Low Cost DACs

I was using a generic 6 foot 3.5/RCA to my Vali. I went with an 8 ft. Blue Jeans Cables BJC MSA-1 Audio Cable. It has made a noticeable difference. 

Would a more expensive cable have made a bigger difference? I doubt enough to justify the price.

Currently mu Modi3 is direct RCA connected to PrimaLuna Integrate. It's sounds okay but I'm wondering is a different Lap Top to Modi3 cable might help. using the stock cable. .

I usually have my Modi 3 in a stack with the Vali 2 on top.  It's not a lot of weight, so I can't really say if it's been a help.  What I do know is that any dac I've got sound mediore when plugged into my avr.  They are sound much better with the Vali 2 and my Grados.

I think it's because the AVR has too many compromises to the audio quality, and perhaps the preamp circuitry was one of the compromises.  I run the AVR in direct mode, which apparently doesn't process the signal in any way.  It doesn't even extract anything to feed the subwoofer.  

The dacs also sound much better in the 2 channel rig with a proper pre.

So I don't know about the weights although I agree that the unit should sit firm on the table, but it does appear to "break in" after about 50+ hours. Sounds less "brittle' and a bit fuller. I think maybe at some point I'll play with cables as they certainly effect overall output. For $100.00 with nothing other than my OPPO to compare, I'd say it's a decent deal.

Now that's interesting turnbowm. I'll gives that a shot and post my thoughts!Thanks.

Ran across this Modi 3 review (revisited) that was quite interesting.

(164) Schiit Modi 3 Revisited (2 months later) - YouTube 

In the second part of the review, he talks about the sound quality improvement that resulted from placing small weights on top of the Modi 3 case. I didn't have those particular weights on hand so instead I placed a book on top of the case and was taken back by the sound improvements. In particular, the upper midrange and highs were cleaner and more focused.

It makes for a no-cost experiment and you might be surprised (and pleased) by the result. No reason to think it wouldn't work for other light-weight DACs as well.

When you tire of the Modi try this: https://www.khadas.com/tone-specs

~$100 on Amazon Prime. See the guy’s review for whom the KTB bested the $3,500 NAD MS M12.

I’m sure you can find something you like at the $99 level.

I'm sure you're right, "213runnin," that there might be another DAC in that price range more to my liking.This, right now seems a bit "tinny." It may break in some and different cables might help. I'll play with it and hope it gets better. It's not bad considering it's certainly better than the direct connection I had before the DAC. So in that respect I can't complain.

I was referring to the Modi 3, now I see I didn’t actually mention that!  

213runnin681 posts01-22-2020 6:51am"In my headphone rig I find that the Modi is brighter than the Modi Multibit, but not unpleasantly so...."

Which Modi did you compare with the MB?

In my headphone rig I find that the Modi is brighter than the Modi Multibit, but not unpleasantly so. But in some rigs others might find it doesn’t suit their tastes.  Everybody has their own preferences, after all, I’m sure you can find something you like at the $99 level.

I've got to do something different with this laptop. This old HP Win7 just ain't cutting it. Keeps freezing when HD gets hot. I reformatted it the other day but Hard Drive is toast.

Amp is PrimaLuna Prologue, Speakers are Wharfedale Linton (new version). I sold a pair of Tekton Design Lore floor standers to purchase the Lintons. Much better sound stage and sound okay for the money.

Sounds like you have the cable issue well in hand then.  Have you mentioned what your amp and speakers are?

Will keep in mind the hours on the unit.I had Marrow Ma 2 Speaker & Interconnect cables. I didn't really care for them even after 200 - 300 hours of use. Of course I wasn't using them with the Modi 3 DAC.
Interconnects now are Signal Cable Copper.

When you get 40 to 50 hours on the Modi, it'll be much closer to the final sound.  Oh, I should ask what kind of RCA cables you have on the Modi.  In my experience anything that is fine strand copper I don't care for.  It may seem counter intuitive, but cables based on solid core individually insulated copper are truer to the signal.  

Something like Audioquest Forest or Golden Gate, or Morrow Audio MA2 RCA cables should help.

Hi 213runnin,Yes I agree that the Modi does benefit from breaking in. It does sound better than when new. However, I do find it a bit "bright" still after about 10-15 hours. Perhaps this will be reduced by some more time playing. Hope so! Currently I have it directly connected to my tube amp via RCA cables. I had sold my last Tos Link cable so I've ordered and am awaiting delivery of a new cable today. I intend to attach it to the optical in on my Oppo SACD player. I'll post again on how this sounds!

I’ve read owners reviews who compared the Modi 3 and Topping D50, and they preferred the Modi. The Topping stuff can be too sharp sounding, and not enough body or depth.

I’ve got the Modi and it does benefit from breaking in.  It’s a great sounding little dac, even playing my iPhone music on iTunes.

wcc10 OP111 posts01-16-2020 4:00pm"So upon further review, swapping out RCA cables & perhaps the unit burned in a little, I have to say that yes this laptop does sound better with this DAC. Soundstage is 'wider' and a little deeper...."

Be patient. The Modi 3 will continue to improve in SQ with additional run-in time (100 hrs min.).

AudioQuest Dragonfly. Good for laptops, mobile phone/tablets (ie, streaming Tidal on the go) or small systems. The new Cobalt gets a great review in the current issue of AbSound. Cobalt decodes MQA too. 
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audioquest-dragonfly-black-and-dragonfly-red-dacs/

Not 'redundant' if used at all ...

ghulamr, Thanks for the post. Yes, sometime we complicate things more than necessary. Not sure why I hadn't thought of that!??! Guess I wanted to play with something new!As for cables; yes I've ordered a Tos Link cable to attach Schiit to back of OPPO. (Redundant?) Unfortunately I had sold my only Tos Link some time ago. I'm sure it will not enhance the quality of sound but then I'm experimenting, I guess. After morning coffee I'm going to try what you suggested and I'll let you know. Thanks.

+1 for the Topping D70 or D50

@wcc10 Had to login and respond to your post. It's so funny I had the same dilemma as you couple months ago. I have a home theater room, a dedicated listening room where I have the Benchmark 3 DAC and my office where I have OPPO 105 (that I moved from my HT to office). I have my windows laptop connected to the dedicated USB input on my OPPO (I am assuming you have OPPO 105)? Sometime we take additional steps unnecessarily. The OPPO 105 has a very decent 2 channel dedicated ES9018 32 bit Sabre DAC that drives the USB capable of 2ch/192KHz sampling. I use the XLR to drive my powered speakers and the sound is very good. Form your laptop you can drive any music service that you subscribe to. Start with this and then invest in re-clockers, USB cables or better still USB to SDOF converteors  etc. Save your money and go slow without rushing. 

Topping makes one of the best most transparent DACs under 500. You can't argue with the measurements being up there close to RMEs DAC that goes for 3k

You might try apos audio for the Topping D70

OP, I have a Shek D2 (Sigtone) non oversampling Dac I bought new for just over 300 which has been used less than 100 hrs and a HagUsb converter that I bought new which cost 130 .. (Hagerman Technology)   would sell both for 200.    Went back and read more of your posts.   Schiit should work out and assume they have USB interface.  Wonder how Schiit compares with discontinued    Shek D2 ..   

both are listed -- on US Audio Mart.
Wanting to move some stuff out of here.

see my feedback on here.

Tempting but a ship date of mid February. Wonder why.

That's interesting. What are you playing it through? Amp wise?

I recently got the Topping D70. It not only bests my Oppo BDP-105D but has completely changed my concept of how good digital playback can be. Right now, Drop (Massdrop) is offering them for $400.

So let me ask you all this: I have the opportunity to purchase a 2019 Catalina Mac Book Pro 8th Gen i5 Lap Top at a good price. Do you think this would help overall sound quality or, as it's still going through the Modi3 DAC, it won't make much difference? Thanks.

Thanks Rego.I did all of what you suggested and Schiit was visible in Devise Manager 'cept there was a yellow exclamation point shown with Modi 3. So this told me it sees the Modi but there's a driver missing! At any rate, the thing would not play UNTIL I downloaded Gen 2 & Installed this program. Go figure! Yes, Schiit is set to 24/192 in properties.

So as long as Modi 3 is connected to Laptop via USB DATA port it is powered I'm wondering why I spent $50.00 for iFi Low Noise DC power supply?? Isn't this redundant power input? But it plays.

So let me ask you all this:I have the opportunity to purchase a 2019 Catalina Mac Book Pro 8th Gen i5 Lap Top at a good price.Do you think this would help overall sound quality or, as it's still going through the Modi3 DAC, it won't make much difference?Thanks.

Thanks Rego.I did all of what you suggested and Schiit was visible in Devise Manager 'cept there was a yellow exclamation point shown with Modi 3. So this told me it sees it but there's a driver missing!At any rate, the thing would not play UNTIL I downloaded Gen 2 & Installed this program. Go figure!!Yes, Schiit is set to 24/192 in properties.So as long as Modi 3  is connected to Laptop via USB DATA port it is powered I'm wondering why I spent $50.00 for iFi Low Noise DC power supply?? Isn't this redundant power input?But it plays.

I use a Chord Mojo in my loudspeaker system and it does a phenomenal job. Right now looks like most places are selling them for around $399.  

And to also echo some of the other responses you likely can't go wrong with an Audioquest Dragonfly or Schiit.

Low cost is a relative term $1500,$1000 for a Dac ?
value for money the MDHT tube dacs the orchid is very good under $1k ,the top dac using the BB 1704 is around $1400
i have friends who have both , the Lampizator Amber3 $2800
is by a long shot the Best Buy under $5k I sold my ps Audio $6 k 
dac and just put better tubes in sounds much more detailed and naturally musical. They offer a 2 week money back ,none of the other guys do . Tubes bring a more realistic Analog type sound 
to the performance. These dacs I know well , the mdht are excellent for the money but as soon say match the Lampizator 
Not happening I had them playing in my system . 

Windows 7 is not safe to use anymore. Try to buy a new computer with Windows 10 or get Linux (requires much tech work) or a new Mac (expensive).

https://www.lansweeper.com/news/are-you-prepared-for-windows-7-end-of-life/

wcc10, Windows is not detecting the USB connection.
"Please Connect The Cmedia USB 2.0 Device."
Disconnect the Modi DAC. And uninstall the drivers that you installed.
Restart after each uninstall / install with Windows 7.
After Uninstalling any installed drivers Reconnect the Modi USB Cable
and see if Windows ’detects’ Schiit USB Audio device.
If Schiit Audio USB Device is not on the ’Playback’ List then proceed to install Gen 2-3 drivers from the link on Schiit Audio website Downloads.
Links for three different versions ( v 1.16, v1.03, and Gen 3 ) for Windows 7 / 8 are available at schiit.com / drivers.
Please refer to Schiit Downloads Page for procedure and troubleshooting.
To check this open Sound > Playback Tab in Control Panel.
If Schiit USB Audio device is on the list be sure to select and Set as Default.
>> Important <<
Also check the Properties setting.
Control Panel > Sound > Playback Schiit USB Audio device > Properties > Advanced TAB > Select Format Sample Rate and Set the Sample Rate
to 24 / 192.
The Sample Rate Setting in Windows will effect the Output!
Also any Player settings! As per Schiit’s notes.
Gen 3 Drivers are necessary for Schiit’s Unison USB hardware and likely would not impart any difference in Sound.
This is sNeezy eZ no trial or tribulation is necessary.

So upon further review, swapping out RCA cables & perhaps the unit burned in a little, I have to say that yes this laptop does sound better with this DAC. Soundstage is 'wider' and a little deeper. Doesn't match my OPPO or vinyl but it obviously enhances Laptop audio.Just heard from Alexander at Schiit Audio. Seems I misunderstood Gen 3 download for drivers for Modi 3. They are not. He said plugging in the USB power should get it to work. I am using an external power supply but it's funny that it did not work BEFORE I ran Gen 2 software. Go figure!.

So Modi 3 arrived today. Attempted to hook up with old Windows 7 laptop. Would not install even though there was software for Win 7, Drivers included. I kept getting error message "Please Connect The Cemedia USB20 Device." ?? Tried Cemida drivers, etc, no dice!
After much trial & tribulation, and many attempts at installing various drivers, I finally got the "Gen 2" version of Modi 2 to install.So it plays but I've got to say; IT DON"T SOUND NO BETTER THAN BEFORE!
USB to Modi, RCAs to amp.
VERY Disappointed! Maybe with Gen 3 drivers would sound better but don't see how to install.Guess I'll sleep on it and see what's what over the week end.

nice list of DACs
https://darko.audio/the-darko-dac-index/

To be honest, I had a pair of MIT "Terminator" speaker cables which were good. but am now running AudioQuest spooled 14 AWG "Zip" cables and never been happier. I'm sure their USB cables are very good!

I switched from a generic USB data cable to an AudioQuest ‘Cinnamon’ cable $80 and noticed a drastic improvement in sound quality. 

I've always liked Analysis Plus cables, not all that expensive but very good build quality. Signal Cable too.

Do you use the Nano LE just for DSD or PCM audio as well?

I'm using the ifi nano LE to my preamp and I'm very happy with it. I have a Schitt Modi Multibit and a Nixon dac I like to try affordable dacs to see what I like but I'll never be a player in the >$1000 range so these will have to do. The thing they all have in common is they're musical and they're paid for.

speaking of USB cables, I've only used Schiit USB which is Straight Wire. anybody try something and found that it was worth getting over the Schiit USB? 

Check out  Wireworld. I use the Chroma. I bought a 1 meter length for $30 new. A great cable for the money. I use mine with the Modi2. 

Musical fidelity v90 dac, $299, and worth every penny. Beats out dacs costing way more. Very well reviewed in stereophile and they gave it a borderline class A component rating. To be honest, all the small box components from musical fidelity are fabulous, including the lx lps phono preamp & the lx2-HPA headphone amp.