musician aquarius r2r dac any good?

 juanmanuelfangioii   -    Trere is a dealer for APL  hi fi  in America  -  APL USA  usa-sales@aplhifi.com

I have APL  DSD AR dac now  and it's great - extremely detailed and dynamic sound, converts all pcm formats to DSD - I bought it blindly but it was worth it.  - outstanding dac.

@soix I am using Windows 11 and the Douk is plug and play. I connected the Douk to my Pegasus using cheap AmazonBasics HDMI cable and it worked like a charm. The Douk will appear as XMos XS1-U8 on your Windows so make sure you select it as the system output. Roon infuriatingly does not use it by default and I have to manually enable it again after each Windows update. 

@tjag I used the I2s with my Pegasus and I had to say the difference with the USB input was minimal if any, but I still used it anyway because with the Douk I could actually adjust the volume in Windows. Without it I had to reach to my amplifier volume knob. With my Lab12 Dac1, the difference between with USB and Coaxial is more significant, probably the coaxial implementation is more well thought out. 

@auroravengeance Did you have to do anything to get the Douk to work with the Pegasus?  I have both but I get no sound when trying to use the Douk into the Pegasus’ i2S input.  Thanks for any tips. 

Here is a curved ball.

The Musician Aquarius/Pegasus DACs don't have a clock out for syncing like the Terminator. Therefore, " if " the ranking Blake wrote (below) were correct, then:

Aquarius/Pegasus + PhoenixUSB   (USB interface)

would rank higher than 

Aquarius/Pegasus + Gaia without its "clock in" feature engaged.  (I2S interface)

Oh dear lol

the ranking of best sonic performance was:

1. Terminator Plus + Gaia with the Terminator Plus "clock out" feature engaged upstream to the Gaia.

2. Terminator Plus + PhoenixUSB

3. Terminator Plus + Gaia without Terminator Plus "clock out" feature engaged.

4. Mutec MC-3+ USB

@auroravengeance

Thanks for the link.

Coaxial supports less resolution than the USB and I2S. That is a deal breaker for many.

Regarding if the I2S was better than the USB, it depends on which interface was implemented better. For example the Holo Audio recommends using the USB, while Denafrips/Musician recommend the I2S.

I had this discussion on another thread (check below), I was then "certain" that the Innuos PhoenixUSB was the way to go because of the huge number of recommendations and positive reviews. However, after I got more feedback on the thread I realized it really depended on which interface the developer invested more in.

Note the Phoenix here refers to the Innuos PhoenixUSB.

Blake wrote

Posted September 22, 2020

I was hoping Srajan at 6Moons would compare the Phoenix, Gaia and some other D/D converters.

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/denafrips6/4/

While the review is not yet finished, in his review of the Denafrips Avatar, Srajan notes that he did compare the Phoenix, Gaia and through extrapolation to another review, the Mutec MC-3+ USB. While the comparison was not perfect in that he compared Phoenix going to the Terminator Plus usb input, whereas the Gaia was going in to the Terminator Plus I2S input (there was no way around this since Gaia doesn’t have USB output, and the Phoenix only has USB output), the ranking of best sonic performance was:

1. Terminator Plus + Gaia with the Terminator Plus "clock out" feature engaged upstream to the Gaia.

2. Terminator Plus + Phoenix

3. Terminator Plus + Gaia without Terminator Plus "clock out" feature engaged.

4. Mutec MC-3+ USB

Dante Rivera compared his Terminator USB vs I2s in this YT video. The I2s is best. However, this seems specific to the Denafrips DACs. For different DACs I think it depends on which interface is implemented best.

Both Koso and Chameleonracks have the Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC. They preferred the USB interface over the I2s. They used the USB interface in combination with the PhoenixUSB and Intona USB Isolator, respectively.

I'm planning on getting the Audio GD DI-20HE DDC in a month or so.

It has been recommended by my UK dealer. 

For most DACs it seems that I2s or Coaxial are always better than direct USB.

I have been using this with my former Pegasus and current Lab 12. It’s the cheapest and fuss free way to provide I2s and Coaxial from a desktop.

https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Interface-Coaxial-Optical-Audio/dp/B08HN3VSF8/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=2XEK9R0XJT293&keywords=douk+audio+mini+xmos&qid=1661048048&sprefix=douk+audio+mini+xmos%2Caps%2C366&sr=8-2#

@tjag 

i2s should be better than usb for sure. But, I am out of $$$$ for a good DDC now. Let’s wait for next year tax return season!!

I have already known they come from the same designer. Where else can you buy this quality of r2r for this low price?

@tjag

@viethluu 

In the Musician Phoenix DDC Review Sandu Vitalie compared the I2S vs USB on the Musician Aquarius DAC.

II. Musician Phoenix + Musician Aquarius via I2S

The audible difference wasn’t only immediate and apparent as it was with a Singxer SU-6, the difference was actually bigger to my expectancy levels.

On its own, Aquarius is a mighty fine sounding DAC, certainly up there with some of the nicest R-2R DACs I’ve tried to this point, but when locking the signal via I2S from the Phoenix, there was a serious jump in resolution and ultimately, dynamic range.

I would never call the Aquarius as muddy, grainy or soft sounding via USB, but it felt that way when I started my comparisons. 

I2S is better than USB in the Aquarius.

Check this

The Chinese gods are laughing in the skies 😂

This is the Gaia

And this is the Phoenix

The good part is that the Gaia is available on the used market for about $1500.

@tjag 

Good suggestion, I will check out the Mano. I do not know a lot pf European product though.

My goal is still conventional DDC through USB connection, so it will be either the GAIA or the PHOENIX.

there is “Mercury Streamer” that is about to come out, converting ethernet directly to i2s. That product has the potential to destroy all DDC competition in the market. 

There is already the Mano ULTRA mkIII Farad Music Streamer and it is not that cheap at $1000 (without taxes).

I highly doubt it will be easy to beat a dedicated quality DDC.

The Singxer SU-6 is already highly praised. GoldenSound wrote this:

Overall, the Gaia is a great DDC with perhaps the most comprehensive feature set of any I’ve tested.

Those wanting the absolute best performance should still look to the Singxer SU6.

Still the SU-6 was beaten by the Phoenix. In the Musician Phoenix DDC Review Sandu Vitalie wrote:

Musician Phoenix ($1699) VS Singxer SU-6 ($750)

When Phoenix replaced it, I have felt a massive intake of fresh air, like I opened windows towards my music. Micro-details hopped on board and I could better see the contour of the notes compared to the SU-6.

Leading edges appeared by a tiny bit sharper and I could easier follow their trail from inception to decay.

With Phoenix, the key word was focus, as it was moving the spotlights towards the smallest nuances and what was already impressive on SU-6, felt by a hair clearer on the Phoenix.

In my case, Phoenix changed the fate of three high-performance DACs, some were only marginally improved, while others felt like listening to higher tiered versions of themselves.

Besides repelling all types of noise and improving the pace, rhythm and timing, Musician Pegasus became highly energetic, Chord Dave a lot smoother and relaxed than ever before and Aquarius a lot clearer and 3D sounding.

@viethluu Thanks for the heads up.  If the Mercury can provide performance closer to the Phoenix at a price closer to the SU-6 I’m all in.  Hey, it’s nice being able to look forward to adding a DDC in the future knowing you’re gonna get a significant performance boost.  Not many things in audio electronics are such a sure lock. 

@soix The DDC is my project for next year, buddy. I am pretty sure the Phoenix DDC will improve the DAC further.

Food for thought, there is “Mercury Streamer” that is about to come out, converting ethernet directly to i2s. That product has the potential to destroy all DDC competition in the market. It is made in the USA as well.

@viethluu I kinda hate to bring this up because it involves spending more $$$, but just saw this review and the Musician Phoenix DDC seems to take the Aquarius (and Pegasus) to a much higher level of performance. Just fyi…

https://soundnews.net/accessories/level-up-your-dac-musician-phoenix-ddc-review/

Sorry.  I’m still planning on picking up a Singxer SU-6 for my Pegasus because that also provides nice benefits, and as much as I’d love to add the Phoenix it’s just not in the budget for me. 

@viethluu 

It probably needs additional hours of use. But I understand, the DAC has to satisfy you, not me.😀

Charles

@charles1dad 

Thanks man.

The DAC is still being evaluated. It is definitely more relax than the Chord. But, the bass is not as fast as I used to though.

@viethluu 

The mid-range of the Aquarius is definitely better than the Hugo2. Much more focus and clearly defined vocal. The Chord Hugo2 is a little bit more blurry in comparison.

This is a major factor IMO. 80-90% of the music is in the midrange, life and soul of the music. I’d easily choose the Aquarius for this reason alone. I do however recognize that each listener has their individual priorities. Congratulations on acquiring your new DAC. Seems to be a winner. 
Charles 

maybe the burns-in will improve it. Who know!

Interesting. 

@soix 

unfortunately, that is not what I am finding. The Aquarius is very close to the Hugo2 in term of soundstage depth and width. To be honest with you, it is very hard to beat the soundstage of a Chord even with r2r DAC.

The only DAC that can beat the soundstage of the Hugo2, that I know, is the Bartok

@viethluu Thanks for the update! Yeah, another 50 hours or so might make a difference. One area I was thinking you might see a noted improvement is in a larger 3D soundstage as this is an area I find R2R DACs can have an advantage (along with tonality) over delta-sigma DACs. Anyway, thanks again for the update and look forward to hearing more.

@soix 

I am just hear it this afternoon after about 50 hours of burn-in

My first impression is: The Aquarius is a little bit smoother than the Hugo2 at the top end. Both DACs have approximately the same amount of transparency and refinement though.

The mid-range of the Aquarius is definitely better than the Hugo2. Much more focus and clearly defined vocal. The Chord Hugo2 is a little bit more blurry in comparison.

The bass of the Hugo2 is more punchy and more agile (which is what I expect from FPGA-D/S DAC) .

This is not the final result though. The burning process is still happening. 

Excellent. 

Congratulations, look forward to hearing your impressions.

My Musician Aquarius just arrived today. I am burning it in right now. Will report back with the result.

I’ve also been getting to the point of wanting a decent r2r dac to replace my d70s - which itself is no slouch! But am wanting that special something a true ladder dac can bring. Don’t know if anyone here already mentioned the new Ladder Schumann Dac? Looks suspiciously like an ares ii…But is already being compared favorably against the Musician Pegasus:

Gladmo,

Exact same boat here, the Pontus offers a sound signature that is near perfect to my ears. I talked to Alvin, and he suggested the Iris DDC would take the Pontus to a new level…..and he mention that some are finding the Pontus plus DDC preferable to the Venus.

A Pontus Iris combo is is $700 less than a Venus, and the Pontus Hermes is the same price as the Venus

The VM-1a has 7 tubes and works ONLY with the 2 headphones I listed. I generally do not like tubes, but there are exceptions. With the Benchmark DAC3B, the sound is incredibly detailed, fast, and rivals the very best sound I have heard from ANY system (no room to contend with).

The CA-1a sounds like headphones on steroids, while the SR1a (called ear speakers) sounds like speakers attached to your ears. Stereophile will review the amp soon. I hope they use a very neutral DAC like the DAC3B.

With the Musetec 005 the sparkle on top is just not there relative to the DAC3B. If I did not have the DAC3B I may have been content with the VM-1a and 005 pairing but I lucked out hearing the DAC3B with the VM-1a.

Today I replaced, my CODA 07x preamp and put in the Benchmark LA4 preamp + Benchmark AHB2 monos + Musetec 005. Just stunning. Better than the DAC3B in this stack. I have to decide on some gear pairings for my office and this will be the final setup.

For my Livingroom I will get a second Musetec 005 + CODA 07x preamp + KRELL 175XD amp. I may sell the 07x to buy a second LA4.

I love the 005 with my 2-channel speakers (incredible sound) but once got the unit back I also started listening with my VM-1a. SR1a, and CA-1a and it was not good at all. My Benchmark DAC3B is so much better with this headphone gear.

“It is all about synergy”

I believe that most can appreciate and accept the consequences of synergy. This seems to be an extreme example. Why does this DAC’s performance vary so markedly between speaker and headphone usage?
Charles

I have the Musetec 005 that is mentioned above. I am a huge fan boy of that unit. I lent it to my friend for a month and he did not like it for the gear he was testing it with, the RAAL SR1a + CA-1a headphones and VM-1a amp.

I love the 005 with my 2-channel speakers (incredible sound) but once got the unit back I also started listening with my VM-1a. SR1a, and CA-1a and it was not good at all. My Benchmark DAC3B is so much better with this headphone gear.

It is all about synergy.

@viethluu ,just a thought. if you do not mind... You wrote ’But, I am looking for some DAC that can get close to the Bartok’ characteristic.’

I believe that it will be very hard to find some dac in that price range that you have mentioned (3-5tusd) that will give you what you seek (if Bartok is your reference) so, I wonder, why dont you try some DCS of previous generation, like Puccini or perhaps Debussy?

They are, indeed, still very capable players and despite the ’hype’ that every new stuff is marketed, I do not believe that new dacs in 3-5tusd range can ’beat’ them

I had Puccini with the clock and have heard some new dacs (ps audio, ayre and some others) in even higher price range from one that you are looking for and Imho they were not in the same league (personally I prefer cd players still and have Burmester 089, which has some traits that I like better than Dcs, but on the other hand, some things Dcs Puccini does better) You may find next link informative and there is also a part where Dcs people share their opinion about r2r dacs

@auroravengeance

I appreciate your additional comments.In what I consider not inexpensive but reasonable price with reported high performance value are

Abbas DAC 2/3/4 SE models.

Lab-12 DAC Reference

Merason DAC1

Musetec 005

These are all highly regarded for both high resolution and yet remaining very natural sounding. Not easy to pull off.

Charles

@charles1dad I've heard Wavedream and La Scala MKII first during my search. I was more or less set on getting La Scala then I've heard the Lab12. The Lab12 sounded more detailed and musical than La Scala at less than half the price, it was a no brainer decision for me. (pro tip: insist on the coaxial input for Lab12, the USB implementation on it was sadly noticeably inferior).

I actually got around to listen to MSB Discrete earlier this week while checking out Vitus amplifiers. It was amazingly detailed and organic sounding as well, but I struggle to think how it was better than the Lab12. So I guess my next DAC upgrade if ever would probably cost $20000 upwards. 

@auroravengeance

I have read very good things about the made in Greece Lab 12 DAC Reference. Also similarly good comments about the Abbas (What’s best forum thread) DACs. Both of these being reasonably priced small European manufacturers.

Charles

Same person was looking for feedback on that same DAC and there were zero reply’s. I guess it is mostly found in Europe. May be but until I hear on I will be keeping my Moon 680D.

'blows away"

....and there it is....

apl dsd ar dac -  some say blows away everithing in his price range.

@daledeee1 I was curious to test Lampizator tube DACs, but have not gotten around to it yet because the local dealer was quite out of the way. The simple reason that we keep hearing Denafrips and Musician being recommended is simply because they had been aggressive in providing review units to reviewers and media. And it helps also the DACs really punch above their price point. 

I mean, yes, there are better DACs than Musician Aquarius and Denafrips Terminator Plus (disclaimer: have not heard Terminator Plus yet), but most of them are prohibitively expensive like Mola Mola Tambaqui and MSB Discrete, though some of them have quietly dropped their price realizing the competition. Aqua La Scala MKII is actually cheaper than Terminator Plus in my city. These other brands are definitely more niche and depend more on word of mouth for marketing, but if you are fortunate enough to have local dealers definitely should give them a listen. I recently replaced my Pegasus with Lab12 Reference Dac1 and I could not be happier. 

Got it!

I just went through a DAC upgrade myself. Ended up with a Bricasti M3. 
Years ago I had an Audio Research CD3 MkII CD player running it with ARC LS-25 preamp, Pass X250.5 amp and B&W N803. I sold the CD3 MkII when I went with a computer based system and eventually with streaming. I’ve been thru a number of DACs, speakers, preamps and amps and was unable to replicate that sheer musicality and level of engagement that CD player had. Until the Bricasti landed in my system last Sunday. I’ve been glued to the chair listening ever since. 
Throw this DAC in a mix. I’m pretty sure you won’t regret it if you end up with it. 

@audphile1 I tried every filters on the Hugo2. The sound changed a little bit with each filter. Yet the soundstage stays the same, the transparency does changed a tiny bit, not increasing but decreasing.

I also tried the Hugo2 running on battery only, the transparency improved a little bit.

Like I said, the Hugo2 has reach its maximum capacity. It has become a bottleneck in my system. My need for a new DAC is real.

@gladmo I am on the same boat as you buddy. My impression of the Aquarius all comes from internet review. What I am hoping for is landing some where between the Venus and the Terminator. That is why I picked up the Aquarius. I am also exploring the option of having Audio Note r2r. From what I heard they are also very good.

@viethluu just curious, have you tried the Warm “orange” filter on the Qutest? I remember when I had the Qutest I really liked the sweeter sound that engaging the Warm filter produced. 

I don't hear much talk of Lampizator.  Are these different type?  Just curious, my bank account won't support.

Gustard has just released a new R2R dac the R26. No reviews out yet but their chip based dac all get high marks from owners. It also is loaded with other features than can be of interest. I am waiting for someone to post a review and listening experience. The cost is $1800.

@viethluu I totally understand what you are saying. I want vertical movements must as much as you.

I think I need to be really clear about my point. I haven’t heard the Denafrips Venus II, but from my internet research and my resulting supposition, the Pontus II + Hermes via I²S is the same price as a Venus II, but I propose that it is really a better sounding setup. There many user experiences described out there on the internet. I feel that my experience transcends those described by Venus II users. Therefore, consider the Pontus II + Hermes via I²S. I don’t see anyone else talking about this particular value play, which sits at the same price as a Venus II.