Sometimes this forum makes my head explode, in 12 dimentions.
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the idea that the amount of insulation on wire is said to"smear" the sound is not logic and definitely not electronics or physics Do as the poster above said - monoblocks with short runs of cable to each speaker - if that is too expensive then use your time wisely by moving speakers and building room tmts. |
I use a high-end integrated tube amp, not mono blocks so I need longer speaker cables... for those, I have 8 foot AntiCables which have a very thin insulation painted on. (I’d like shorter cables, but I am otherwise delighted with my setup.) The AntiCables sound great, on or off the wood floor. (There is a large oriental rug between the speakers and the listener, but not under the cables.) When I raise the cables (they are quite stiff) using only 3 or 4 re-purposed glass-insulators there is a slight but detectable improvement in the clarity of sound (or "blackness" in quiet). It is quite subtle, so I think the AntiCables are a winner for matching Avalon speakers with an Ayon tube amp. I have a great system and am pretty happy, so sometimes I use the glass risers but often not. The logic behind this is pretty straight forward, the amount of insulation on wire is said to"smear" the sound. I believe that effect is less with the AntiCables to begin with (minimal insulation), and less on my wooden floor than on an otherwise carpeted floor. I understand that different materials affect this dialectic effect more or less. I read frequently that natural materials generally have an advantage over manmade ones, such as most wall-to-wall carpets. You can clue-in that plastics might present a problem just by the static charges that can develop under dry conditions. A few years back, I bought a mess of old glass insulators that formerly were used on telephone poles to hold bare electric wires. EBay has several sellers, these things work well and they look uber cool versus special risers, which are more expensive. You could also use little notched blocks of wood, if woodworking is your hobby, or any number of other things (such as a coke bottle with a rubber band to hold the speaker cable fast. The point is, it can be trivial to test the concept before you commit yourself to enriching an accessory maker. Easy to try, you might find it is beneficial. I expect YMMV, depending on your speaker cables and your floor materials. ...claiming it is nonsense without actually trying it is bogus and demonstrates that something else is at work in your personality. |
I made some with 2 inch thick leftover oak from a prior job. The benefit I was seeking was to allow easier dusting and to relieve some of the strain on the connections from the weight of the cables. For those reasons it worked. As far as sound improvement goes I never thought of it in those terms and never noticed any past the cables own qualities. As a side, some of you IMHO should understand this "snake oil" some keep using to attack anything they may disagree with is not in the right context. The litigation of snake oil was in that the product had NO snake oil in it , the product actually DID work as claimed. Which is not the case in any of the naysayers beliefs that none of them work. |
There was a kind young man on Audiogon a few years ago who was collecting and offering handsome sets of dark brown, fairly large but not obtrusive antique porcelain insulators for a reasonable price. I gladly bought two sets from him to keep my long new (to me) bi-wired flat-but-fat speaker cables off of the carpet-over-concrete slab in our living room. I have the same issue another member already mentioned: the left speaker is perhaps only three feet of cable length from our big Levinson amp, while the right speaker is probably twelve or so cable-feet away. While I will not claim the insulators vastly improved the sound, the upgraded cables made a positive difference in our enjoyment of music, and the insulators look good and functionally manage the coiled dual runs of excess cabling on the left side of the room, between our rack and the speaker. They make keeping the cables clean easier and help to keep them secured to our large full-range speakers by reducing the tug of the weighty bi-wired run. The insulators were a reasonable investment in our primary system, and I appreciated the care the seller took in selecting, matching and meticulously packing them for me. They were not expensive - perhaps $230 or so all in - and I'm glad to have them. I like to think they make a difference; however, as with all scientifically unproven tweaks, your mileage may differ, and if you consider their use to be an instance of "snake oil," I still respect your opinion. |
The only situation I can come up with where lifters Might make a difference...setting aside 'equal length cables' (which I'll subscribe to) of the same type (a no-brainer) is if you have a metal floor.... ...which puts you on a boat or an aircraft (UFO?)... Static charges from the rug? Only if you walk around next to the cables constantly. Vibration? Do you live next to a busy interstate? Like, under it? Twilight Zone/Outer Limits stuff, IMHO....but have at it... I think you'd be better off buying some nice bourbon...herbage...or, if you're an extremist, some LSD for a real 'change of pace'...;) I'm reminded about the old saw about opinions, and it's relation to another body part and it's (granted) different function at one's 'south 40'... i will go away now... |
roxy54 I think it’s a good idea, and I have been using my own homemade ones for years. Take some PVC pipe, any gauge that fits your cables, and cut it into 4 inch sections. Now, slice those sections in half, and use PVC brush on cement to cement the top of each half circle back to back. They set instantly, and they look good, and are so stable on the floor. Nice, similar to Enid Lumley’s (The Absolute Sound) cable tunnels, made using pine 2x4’s of appropriate lengths, two for the sides and one for the top. The cable or power cord is suspended from the top 2x4 via thread and eye hooks so it's hidden from view. The pine can be treated with anti static spray. I built Enid’s cable tunnels for my Quad 57 cables around 25 years ago. Time flies when you're having fun. |
Geoff has as comrade in arms with Teo weighing in on the question raised by the OP. I hear nothing but pablum from the two of them. Kooky nonsense, really. However, if there is some benefit from elevating speaker cable, then get a saw and cut up some 2X4's with a notch to elevate cable and see if it is worthwhile. I see lots of rooms at audio shows that use pricey cable elevators so maybe there is some benefit to it. Try the no-cost approach first to see if there is some benefit to the elevation process. Frankly, I have a life to live and cable elevation is not an audio anxiety with which I choose to engage. However, a discussion of the sonic differences between NOS tube variants, yes, that is a worthwhile discussion. My carpet-dwelling speaker cables make my system sing. Relaaaax and enjoy the music. Cheers,Whitestix |
I think it's a good idea, and I have been using my own homemade ones for years. Take some PVC pipe, any gauge that fits your cables, and cut it into 4 inch sections. Now, slice those sections in half, and use PVC brush on cement to cement the top of each half circle back to back. They set instantly, and they look good, and are so stable on the floor. I can't swear that it changes the sound for the better, but it keeps them away from dust bunnies, and I have heard that it also keeps them away from static charges on rugs. As one member said, they are also useful for separating power cables that are close to one another. and two of them cradle and lift my power strip. |
If you have extremely cheap cables with minimal insulation, and if you have a lightweight suspended wooden floor you might hear some slight changes. I tried various devices years ago and concluded that on a concrete or other solid floor, the differences are inaudible with good cables, barely audible with very cheap ones. As you go up to better cables you will get progressively less benefit. Thats my 2c worth. |
I encountered some relatively cheap ceramic donuts at a farmers market - still they were more expensive than I thought they should be. Something like $20 a piece. Their purpose is to hold down the veggies or fruit while doing the crucial part of home canning (heating things up). There is a name for these things - forget now what it is - but when I googled it I found that most are not donuts but just simple shapes. Might have to get some if I encounter them again. I think they would look quite cool but something that handles vibration as well is probably better. Fishing line from the ceiling? Highest Wife Acceptance ever! |
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I am agnostic on whether cable risers make a difference. Therefore, I would not spend a lot of money on cable risers, especially since my basement system does not have appearence rules set by my wife. That said, a few years back, an audio buddy ordered a bunch of thick foam cut into keystone-shaped pieces. They are ~5" high, and, I would guess, offer some vibration isolation. They were cheap enough that I bought them. IIRC, I think they were about $10 for a dozen of them. So, I use them, but I have never really spent the time to try and hear if they make a difference or not. One post did catch my eye, though: chazro mentioned that he had coiled some speaker wire due to the length being longer than required. While I would not argue for unequal cable lengths, you should never coil speaker wire (or any wire, AFAIK), because the coil will act as a resistor(?), and reduce high frequency through-put. I had been making the same mistake after I moved my amp from my equipment rack to be closer to the speakers. Some audio buddies of mine saw that, and one asked "do you feel your highs are too rolled off?" I said, as a matter of fact, I do! And he said "that’s because of your coiled speaker cables." He proceded to shorten my speaker cables. Veils were lifted. Highs were extended. The Soundstage widened. Unicorns flew over rainbows that arched between my speakers. YMMV, of course. |
pokey77 randy-11 Your statement is quite strong. It presupposes that somehow all of us understand how to determine what "math" is required for this problem and then even more for us to successfully do the "math" that would provide the correct answer. I assume there are some who frequent this forum that have that ability including engineers, scientists, audio designers, etc. But, as a guess, I’d assume most of us in here don’t have that skill set. For me, I know I’m not one of those who can do the math. I’m afraid there’s nothing more to his post than a last ditch effort by a lugubrious naysayer to throw everything he can think of on the wall to see if it sticks. You know the routine. "It’s scientifically impossible." "Even a high school graduate knows that." "It disobeys the laws of electricity and physics." "Do the math" is just than another silly attempt to disparage audiophiles by a obvious tweakaphobe who has just run out of ammo. So sad, really. |
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randy-11 Your statement is quite strong. It presupposes that somehow all of us understand how to determine what "math" is required for this problem and then even more for us to successfully do the "math" that would provide the correct answer. I assume there are some who frequent this forum that have that ability including engineers, scientists, audio designers, etc. But, as a guess, I'd assume most of us in here don't have that skill set. For me, I know I'm not one of those who can do the math. Now for the obvious question, No, I've never tried this tweak so I've no skin in the game. Finally, for me, with tweaks, (and I've done few) I just try them and if they make a worthwhile change, I'm pleasantly surprised. Because, like you, better sound quality is my objective. |
FWIW my experience is that the vibration control effect is more important than the dielectric. I recently upgraded from Shunyata Dark Field Elevators V1 to V2. The latter have an elastic suspension. On my long (10 meter) interconnects the impact of the suspended lifters is noticeable. Greater clarity and ease, without them the system sounds slow and congested http://www.shunyata.com/index.php/products-vm/accessories/df-ss-detail personally I have never liked the heavy porcelain ones my alternative (which I use on the long runs providing power to my actively shielded cables) are the simple Doug Fir ones from Cardas. The Shunyata are expensive but you could come with a DIY alternative with a similar elastic suspension |
Paul_graham, Now that's as reasonable an explanation as any. As long as the cost is sane, who's to say how one dresses up their acoustic achievement? You can look at it like window tinting on a car or a nice leather case for your camera. Both aren't needed but it's totally up to the individual. Finishing touches are a reward unto themselves. All the best, Nonoise |
