I'm not sure if this is a dumb question, but my mounting distance is between 221 mm and 222 mm. I have a VPI HW-19 with a RB300 arm, and Yip says that the mounting distance should be 222 mm. Do you think that my ruler is off and just go with the 222 mm? Does that .5 mm make a difference?
Thanks! |
Hello... I know this thread has been neglected for some months, but I found it and read with great interest and pleasure its remarks and follow-through on the Mint Tractor and Yip's related products.
Your insights and experience have helped me decided to buy one. The experience I had doing this with Yip yesterday and today was nothing short of remarkable and a real pleasure. He is an extraordinary gentleman and is very willing to assist in every way.
I am very much looking forward to using the Best Tractor (as well as his Mint cleaning fluid and tools) in the next week or so after they arrive. I'll give the thread a report.
Meanwhile, if you have any followups or further thoughts since April, count me as interested!
:) listening,
Ed |
Dgad: the only thing I would humbly report is: the 10x magnifying glass revealed that my stylus could be more than a mm off the line, even though with my naked vision, it seems to be sitting on the line. |
I would like to mention, I have a Wally Tractor Universal and what I love about it is that it works for 3 out of 4 of my tonearms. It handles the Phantom, Breuer and 10.5 inch Schroeder. The Phantom jig is never perfect and the Wally tractor allows me to get it spot on. As for the differences, having never seen a Mint. The Wally is the exact thickness of a 150 gm or so LP. Also it is made out of plastic so it won't break. And it has the arcs and the lines all set for parallax so I am able to sight the stylus point perfectly without feeling I am looking at the wrong angle. Lastly it contains both Baerwald & Lofgren arcs for each arc. Truly a pleasure to use.
On a brief note, I had my Schroeder setup perfectly even before I received the Wally just using the simple 66 null point protractor made out of paper included w. the Schroeder. But the Schroeder pivot point is fairly easy to sight due to the nylon thread being the pivot. |
"Play those problematic LP's or tapes in some systems passionately and uncompromisingly built over many years to minimize distortions while maximizing dynamics - in most cases you'll be happily surprised."
Well said Doug.
Minimising distortions throughout the 'playback' chain whilst ensuring 'reserves' of amplification power is, I believe, the key. |
Well Doug, I'd love to visit. However with regard to Berlioz Requiem, the passages in question are certain loud choral Soprano lines in the opening "Requiem." It sounds like oversaturation to me, but I'll keep my mind open, always works in the end! I've settled on Davis' Classic version which came out on SACD--I like the Westminster acoustic. I've also discovered that the better the system, (even my humble equipment), we end up with a paradox: the more ruthless or heavenly the results, sometime in the same recording! |
Perfect example, Tim.
We've got most of the Mozart symphonies on Philips, with Haitink in the Konzertgebau. For years I described those LP's as veiled, soft, rolled off highs, little sense of soundspace, etc.
Today, while they may not quite match an audiophile label, they've gotten much closer. Low level detail, extended highs and the rich and deep acoustics of that hall are in ample evidence with multiple echoes off back/side walls and the whole bit.
Same for many DG pressings, the band behind Ella on the Verve reissues of the 'Songbooks', etc., etc. The number of bad or even mediocre LP's is much lower than supposed, at least in our collection.
Jdaniel,
I've admired your passion for and knowledge of classical music since you first joined the forum fray a few years ago. I wish I had the time to acquire your knowledge.
Regarding sonics however, I invite you to visit next time you're in the neighborhood, and perhaps expand your sense of what's possible.
If your master tape and LP of the Munch Berlioz Requiem (for example) both sound strident, that doesn't disprove or even test the hypothesis that such stridency arises from distortions in the reproduction system. 'A priori', it is impossible to know whether such problems are due to a bad recording or to the exceptional dynamics and complexity of the recording presenting too many challenges for the system(s) you've heard. In this case, I guarantee that system problems are to blame. I have that LP and it sounds magnificent. Three years ago I'd have firmly endorsed your conclusion, but I was wrong and you are too.
With respect, there is equipment which will do less damage to a signal than the pieces you listed. None of it is cheap, but it exists. Play those problematic LP's or tapes in some systems passionately and uncompromisingly built over many years to minimize distortions while maximizing dynamics - in most cases you'll be happily surprised.
|
System improvements of all kinds (including the Mint) consistently make most "bad" records sound better. I couldn't agree more. You'll know you're on your way when Phillips LPs (v. few of which are 'bad') come to life with the venue context of back and side wall reflections.  Tim  |
Dougdeacon--it's embarrassing to admit but I got more obsessive about second-guessing garish brass and strings than you can imagine, picking up reel to reels of things such as Bernstein's Mahler 2nd, Bernstein's Copland, Stravinsky's own Firebird ballet, Munch's Berlioz Requiem. My conclusion is that Lp's throw pretty much exactly what's on the master tape.
My downstream system is Musical Fidelity A308 and Vandersteen 3a Signatures and Jaquar interconnects and CV-6 bi-wired speaker cables, all with battery packs. |
... garishly-recorded strings and brass still sound bad. The good news: based on my experience there are fewer such records than you probably suppose, especially in classical. System improvements of all kinds (including the Mint) consistently make most "bad" records sound better. The bad news: reread the above and save up more pennies. |
and that's what makes the protractor so excellent--that mortals like myself, (with a little patience and fortitude)... - Jdaniel13 - "More you see .. more you mint .. more you mint .. more you listen " :-) |
I, too received mine a few weeks ago and couldn't be more pleased. Sound is more "freed-up" from the speakers than ever before. There is more separation and air between instruments especially towards the end of records. It's not a miracle worker: Scratches still sound, overplayed, groove-damaged records are still beyond help, and garishly-recorded strings and brass still sound bad. In any case, the protractor has definitely "raised all ships," so to speak, helping my VPI/Dyna 20xl get more off both excellent and marginal-quality records.
Set up took quite awhile the first night, mostly because of fumbling with best lighting and focusing and re-focusing my eye with the 10x loupe. A warning: I used only one eraser to stabilize the VPI platter and it raised the platter enough to throw off the alignment once I took the eraser out. The next night it took all of 45 minutes to get everything absurdly accurate, and that's what makes the protractor so excellent--that mortals like myself, (with a little patience and fortitude), can get everything so dialed in.
( At least if VPI drilled the platter hole to the exact millimeter, the record hole is in the right place, and the tonearm base...AHHHHHH!)
What's best about the Protractor is that it allows |
I just used my new Mint LP and almost went cross eyed, but it worked out nicely on my Linn Sondek TT. I'm lucky that I have a Linn tonearm, so that way I can use the Mint again if I ever upgrade to another Linn arm. Or I guess I could sell it for 1/2 price. Anyway the Mint works very well. |
I got my Mint protractor ten days ago and was finally able to spend some time with it and my Scheu setup this Easter weekend. I didn't listen to anything before starting off but I did put my GeoDisc on the platter and check alignment before going on to the Mint. The stylus was about 2mm in front of the target circle.
Now I wasn't too concerned about such a gross error because the TT had just come back from extended loan to a magazine. They had used another cartridge for their trials and I didn't expect the TT to come back dialed in. The Scheu's arm board allows for adjusting the stylus to pivot distance ( STPD ) so that's what I did. Then I put on the Mint.
Lo and behold the arm pivot was way ( well, relatively way ) back from where it should have been. This was a big surprise and I might have wondered if the Mint was in fact wrong. In discussing the order with Yip, we had found two different effective length figures for the Cantus arm on the Web. Scheu had not responded to enquiry by email. In the end Yip proposed going ahead with the official Scheu figure since he could calculate Baerwald alignment using that as long as I could adjust STPD.
In other words Yip's Mint protractor made it possible for me to set the arm at the correct distance for the first time.
I actually found it easier ( and faster ) to move the arm support than to move the cartridge so that's how I set overhang. I had the same trouble with ageing eyes and the 10X loupe that others have mentioned but the 3X turned out to be effective enough. When it was all done to my satisfaction, after just over an hour and a couple of breaks, I put the GeoDisc back on the platter and cued up.
The stylus settled down smack dab in the dimple.
Well it had done that too before I started, but now I knew that had been an error. This time I could be sure the overhang was right at both inner and outer null points. Playing records bore this out. I tried my setup disc : Rolf Harris, the Wizard of Aussie ( the Tie Me Kangaroo Down guy ). The inner track can sound horribly sibilant but I'd never heard it clearer. Then the Barenboim/Du Pré Haydn cello concerto in C. Strings, ah, massed strings were sweet and clear and the cello had a wonderful richness of tone. What soul Ms. Du Pré put into the performance... I had thought that the Truls Mörk/Iona Brown performance on Virgin CD with the Norwegian Chamber Orchestra was the best but now I have a new reference.
It's wonderful to feel this confident of my arm/cart setup. I'll play with VTA, then go back and do it all over once or twice more with the Mint. This level of accuracy is addictive... |
I have owned one of those very nice, very expensive aluminum alignment tools for the past 25-30 years. I can't imagine how many cartridges I have aligned... well almost aligned. After reading the good comments I purchased the Mint Tractor from Yip with thoughts of checking my already great alignment (He says as a joke).
The Mint arrived and I could tell from the directions that it had the ability to achieve great accuracy. I checked my existing cantilever angle and immediately could tell it was off. So time to start from the beginning.
In setting the overhang, my old setting was off by about .075" or around 2mm... Wow! Got it corrected and then set the cantilever angle, on the money! You have to go back and keep checking the overhang, but the more you work at it the better the accuracy becomes.
The ease of doing the alignment is directly related to the quality of the magnifier that you use. I bought both that were offered with the Mint, but had an 6x Peak (Lithco) magnifier that has a 1.75" diameter piece of glass (use the eyepiece only). The wide field of the Peak makes a huge difference and does not cause nearly as much eye fatigue.
Quality is always in the listening, and it was like adding a major component. The definition of each instrument was smooth and defined and the soundstage had depth and separation.
Obviously, designing an alignment device that is made for your specific tonearm is the way to go. In fact, I'll probably want to go back in a week or two, check it again to see if I can squeeze any more performance out of it. The tractor worked great, Yip was a pleasure to deal with and the entire Mint experience "Left a Good Taste in My Mouth"! |
Well that's good news, since it was better on the first play.
Cheers. |
Tfkaudio .. you 'll notice your cartridge 'll need not less than 4/5 hours playing to give you its best sound.
This is due to the new suspension position after have "mintled" the cartridge. |
I just got my Mint LP Best Tractor today and spent a couple hours checking and re-aligning my cartridge. I found that my cartridge was just short of the arc line. When I was done, I put on the excellent reissue of "Astral Weeks" by Van Morrison. I had listened to it just before making the adjustments. My impressions afterward are very positive. The bass, which I thought was very good but maybe a tad tubby, was now much better. The high-pitched instruments, such as the hi-hat, snare, and vibraphone, which I thought were a little recessed in the mix, came forward into proportion VERY nicely.
I plan to listen to a lot a records this week. Next week, I may try to improve upon the setup. I think I may be able to get it even more accurate.
This is a very good product.
Cheers. |
Well, it's hard to say exactly and here's why: I changed cartridges, so it's not like I can truly judge the sound difference to be a result of the tractor setup. Also have to consider that a new cart needs to break in.
Additionally, I ran out of my 'personal time' and am now sort of on 'family time', meaning I can't do any critical listening just yet. But I am playing an LP over and over, running downstairs to re-start it every so often (trying to accelerate break in of the new Dynavector 20XL) and my first impressions are that it sounds *very * good.... |
Yes Mad,
But how does it sound now? Is it making you glad you spent all that time trying for pefection? Are ya happy?
Dan |
I brought another light into the equation this morning and realized that I wasn't as accurate with Step A as I thought... so I started over. Every time I think I had it, I walked away and came back fresh a half hour later. If it looked good I moved on, otherwise adjusted again.
Step B is a pain - I'd adjust alignment to find I screwed up overhang. And step B seems a little more 'subjective' than step A.
Anyhow, was finally satisfied with step B and declared myself finished. :-) |
Madfloyd, as you say it is difficult to get good angle to see. This is exactly why I have my 'table turned so that the arm is in the back. For my setup this allows me to get to both alignment points easier but the one closest to the spindle still gives me the most trouble seeing.
AND, don't forget, perfection is not possible. Even with the Mint. The best we can do is work to eliminate as much error as we can. It is most definitely an interative process. The more error we can adjust out the more we are rewarded. |
Madfloyd,if you follow Audiogon's "Bad Boys",you must realize there is NO such thing as "Good Enough"!
Anything less than perfection will NOT be tolerated! -:)
Best |
Small update: with fresh eyes I did see that the cantilever angle is a bit off. I find this part the hardest to determine because I have to use one angle to see if the lines are parallel and then tilt up a bit to see the angle of the cantilever... without shifting left or right.
Then it seems be very tricky to adjust the cartridge alignment without messing up overhang/distance.
I'm tring to walk away from the table every time I find myself thinking "Screw it - this has to be good enough and much better than how it was previously setup". I don't think I would have this discipline if it weren't for all the rave reviews here, so thanks guys. |
I received my tractor this week and began the fun yesterday.
I had wanted to change my cartridge and was waiting for the tractor to arrive before doing so, but I first checked the overhang with the old cartridge and it was off by a few millimeters.
So I changed cartridge and adjusted the overhang as best I could; once I got the hang of using the loupe I was able to be accurate on the outside arc, but I can't seem to find an angle that allows me to see with the same accuracy for the arc near the spindle.
I briefly checked out part B. It took me a whlie to be able to 'see' the 'country road' the way I was supposed to, and I think I'm seeing it correctly, but it doesn't really look like the angle of the cantilever is off. I'm guessing from everyone else's comments that the chances of this must be mighty slim and that I need to concentrate more. I'm about to do that today, but thought I'd just throw this out there: did anyone find that they didn't need to do much in part B? |
Just finished alligning my cartridge with the tractor. Everything went pretty well, about 1 1/2 hours to do the job correctly.
First of all, I found proper lighting to be critical! The first time around setting overhang I thought I had it just right using the light from the magnifying glass (in a well lit area and using my littlite from a distance). On a second take I decided to lay the littlite right down on the tractor, I could now detect I was off the line by a fair margin.
Secondly, I think allignment could possibly be more exact if the thick parallel lines were printed slightly farther apart. My Dynavector 20XL's wider stylus covers those lines, a little open space between the stylus and thick parallel lines would perhaps make allignment a bit more exact.
My new allignment with the tractor exposed the flaws of the VPI and DB protractors I had previously used. Tonight's listening session will illuminate the sonic benefits. |
Oh, the spindle size. yes, forgot about that one. Well just measured it with a caliper and it's good news for me. Looks like I can use it for the other record decks.
Thanks to you guys , swampwalker and Isanchez. |
Rodgen,
If the spindle diameter is the same, then the Mint tractor can be used for the same arm/cartridge combination. Yip takes the extra step of taking the spindle diameter into account to make sure that the overhand is spot on.
|
Redgen- I'm pretty sure the answer is that that's only true if the pivot to spindle distance is the same. Often not the case. |
A rather late and newbie question.
I would assume that the tonearm pivot to turntable spindle distance and cartridge stylus to cartridge mounting hole distances are some of the parameters used in determining the final plots of Yip's protractor, my question is would it be possible to use the same tonearm-cartridge protractor on another deck using the same tonearm cartridge combination? |
I would add that Yip sent me a sample of his Mint LP solution and that is a great product as well. I will likely order some when my current bottle of Disc Doctor is gone. In his last e-mail he actually rememberred my wife's name and wished her well. |
As of lately, Yip has to be swamped with orders. Seems many analog aficianados are now odering the MintLP. I know everyone that has bought one is very well pleased with the product and service that come with the MintLP. I wish Yip continued and well-derserved success. What a great product, at a great price, thanks, Yip!
Dan |
Conversing with Yip several times I realized early on the man is MOST definitely interested in his customers and what his product can do.... Not just making a sale and simply forgetting about you.
Yes this is a minor purchase however I'm sure everyone here has a tale to tell concerning don't care sales staff including audio store owner's and manufactures.
Some people just don't understand what good customer relations can do for their sales and business.
Yip understands it well as does Thom Mackris of Galibier and Jeffery Canalano of High Water Sound, just to name a few.
Myself ,after a long 14 month search for a new record player and other components I was happy it finally came to an end.
On a different note Viper Z comments above that he found the initial set up of his cartridge using the VPI protractor to be correct compared to the Mint, for over hang anyway.
The supplied precision built jigs for my Graham Phantom arm are well above a VPI protractor.
The MintLp arc tractor is another step beyond the Phantom cartridge jig.
I can only guess at the time frame I spent lugging my table out to a suitable work area, re-leveling the table including preparation before using the Mint.
I can tell you it was more then 15 minutes.
Viper check your set up again....
|
This thread has been a godsend in a way, let's not get thin skinned folks, and make people afraid to post with thoughts of insinuated sarcasm. I didn't see any in my eyes, and that's the truth, and I agree with Yip, if you ran through your Alignment in 15 minutes, you might have done a inadequate job.
With all the nigerian scam artisty scares, one would probably think Yip, 1/2 way around the world would be somebody to be apprehensive of. In truth, Yip emailed me all along, asked quite a few questions, even did research by himself about whether my AQ PT arm was indeed set at 211mm, as he must've read threads-posts to the contrary, or other research, which led him to think that I was actually set at 210mm. I assured him I wasn't, and only then did he proceed. He showed an individual interest to make sure I would get what I was paying for, and would be a happy customer in the end, which I am.
This man evidently wants to keep a good name for himself, and provide us folks with a really exceptional Protractor, which will hopefully exceed all others.
I would like to see this thread remain alive, not die, and then poor Yip take the brunt of some dissention, or in-house fighting arguments.
I just mentioned in another thread on A-Karma, about how Cartridge alignment is either one of two things, it is either right, or it is wrong. Should you decide with a lesser means of aligning you Cartridge, one essentially is playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey. Mark |
Look!...The way I view it,if I've already spent the kind of money on a really good analog set-up,why would I not want to be absolutely certain it is performing to 100% of it's capability!
Nobody dislikes to play around for anymore set-up hours than me(as of late),since I've had to repack,and re-set quite a few components recently.How much fun does one think it is to "completely" break down a well set up table/arm/cartridge?Only to have to do it again....THREE TIMES...before certain gremlins get ironed out!
Not to mention three different power conditioners going Krakatoa,in very short order(since replaced by the ultra reliable Exact Power stuff)for no apparent reason,other than this hobby better "get with it",in reliability and customer support,or say good-bye to many new hobbyists in the furure...ESPECIALLY at these prices!!!
So,as I view this,even if I've got my Phantom "supposedly" spot on(from my normal approach)why not be absolutely certain?Another "two" hours certainly won't hurt,with the investment I've already made....Btw,I'm sweating,even as I post this!
A fellow I'm familiar with,who sells Phantoms,Dynavector arms,and used to sell the DaVinci arms claims he gets the Phantom perfectly set,by sight,and it is confirmed when he checks this against the WALLY guage(the one made for the Phantom.
I find it hard to believe him,unless his senses have been heightened by maybe getting bitten by a Vampire(the bite supposedly enhances ones senses a TON -:)
In fact,though I LOATHE the thought of going further,I'm beginning to feel that the major reason I was SO impressed with the LP replay on my friend's system,using the Air Tangent arm,was "definitely" due to the absolute perfect set-up,of the important parameters affecting noise/tracking/tracing a groove wall!Ya gotta get a pivot design as accurately as you can.So we can "rationalize" how it's as good as a great Linear Tracker.-:)
As an afterthought(sometimes not a bad thing,if one likes to "ponder")I remember,very well,my asking Sid Marks(the owner of the A/T arm at the time)to play a passage from the Sound Track Album,of the old Broadway Show "Rashamon"!!
This IS an amazing and supremely well recorded disc,containg some rare and highly dynamic percussive instruments.NOT necessarily loud sound effect stuff,but beautiful/articulate music......There is one particular passage that employs one of the musicians drag a small chain across a table top.
This very subtle,yet beautifully precise(you'd have to hear it...if you can "do" it)articulation of the metallic artifice contained in the groove walls,had always been impossible for me to "get" using my old 2.2,and previous early Triplanar design!It always sounded like groove noise,because it was such a "subtle" tinkley sound that had to be voiced into distinction.Very delicate,BUT very distinct in the way the A/T allowed this to develop.
I attempted to reproduce this,with other pivoting arms,in other systems,but no such luck!All the systems utilized SOTA components,and absolutely first rate cartridges!
I've come to realize it was the advantages obtained with the A/T arm that put that passage over the top....
Now that I'm in the process of re-setting up,I'm not taking any chances....If it's gotta be the Mint,so be it.A fraction of the cost of my arm/table/cartridge so...
though I HATE the thought of putting in any more time,other than enjoying collecting and listening to LP's,how am I going to let my pal's have had "one up" on me?-:)
My friend now has moved to a 12.7 inch arm.I think it's time for the "Rashamon Test"!
Best |
I have seen too many fastidious audiophiles, including Dan and Doug find themselves shocked at the level of sonic improvement an arc-style protractor effected in the sound of their systems.
You may be one of the few exceptions who can actually use a conventional protractor to get the same setup. I'd also place Frank Schroeder in this category - from the dozen or so setups he's done that I've witnessed.
For the rest of us humans, I put my money on Yip's protractor. Thanks to Palasr for pointing us toward Yip.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
No, not sarcasm. I'm just passing along what Yip told me when I said almost the same thing you did. But that doesn't mean you have to. If you're satisfied that you can't improve on what you have now, or just don't want to try, that is ok. It is entirely possible, though a real long shot, that your VPI tractor helped get your alignment that good. Even so, you will have a much better chance of getting the alignment very good again with the Mint tractor should something change. So don't be too disappointed with your new protractor. |
09-16-08: Dan_ed
Viper, as Yip would say, if you have only spent 15 minutes adjusting your alignment there is no way it is as good as it can be. Keep trying grasshopper. (OK, the grasshopper part was mine.) Is this a sarcasm? So I should take out my cartridge and spend another 2 hour to set it back to where it is right now? |
Viper, as Yip would say, if you have only spent 15 minutes adjusting your alignment there is no way it is as good as it can be. Keep trying grasshopper. (OK, the grasshopper part was mine.) |
Doug,Mark et al.....Absolutely NO complaints from me!!The credibility expressed has proven the logic of your arguments,and makes total sense.
Thanks.
|
Viper, I too found my Zenith Angle off.
I'm certainly no expert on Cartridges, but I take it that Zenith Angle is a very important adjustment.
Probably not so, with a Conical Stylus, but who's running one of these, unless maybe you're running a Denon DL-103R?
For these Micro Line Stylus', like my ZYX, I take it that this is very important to get right.
Don't feel like you got cheated, or wasted money, know that you were one of the very few "lucky" folks, who had at least thier overhang correct. You still found error, and this is a testamnent of how good this Portractor is (a compliment in diguise actually).
Pleae let us know what sonic differences you hear, if any. Mark |
I finally got the MintLP today! But I am a little disappointed, because I find that my initial setup using the VPI Jig agrees (spot-on) with the MintLP in terms of effective length. I only have to adjust the zenith angle very minorly. It took me less than 15 mintues to make sure everything is in place.
I haven't had the chance to 'listen' yet. |
Doug/All, I tried to explain the features of the Parallax Feature on the Mintlp Tractor, but I know my previous descriptions fell short. Probably anyone's will, until they see for themselves how neat this protractor is, and put it to use on thier rig.
I feel, just for the Zenith Alignment feature alone, this Protractor is worth the price of admission.
This was one parameter I felt I had "nailed down" exactly with everything I had in my arsenal, which in truth isn't much, the Geodisc, the TB Mirror, and an emailed paper tractor from Ken Willis. (not to detract from Ken's stuff, this was just a simple print up he emailed me free)
Picture looking down a 1/4 mile drag racing strip, with your Cantilever Looking like a large Log sitting in the middle of the road. And the road slims as it goes further away from you, just like looking down any two lane Road. You'll position your Stylus at the center of origin of this "Road", then as you look further back, one can so easily see how the Cantilever either skews to the right, or left.
And to add even more, about how Doug, and everybody else is talking about here, there's that reflected image of the Grid Lines, on this Second Surface Mirror, akin to the cheapie TB Mirror Protractor. (No, this isn't a Telescope Mirror, which would have a first surface Mirror, with refelctive coating on a polished-figured surface)
This is one very important key-feature to making this Protractor really outstanding, that just a slight shift with your head, or eye, you can easily see you are not properly aligned with the protractor, to see proper zenith with Yip's design. As I said before, this man is very clever, and I applaud his craftsmanship, and design.
The eye is a quite sensitive instrument. I know of men who build, and can test world class Optics with Laser Interferometer, but the eye can be in many cases, the final criterion, surpassing even the worlds most delicate instruments.
Smartly, I configured another Turntable (Denon) to the exact same S-P Distance, and I'll be checking this one as well. Since nobody wanted my like new Benz Ruby 3 in my classified here, out it comes to go on the Denon.
As they "really" say, you only live once. Don't believe the "James Bond Movies". Mark |
SirSpeedy,
I haven't seen/used the Phantom jig but I have used the one supplied with the 2.2.
Besides having no parallax arrangement for sighting accuracy (as noted by Stiltskin) the flip-over piece sat at a different angle depending on the height of the cartridge. This moved the cross-hairs forward or aft, which meant that overhang was only accurate when mounting a cartridge of the same exact height as whatever cartridge Graham designed the jig for.
If the Phantom jig is similar, I'm sure you'd find the Mint worth the investment.
|
Stiltskin,I am in full agreement.
Thanks |
Sirspeedy
Regarding the excellent Graham jigs for the Phantom arm.
I made a few comments about the jigs through out the Feikert Analogue Protractor thread starting at 06-30-08.
Briefly, ever so carefully using the Graham cartridge jig, end results were close but not spot on.
I would have never of known this if I did not use the Mint tractor to check set up against the Graham jig.
With final set up using the Graham jig I found your simply relying on line of sight which result in an error in set up, for me anyway.
Also I believe different cantilever lengths in the Graham jig could also slightly throw off final set up.
I understand there has been a slight up date to the series two Phantom cartridge jig, a target line of sort for a reference guide.
Sirspeedy, even with the series two Phantom jig, the money spent on the Mint tractor for piece of mind would be money well spent....Double checking and getting precise alignment of your cantilever and stylus will have enormous sonic benefits.
|
Speaking of typos. In my previous post, 0.5mm lines are actually 0.25mm lines. The line width comparison doesn't change.
|
Mark,actually I wasn't targeting you for an accurate Phantom "rap".I understand your input was a bit more general,but very good no doubt!It really got me thinking.
Instead I was kind of fishing for anyone "kinda" understanding where I was coming from,regarding the already very good,but maybe not the "best" way to "do" a Graham Phantom(or 2.2) set up,if one desires to go to the max.
Actually,to be more specific....do any Graham owners use a more specific method,other than the supplied set-up tools?
Specifically,if so,do you feel the Mint or Wally has resulted in an audible improvement over the original tools,already provided by Graham?
This would be of interest to myself,and I assume other happy Graham owners.
A small part of me is hoping for "no" replies(a first)since they would mean I'm "really" going to have to do more sweating and work.
Best |
Please forgive me folks for the numerous typo errors in my last post. I'm a great speller, but a poor typer, and usually never spell check until "after" I hit send.
One mistake I made, and I want to further elaborate, like others have advised, I felt no need to have to tape the Mintlp Protractor to Platter.
A tip for you VPI folks I've noted, do remove your little Rubber Spindle Washer, the Tractor will then lay perfectly flat on the Platter.
For the HW-19 folks, what I did, instead of wedging the underside of Platter to Plinth, and worrying about marring my shiny new Custom Black Acrylic Plinth, I wedged a small Cube of Magic Eraser in between Platter, and Motor Pulley Cover.
Just earlier "I had to pull out the heavy artillery", yanking out a brand new LP I've never yet played on my system, The Pure Pleasure Re-Issue of SRV-Texas Flood.
Wasn't looking so much to evaluate my earlier alignment efforts, but just enjoy a bit of music
Of course Texas Flood was previously cleaned with a 4-step AIVS process, and VPI 16.5 before Stylus ever touched the Vinyl. I must say this LP really sounded killerwith such lead guitar "bite", yet not at all harsh-thin, or stringent. I'm beginning to feel that my system is starting to leave the realm of what I call "mid-fi", with much better refinement. I now can say without reservation, that my ZYX Airy 3X sounds "airy"!
Thanks to Doug, Mehran, and the others who know about, and review such equipment here. My ZYX was a very wise purchase.
Sirspeedy, Please forgive me for being "Phantom Dumb", but I'm sure there's folks here who can be of better help than I with good advice. I'm sure as others with much better Tables-Arms-Cartridges than I, such as Dan-Ed, Doug, and many others will attest, the Mintlp Protractor will pleasantly enhance your analog rig. Mark |
Mark,that was a GREAT and apparently convincing post!!I might just have to "hate" you for it -:)
I think it may just have pushed me over the top regarding relying only on my Graham set-up tools(which are quite good,btw).I've been happy to rationalize this stock method as just fine,but am having my doubts if "it" cannot be bettered.
I say this because using my stock Graham alignment procedure(with my new Phantom II) means eyeballing the arm in a parallel position,in order to get the arm-tube's "alignment hole" in the proper position,for spindle to pivot distance.
The tube's alignment hole fits over the spindle attachment tool even if the tube's being perfectly parallel is slightly off(I'm talking about only a couple of degrees)but from what I am "learning" even "that" is going to be audible.
The bearing can shift a little,in order to accomodate this position,so one must be careful (to avoid any feeling of a shifting)and I've got it very well set-up this way.Also,the cartridge is not on the tube yet,and further alignment is done with the provided jig(once tightened up,this jig is very good).It still works quite well....Yet....
How can I know for sure if the tube is absolutely parallel,just by locking it into the provided spindle pivot alignment tool?A very slight shift in parallel would "still" be enough for the spindle pivot attachment to fit into the arm hole anyway,but though this is accurate,I doubt it can get us to where the Mint(or Wally) can.
I doubt "this" distance can be as precise as the "Mint",because the arm would have to be up quite high using the vta tower,in order to align the tube in a parallel fashion over the arm-tube's set up hole.How can one know if it is actually EXACT,and 100% parallel. The slightest angle shift(even if the spindle tool fits into the hole)will mean an error.Right?.....DRATS,I really don't care to play around anymore,but I can't rationalize laziness either,and I LOVE being lazy.I DO love Graham's uniquely considered method!!
For those using Graham's method,don't get me wrong!!It's a very easy way to get set up "accurately",but this IS AUDIOGON!!!...Home of the "Exactitudinals"!
If anyone can come up with any way to guarantee the spindle-jig/arm-hole alignment method on a Phantom can be made to be as accurate as utilizing something like the MINT,I might be persuaded to shell out a nice orig. pressing "Merc" or "Decca" as a reward.I'm THAT lazy,these days!! -:)
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