Ebm, my room is rather large about I heard Q3 works wonder
in smallish room, about 4.5x6.. M room as well. My local dealer mentioned one customer who has Q3 in a roughly 4x5m room or something a bit smaller even with no problem at all. Seems that Magico is quite forgiving as far as speaker placement and avoiding boomy bass is concerned and is not very difficult to at least get a decent sound from all sort of placements but certainly if you find the right spot, I have not heard anything better near its price point at least as far as my taste is concerned.
I heard that Q5 was measured closer to 83 dB tahn 86dB somewhere. Not sure about Q3's 90 dB. My amp seems to have a bit easier time driving Usher Be-20 (90dB/1 watt/8ohms)
louder than Q3 90 dB/1 watt/5ohms.
My friend with Q5 was asking if I might be interested in his Q5 as he is considering Q7. Unfortunately I think that in my rather large room (6.8x8.2m with large opening on one wall) my Lamm will not be able to drive Q5 adequately so I have to sadly decline!
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So it looks like the Q7 will be perfect in my medium size listening room driven by my 60 watt Jolida tube amp. What a relief... |
Elviukai,
sorry, we were posting at same time, my answer was to a different post from somebody who was stating that Magico never claimed a 10dB sensitivity improvement
On drivers sensitivity difference, I never measured any woofer myself, so I should trust you. I am just surprised that if you have a look at the official specs of different woofers from scanspeak, Monacor, B&C, PHL,Beyma, you would find woofers with 87dB as well as 97dB... Of course, they may not be used in same design.
I agree with your statement that sensitivity given by manufacturers should be taken with a grain of salt. Stated sensitivity by Magico has been always 3dB higher than reality (because of a 4Ohm vs 8 Ohm issue?) |
Wolf,
Let us know how this match works out.Thanks. |
Yawn....
http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?bShowUnpublished=&hArticle=1020&PageOfArticle=1 |
It will be interesting if Jeff Fritz does review the Q7. He is maybe the most outspoken (in a good way) of the reviewers that do the big speakers. I see where he likes Rockport and TAD along with Magico. Very good brands he likes. |
Jeff will do an extensive review of the Q7+Gryphon.
Since he had the Q3 in his room, I hope we will get a comparison of what the Q7 brings extra. |
From one of the Sounstage articles on CES2012.....
"The point here is that these new ultra-powerful magnets have allowed Magico to design and build drivers so efficient that the overall sensitivity of the Q7 is rated at 94dB, which is quite high for a sealed-box design."
Now, see, I really respect a lot of what Magico does. But this quote just frustrates me. What's left to respect about the writer when you look deeper into the truth?!
Magico obviously uses the 1W method of measuring their SPL for marketing reasons. (See Stereophile measurements of Q5 as a reference.) This means that their ACTUAL sensitivity is more like 91dB. This is still on the higher side of average. And still much higher than the Q5. But it just proves that the writer isn't remotely experienced enough to be making the claims he does.
For the record. It was almost 20 years ago (Long before Neodymium was being used) that Dunlavy was getting true 91dB sensitivity from cheap, off the shelf drivers, that used plain old and typical magnet materials. It was also a sealed box design.
Note: I'm not endorsing Dunlavy here. Just using them as an example in making a point.
This kind of BS just makes me roll my eyes and wonder why I even bother with "high end" stuff. |
Prdprez,
Not sure if intentionally or not, but i think you are confusing issues with issues here. A typical Dunleavy design had a symmetrical (BMTMB) layout. By that alone you get 6db boost in system efficiency, not drivers. BTW, In Magico propaganda, they mainly talk about redaction in Eddy Current and inductance, not increase in efficiency. |
Usermanual,
The vertical symmetrical array is not what gives the boost, per se. It's the doubling up of drivers. Depending on where the microphone is set-up when measuring, the location of those drivers is irrelevant.
Even then, it's only 3dB, not 6dB.
VSAs do achieve their optimal performance at the point where all the drivers integrate. For the Dunlavy, this was 10ft. Even so, you're only talking about -1dB differences when measuring significantly closer than this.
With regards to Magico, changing to stronger magnets (This is precisely what higher grades of neodymium does.) does not change eddy currents so much. It's the shape of the magnet and it's structure that effect this. Stronger magnets are useful in 1)overcoming heavier diaphragms, 2)Overcoming stiffer compliance of driver suspension. Thats it.
Even so, comparing the Q5 and the Q7, the only obvious difference is a slightly larger Midbass unit as well as a pair of larger woofers. Ie. the Q7 is moving more air than the Q5. This by itself does not equate to the significantly increased sensitivity. For a given driver, heavier (Ie. larger) diaphragm = lower sensitivity. Thus the need for stronger magnets.
Regardless, none of this has to do with my point. The point of my last entry was the relative ignorance of the press which seemed was assigning cause/effect relationships regarding the Q7 that were more or less not relevant.
I have not doubts that the Q7 is better than the Q5, in an overall sense. But, as I originally stated, I believe these differences are probably more relative to the associated room and it's bass coupling, not breakthroughs in driver technology and what not. The two speakers are still going to sound more similar in sound than not. |
Sell everything jump on Q7. |
Prdprez,
Nobody argued that there is not strong family sound between Q5 and Q7. I listened to both (to the Q7 only in poor CES conditions) and came up with the conclusions that Q7 sounds even more dynamic, with a broader imaging. Of course, also more extended in the bass,but this was not really an advantage in an hotel room with significant room resonances. |
Stereotaipei,
I don't need to be arguing with anyone in order to express an opinion do I?
I think all you just did was say what I've said in a different way.
Why is this an issue? |
I never meant to say there is any issue ;-) |
If I sell everything and get Q7s, it would be just me in a cardboard box under the freeway with my Q7s. Also, regarding the speaker sensitivity issue, there has to be somebody out there who plans to drive Q7s with a hyper expensive "custom made by a little man in the rural mountains of Japan who smelts the metal for the wire for his handwound transformers" tiny triode amps that put out 2 "glorious single ended class A tube" watts. Who is that Q7 owner? I know you're out there.... |
"there has to be somebody out there who plans to drive Q7s with a hyper expensive "custom made by a little man in the rural mountains of Japan who smelts the metal for the wire for his handwound transformers" tiny triode amps that put out 2 "glorious single ended class A tube" watts. "
That sounds cool! Gotta have that! |
Wolf, that's hilarious!
You can have a sign "will work for front end and amps!" |
Wow $165k should be WOW!! |
If you want to spend that kind of money on speakers, it would be crazy not to really look at it and learn about the Rockport Arrakis. It is an incredibly well engineered, complete loudspeaker. No black magic - just really solid engineering and design leads to perhaps the greatest dynamic speaker being built today. |
04-17-12: Soundcomponents
If you want to spend that kind of money on speakers, it would be crazy not to really look at it and learn about the Rockport Arrakis. ...
...and the other usual suspects, the WIlson Alexandria X-2 or XLF, the YG Anat III Signature, Focal Grand Utopia, EM, etc. $180,000 expenditure could easily justify a few plane rides and road trips for auditions. |
Heard YG at NYC show not impessed!! |
Heard the wooden horns in NYC in the HighWater Sound room. Great room, fun
people, super music. Very vintage and flavored sound. YG and Magico attempt
to be more neutral and transparent, which to me sounds more like acoustic
music. Others find it too analytical and sterile. Impressions indeed. |
I just heard Q7 at my local dealer. Mind you the speakers were just unpacked 2 days ago, still on rollers and have not yet been set up properly so I am sure they can do much more than what I heard. My first impression on vocal music was that the tonal balance, as expected were along the same line as Q5, Q3 but bigger, more detail. I thought big deal, at more than three times the price of my Q3, no thanks. However, I ran Q7 through big symphonic pieces, vocal music, pop etc and Q7 became rather addictive in its effortlessness. There was nothing forced, no strain, music was just produced naturally, nothing mechanical at all. The room I heard was about 5x8m. Q7 was driven by Soulution big monoblocks/pre, TW Acoustic/Reed/Miyajima and Rega top CD player. I'll wait a week or so then I will give it another listen. Luckily, it is way out of my budget so I don't have to think much about it. For what it's worth, Q7 impressed me a lot more than the big YG that I heard on 2 separate occasions. While it is not quite as exciting and attention grabbing as when I heard the big Scaena (the one with 2 double subwoofer, around $120,000 pricetag, I think), Q7 really grows on me very quickly and it would be the speakers I would own if bank account and the floor in my apartment would accommodate! |
+1. Heard them in Munich at Life-Like. I stayed for 3 hours. It was hard to leave, so magical the experience was... After 2 days at the main show, it was a real treat. |
Very OVER RATED and OVER PRICED... I heard so many Sonus Faber speakers trash the Magico at less cost. |
Everybody must jump on Q7 NOW to keep Wolf in business. |
Magico sleakers are wonderful its personnel taste Sonus Faber are good as well. |
People who like Sonus Faber sound is unlikely to like Magico as they have very different sound and there is nothing wrong with that. Personally, I would take Q7 over Aida any day (if I have the money and yes, I heard both and also the limited edition the Sonus Faber and I would take Q7 over that as well). For what it's worth, another friend had extended audition of Q3 and Sonus Faber Amati Futura (I think, in the US it is a bit cheaper than Q3 but over here they are pretty much the same price) in his home and went with Q3. |
"Wow $165k should be WOW!!"
You would think! |
Magico: Ferrari. Sonus Faber: Rolls Royce. Do you want to feel the road or travel in comfort? Both can be excellent. Both can be expensive. |
For around $45k, the Sonus Faber Strads simply TRASH the $88k Magico speakers that I heard IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE. If you are comparing a sub $50k speaker, there is no comparison between SF and Magico. Magico are dry sounding, non-involving and way over priced. |
Good analogy Peterayer. Love them both and could live with either!
Slicing in-between, sport cruisers the likes of Bentley or Aston could be great options too--or even Bugatti if money no object. But until such time, a Hyundai will suffice getting me to places.. ;p |
He we go again. We have the audiophiles who like Magico and the music lovers who listen to live music and like the Fabers. I have heard Magico's many times and yes they are an audiophile speaker. Do they sound like live music which is warm and natural hell no. |
Jwm,
Many would agree with your impression. Two very different approaches.I`ll always prefer musical realism rather than 'audiophile' genre accuracy(artificial). |
Magico Mini 2 was reference standard musical when I heard them play an orchestral string recording off VAC amp, VTL pre-amp, DCS source and high end Nordost wires. Very detailed smooth and musical all at once.
Performance with other kinds of music with large macrodynamic swings was still very good a speaker that size but not reference standard.
Of course the Magico's did not do this all by themselves. The stuff feeding them upstream were undoubtedly a big part of the "magic". OTher very good speakers might have done similarly well and perhaps even better in some regards like macrodynamics. Microdynamics/transients were benchmark standard though so I know they can do it. |
Audiofreak and Jwm, I know what you are saying, and I've heard Magicos sound analytical and fatiguing and not like music. If you consider that "audiophile", that's fine. However, I've also heard them sound just as Mapman describes. Very "Musical" with a capital M, as in sounds like music that I could listen to all day long. I've also heard SF speakers sound wonderful.
I think it has a lot to do with matching the equipment and the room and proper set up. No speaker is perfect and most sound different depending on how they are set up. |
I heard larger Magico also once at a show for comparison in a YG demo. I heard nothing that would warrant describing them as not musical. This was on a different system with SS amp I believe. The sound was much different than the Minis with the good tube gear. Both were very good but different. I suspect in general what is upstream will make a huge difference. Hard to categorize what good speakers sound like accurately without hearing them in multiple different scenarios. Speakers make no sound by themselves. |
IMO the best sounding Magicos were the little V2s. The M5s were also good, but very expensive. Somehow the new Q3/Q5 sound too analytical and too sterile for my taste. |
Whow lighten up boys.MAGICO MINI 2 is still a wonderful speaker more musical than Q1 but thats my take.There are many wonderful speakers out there Yg does not do it for me. |
Happened that my speaker right after Strads was the Mini2..
In general, if one prefers to hear more of speakers--Strads (beautiful, musical).
If one wants to hear more of electronics/recordings--Mini2 (honest, transparent).
Guess I eventually grew tired of that cloaking sameness after two plus years living with Strads. The Minis as I recalled, managed to bring more surprises to the table. Imo, both could be just as musically rewarding when dialed-in right--'balancing' is key. |
Apples to apples (spending a given amount of $$$ and the same electronics), I do not understand how anyone could choose any Magico over SF. Maybe you guys need some Q-Tips?
You could put a very nice sounding system together for what just the Magico monitors cost. Makes no sense |
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If you cant afford MAGICO thats ok Dude. |
I don't know if Magicos are better of SF. I don't
know if they are more or less musical than other
speakers. All I know is that my Q5 are playing right
now and they are fantastic.
Greetings from Switzerland. Sergio |
Elberoth2,
I bet you never heard the Q3/5 with a Nagra 845 or, even better (Looks like) an Ongaku?? Is that what it took making your Wilson's musical? You are showing a "quite nice" room response were your FR is 30db down at 10K?!! With these kind of preferences, you should refer making any judgments on anything you have not heard in your own room. |
Assuming I could afford them (bad assumption currently with two kids still to go to college) before I would make a final judgement on their value/performance, I would have to hear them on some different systems.
I think even my modest Minimus 7s would have sounded fantastic (limited bass extension assumed of course) on the rigs I have heard the Magicos on. |
Audiofreak32 I am just used to live music. I go to jazz venues at least once a month and the symphony and Magico's aren't even close. |
I go to Carnegie call 15 or more times a year no stereo can do this i agree. |
Wow Jwm, you are so lucky. I (and I am sure all Magico fans) have never heard live music before.
Elberoth2,
I bet you never heard the Q3/5 with a Nagra 845 or, even better (Looks like) an Ongaku?? Try putting a big SS amp on your speakers, see how much you like them. You are showing a "quite nice" room response with a FR 30db down at 10K?!! With these kind of preferences, you should refer making any judgments on anything you have not heard in your own room. |
Au contraire, mon frère. Maestro David Robertson has asked to use my system for the May 20th performance at Carnegie Hall because he feels it sounds much more lifelike than the MET orchestra. I will be playing the following pieces....
MOZART Adagio in E Major, K. 261
MENDELSSOHN Violin Concerto
SCHOENBERG Violin Concerto, Op. 36
and as a special treat, I will play the entire Mothers Of Invention LP "Weasels Ripped My Flesh". It should be a very special evening. |
