA that is for a level higher all my SE and PP. Some days ago I fixed MaCintosh MC 240 - for me this is ordinary expencive and power amp, people pay onlly for brand .....My SE EL11 Telefunken and OTL are far better, IMO.
Audio Research Classic 60. Had just moved back to Chicago from L.A. (1991) and found it for sale in the Tribune for $1600. The Gentleman selling also had an SP-9 pre but, like a boob, I passed. Decided to use my Adcom GFP-565 pre instead. So, for $1600 I got a mint CL-60, 3 meter ARC Litz speaker wire and 1 meter and 2 meter ARC interconnects (RCA). Classic 60s sell today for about $1600.
Tube amp no.2 was a Heathkit AA100 bought from the original owner/builder (1963). I paid $25 in May 1993. Came with a still good quartet of 7591's and a GZ34 rectifier. Used it with my Quad 57's. Still have it!
September 1981: Bought a rare single-chassis dual-mono Futterman H3aa (#111AB) OTL amp from Bob Heenan at Q Audio, Cambridge MA. $750. Used it with a pair of Quad 57's (22585, 25391). Sold it July 1991 for $600. It needed new tubes and servicing. Should have kept it! Anybody out there know what happened to it?
A Mullard 10/10, which actually puts out 12 watts. Built in 1966 but never used and bought by me around 2000, still with the original Mullard valves. It has been recapped and the volume pot replaced and is still in occasional use. Looks like hell and sounds like heaven.
My first tube amp was an early McIntosh. When I had children I had to put it away because they would play with the tubes. Later sold it, regretted this. I’m now 66, retired. When I was 35 and my children were older, I purchase a used Harman Kardon Citation II and had it rebuilt by the Master Jim McShane. 10 years later I purchased a second identical unit which has also been completely rebuilt with the best Mundorf Supreme SGO capacitors throughout. I use them to bi-amp a pair of Meadowlark speakers which are phase and time coherent. The Meadowlarks love those tube amps. The amps are nearly as old as I am, vintage 1960, but to my ears present a wide an accurate soundstage, causing the speakers to disappear. I’ve tried SS several times, but like an acquired taste prefer the tubes. The preamp is also tube, a Dynaco PAS-4 (1995 Panor version not the original Dynaco’s). Also fully rebuilt. I’ve spent years finding the right tubes for this unit and determined it best likes the frame grid Tesla’s (E83cc and E88cc), which are replicas of the famous Telefunken 803S. Telefunken and Tesla are the only two companies that were able to make these tubes, the technology which has since been unreplicated. The frame grid wire is so thin it is nearly impossible to see with the human eye, which is why others have been unable to make this type of tube. It contributes to a so called holographic signature with lots of detail.
dynaco stereo 70. I was scrapping large high voltage lab power supplies at the time, I was getting them for free, as scrap, from the local university. I decided to modify the dynaco power supply. I had the b+ rail up to ~10,000uf of storage.
I built a Dynaco PAS 3 from a kit in 1965. Matched it with a Dynaco Stereo 35 amp. They drove Voice of the Theater speakers - large but slim cabinets for hanging on the wall - a la early Danish Modern. That’s when walls were made of plaster, not sheet rock.
Mine was a 1962 Dynaco St-70 that I built from the kit. I completely rebuilt it 3 years ago and it plays in my main system now. I have a HK Citation II that I believe is the best tube amp ever designed. I call it the beast that plays like Angels singing. I use it when playing Jazz and classical music
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
