LSA Voyager GAN Amplifier
That’s a real beauty, (it’s a good laugh so long as your not serious) atmasphere: I’ve not seen anyone detracting from Krell on this thread.Pays to look a little harder, or you only see what you want to see " Larger quantity of bass is always associated with lower quality and accuracy, as shown by the Krell." |
FYI.....the LSA Voyager and the Peachtree GaN 400 use the same amp boards and power supply. The only thing different is the case, jacks and wires. They will sound slightly different, as everything makes a difference.....but basically.....when someone is talking about the sound of one......they are talking about the sound of both. We shall soon see whether or not the new $3000 Wryed for Sound 400 W GaN amp is also using these modules or have developed their own. |
Darko review of the peachtree now streaming... https://darko.audio/2021/08/a-short-film-about-the-peachtree-gan400/ |
All amps....solid state or tube do bass differently (my direct experience). Because it is not one thing that EVER does anything. Even the jacks and wiring and vibration control, etc. etc. effect the bass response. Change the fuse in a Krell....you will get different bass response. Most transistor amps are voltage sources.....they all sound different. Certainly, Krell has a reputation for "big" bass. Is it perfect? Is is the best ever? Nah....no such thing. This game in infinite.....everything makes a difference. I could mod a Krell and get better bass, midrange and highs.....it never ends... |
history shows and I also say , nothing touches big Krell amps for bass.This statement is false. If the amp is behaving as a voltage source then its bass won't be any different from any other amplifier which is also able to act as a voltage source. Add to that the fact that almost any solid state amp has had enough feedback to play bass properly in the last 40 years, which is why solid state has a good reputation for making bass. 'Nothing touching it' suggests that the amp has a coloration- for example **too much** bass, which seems really unlikely. So this one seems a furphy. |
Larger quantity of bass is always associated with lower quality andOnly one thing to say about that, and it’s double phooey!! I would say that the KRELL would be preferred by the majority of people.True, nothing wrong with Krell bass, it’s most controlled, tight and dynamic bass of nearly any other amp I’ve heard. (BJT (bipolar) done right, can’t beat it) And it’s does hard loads better than the AHB2 because it does far more current into them than it can, and bridging the AHB2 into mono won’t get it up there with a Krell, if anything it’ll be worse just louder (more watts but less stable) than the stereo into low impedances. Cheers George |
@viber I do not disagree on anything you wrote. However, I would say that the KRELL would be preferred by the majority of people. The AHB2 is disliked by people that like some warmth (I like both). I sold my 3rd AHB2 to a guy who only kept it for 2 days. He hated it. While I was sorry I sold it that sale did lead to the Voyager. |
@tweak1 I was using Audience Au24 SE balanced XLR + Wywire Balanced XLR from my sources to my CODA and the 15 foot Benchmark XLR to my CODA #8 amp. I tried this setup with the CODA #8, Voyager, and AHB2. The CODA #8 had the most bass followed by the Voyager. The AHB2 was further behind. I now run Audience Au24 SE RCA from my DACs to the CODA 07x to see if it can be quieter (it is not). However, the bass sounded the same as the XLR with the CODA #8 and Voyager. The KRELL K-300i seems to have the most bass of all the amps I have in the house. |
@ricevs Patience? I’ve waited 2 years from when I was initially told I would have the Voyager. Of course it was out of my control, but the wait was well worth it. Confucius say The reward for patience is PATIENCE YYZ Are you using XLR or RCA cables? My system is 100% true balanced. I don’t notice any less bass, but surely cleaner, faster bass. Now, having said that, improving on internal wiring can bring a touch more bass authority/weight. Be very interesting to get a report after Ric does his thing Last night I played my absolute worst torture test cd Wilson Philips Greatest Hits, and for the first time I was able to listen without pain, but the music IMHO SUCKS |
Taking me way longer to get my stereo back up an running (no speakers for over one year now...been using headphones). Just now finished wiring the speakers and I will be firing up the stereo tomorrow some time. The amp starting the game will be my modded VTV Purifi amp (same level of mod that was reviewed by 10audio). I will do a couple of mods to the Purifi and then change to the Voyager......this should be fun. "Patience Grasshopper" What do they say about things taking way longer than expected?.......At least 3 times longer.....at least. I thought I would have the stereo fired up last Thursday.......it does feel way more together in here.....had to clean a ton of stuff up. It is all good! |
@arafiq I was reading some of the posts I made here and it seems like I am going back and forth on the DSP that I am using. I was saying earlier that the DSP was needed with the CODA and not so much with the Voyager. Well to test this out I have been playing music that I consider my most fatiguing without the DSP enabled. I am using the CODA 07x and CODA #8. At this point I think the way my room is re-configured I can live WITHOUT the DSP on the Thiel’s because I an not getting fatigued. This also means the Voyager can be DSP less also because it has a little less bass power. One more thing I can do is re-measure my room with the microphone and specialty software to get new DSP files generated for my new configuration. On the RAAL SR1a headphones I have a feeling the subtle DSP that I was using is beneficial. I had a 3-4 hours listening session last night without DSP and had some fatigue issues with the bass heavy KRELL. When I added the DSP everything was good again. BTW - Now that I am keeping the KRELL I have 1 too many amps with the Voyager and CODA #8 and one will have to go. Send me a DM if you ever decide to get a preamp. |
@jaymark Thanks for your thoughts about the a21+ vs. the Voyager. Those are my thoughts too, just a little "opaque" compared to some other amps I have had. It’s interesting that slightly opaque / cloudy can be fatiguing at least for me. Definitely looking for a new amp. Have you ever heard the Pass XA25? |
@yyzsantabarbara I love the detailed comparisons that you are providing. It's especially refreshing to see such a balanced, impartial approach you take when describing what you're hearing. Reading your reviews, as well as OP's, I'm pretty convinced that I need to give class D/GaN another chance. Hopefully, companies start to release integrated amps based on GaN soon. From what I've read, we should see something toward the end of the year. It sounds to me that the Voyager is giving your Coda, Benchmark, and Krell amps a run for the money. Considering that the Voyager is only $3k, this is quite an achievement. |
Avanti1960, the Parasound A21+ is a very sold amp, however, it is not as crystalline clean/clear as the Voyager. Probably a bit more grunt on the low end than the LSA Voyager. The PassLabs X250.5 is also a better sounding amp than the A21+. I do not listen to much rock. But on what I do listen to, jazz, New Age, classical, and some R&B, I have not found anything that is irritating or unlistenable because of amp distortion. |
Yyz, I also have found that room changes are often audible, so i do like to do a brief reassessment after making them. The changes I’ve made the last 8 months have all been focused on improving acoustics but sometimes just storing something or moving something out because it’s needed elsewhere is audible. Like with your convolution filter, I now like the SQ better with my room correction turned off. But that may change back for reasons I won’t go into for now….. This thread is about the LSA GAN-fet amp experiences being reported to the rest of us…. Thanks for reporting so thoroughly. |
@jaymark Thanks for your informative thoughts on the LSA Voyager GaN amplifier. A few questions if you don't mind- I see you also have the Parasound a21+. I also have this amp and like it but it isn't as pristine sounding as my former tube amplifier. Can you please compare the a21+ to the Voyager? As far as class D is concerned I have heard some very good ones. Even the best have a fatal flaw to my ears- dealing with music that has intentional distortion effects. Lots of rock music have recordings that compress and intentionally distort the music for effect- example Sonic Youth, Spoon, Arcade Fire, others. The class D amps tend to make the intentional distortion sound horrible- intolerable as a matter of fact. Have you had a chance to listen to music like this on the Voyager? Thank you. Tony |
One thing I learned yesterday and now today with more listening is that when I add or remove things in my room I need to really test everything again. I created a thread a few months ago about adding a TV into my room in-between the Thiels. I ended up buying a sound absorption panel based on recommendations. The end result was that even with the panel, moving the TV in-between the speakers really messed up the sound. The TV was previously to my LEFT closer to me than the speakers, so some reflections. Today I have the TV still to the LEFT but now in front of me and with good distance from the speakers. The sound absorption panel that I bought is now propped up beside my CD storage rack (I just need a place to store it). This was likely giving some bad reflections in the past. However, today I removed my Convolution filter for the Thiels and the sound is not fatiguing as in the past without the filter and the prior arrangement. I got to do more listening but this is a good initial observation for me. |
Don't know whether I mentioned this, but my V came with sorbothane footers. These slow and smear the sound. I use machina dynamic springs, but there are alternatives https://www.amazon.com/44-5x40mm-Compression-Isolation-Amplifier-Turntable/dp/B08MT1R4KZ/ref=sr_1_44... |
@yyzsantabarbara WOW. That’s some seriously good 411 I think we can point to speakers as XOs are typically done by ear in a specific room, to a specific amplifier, or taste. My Emerald Physics 3.4s (12" concentric drivers with 1" polyester dome tweeters) are plenty adequate for most rooms, but in my voluminous room I supplement with 2 SVS 12" down firing subs. I had the XOs set at ~ 80 (which works with some bass shy, or overly bright discs), but as I kept dialing them down to ~ 45 speed significantly increased as well as detail with my stock Voyager, yet still providing the fullness of notes say from a hollow body guitar, or banjo, and I suspect a violin, cello... Obviously, this can’t be done on hard wired XOs, where small changes can have a dramatic affect on the sound |
I spoke to @ricevs this afternoon and shipped my amp to him for delivery on Saturday. With regards to my demoing guest today. I am not sure if he will make the trek up to my place again. Today was a business meeting and we now have all the issues resolved. I will invite him up once the amp is returned buy I am not sure if he would be interested. The Voyager will not end up sounding like the KRELL. The KRELL has a very particular signature that is different from the Voyager. Neither one is better than the other. Just a matter of preference. As I mentioned in some other threads. The KRELL is buttery smooth, good detail, my most powerful amp on bass, and very relaxing. The Voyager will never sound like that. I use my Benchmark DAC3B with the KRELL. With the Voyager I use both my DACs. |
| Post removed |
yyz, Really nice, thorough job you guys did. Thanks to you and your friend. Are you still sending your Voyager off to Ric-EVS today to be modded? If so, you certainly can update some or all of these comparisons afterward, but will your friend be available to weigh in also? It will be very interesting to see if the Voyager can pull ahead of the Krell in some ways? If it's too much in the weeds to address, I understand, but were there any areas of performance where the Voyager was preferred over the Krell despite the Krell winning overall? Or can you say the overall delta between the two. Pretty close or pretty big? |
So my guest came over today for abut 3 hours and we did a deep dive into my gear. I am helping him setup some software for a show he is doing and what we did today with the demoing was related to the upcoming show. He is a musician, builds recording studios, build microphones, and a audio hardware vendor. We focused on Alison Krauss PAPER AIRPLANE because it was the first album that he recognized on my ROON. He is a personal friend of Alison so he knows her voice very well. He is also friends with some of the singers in the album so he knows how they should sound. He also built the recording studio mics that Alison uses, though I am not sure if it was used on the PAPER AIRPLANE album. So this guy was perfect person to evaluate my gear. We tested my gear out via ROON, with and without Convolution DSP. - Thiel CS3.7 + RAAL SR1a - Benchmark AHB2 mono | CODA #8 | KRELL K-300i | Voyager - Benchmark DAC3B | Gustard X26 Pro (both via ROON) - Sony SCD-1 Modified by Vacuum State Level 5+ (no ROON) He commented that his experience with Class D was not extensive other than some good subwoofers but he had never heard a good Class D on speakers. We learned a lot of things with our tests but I will only summarize what is important to this thread. He was easily able to hear things in the my music collection that I heard and a lot more because he had context of how the musicians (his friends) and instruments actually sounded. So I have a very high level of confidence in his observations. 1) He hated my Benchmark AHB2 monos though we only listened on the RAAL SR1a. He said the sound was not realistic and forced. I do not see it that way. I think it sounds the most realistic but I agree it is troublesome on the SR1a (much better on the Thiel which we did not try). 2) We then listened to the PAPER AIRPLANE via ROON on the Voyager. He was extremely impressed. He noticed it was detailed, non-fatiguing but also that it was reproducing the recording, he knew personally, as it was supposed to sound. The Voyager did sound great today to me too. I am at about 220 hours now. We did things with ROON software that made him comment that the sound became compressed and not realistic. Those things I did not notice before because I do not have his personal context to the music. 3) We then put on the CODA #8 and he was not as impressed as with the Voyager. He found it was not as detailed as the Voyager. The SINFF test I did earlier in the thread proved that to be true. He liked the CODA #8 but not as much as I do. He preferred the Voyager over the CODA. 4) We then tried the KRELL with the SRA1. I did not want to put it on the Thiel because of the hassles. He was shocked by the KRELL. He loved it and is thinking of buying one. He said that the Voyager was not as good as on the SR1a as on the Thiel (again something I also said previously) I am going to re-evaluate my usage of some software based on the comments I heard today. The Voyager was a home run as far as my guest was concerned. SO in the end the results in order of preference: 1) KRELL K-300i 2) Voyager 3) CODA #8 4) Very far behind Benchmark AHB2 (I like this one the best) BTW - we did most of the Voyager listening on the Thiel with my Sony SCD-1. I played him my highest quality SACD, Dark Side of the Moon. He was very impressed by the sound. He wanted to buy the SCD-1. It was interesting that he is a friend of the recording engineer on DSOTM, Alan Parsons, and Parsons lives very close to my house (I never knew). |
Last night I listened to Alison Krauss + Union Station New Favorite. Listened
to this disc at least 50-100 times. It was always entertaining, but I simply
wasn't prepared for how everything sounded so clear, so focused and
natural. Not even thinking about it, when the banjo played I was
floored, as I never noticed it before, because it never had its own
space or sounded so natural. Ditto all the musicians and singers. I remind anyone interested in this amp to read the Absolute Sounds Technics review in Jul 2021 issue. As I read it the other day, he nailed everything Im hearing, which should help you decipher my scribblings on how the Voyager sounds |
Notes from Walter re the LSA Voyager and hard loads - The 350 is 2 ohm stable so will have no issue with the Thiels. Our amp is similar to the Peachtree but we use far superior inputs and binding posts and the amps comes with our $150.00 internal cable upgrade. Both very good but we feel ours is $5-10% better as these upgrades do make a difference. Yes, 15% restock charge but that includes the freight to you. You just return it to us. Guess I'll wait and see what W4S comes out with.yyz glad the Discovery sounds great with your 3.7s! Fun times in hifi continue. |
| Post removed |
My listening session with the another set of ears will happen tomorrow. However, today I am going back and forth with the CODA #8 and Voyager, an apples-to-apples comparison. I am playing the same CD’s on my 20 year old Sony SCD-1 SACD player (modified to Vacuum State Level 5+). This source does not have DSP and is ’naked’ in my small room. I also still love the sound of this player, especially with SACD’s. Today the Voyager sounded very clear now (more hours). I cannot complain that it is not as clear as the CODA. The sound was actually very good and non-fatiguing. The bass seemed a little shy but the music was very engaging and fast. Once a disk was done I switched the XLR, Audience Conductor SE, and power cord to the CODA #8 and played the same disk again. Now with CODA the bass is a bit too much in my room. It is giving me a bit of fatigue, but I am in a small room with wall treatments but that extra software digital DSP is beneficial for the CODA. Not a fault of the amp but the room. The CODA also has more decay on the drum cymbals. The drum whacks are harder and more powerful. Maybe the term is ’air’ but the CODA has something to it that makes the Voyager sound a little flatter in comparison. The Voyager is actually more enjoyable with the the ’naked’ SONY over the CODA #8 because of the stronger bass of the CODA giving me fatigue. The room needs to be tamed first. I felt this was also the same issue with the KRELL K-300i (btw - compared with the $15K Boulder 866 in Stereophile this month). With my main digital streaming sources (DACs) this bass boom is not an issue with the CODA #8 because I have a Convolution filter for my Thiel CS3.7. |
tweak1, Although your Voyager is young, how does it compare to your EVS1200 so far? My stock Rouge IceEdge 1200 AS1 now has 360 hours on it, and it isn't much different than initially when I got it with factory burn in of 8 hours. The hour-to-hour variations in the Rouge are more correlated with my power quality. |
So far, all of EJ’s amps have been plug and play using IcePower and their own front end circuit. Would be nice if it were a stand alone design. We already have two of the same with Peachtree and LSA. If the Peachtree and LSA are the same it is a great time to get a super deal on the LSA from Walter. He knows that Peachtree has a 30 day money back and he charges $450 in restocking fees.....making the Peachtree much more desirable. So, I have no doubt he will give super trade in values and even straight discounts.....as he will want to unload as much merchandise ASAP.....especially in light of WFS’s about to be real... amp.....and the new $2500 GaN amp from Orchard (to ship in Oct.). A good time to be an audiophile.....great stuff....and, not so expensive! |
Tomorrow I will have someone that has decades of experience in the audio hardware (a vendor) and music business (recording studios) over to my place to listen to my headphone system. He is coming over to compare some amps. I will post his feelings on the LSA Voyager once we are done. I am now over 200 hours on the amp. |
There is, made by GaN them selves, so you know it "should" be good. (Could very well be the best of all GaN amps) (single purchase only, not available for multi purchase for commercial Class-D manufactures) But you’ll have to put it in a box, comes with all you need, power supply and integrated GaN Class-D stereo amp and DAC!! (if you can build simple kits you can build this it quite simple to make up) . You have volume control, analog input, 2 x digital spdif inputs optical and coax (yes it has a dac in it too) and variable feed back for those that don’t like too much for the sake of "better" measurements" all for just $1.3K https://gansystems.com/evaluation-boards/gs-evb-aud-xxx1-gs/ https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/GaN-Systems/GS-EVB-AUD-BUNDLE1-GS?qs=vHuUswq2%252BszP6hR0ubJmfw%... https://gansystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/GS-EVB-AUD-xxx1-GS_Technical-Manual_Rev-200526.pdf Cheers George |
"
BTW.....just got an email from Wyred for Sound.....in a month or so their 400W per channel $3000 GaN amp will be released. I wonder if they are also using the same modules and power supply that LSA and Peachtree are supposedly using. We shall see." I guess this is the new amp? https://www.stereophile.com/content/wyred4sounds-new-aura-preamplifier-gallium-power-amplifier-rs-1-... |
