Magico Q7 . . . wow

"It is particularly true with a brand like Magico." I agree. They are so transparent and high in resolution, that one hears what the components are contributing up stream and what the room does. They add little coloration to mask the sound. They also need amplification with lots of good, clean power or they will not perform to their potential.

"component complimentarity and system set up are crucial to getting good sound."

It is particularly true, with a brand like Magico.

Hifi, I just read your latest post and then reread your earlier posts bashing Magico. They read like they are from two different people. I'm glad you had such a good recent experience with the Q7 and congratulate you on your willingness to give Magico another listen. I agree that component complimentarity and system set up are crucial to getting good sound.

Wow, what a change of heart... Thank you for sharing, maniac. I wish more people will take the time and open their mind to experience worthy products. I believe audiophiles, me included, are their own worst enemies; making conclusions based mainly on their comfort with the "familiar". It stops innovation, create stagnation and leads to a demise, i.e. our industry status.

I'm a Believer now; I have seen the light. I finally had a chance to listen to the Magico Q7's in a real world, home system and I can say I heard the magic. Dartzeel NHB 450M amps; Dartzeel 18 NS Pre amp with internal phono; Wave Kinetics NVS TT w/Talea tone arm and Ortofon A90 cartridge; mostly Tara labs cabling and all I can say is it was the best sound I have ever heard, bar none! What's even more amazing is the speaker isn't even fully broken in! I will return in a month and listen again. Sorry for all my negative comments above; but this proves how important system set up and electronics is for the best sound to flow with this speaker. I was amazed at the inner detail, musicality, dynamics and sheer effortless sound. Anne-Sophie Mutter's "Carmen Fantasie" on DG Vinyl sounded so real I wanted to cry! This is an all digital recordinng but the LP was anything but! The Gladiator soundtrack LP played loud never hinted at break up or smearing; simply stunning presentation. I won't be selling my Evolution Acoustics anytime soon, but do now appreciate the quality and what this speaker is capable of reproducing.

I myself look forward to hearing the Q7. I don't understand why some consider the price of a speaker as a factor in evaluating the sound of a speaker. Seems to me that many people (I stress many not all) don't like any Magico because of the price. I understand the Q7 is extremely costly! but what counts to me is how it sounds.

I acknowledge that I might get 90% of the Q7 from, say, the Maxx 3 or a Focal model, but to me the question of what one would pay for that 10% is seperate from whether the 10% exists. (Admittedly this is a bit of an over simplification, and i hope my point is clear. Also, I use the Maxx 3 and Focal and "10%" just as an example). It seems to me that the price of the assumed 10% difference is each person's own decision, but that doesn't change the 10% assumed difference. If one were asked which car is better, a Ferrari California or a VW, I would say the Ferarri (again an admitted over simplification).

I am a Q3 owner and enjoy the speakers greatly, but I found they needed a sub (I'm using a Rel Studio III) for some additional bass weight. The Q3 has fast and detailed bass, but I found it a bit too lean on the bottom on its own (same issue with the Q5 to my ear) in my system (VTL/Scarlatti/Valhalla). I also acknowledge the criticism that Magicos can tilt to the analytical with some material.

In response to the earrlier post asking for a recommendation of a speaker comptetitive with the Q3 but less expensive, my unequivocal recommendation would be the Martin Logan Summit X. It is a superb speaker and an absolutely fantastic value. It actually bests the Q3 in some areas. Also, I think even this ML can benefit from a sub.

Wslam,
No speaker changes in the near future planned. I still love the Mini II. I just completed a major turntable/arm/cartridge upgrade. No itches here. I would love to hear the Q7 though. And the Q1 which I'm sure is better than the Mini. I just don't know if I can justify the cost to upgrade. I like the Mini look better, but I understand why Magico moved to all-aluminum.

Nilthepill, moving on =)
Peterayer, upgrading soon?
Getting itchy...

Wslam, Good to read. I completely agree with your comment about "bloom". The speakers should get out of the way. In fact, I think the whole system should get out of the way.

Those who want a bad recording to sound good will have to accept some coloration from the system when they listen to good recordings. I prefer to hear as much of the recording as possible.

I just ordered the Magico S5 speakers. Was going to upgrade from Maggie 3.7 to 20.7 -- love the speed and wall of sound, but struggle with moving up to an even bigger 20.7 footprint to get more weight/low end extension -- so giving Magico a go in system. Neutral, fast, uncolored and with accurate bass (sealed enclosure). Better imaging than Maggies and hoping for better dynamics in my room. Love the 3.7s but hey part of the fun of the journey is trying new gear while enjoying the music.

Good points Wslam.

Corollary is that the brass instruments would have 'double the Metal' in Q7 ;-)

That is why I said I am not looking for any debates as nothing is perfect.

Carry on!

Nil,

I think you are right that subjectively there is probably no single SOTA sound.

Audiophile that are tuned into this kind of thing do not all like the same kind of sound obviously so preferences would vary with SOTA type systems as well as any others I suppose.

Would a tube/vinyl and a SS/digital guy ever agree on the best sound? I don't know the answer, but it is surely not a lock.

IF one assesses a system from more of a objective technology/engineering perspective, it is probably easier to identify SOTA in a more objective manner. I would always expect good sound to result that is SOTA in at least some regards if not the absolute bomb in all ways for all.

Hi Peterayer,
Of course not! I still love Magico VERY much. I admire the way they do things...
And yes, I have listened to all the Q models. The day I went to listen to the Q7, I really went to listen to the Q1, which sounded very fine indeed. But as the Q7 were 'right there', I had to ask the sales to turn them on, and what a mistake. They made me 'forget' that I went for the Q1. haha...
The Q7 were driven by a Balabo amp. DAC was BADA Alpha2, Preamp was Balabo. CD player was Spectral. I only had 30 mins that day, but it was a very memorable 30 mins.

I know Nilthepill say he doesn't express his opinion often, but the comment that he is "highly skeptical that these speakers can 'fully' produce life like woody bloom".

To me that is just a plain wrong statement. Are you saying that the wood should 'sing along' to produce 'bloom'?

Whatever bloom there is, it should have been recorded. And the drivers should faithfully reproduce. If the 'wood' starts to sing along, you will get 'double the bloom'. It just doesn't make sense. I can see why one would associate wood with 'bloom' (all the wooden instruments), but don't forget, there's also brass instruments. So wood speakers can never reproduce brass instruments faithfully?

In short, speakers should just disappear and get out of the way, and only an inert silent cabinet can to that!

Just auditioned Q7's about a week ago at my dealer's place. About six months ago in the same system I also had audition Q5s. While the bass was noticeably more in Q7, both sounded somewhat similar. Both still sounded mechanical and electronic- far from SOTA IMO, but like many other systems claimed to be 'SOTA' category. Then again SOTA definition in audio is different for different audiophiles= two main contingents being true to recording and other being true to non amplified acoustic instruments in live space (close to life-like). I am in the lifelike camp.

With that said I will be the first one to say speakers are what they are being driven by- electronic, cabling, power and most important of all- music and quality of recordings. In this system although at both instances, the electronics (solid state) and cabling was same, once when we switched to tubed mono blocks in Q5 case, the performance of Q5 did show some promise, if system is made well balanced. And I am sure same would be true for Q7. ( We didn't try tubed mono blocks due to time constraints).

But, overall coming from Aircraft/Space Engineering background and having dealt with Aluminum material all my life, I am highly skeptical that these speakers can 'fully' produce life like woody bloom. Not an entirely impossible concept but a very balancing and daunting task. Just imagine a acoustic guitar with Al curved body!. I usually stay away from expressing my opinions (of any kind) on this forum, having heard both in controlled well designed listening room, and with $$$$$$ electronics I thought it is a good idea for me to post my thoughts.

Just my 2 cents, not looking for any debates.

Wslam,
That's an interesting report. I thought you had given up on Magico :^) Have you heard any of the other Q's, or is Q7 the first Magico you've heard since your old Minis? I really like the Q3 and would love to get the chance to hear the Q7. What amps were driving the Q7?

Can any other systems at a similar price point arguably compete with this one?

I can't even fathom how I would tell which of two SOTA systems sounded better. They should all sound like being there I would think? Maybe there would be enough differences to compare and contrast. But I would expect six of one, half dozen of another at that point. I guess aesthetics, features, fit into my room/home, etc. would all come into play .

If I were a rich man......

Listened to the Q7 two days ago.
To my ears, without a doubt, the finest dynamic speakers I have ever listened to. Despite the sheer brute force they are capable of delivering, they are also the most refined speakers I have come across. Simply SOTA.

Front baffle also looks curved and colored. If so, it would be much nicer than the rather conventional looking baffle/driver front of the S5. I think Suteetat may be right that it is a smaller S class two/three way to replace the last wood Magico V2 speaker.

I think this is going to be a smaller S series speakers that will replace V2 if I am not mistaken... S3 or S2, I guess.

Looks like another S model. These guys are on their way to having two complete lines of speakers. Looks like their is some trickle down effect.

have a peek, not a Peak, at this:
http://www.magico.net/Galleries/Magico_news/Magico_news_01.php
Just tweeted

Love MAGICO MINI 2s no Peaks this week.

EBM and I are selling our MIMI II now. Where do we buy Peaks?

Peak Consult wonderful getting 2 pairs!!

Please give a listen to Peak Consult Dragon Momentum and then you'll clearly understand what's REALLY mean magical sound.

At least by one definition, all stereo equipments would be luxury good since none of them would be considered neccessity good. Magico just happened to be more luxurious than many others, I suppose :)
As far as status symbol, hmmm... most of my colleagues would say Magico what? (insert Wilson, Avalon, Rockport, Totem, Sonus, Quad whatever you like, instead of Magico, you will pretty much the same effect here!)

Back to Q7, still have not returned to the local dealer to listen to it some more. I am just too afraid I might like it too much although the local dealer is setting up a new Bergmann turntable that I would love to hear.

Here's some info on Luxury Goods. Magicos qualify I would say. CLearly, so do "luxury cars".

It is what it is. Value is in the eye of the consumer.

I love my Toyota Avalon!

MOVE ON DUDES!!

I don't want to own any car for 10 years. I lease a new car every 2 to 3 years. I could care less how problematic a car may be in 10 years - who keeps a car 10 years?

I don't even keep audio products 10 years. I can't imagine keeping amps, speakers, digital, etc. for more than 3 or 4 years. Time and technology march on.

If your friend is buying BMW's or any car that is 10 years old, he probably needs to get a second job so he can afford something newer!

And BTW, I love my Jag - it has been flawless. Won't have it but about 11 more months. Porsche is next.

Jerk its a MAGICO THREAD.GET A LIFE!!

BMW is the new joke at the Honda and Toyota dealers. I have a very good friend that has owned 4 different BMWs and got so tired of them being at the dealer for reapirs he finally bought a new Toyota and never looked back.

Ever heard of Edmunds and KKB? Initial quality, durability and resale.... check it out. You will find names like Lexus, Honda and Toyota. Ummmm, Jauguar? Wow, one of the WORST in the list.

If you lease every 30 or 36 months, you cannot speak on the reliability of a car. Try owning a BMW for 10 years, put 120k miles on it, then lets discuss its repair record vs. a Lexus for example.

I saw that too, Mapman. The Avantgarde Trio is one horn system I've always wanted to hear, but I haven't had the chance. Their value has really dropped, but I think it is because of a lack of US support and that they really are a niche product. I've heard they really need a large room to integrate. Would really love to hear a pair.

Those Minis are overpriced, IMO. $15-18K is about right for a US pair in good condition. And for that price, they are hard to beat, also IMO. I don't care what Freak thinks about Magico. Value is a personal thing. There is little debate that the Mini is one of the best two-way speakers out there.

Audiofreak you should get everything free because your so cool HO HO!!

Audio freak, oops you just lost some credibility when you said BMWs are in the shop half the time. I've owned two of them (currently lease a Jag, it's been great too) and neither of them was ever in the shop one day except for annual scheduled maintenance which was free.

I am sure Magico speakers are great, as are Sonus, but trying to win this speaker argument by trashing BMW as problematic is simply ridiculous.

A good thing I don't have BMW. God forbid I should become an audio yuppie!

I noticed recently that a used pair of magico minis were going here for the same price as a pair of avantgarde trios. Just found that interesting.

That was rather funny.

Actually, at less than half the price, they DO give the Magico a run for the money.

You say "It's not even close"... really? The price of the Q3 (or any Magico for that matter) is NOWHERE NEAR justified - it is ridulous actually. And when you are discussing one speaker that cost 3X the other, you are not comparing apples to apples.... you are comparing apples to washing machines.

It is not an issue of "affording them" either, if I had $5m in the bank I would never buy them, because they do not sound good and I do not feel the need to tell all my friends and neighbors that "I have a pair of speakers that cost $20k.

I always loved hearing the stories from my audio dealer when hot shot loaded yuppies would come in, drive up in their BMWs (that were in the shop half the time) and just say "Give me the best of whatever you have... I do not care how much it is, I do not need to listen to it". They just wanted to be able to tell everyone that they have a pair of speakers that cost $20k or $40k, etc.

When my audio buddy and I sat and listened to the Sonus Faber Strads and then the Magico towers at roughly half the price, it was not even close, really. It was sad actually, to think that Magico was asking $88k for this speaker that just had its ass handed to it for about half the price.

Audiofreak, you are arguing in circle here. You kept saying that Magico is way over price. So I mentioned some speakers from company that you like such as Wilson Benesch, Dynaudio which are roughly half the price of my Q3. If Q3 is truely overprice, I would expect both of these speakers to be competitive or at least give Q3 a good run for the money. Sorry, they are not even close. They are certainly excellent at their price point but in no way are they a $40,000 speaker killer! The performance of Q3 certainly justified the difference in price here.
Sonus that I mentioned cost a few thousands less than Q3 and certainly anybody who consider Q3 should take a listen to Sonus as well. So yes, I compare apple to apple as well as trying to prove your ridiculous claim as well.

Believe it or not, sometimes people with money also have ears, have brain and can actually make a logical and reasonable choice just as well as people with less money.
Again, if you prefer those speakers, that's fine but no need for a snide comment for people who can afford and choose whatever they like that are out of your range.

Magico is wonderful people that cant afford them love to downgrade them DUDE!!!!!!!Whats you system,must be GREAT.

Suteetat...

Maybe it sounds better (to some), but AGAIN, my point is that is cost a ton more. Let's compare apples to apples.

EBM, you are the bomb! Your comments are both insightful and humorous. Yes, buy Magico now!

You are a rats ass DUDE!!

I think that Q7 have this midrange/tweeter arrangement mainly
because of the height of the speakers. With this arrangement, the tweeter would be much closer to ear level at sitting position. I would need to be almost standing up straight to listen to Q7 unless Magico tilt down the tweeter axis quite a bit and may be that would cause more problem than their current arrangement?

I just looked up Suteetat system with the Q3 and it got me thinking about the Q7. I wonder if there will be second versions of the Q3 and Q5 with one woofer above the tweeter as in the new Q7. Perhaps the technological advances of the newest Q7 flagship will trickle down to the Q5 and Q3 and Magico will decide to reorient the drivers.

No, mine is the best in the world because I say it is. I don't give a rat's ass what ya'll think !!!!! :)

Sonus, Wilson Benesch, Dynaudio are all very nice speakers.
Haven't heard all of their speakers, but I heard ACT, C4, Amati Futura. I would not trade my Q3 for any of those. C1 I heard briefly and I am quite familiar with Q1 sound, again, no contest. Some people may like C1 better and that's fine but if money is no issue, I don't think it is a financial blunder to go for Q1.
Who is going to decide if the improvement by a certain speaker over another comes with a $10,000-20,000 extra in price tag is worthwhile? That's very personal decision.
Audiofreak, you made your preference's very clear, that's fine, let's move on. There is not need to keep hammering your bias into everyone's brain until they are willing to submit out of pure boredom so that you would go away.

Personally, one speakers that I would consider over Q1 at similar cost would be Nola Metro Grand Reference but I don't think that it is quite a Q3 killer just yet. However, it probably would be better to compare Metro Grand to S5 which I have not heard yet.
and if I have money, I may consider Concert Grand Reference instead of Q7 just because given time, most likely Q7 would go through the floor of my apartment into my downstair neighbor's apartment.

No, yours must be better because it cost more, right?

Nobody pays list price Dude!!I love to buy stuff and sell it for 50% off.Audiofreak i would love to hear your system it must be the best on the planet.(HO! HO!)

Thanks Audiofreak. Those are interesting choices. Have you heard the Q1? I'm just curious.