@lewm , really? Some speaker manufacturers, to make their speakers sound better at low volumes and reduce sibilance tuned their speakers with a built in Gundry dip. Wilson did this with the Watt/Puppy. It is just another application of Fletcher and Munson's research. I'm not entirely sure but I think the BBC first started doing this in broadcasting or in their monitors maybe both.
It seems that many people here are talking about distortion not true sibilance. |
Perhaps try cleaning the record? At this time, I’m going through the pile o records here. The difference is not subtle. Even a very clean record, in appearance, sounds improved after the cleaning. Sometimes there is some nasty stuff on the records that takes a while to dislodge. |
This is probably totally off field. Although it could be similar.
In my case I found that a combination of certain close frequencies and intensities interacted to create a tinny sound. To give you an idea of the range, Kiki Dee in particular sounded dreadful.
Two solutions combined to fix the issue.
Firstly I worked on my speakers. Upgrading crossover components plus treating the internals to reduce reflections and adding sound absorption filling so contamination on the rearward movement of the cones was as reduce as far as possible. After all, inward movement of the cone is 50% of the sound.
Secondly I added Supertweeters.
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I find that capacitors affect sibilance quite a lot. The better the cap, the less sibilance (in general). There is a cap thread concurrently.
Also, the stability of the phono stage can contribute IIRC.
Other aspects of setup you have already addressed - but you may find that setting VTA so that the tail of the cartridge is down improves things.
Good luck. |
Put it on. This is one of the few records that somehow survived in storage at my parents basement - I bought this when it first came out.
Quite a "thin" sounding recording. Think I know why it survived. Must have left it in their basement because I didn't care for it.
Plays as new :) |
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There is a lot of siblance on a lot of recordings for sure but on the men at work album particularly especially the opening verse of who can it be now and you hear it more on the vinyl than streaming because a good vinyl setup does not hide the flaws in the recording at all.
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It's Men At Work. I'd not sweat it........... |
Erik, my room is 13x10x8. I have acoustically treated it pretty well. The speakers are on the long side. Thanks for everyone's input. I really do appreciate it. I'm resting a little easier in that I hear otber members battling sibilance too. |
You did the right things. Recordings are what they are. Good quality digital helps establish a reference standard to help identify issues with tricky items like proper turntable setup |
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And if your system slices your throat. don't go running to Mijostyn.Seriously, Mijo, good point. I never knew about the Gundry dip.
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You will never stop sibilance by adjusting a cartridge, miss-tracking maybe. A cartridge can make sibilance worse by having a rise or peak in that region but it is upper midrange not treble. It is the highest frequencies that suffer with poor alignment and poor alignment does not increase high frequencies but decreases them and this is above 12kHz a full octave at the minimum above the problem. |
True sibilance is caused because our ears are most sensitive at certain frequencies mainly between 3 and 4 kHz. Many recording studio's use a house curve with a BBC or Gundry dip which drops these frequencies a little to try and prevent sibilance in their recordings. Some recordings without this correction are going to sound harsh on any system. You can stop this entirely by EQing this frequency band down just a dB or two.
I keep such a curve handy in my presets to deal with this problem. Sibilance occurs with instruments and voices that have a lot of energy in this region. Female voices and violins are classic. If your system can make it through an early Ricky Lee Jones recording without slicing your throat you have the problem licked. The problem is if you depress that band too much the music will start to sound... I guess muffled would be the right term. So, there is a trade off. |
War of the World's is the Album I use to check Sibilance.
On Side One, Richard Burton does Three Narrations all with differing impaction from the Sibilance produced.
One of the Narrations is very detracting, to the point of being uncomfortable.
It is this Narration that I use to detect how changes I have made within the system can effect the levels of Sibilance.
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good story, enjoy your improvements. |
Thanks Millercarbon. Yeah I have an adjustable tonearm so I should try by ear. |
The sound you are referring to is almost certainly on the record, and nothing you can do will ever change that. Compare different copies of the same record and this is one of the differences you will likely find. The improvement you heard is minor improvement in cartridge setup. VTA by the way should always be set by ear. Also you do VTA last, as VTF affects VTA. So if you heard any improvement it was blind luck.
Forget sibilance. It is there, or not, and nothing much anyone can do but buy another copy. Which, this being the nature of vinyl, I can guarantee will have some other flaws.
Instead, listen for the balance between the attack of notes and their fundamental tone or body, the balance between top and bottom end. Adjust VTA very, very slightly up or down. Either way. If you go up and the sound gets too thin then go down. If you go down and the sound gets too fat then go up. Whichever way you go, keep going one tiny bit at a time until it stops getting better. Then go back about half of whatever the last step was. Keep going back and forth until the sound locks in and you know you nailed it.
This is the way to do VTA. When done, you may be higher or lower than you were but it for sure will sound better because it is now set the way it should be, by how it sounds. |
