@grannyring You will need to run a Roon Core into the X1. |
Lumin is using output transformers as part of their analog stage which adds some color but otherwise retains the detail provided by the ESS DAC chips. @nekoaudio Love transformer coupled output stages, especially in balanced outputs. :) Yumm. TBC: I've never heard or seen a Lumin, just saying I love the idea. Best, E |
@grannyring
Says "roon ready" so that to me indicates it is a streamer only.
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Does the X1 run Roon core or do a need another computer for this! Hope not at this price?! |
We are a major Lumin dealer and have had extensive experience with DCS in the past, in fact Wilgolf is one of our clients.
The battle between DCS and Lumin can be summed up with DCS tends to favor resolution over musicality, not saying the DCS is harsh, but there is a distinctly clean uncolored but not harsh presentation to the DCS while the Lumin tends to be a very dimensional, and very engaging sound also with excellent resolution.
We had a client many years ago trade in a DCS Rossini for a Lumin A1 which he found to offer a more relaxed presentation while still offering much of the clarity of the DCS.
Lumin's products are also a technological tour de force, Lumin is a division of Pixel magic a large Taiwanese manufacturer of broadcast video products. There engineering dept has the resources of a very large high end company.
Spinaker the Lumin X1 also uses a FPGA as well, the reality is a FPGA really doesn't mean much, most of these companies use mature filtering techniques and don't need to come up with magic software upgrades every few months, the advantage of an FPGA is that you can add and improve features easily through firmware,
The Lundhal transformers are really magical and do help the X1 with its liquid sounding midrange.
Very few people will walk away from the X1 to hear one is to fall in love with one.
The X1 has a huge three dimensional sound stage, good top and bottom extension, excellent resolution and air, a warm full bodied midrange and a great feature set, MQA, Roon endpoint, a great app, easy software upgrades, optical isolation
We sell some of the world's best digital products from Aqua, Light Harmonic, T+A, Naim, Innous, and a few others.
The summation is that the X1 can only be bettered by spending a lot more money,
Tomic the X1 is a far better deal than the Naim and in most ways far outperforms the Naim for way less.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Lumin dealers |
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I have to say the upgradability of the dcs ring dac firmware would also be a factor. This provides for a 7-8 year free upgrade path which is nice considering the buy in price. |
The reviews of the Bartok and my experience would lead me to suggest you hear them. You’d be hard pressed to find a bad word written about the dCS. |
Thanks, that is helpful (and surprising!). |
The best way I could describe the difference would be that the Lumin’s sounded more real and natural. Guitars, pianos, voices, etc... sounded more like they do in real life. As a result everything sounds less like a recording. I went in expecting the Bartok to be clearly superior, and I was also prejudiced against Sabre chip based DACs. The Bartok has a much better feature set, and will undoubtedly hold its value better, the Lumin’s just sounded better. |
I can only speak to the Lumin. I have owned the D1, A1and now the X1. I ended up selling my Emm Lab Dac after getting the X1. I had a Raven Integrated Reflection MK2 amp and SF Amati Tradition Homage speakers. People who came to my house were amazed at the quality of my sound. My whole music library is digital and I also used Tidal. The ease and simplicity of the Lumin ap is what initially sold me on Lumin. Each iteration I went to improved the sound dramatically.
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Interesting about the Dave. I have the Hugo 2 (along with the mentioned Mytek Manhattan II, dCS Rossini, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, and a Violectric DAC). To me, the dCS is by far the most natural. The Mytek overemphasis on highs becomes tiring. That said, I do find the Chord Hugo to really lack in resolution. It’s a nice, pleasant sound, but lacks the finesse of the dCS or Manhattan. (The Brooklyn being my least favorite, but still excellent). |
Interesting comments. Can you please expand on the differences between the X1 and Bartok and why you preferred the X1.
I have an Ayre QX5 and a Mytek Manhattan II, both using the latest ESS chips, which I find extremely good. I prefer both of these to the Chord DAVE/Blu 2 which I owned. I've also been considering the Bartok, but wondering whether it is a real upgrade.
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Also, don’t agree that the X1 isn’t a good value because it runs a Sabre chip. There are DACs based on the 1704 chip which cost a few hundred dollars, while the Trinity DAC uses the same chip and costs $60,000. So much more to it than that. |
I’ve heard the X1 and Bartok in the same system, and they definitely have different sound characters. I preferred the X1 by a considerable margin, in fact I thought the Lumin T2 bested the Bartok (at less than 1/3 of the price). The Bartok is no slouch though, and includes digital inputs and the optional head amp neither of which are available on the Lumins.
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Right, I think I missed a word in there. The dCS approach really takes the edge off, but to be clear, both sound wonderful. That said, I can't think why I'd want to spend 10k on an ESS-based DAC when there are so many wonderful options, like the Mytek, at half the price. |
@mayoradamwest I think you meant to say the dCS approach does not have the hint of brittleness that you heard with the Mytek? |
Listening to the Rossini right now, which has similar character to the Bartok. I came from a Mytek Manhattan II which is based on the ESS Pro. All I can say is it’s not even close between those two. The dCS has this smooth, natural presentation with incredible detail and separation. I loved the sound of the Mytek but it always had this hint of brittleness that I believe the dCS ring DAC and upsampling provide. |
@david_ten well, Lumin is using output transformers as part of their analog stage which adds some color but otherwise retains the detail provided by the ESS DAC chips.
To a large degree the goal and result is similar to that of the DAC I designed, which also uses output transformers combined with PCM1794A DAC chips.
dCS is not aiming for the same thing with their products, although with multiple filter settings you can influence the sound. |
@nekoaudio How are they different? Thanks. |
I carry Lumin and have the X1 here, and was just at a client's place last week who has a dCS Vivaldi stack. I'd say the sound character goals of Lumin and dCS are probably best considered as different, so you'd need to hear them to decide which direction best matches what you're looking for. |
same conundrum for me, except a level up and including the NAIM 555.....
right now, DCS is winning |
One has a Fiber Optic input. |
