My Experience With Tekton


I know this is a polarizing discussion point and was thus hesitant to share unless I could keep it objective, helpful, and concise

I have no intention to be inflammatory, sway anyone’s current opinion or beliefs

I merely want to share information in two specific areas, my results of product performance and my experience with the manufacturer

 

Background and reference point

I replaced a pair of Revel F36. The F36 is the upper end of Revel’s lowest tier floorstanding speakers and retails for $2,000 MSRP per pair

Took approx. 45 mins to unbox, level and connect

Like for like drop-in replacement, same location on the floor as the F36s, the listening position did not change, identical electronics and cables

We’ve all got our preferences, biases, different levels of experience, etc; but share the common limitation that we just don’t know what we don’t know

I’ve not heard a pair of 30K speakers but expect to someday and envy those that own them

In my VERY limited understanding, it’s near impossible to pinpoint how any specific system change will behave and perform across the board, contingent on the variances in electronics, set up and room. These three items alone (electronics, setup and room) make me think that while similar in nature, but at a critical listening level, each combination is unique and a different snowflake or fingerprint

 

Listening results

Product delivers as advertised

Meets or exceeds every performance expectation I had hoped for

After approx. 5 hours of listening over 3 days I tried to characterize the sound. The first thought was neutral, but that was understating what I was hearing. I eventually landed on natural or real. The voices and the instruments sound VERY real to me. This is as close as I have come with my electronics, setup and room to sensing that someone is singing to me or that someone or an entire band is playing for me

To date, each song that I’ve played, is the best version of that song that I have heard in a playback, and I’ve listened to all of them 100s and 100s of times

Some of the improvement was by a small margin, but most songs, 65% conservatively speaking, by a vast margin – night and day, game changing stuff

Chet Baker didn’t sound like a presentation from 1958, it sounded as fresh and real as a new recording with the benefits of 60 years of technology advancements. Exile on Main Street didn’t sound like a home recording from 1972 it sounded like 2022 with many layers of percussion, keyboards, horns and background vocals

Is the sound of this $5,000 pair of speakers comparable to the sound of a $30,000 pair of speakers? I don’t know, as mentioned I’ve not heard a pair of $30,000 speakers.

What I do know is the $5,000 pair of speakers, simply put is the best my system has sounded by a wide margin

Again in summary, it sounds real, like someone is singing to me

 

Experience with the manufacturer

I had hemmed and hawed for 2 or 3 months before placing my order. One day the website mentioned a future price increase but until mmdd you could still order at the current price

I called and spoke with Tammy and told her I wanted to lock in on the current price point but wasn’t sure what product or configuration I wanted

She built an open-ended order with current pricing and told me to contact her when I knew what I wanted

With work travel and other commitments it took me 4 months to finalize which speaker, Moab, which upgrades, beryllium tweeters and Cardas connectors, and what color, white

I was never pressured to make up my mind or that my window for the lower costs was going to expire

Since I was the one dragging my feet, I offered multiple times to pay for the product

Not once did they hint or take me up on my offer to pay in advance

They did not bill me until the product shipped

Once I had made all the config decisions, the build and delivery were again, as advertised

Tammy mentioned a 4–6-week supply chain delay with beryllium, that arrived within her estimated timeframe

Once the beryllium arrived, she said she was waiting on cabinets, eta 5-7 days, followed by build and paint, and shipping approx. 10 days after she received the cabinets

Within 2 weeks Tammy emailed my owner’s manual, unpacking instructions and told me to expect a call from the freight company within the next week

Freight company contacted me on that Fri and scheduled delivery for the very next Mon, Aug 30

The boxes arrived scuffed and with multiple impact points that dented the packing material

There are no blemishes or damage to either speaker cabinet, the packing and packaging worked as designed

Upon unpacking, I didn’t experience a heavy smell of paint or wood, if I put my nose to the cabinet, I could smell fresh paint

The cabinet finish or construction does not appear inferior to anything else in my inventory, KEF, Revel, Klipsch, Paradigm, Polk, and Elac – permission in advance to laugh

Enjoy the journey and happy listening

Respectfully


stevewharton
@ blk, Was nothing but tongue and cheek humor. Not even meant to be a serious analogy.
I will try and think of a better one that involves buying something I can not test nor return without a penalty. I’m smart enough not to say "a wife" . ;)

YOU ARE the weakness in the system if you still buy a flawed design.  YOU bought the Pinto.
I think I understand....If I am dense enough to buy Tekton, I am the weakness.   Got it. 
Hahaha still not getting it.  You can sell 3 million vehicles that people test drove and it’s still a terrible product. Somebody can test listen, test drive a product and still make a decision that’s bad. 
I’m going to buy a set of Double Impacts next week (used) just to see what this is all about. I still don’t understand why you all are so butt hurt about people liking their speakers!  And you don’t get that there are very few speakers you can listen to in person anymore in this day and age. I haven’t lost money buying and selling speakers in over 20 years. 
Couldn’t try Spatial Audio speakers anywhere, so was careful in buying a pair at a fair price and tried them out. Didn’t care for them so I sold them for more than I paid. Now I’m going to try a pair of Tekton DI’s and report back what I hear. 
I don’t keep bad speakers, even though all of you keep saying people stick with their bad decisions. None of it makes sense. Like your choice or not but don’t put down others for their choices. 
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Uhhhh I don’t think that analogy is working in the way you think it is………..

Good lord some of you are dense. 
You can still test drive (listen) to something and not realize YOU ARE the weakness in the system if you still buy a flawed design.  YOU bought the Pinto. 
Make sense? Probably not to you.
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Has anyone ever witnessed any brand or product where someone has to attempt a calculation of serial number progressions in order to defend what a great product it must be? The fact that someone feels this exercise is necessary to defend the product is not doing the brand any favors. Honestly, who would do this in any context other than out of sheer desperation?

Well Ford did sell over 3,000,000 Pintos, beating the Vega and the Gremlin.  However you were allowed to test drive & audition this wonderful chariot.
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Has anyone ever witnessed any brand or product where someone has to attempt a calculation of serial number progressions in order to defend what a great product it must be? The fact that someone feels this exercise is necessary to defend the product is not doing the brand any favors. Honestly, who would do this in any context other than out of sheer desperation?
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Ask companies like Vandersteen and Legacy, to find out if 600 pairs of a specific loudspeaker is a lot in one year.

You might be surprised MC.
You must have missed the post above. 600 pairs sold in the last year.  Try to find them used. And that is just for Moab. Not even their biggest seller. So you do the math on the risk. Unless you are frequently unsatisfied with really, really good stuff at a really, really good price I think your risk is somewhere between zero and none. 

They are selling so many they have been months behind for over a year now. They keep improving current production, and expanding production, and coming out with new models. Reviews and owner comments are off the charts glowing. Very limiting, indeed.

If you are serious about finding some to hear try the Tekton Owner's Group on FB. You can hear them at the factory but might find them closer on FB.
I emailed Tekton and asked if it was possible to have an audition in their Utah facility.  I live rural, so much so, that we don't even have a zip code. Deliveries can be very difficult.  Tekton does not offer in house audition.  Very limiting business model.
@three

The other thing that some folks obviously don’t understand is that using Watt’s law (sic), only at precisely 8 Ohms does 2.83V = 1W. At 4 Ohms 2.83V = 2W. Speakers are current driven, and amps are spec’d for the wattage they output, so quoting a spec normalized for a voltage makes no sense. Unless of course you want to make your speaker appear more sensitive than it actually is

Yeah, so let’s flip things and keep the Ohms constant using a real speaker and consider measuring in both watts and volts, a sneaky tactic using Monitor Audio New Gold 100 as a $2,600 example picked out of thin air.

1. Sensitivity (1W@1M): 86 dB
https://upscaleaudio.com/products/monitor-audio-new-gold-100-loudspeaker-pair

2. Sensitivity: 83.23dB (averaged 300Hz-3kHz on Listening Window, 2.83V/1m)

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2204:nrc-meas...

So.  Actually I think volts is some IEC standard, if someone has the resources to find it.  There must be some logical reason.
Yeah, they don't come up for sale at all, I'm looking!  Can't afford the new price, so it's a long shot.

Found a pair of DI's that I might pick up, will be my first Tektons if I got his route but I know I will just want to upgrade to the Moab if I like them...........
A guy on the Tekton Owner's Group just got his SECOND pair of Moabs today. Custom color. His are S/N 1394. Mine are 194. What that means, in one year, 1,200 Moabs. 600 pair. In one year. How many of those come up for sale used? Not many! Remarkably few given such massive sales. 


Glad you like your new speakers and the great sound they produce. I want to try a pair someday myself. I do not go by price but how the speaker will sound with the amp I am using at the time. If I ever get it right then it will most likely sound like your post. Am happy for you!
Let's not forget phase angle.  Which is why I started this thread a while ago.  https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/epdr-more-important-than-impedance-alone  EPDR seems like it could be a useful measurement.
''Focusing solely on the stated sensitivity of a speaker is an incomplete view/assessment. You have to also be aware of a speaker’s impedance measurements and impedance characteristics and behavior as a load. Amplifiers have to deal with this aspect of every speaker it is expected to drive. Particularly relevant for tube power amplifiers.
Charles''

Agreed!

@oldhvymec,
"The 4 ohm approach leaves a lot on the table from a distortion perspective. 8-16 ohms wiring for speakers always sounds better to me.
As far as power there aren't to many valve amps that increase as the ohms go down, but the distortion sure goes UP."

That has been the opinion and experience of most tube amplifier builders/designers. Higher speaker impedance load = less amplifier distortion.  No doubt that there are some specific exceptions (As always).

I tried "light loading ". I have 14 ohm speakers and my amplifier has 8 and 16 ohm taps. The sound quality was noticeably better with use of the 16 ohm taps. Very likely varies given the individual amp/speaker involved.  
Charles 



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but for a partial hint about RM and transformers consider that he designed and wound his own….. and eliminated them on his direct drive electrostatic…..


IF you don’t listen very loud and..light loading keeps amp in class A, at least that was RM’s partial explanation. That’s how i run my RM-9 w Vandersteen Treo CT in the condo. Eviction levels not needed.

Best to listen to each tap !

Also, variable negative feedback is IMO invaluable for honing listening….as a skill, 
The 4 ohm approach leaves a lot on the table from a distortion perspective. 8-16 ohms wiring for speakers always sounds better to me.
As far as power there aren't to many valve amps that increase as the ohms go down, but the distortion sure goes UP.

Macs, VTL, Carys all are close to their advertised wattage in spite of the load BUT run hotter than under paid floosy at 4 vs 8 or 16 ohm loads.

VTL valve amps use to have a fixed tap at 4.6-9 ohms. They always sounded better with 8 ohm speakers. ??

Just a tidbit.
@tomic601: Good point JIm. In one of his Burning Amp talks, Modjeski said EAR-Yoshino's Tim de Paravicini (as with Modjeski, recently departed) claimed he could tell how a tube amp sounds by looking at the transformer(s).

Let me point out that a 4 ohm load is WORSE for a tube amp than is an 8 or 16 ohm load, amps generally producing more distortion into low impedance loads (so sayeth Atma-Sphere's Ralph Karsten). Interestingly, Modjeski recommended "light loading" his amps: using an output tap lower than the speakers nominal impedance. Lower power output, but less produced distortion and therefore better sound. Also lower amplifier output (source) impedance, for less effect on the combined amplifier/loudspeaker frequency response.
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much of the impedence discussion should also focus on How that is achieved given motor assy are rarely proprietary….and that in most cases the tube amp will be transformer coupled, hence sounding a LOT like the design and execution of the output transformers. Ralph product excepted.


@tsushima1 I wasn’t just making that up. Tekton says in the video that 8 ohms is "an obsolete impedance" and that they will always steer you first to a 4 ohm design. Here’s the link: (1) 8 Ohms vs 4 Ohms: Which is Better for Audio? - YouTube
@dabel I need to become a better student also. My mentor has me building some variable distortion stuff this fall and Winter. Should be fun
*Sheer Genius* All other speaker designers over the last 80  years entirely didn’t know what they were doing...

” Tekton’s video taking the approach that 4 ohm speakers are simply better than 8 ohm designs because they produce a louder sound “
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@tvad I think reflecting on the approach that DeVore takes to speaker design is quite relevant in this thread because it’s really the opposite approach to Tekton’s approach - at least to a large extent.

On the one hand you have John’s design approach which states a preference towards maintaining an easier (higher and overall flatter) impedance load which tends to benefit tube amps the most by reducing stress. And on other the end of spectrum you have Tekton’s video taking the approach that 4 ohm speakers are simply better than 8 ohm designs because they produce a louder sound - provided that the amp is up to the task of handling the heavier load. I’m not suggesting one of these approaches to design is more correct than the other - but I do know which one I prefer for my listening.

The reality is that amps do not all respond to loads presented by speakers the same. Tube amps like an easier and more predictable load. The Tekton designs are probably a better fit in general for SS designs. This isn’t to say they can’t sound very good with tubes as well but you really need to listen for yourself to confirm.

If you’re interested in DeVore’s I really suggest listening at a dealer’s first to hear them paired with as many amps as possible. They can be disappointing with quite a few SS amps in particular.
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@dabel Yes a weekly visit for me in late Fall Winter, Not crazy how they store discs for sale apart from covers for theft prevention….
So in case folks weren't connecting the dots on my last post,  the takeaway is that using the "magic" of the voltage spec a 4 ohm speaker can claim to have a higher sensitivity than a 8 ohm speaker which is more accurately using the wattage spec.  Now think about the additive impact as you move up into 10+ ohm speakers.


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bespoke proprietary cones built on custom Scanspeak Pistonic drivers , time and phase correct filters, low diffraction baffle, textbook impulse response , lack of stored energy in the driver, patented aerodynamic basket for minimal backwave reflection, . Inert cabinet. Powered bass w 11 band eq below 120 hz for flat in room response,  easy load for the amp 6 ohms, no bizarre phase angles, pairs matched to better than .25 db. single ended cylotronic SS and hybrid tube SS amplifiers w analog controls / error protection, no emitter resistors, hanging truss HRS suspension, Amplifiers designed exactly for the load…water cooling for rock solid bias…no matter what, list goes on.

Since 1977, no flash in the pan….




@phcollie Good points. 

The other thing that some folks obviously don't understand is that using Watt's law, only at precisely 8 Ohms does 2.83V = 1W. At 4 Ohms 2.83V = 2W. Speakers are current driven, and amps are spec'd for the wattage they output, so quoting a spec normalized for a voltage makes no sense. Unless of course you want to make your speaker appear more sensitive than it actually is because a 2 Ohm speaker will receive EIGHT TIMES more power than a 16 Ohm speaker in the test.
@charles1dad   

+1 

Ralph (@atmasphere) has q cogently made this observation numerous times on this forum. Focusing solely on the stated sensitivity of a speaker is an incomplete view/assessment. You have to also be aware of a speaker’s impedance measurements and impedance characteristics and behavior as a load. Amplifiers have to deal with this aspect of every speaker it is expected to drive. Particularly relevant for tube power amplifiers.

Ralph has explained this numerous times so eloquently yet there remains so much resistance to this reality.  

@three_easy_payments,

"It really is amazing hearing how good his speakers sound by keeping the impedance high and smooth - nominal 10 ohms and never dipping below 8 ohms in my O/96’s. It’s most striking in my tubes amps with SET and push-pull triode designs. The synergy is just remarkable and the sonics that develop by keeping stress off the amps is glorious. This certainly is in stark contrast to other 90+dB speakers that have a 4 ohm impedance. Just pushing more out of an amp by presenting a lower impedance may gain you volume but it may be comparatively challenged to deliver lucid beauty"
Agree!

John Devore is correct and Ralph (@atmasphere) has q cogently made this observation numerous times on this forum. Focusing solely on the stated sensitivity of a speaker is an incomplete view/assessment. You have to also be aware of a speaker’s impedance measurements and impedance characteristics and behavior as a load. Amplifiers have to deal with this aspect of every speaker it is expected to drive. Particularly relevant for tube power amplifiers. 
Charles

I really like John DeVore’s approach as described in this snippet from a 2019 interview:

Before 2000 I’d never even seriously considered starting a speaker company. I was having fun building just for me and my friends, and a quick survey of the HiFi landscape showed dozens of established speaker brands, many with compelling histories, led by "experts." I was just an art major playing drums in East Village rock bands, selling HiFi on the side. A closer look at the speakers available at the time though revealed more nuance. The trend throughout the 80s and 90s had been towards lower sensitivity and lower impedance--in designs that favored frequency response with no regard to drivability. These were the days when the top rated speakers from Wilson, Infinity, Thiel, Apogee, and many others dipped down below 2 ohms! It was the age of current monster solid state amps and CDs.

In contrast, my designs had evolved to be higher sensitivity, and more importantly, to have higher, smoother impedance. While there were many solid-state amps I admired, I also loved tubes, including many mid-level vintage designs from Sherwood, Pilot, Dynaco and others. While some of them would perform decently with the typical 86dB, 4-Ohm speaker of the time, they really came alive with speakers presenting a more generous load. By 2000 I realized I had something to offer the speaker market that didn’t exist: a speaker that was very easy to drive, but wasn’t a giant hornloaded thing, or a single-driver compromise. A speaker that looked and sounded "normal" and worked in regular rooms. With the added bonus: if my speakers allow more amps to run with less stress, the amps sound better which makes my speakers sound better.

It really is amazing hearing how good his speakers sound by keeping the impedance high and smooth - nominal 10 ohms and never dipping below 8 ohms in my O/96’s. It’s most striking in my tubes amps with SET and push-pull triode designs. The synergy is just remarkable and the sonics that develop by keeping stress off the amps is glorious. This certainly is in stark contrast to other 90+dB speakers that have a 4 ohm impedance. Just pushing more out of an amp by presenting a lower impedance may gain you volume but it may be comparatively challenged to deliver lucid beauty.

Indeed that would matter except the Tekton Literature and their website indicate 2.83V/m and the Lab tested at 2.83V/m.  no "W" used. So the comparison is apples to apples.  This is also the question the owner would not answer.  Nice video, but not relevant.  The tester even notes the specific impedance at spending the majority of the audioband.  Excerpt below:

My estimate of the Impact's sensitivity was 87.5dB(B)/2.83V/m, considerably lower than the specified 94dB. (Speakers with true sensitivities greater than 90dB tend to be rare and expensive.) The impedance is specified as 4 ohms. My measurement of the impedance magnitude (fig.1, solid trace) reveals that while the impedance does drop to 4 ohms in the lower midrange, it otherwise lies above 6 ohms for almost the entire audioband.
The reality is that posting a higher sensitivity benefits sales. Companies know that most will not test their own or even research an independent lab verification. While Davore is correct in saying that these specs may be meaningless to most people, many here are not "Most" people. 
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