I am still trying to get a decent sound quality out of my system. Currently I am running an Audio Engine DAC and not really happy with sound quality. Would investing in a more robust DAC be of benefit?
Here is an edited blurb from a recent high-end DAC. review that encapsulates most of the key differences in a high-end unit. In this case the WEISS DAC 502.
For the digital audiophile, D/A conversion could be the most important link in the entire chain. Given the nature of advancement and product turnover in this category, DACs tend to come and go in audiophile systems, and face replacement quicker than any other component.
Not only is there intense competition for a spot on the audiophile’s rack, but given the plethora of brands and unique design approaches in the D/A converter market, just getting the audiophile’s attention is a difficult task for manufacturers.
Some brands trademark their proprietary tech using catchy acronyms; others try their best to reinvent the wheel.
Weiss, whose digital product design roots stretch back to the late 1970s, takes a more traditional approach and aims for higher levels of sophistication without the need to pioneer new technology. Given the results when comparing the company's flagship DAC502 to competitors, it's clear that Weiss knows what they're doing, and their decades of experience play a significant role in the sound quality of this converter.
Read along as we examine the exceptional component-size converter from the Swiss manufacturer in Part 1 of our exclusive review below.
For most of the DAC, Weiss uses SMD (Surface Mount Device) parts, which means more precise tolerances, better matching and lower inductance throughout the circuit, and more predictable signal accuracy. It also means the various elements of the circuit – regulators, I/V stages, output stages and the like – can be seen in a bird’s eye view. It’s all high-performance-focused, but certain parts of the inner workings are easy to comprehend.
Arranged symmetrically and intuitively on the DAC board you see top shelf DAC chips, regulator circuits dotted left right and center, a voltage stage and its regulator, and discrete output stages - one per channel.
There isn’t a lot of bloat to this circuit – it’s clear where the R&D and money goes into these devices. Regulation everywhere and multiple rails of isolated power (separate digital and analog) are expensive, and seem to be the key to the exceptional sound quality of this DAC. The further you go into the high end of audio, the more you read about extravagant power supplies and intense regulation, and Weiss is using those philosophies throughout.
Why is it important to regulate and isolate every small voltage in the box, and to have advanced regulators throughout the DAC? Well, remembering that the music we hear is simply energy that we’ve modulated, and remembering that signal purity is essential at the DAC level before multiple stages of amplification, Weiss’ decisions make sense.
Honestly there are many things you need to address. You have to make a legit budget and then stick to it. Since you love your speakers, go from there. To me, the two most important things are source adn speakers. There are some awesome amps on the market that won't kill you. A single ended amp will tame some of the harshness that a horn can throw. I agree with Steve at Empirical. I do have the Synchro Mesh. I use it to connect my TV (optical) and Blu Ray player to my DAC via it's BNC connection. The difference between optical to the DAC directly and through the SM is staggering. It really made that big a difference.
I'd be looking at a new DAC after the amp. No offense, but the Yamaha is just not up to speed for the system. It's a choke point right now I feel. There are some great DAC adn servers on the market right now. I am actually selling Steve's former server with the Paul Hynes power supply as I have made a tremendous upgrade (costs MUCH more too, lol). You don't need to break the bank to get great sound. You have a nice start with your speakers. Keep us up on your thoughts.
Agree with everyone about the amplification. A tube amp of any type will transform the problem and open your eyes and ears.
Putting those dollars into a DAC is a waste. DACs are a dime a dozen and a commodity with their overall ability for less than a $100 these days. You will discover this yourself.
Try a decent tube amp and you'll get your answer fast.
You have to spring for the current model, R-1 (link below), &799 + shipping. That's not dirt-cheap, but it's still way less than most balanced output DACs.
BTW, Schitt may have something cheaper w/balanced outs. Not sure about that.
While upgrading your source will probably give you an improvement, and going to tubes will most likely sweeten up the sound, it sounds to me that you need to work on speaker placement. Klipsch speakers can get a little shouty, especially when paired with a brighter integrated like the Yamaha. Good speaker setup is crucial.
Addressing the digital question only (amps & room treatments are worthy side topics, as others noted)--I found a very large increase in my appreciation of digital audio just by ditching delta-sigma DACs and going to multibit, especially NOS (non-oversampling) multibit. After doing so, all that subtle harshness, hyped transients, and shallow 2D note bodies are pretty much gone; music has its true weight & impact restored. The cheapest really good sounding NOS DAC I know of is the Audio GD R2R 11, a combination unit (DAC + headphone amp). You can easily use it as an amp only, however, using USB input/RCA output pair to preamp/amp. You'd get one of the most praised inexpensive NOS DACs around + a bonus (and rather good/strong) headphone amp--for <$300. Just sayin'...
Another vote for a tube amp. I have had Klipsch Heresys since 1984 (now in a second system). For many many years, I powered them with SS amps. Sounded fine, but when i got a tube integrated (Jolida), I experienced a huge jump in sq. I really think those speakers are made for tubes.
I agree that you should start at the source. The distortion you speak of may really be jitter from the DAC presenting as harshness thru the speakers.
Additionally, as I stated above, a hollow sound may indicate that you need acoustic treatment added to your room. Without any treatment, soundwaves carrying the frequency spectrum, IOW bass, midrange, highs are not being directed to your listening position.
The room is a major factor in reproducing audio. But your primary upgrade should be the DAC/transport digital chain.
I agree that you should start at the source. The distortion you speak of may really be jitter from the DAC presenting as harshness thru the speakers.
Additionally, as I stated above, a hollow sound may indicate that you need acoustic treatment added to your room. Without any treatment, soundwaves carrying the frequency spectrum, IOW bass, midrange, highs are not being directed to your listening position.
The room is a major factor in reproducing audio. But your primary upgrade should be the DAC/transport digital chain.
IMO, your weak link is your digital source. This is just as important as the speakers and their placement.
I would not expect miracles from a $169 DAC and a cheap transport by itself. Time to upgrade if you want to get better SQ. Expect to spend $1K for a decent DAC and keep the transport, but change to a good BNC S/PDIF coax cable with RCA adapters and add a reclocker between the transport and DAC.
I would not mess with acoustics until you do these things. Only then will you achieve a focused stereo image with vocalists not being 2 feet wide.
The Klipsch are never going to sound great. It sounds like you are describing the honk that horns always have. Try some Paradigms, at whatever price point you can swing.
The system is made up as stated above with the addition of Yamaha CD S300 cd player, Technics SL 1600 Mark II with Dynavector 10x5 MkII turntable and cart. The weak link are my cables which are basically just copper. The room is not square in shape, hard to describe.
Mfdamon , state what your system is made up of , including cablesto determination be what are your weak nesses. and appropriate cost upgrades, speakers and room size . your only as strong as your weakest link.
Mfdamon , state what your system is made up of , including cablesto determination be what are your weak nesses. and appropriate cost upgrades, speakers and room size . your only as strong as your weakest link.
Sounds first like a speaker placement/room treatment issue. You need to experiment with that--and optimizing that--before shelling out more money on gizmos.
What is your source? The jitter of the source is usually more important than the DAC.
If you are using a transport, then this is probably the weak point. Reclocking with a good resampler like the Synchro-Mesh can make a huge difference, assuming that the DAC does not resist the reclocking.
A single-end triode amp like my Sanei SA-560A (2A3's and Tango transformers) would be a lot better than the SS Yamaha! Those Cornwalls have a sensitivity of 100db/1watt. Most of your listening is at or below 1 watt. SE tube amps are "magic" at the 1 to 7 watt level! Provided of course that the speakers are of high enough sensitivity (Heresy's, Khorns, Cornwall's ...). So changing to another DAC is IMHO not a good idea!
I have a rather modest system. An Yamaha A-S2100 integrated amp, Klipsch Cornwall III load speakers. The room is a bit odd shaped but 30' x 30' with tray ceilings. The sound is distortion... and a kinda hollow sound.
It's doubtful a DAC change will do much unless the rest of the system & acoustics are sorted out... What are your system components upstream?Room size & treated? What exactly don't you like about the sound?
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
