LittelFuses Series 285 AUDIO/MEDICAL Quality

The "medical" application seems a little strange as I will not allow my doctor to install a fuse in me...no way man...

I holding off on the fuses for a few months. In order to upgrade my power condition system to Shunyata Delta with cables first.

George and Cakyol , I am sure you will say power is power. It will not make any difference, Right?

I know this will go over your head, and someone will put some "snake oil" spin on it, but here goes.
Do not put your amp/s on this power conditioning, as it will introduce a series resistance, and the whole point of have a very stiff "unregulated" amp power supply, means the lowest possible series resistance between the amps supply caps/output transistors and the wall outlet.
Ok for source equipment though, as they have regulated supplies and don’t really see that series resistance

I do not know what hardware he has,  it could be several variables.  Perhaps he will let us know?  

@boxer12,
My comment was meant for cakyol and not for you.
You just got your post up before mine. 😄
I was wondering if his gear was resolving enough and now that you've cleared that up, it makes a lot of sense.

All the best,
Nonoise

Boxer12 - Bad for what?

My bad Brubin 

I am sure $9 cables would not do much for any system including a Mid-fi,  Its too bad that blanket statements are made without the substance of experimentation. 
I holding off on the fuses for a few months.  In order to upgrade my power condition system to  Shunyata Delta with cables first. 

George and Cakyol ,  I am sure you will say power is power.  It will not make any difference, Right?  

Nonoise,
Yes, a little bit. It just gets old after a while. After reading what equipment he's using (on another thread), I'll cut him some slack for not hearing a difference with fuses & being satisfied with his $9 interconnects though. 

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"  was Shakespeare's way of saying, "SO triggered"!

Must be getting under your skin a bit, eh? 👍😄👍

"I guess Art Dudley was referring to 'nonoise' with his statements"

How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you can't even get that right?

Now for the last time, high end fuses do make a positive difference to sound quality (just using your tactics)

I guess Art Dudley was referring to 'nonoise' with his statements :)

What are your thoughts on Speaker cables or interconnects? Larger diameter cables are better so 2/0 welding wire should be great to use, but they sound like crud. So what is it then?  

Large diameter cables with the same geometry lower R & marginally change L&C. When calculating impedance, L&C are squared terms while R is linear.
see http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/CableSnakeOil.php

I'll bet your entire rig that if you let someone change fuses randomly without your knowledge, you will not detect any change. There are a lot of loonies in the audio field on both sides of the counter.

If the fuses or holders are ChiCom crap, replace them with Buss, Littelfuse, Osram or other reputable makes.

How often have foolzers left their gear connected for a year, decided to try a fuse, unplugged a bunch of connectors and presto the fuse is 'magic'.  If everyone would replug all their cables every few months, they would also transform their systems. If the system has fuses, reseat them as well. Ditto tubes.

I recently helped a fellow repair a tube amp he'd picked up for a song by simply replugging all the tubes a few times. Connectors are crap. Gold or otherwise.

Many speakers have internal push on terminals. Some are less than stellar quality. Pull your speakers apart and solder all internal connections.

Fremer et al. make money reviewing stuff.

“Less harmless are those audio enthusiasts who are least secure: those whose toxic rage at a world that does not accept the authority of their opinions—a world that persists in enjoying recorded music in ways of which they do not approve—accomplishes nothing other than making our hobby seem repellant.”

--Art Dudley

aubreybobb9 posts (quote  "Every true Audiophile I know is almost certainly certifiable. 😇😇😎" )

brubin OP15 posts

Why is it the fusers with hardly any posting history on something really meaningful in audio, are the most prolific posters when it comes to "snake oil" fuses.

From the person who said this:

Plus, silver oxidizes/tarnishes very quickly where exposed to air and may create contact issues in time.

There's this:

Silver and copper are both easily oxidized. The reason that silver and silver alloys are used for electrical contacts is because silver oxide is just as conductive as silver metal. Copper on the other hand has a non-conductive oxide and so it is typically not used for contacts unless there is some pretty heavy wiping occurring, i.e. the surfaces are scraped in the process of making a connection to cut through the oxide layer.

Draw your own conclusions.

All the best,
Nonoise

Cakyol -

So reviewers like Michael Fremer are delusional and/or very gullible?

Perhaps you never tried quality audio cables or have a system that is not transparent enough to hear a difference... etc

There are more cables than ohms law and shielding - The removal of the noise is more than shielding it is the removal of distortion.  Capacitance, inductance all play a role in audio quality.    Its Litz wire all delusional?

Brains?    They don't need no stinking brains!

"Anyone who claims they can hear a
difference is delusional and also think that tooth fairy, unicorns, traction beams and pixie dust are also real"

Pixie dust is great!!

More seriously, guys, everything matters including fuses. 

In my life I have moved from basic fuses to early audiophile fuses to Synergistic Research black, to SR blue, to last week, SR orange.

I got good results from every move. 

But finally the move to orange last week, straight out of the box was transformational in my system which is pretty basic in its components.  Now, 4 days later, I would say it's among the top 5 bang for the buck upgrades in my system over the last 50 years.  And it's still getting better every day. 

All SR products are available on a 30 day return policy (I think?). 

So you naysayers, you scoffers, you who decry anything which can't be explained by current science, this is your chance to open your minds.....mind you, don't be too open minded - your brains might fall out.

With interconnects, the MOST important thing is proper shielding. Unless you are running very long cables, most are ok. You dont need to spend more than a few bucks. I found this one to be the best for my cartridge to phono preamp, it works absolutely PERFECTLY:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016QVZF06/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cant beat it for 9 bucks.

Shielding, keeping them short and away from higher current cables are the most important considerations for interconnects & low signal cables, especially the lower the signals become (like in MC cartridges).

For cables carrying more current, like power cords & speaker cables, the only requirement is that they are thicker (10 awg or less) and are pure copper. Silver may help a teeny teeny bit more but absolutely not worth the extra cost. You will never hear the difference and even a spectrum analyzer wont detect that much of a distinction. Plus, silver oxidizes/tarnishes very quickly where exposed to air and may create contact issues in time.

With digital cables, even the crappiest & cheapest ones WILL work perfectly , as long as they are within the correct category rating (cat5k up to 100 Mbits/sec, cat 6k & more up to about 1Gb/sec for up to 100 or so feet).

Dont fall for most of the bs about cables & connectors and especially fuses. Most of it is snake oil. People THINK they hear a difference, they DONT. They can not bring themselves to admit hearing no difference after having paid a $100 for a fuse.

Cakyol,
What are your thoughts on Speaker cables or interconnects?  Larger diameter cables are better so 2/0 welding wire should be great to use, but they sound like crud.  So what is it then?  

If fuses don't work then why are people saying they work?  

Bill

For the last time, fuses do NOT affect sound in ANY way.

If you think otherwise, you are either delusional and/or very gullible to the power of suggestion from marketing folks.

If it was otherwise, dont you think manufacturers of audio equipment would not already put one in there since their reputation is on the line ?  Would they try and save a few dollars on a device they are selling for thousands of dollars, and jeopardize their reputation ?

If you do not believe engineers, at least think about it.

I’ll save you the trouble of checking his posts. He has never tried a "premium" fuse

Got me there sunshine, I have never tried one.
  
But I was present when an  SR "Blue" was put into this https://ibb.co/6XK5dxX by the owner on his Thiel 3.7's and no one could pick a difference.
He even tried to trick us by not putting it in the first time he said he did.

but if you would add content or data to backup your opinion it would add value.

I don’t have yet again, as "if" you care to search you will find all that I’ve said technically on the matter in many post.
Cheers George

Brubin,
I’ll save you the trouble of checking his posts. He has never tried a "premium" fuse but just "knows" they are all snake oil.
(You’re Welcome)

My opinion is that they definitely make a difference and are worth changing out.

If you knew how to use the search, you can search one or two words for that member.

Like this, LDR (in the word search) georgehifi (Filter by specific user)
And this is what comes up.
  
Pages and pages
https://forum.audiogon.com/search/index?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=ldr&username=georgehifi

First
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/lightspeed-attenuator-vs-goldpoint-sa1x/post?highlight=%2Bldr...

Sure  I will read all your 7635 post

Like I said search, and you'll be answered.

Thank you George for your comment, you have validated my point.  You did not say, "I tried swapping fuses with ... X results".  Do you believe speaker cables or interconnects make a difference?  If so why not fuses?

Bill

but if you would add content or data to backup your opinion it would add value.

I don't have yet again, as "if" you care to search you will find all that I've said technically on the matter in many post.
Cheers George 

 George, 
You guys crack me up.   Yes George this posting was about fuses, but that does not mean I have an obsession.  I am seeking answers.  On the other hand, you have not told me about your experience with fuses.  What about cables?  are you using Lamp cords or 2/0 welding wire?  

Don't get me wrong George your input is appreciated, but if you would add content or data to backup your opinion it would add value. 

Nonoise,

You like poking the poor old bear, don't you :)

Thanks again and good listening
Bill

Mr Rubin,

There's a BAZILLION : 1 ratio between the effect of cables and fuses.

Where foolzers go wrong is thinking their system is stable. It is not. It and they change day to day.

It is impossible to shut down a system for the time it takes to change fuses and have it sound identical upon restart.

DO THE MATH!!!

And your even worse

Georgie, you're not really all there, are you?

Calling someone else obsessed is textbook projection.

All the best,
Nonoise

Brubin your "fuse obsessed", you’ve been a member for over 9 months now, and all save one of your posts are about fuses, see what I’m getting at? there’s a lot more to this audio obsession out there, beside being just a fuser.

Cheers Dr. George

Well looks like I can use Ceramic Fast blow with High Breaking capacity after all.. It is to bad that the Littelfuse series 285 does not have a fast blow option. I am going to give the Littelfuse series 216 ceramic a try for my speaker rail fuses since they are fast blow. Note the original fuses are glass. My other power fuses for main power and tubes are slow blow so I will change them to the series 285. Note the fuses that came with the amp were ceramic gold plating. Will report changes here.

Thank you all for your support.
Bill

I suspect you would do just fine with those.

Somebody please read this and report back.
https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/application_guides/littelfuse_fuseology_application_guide.pdf.pdf

Thank you  Nonoise.   I totally understand where people come from with fuses not making any difference, but they probably never tried, and if they did perhaps their system is not transparent enough to hear it. 

I was reluctant about speaker wire but tried out a pair of knock ofKimbers and they made a difference after that I purchase Tara Lab cable and it was a whole new world of listening. 

Paul oversimplifies Fast / Slow styles. There are many more types than fat / skinny for any number of specific uses.

40+ years ago in professional recording studios we found that poor quality plating or construction on fuses and holders could have deleterious effects on sound quality. These were truly sh!tty products with bad base metal, poor plating, end cap welds, etc.

BUSS, Littelfuse, Osram, etc. fuses do not suffer these quality defects.

The 285's look like a good solution.

I've seen that video many times before as it's always brought up in defense of aftermarket fuses but the naysayers always find some inane reason to discount it. 

Do yourself a favor and google Hi Fi Tuning Silver Star fuses for sale as they've been discontinued and are being scooped up at their $16 asking price, which is a bargain. Not all values are available so if you can't find the one you want stateside, try amazon and eBay over in Europe and go country by country if you have to. I've done it and it's no hassle. 

I've never had one blow and I use 5 of them in my gear for the last 6-7 years and they are more than a damn sight better than bog standard fuses. 

All the best,
Nonoise

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFlnQ1chBno&feature=youtu.be

I was looking for fuses that meet the manufactures requirements. Are there any ceramic 5x20 Fast blow fuses which are L=Low Breaking capacity that anyone has tried which provide quality audio? I am looking to find quality fuses or audiophile fuses that can truly provide specifications and industry standards regarding Low breaking? 

The answer is no. The question is why it matters? The answer is it doesn't. Do you think otherwise? Why?

They don’t sound any better just because they have a more robust glass or end caps, end of story. The fusers will try to have you believe otherwise. It’s all "snake oil and voodoo" for any sound differences.

Cheers George

Come on guys - I am serious. We all know everything can affect sound quality and change the characteristics. I did not want to debate if fuses can or can’t impact sound. I was looking for fuses that meet the manufactures requirements.  Are there any ceramic 5x20 Fast blow fuses which are L=Low Breaking capacity that anyone has tried which provide quality audio? I am looking to find quality fuses or audiophile fuses that can truly provide specifications and industry standards regarding Low breaking?

@brubin,
Did you mean my pointing out the sarcasm that georgehifi always does when it comes to fuses? How about the two others that followed? Check the archives for any discussion on fuses and see what georgehifi contributes.

All the best,
Nonoise

roxy54,

Abraham Lincoln once said "If you are arguing with an idiot on the internet, make sure that he isn't doing the same thing."

Meaning "you may also be an idiot on the other end".... I did not know they had internet then... Very interesting :-)

@brubin,

If you think you will have a fuse in an audio equipment which even momentarily can withstand 1500A, you better talk to your fire insurance agent very carefully to renegotiate your rates.

Fuses are just wires with a small bit of resistance. They do not affect the sound. Anyone who claims they can hear a difference is delusional and also think that  tooth fairy, unicorns, traction beams and pixie dust are also real.

Nonoise  - anything to add other than sarcasm?

I'll give this thread 5 posts, before it goes south.

Any bets?

Well, it took 8 posts. I should have taken the bet.

All the best,
Nonoise

Agree to the fast-blow, slow-blow,
The littelfuses  Series 285 were for my Slow blow fuses,  but the 

BHK 250 Amp uses 4  F10AL250V F= Fast Blow 10 AMP L=Low breaking capacity 250V glass 5x20 fuses for the speaker connections 

I have yet to find any ceramic 5x20 fuses which are L=Low Breaking capacity. I have found is a H=High breaking capacity.

I am skeptical that any of the  audiophile fuses which are ceramic are L=Low breaking.  Could this become an issue?