Latest Absolute Sound

Actually a Koenigsegg Agera A sold recently in Singapore for a cool 5.3 Mil. If the YouTube video I linked to doesn't get your heart racing I have some bad news for you. You dead.

I get what every one is saying, but try making a component.  Design, test, re-do design, make it work, figure on how to get the parts you need consistently, design a chassis, box, shipping material, manuals, advertising, etc.  No wonder there are high priced components versus the low priced components.  I did not know who was buying them myself but speaking to a few industry insiders recently, there are people buying the high priced stuff and more than I thought.

Happy Listening

If anyone on this website can afford a Keonigsegg Agera the last thing they would have to worry is what an amp cost. I believe the Agera is about 3 million.

I would take that Keonigsegg Agera A in a heartbeat.  I like the whole freewheelin' idea of bolting the engine to the chassis for one thing. There is a terrific youtube review of the Koenigsegg Agera A, just follow the link below....

http://youtu.be/RUfkyMCDYhU

I've lived in Europe.  I should say lived it up in Europe.  I had a good time.  I've lived everywhere, as Johnny Cash sang. 

Regardless of priorities, $80k is a lot of money for most people, either Americans or Europeans. I would have to be making something like quarter of million dollars per year to may be able to justify such expense. I prefer older cars though, modern cars are very much computers on wheels. But that Swedish Koenigseg...

It comes down to one's priorities. I had the choice of buying a new 2015 Corvette Z06 with the aero package or buying new speakers, preamplifier, 5 monoblock amplifiers, and new cables. I'm here posting and not the Corvette owners forums. ;)

As someone said - the New World is a disaster but the Old one is no achievement-.
Personally, I don't think that any fathers let alone founding fathers like democracy, it threatens their authority and  ' God given right ' to implement the original orthodox ideas they believe they know as they see fit.
Schubert, no offence intended, but at times you do sound like a founding father. So do I.

Didn't ask you to move there, you'd be very unhappy .

Europe.  Now, there's an accident waiting to happen.  Thanks but no thanks.

geoffkait, 1. The USA is a republic NOT a democracy as evidenced by our entire political system which is totally unlike any other because our founding fathers hated democracy and said so in every possible way .

2. The Social Democracy model of capitalism of northern Europe, which are all democracies, is far superior to our dog eat dog version of capitalism .

And to save you the eternal knee-jerk ignorant remark "why don't you go there" none of them are keen to admit old men highly probable to use up funds on their universal health care systems and $ 2000 + per month for private insurance  would cause me to curtail my charitable giving which I deem more important than my personal
desires .

Curious if anyone actually knows any sales figures for 12k - 97k amps 

One thing to keep in mind is, these high end manufacturers are selling to a world market. I know of one who told me  his best customers are in Brazil. Take a look at Magnepan's ads in the magazines ... "Made in America, sold in China." With emerging economies comes disposable income. Then there are the ultra-wealthy oligarchs in Russia, China ... and more. 

Inequalities exist in a democracy.  Not everyone is going to be rich.  It's in more or less equilibrium.  It is what it is.  Got something better?

The USA has the greatest income inequalities in the world,save Brazil.
 The top 10% have 90% of the total wealth ,thats over 30 million people .

I am quite surprised about how much is actually being sold.  Last weekend, I went to a dealer that was doing a demonstration of the $200,000 ClearAudio turntable/arm/cartridge combination.  The US distributor and ClearAudio representatives from Germany were there.  In talking with the store owner, I asked if he ever expects to sell even one table.  He said he doesn't know, but, he is pretty certain that two customers will buy the linear tracking tonearm that was on that table (TT-1) and can be mounted on lower-priced models, such as the ClearAudio Master.  That arm costs something like $30,000.  

In response to the original question, if people were not buying that expensive gear the companies would not be in business.

One big difference between the ultra-expensive supercars and the audio component equivalents is that VERY few of the owners of such cars will ever actually drive the cars to the limit of their capability and actually "use" all that technology and expensive construction.  All it takes for a lazy audiophile to fully utilize the capability of his system is to flip a switch and sit down in a comfortable chair.  Every day, under any and all conditions the performance of the gear can be appreciated.

Whether the small increment of difference  between good gear and ultra high end gear justifies the price difference is really up to the buyer.  If the buyer is not necessarily "hearing" better sound but it deluding himself, he is still getting something for HIS money.  

Yes, Absolute Sound, and the like, do a lot of reviews of very expensive equipment; that is because a lot of the readership is entertained by reading about such gear.  In a perverse way, a review of "real world" gear that is  intended to help real someone decide on what to buy, actually is a disservice.  Purchases should rarely be based on a review, at best, reviews are an introduction to possible candidates--describe basic features, point out possible areas of concern--and whether or not the gear might fit one's personal taste can only be hinted at by knowing what the reviewer tends to favor.  It is unfortunate that a lot of gear IS sold largely on reviews and reputation.   

Risking redundancy, I’ll say my point (shared by some) is that more money does not necessarily get you into "serious" sound quality, or I what I assume onhwy61 means is "higher" sound quality, just more expensive high quality if set up properly.  I, of course, have no idea exactly what other people’s ears are hearing, but often I disagree with what others think is good sound  especially in high end stores where somebody is trying to make a case that what they’re selling is great. I recently mixed a Julian Lage concert in a 350 or so seat concert venue (Scott Colley and Kenny Wolleson bass and drums) where I miked Julian’s 2 ancient and dissimilar tube amps and that’s it. Talk back mic…off when they were playing…I did have mikes on everything else (looks more professional and hey…I get slightly overpaid for this stuff) but at the band’s suggestion left ’em off. That’s the kind of sound that influences my home rig taste, and my home rig sounds nothing like that show. Was it high quality? NO CLUE…it was simply great sound. To me…and the stunned crowd. I’ve made a clean high (supposedly) resolution recording of myself playing a great acoustic guitar with a great mic, and played it on my personally tweaked listening (as opposed to my recording) rig, and then played the same thing on the same guitar live as a demonstration for some friends (you can’t really hear what others hear while you’re playing the damn thing yourself)…the results were interesting, and that sort of thing can show you realities of reproduced sound that maybe some people (audiophiles mostly) are possibly better off not knowing. 

"Does anybody sit in front of their relatively inexpensive but carefully assembled rig in an "active listening" session and think, "Damn, this sounds SO FRIGGIN' GREAT?" 

Yes, I do.

"......I often think…hmmm…my stuff sounds better…and, interestingly, it actually does."

So does mine. :)

+1, wolf_garcia.

J.

"It's also possible to spend large sums of money and get a poor performing system, but let's assume most audiophiles have a decent sense for good quality sound and know what they are doing."

Bad assumption knowing Big Buck posters IMO!

Don c55,

i agree with you 100%.

Yes it is audio porn.  some of it is expensive audio porn, some of it is cheap audio porn.  Just like HGTV is house porn. Most of the megabuck systems I've heard at shows put me right to sleep.  W some exceptions.  Right now what I am listening to, I paid about $7k for,  Admittedly used, but still, that won't get you in the Magico/YG/Constellation/FIM/Soul door.  Lately, I've been thinking, boy does this sound f'n great a lot (tip of the hat to Grannyring for the amp he sold me).

Wolf,

i thought I was the only one that didn't think Magicos sounded that great. I have heard them at shows and audiophile meetings. They have never done a thing for me. If all you do is read TAS and never listen to them you would think they are the greatest thing since sliced pie. 

Here's my system:
Vandersteen 5A loudspeakers
Luxman 509U integrated, 120 wpc
Luxman D06 CD/SACD player
TT, but rarely ever used these days/weeks/months/years.

I often sit in front and think "Damn, this sounds so friggin' great".

But, of course, my set-up has tone controls that I use to adjust many older recordings, so they sound friggin' great to me.  Without them, the good discs sound fg, but the poor ones do not.

Wolf, in the audioverse people spend large sums of money for very small differences in sound quality.  From my perspective $5k buys a good system and $20k gets you into serious sound quality.  People spending multiples of that amount can readily get better sonic performance, but it's a very small increase.  From what I can tell these people are perfectly happy spending the money for those results.  Magazines (and audiophiles mimicking the mags) resort to hyperbolic language to describe the small changes.  So yes, relatively inexpensive systems can sound "SO FRIGGIN' GREAT", but it is also possible to sound slightly more FRIGGIN' GREAT if you want to spend the money.

It's also possible to spend large sums of money and get a poor performing system, but let's assume most audiophiles have a decent sense for good quality sound and know what they are doing.

Does anybody sit in front of their relatively inexpensive but carefully assembled rig in an "active listening" session and think, "Damn, this sounds SO FRIGGIN' GREAT?" I agree with a comment in a recent mag that said something like "nobody really knows what an original recording sounds like as even the engineers heard it through monitors that can't ever be actually neutral." When I (rarely) sit in some high end audio "salon" listening to Magicos hooked directly to an offshore tax shelter, I often think…hmmm…my stuff sounds better…and, interestingly, it actually does.

No books, no music. Just refrigerator, TV and guns.

The balk majority of products that pass thru TAS and Stereophile  I will never own, but I do enjoy reading about such products and get a kick out of the way the reviewer go to great lengths to describe the sound. As already said take it with a large grain of salt, and enjoy the glossy pictures.

Oregonpapa,

i will never forget going to look at a basis TT that had the vacumn hold down clamp. I don't remember what model it was but I remember it being expensive. It was being sold in the classified section of the Los Angeles times. This must of been around 15 years ago. The guy lived in a dump in Hollywood. But he had really high-end equipment and thousands of records. I remember the TT having layers of dust on it and it really turned me off. I didn't even bother listening to it.

I found it so odd that no character in the Seinfeld sitcom was ever listening to music or reading a book. The only system I saw was Jerry's, and it was just as you would expect.

^^^ Taters ...

I've found that most dealers will give a substantial discount in order to get the cash flow moving. So many of the high-end products have a markup of 40 to 50% ... so a dealer that still has old stock when a new model is coming out, or a dealer who needs to make the rent/payroll/light bill at the end of the month would look favorably toward an offer that still makes him/her a profit. Especially for a good repeat customer.

Also, I agree with you about high end audio equipment in multi-million dollar homes. My business has taken me into a lot of those homes over the years. As you said, other than dedicated theater rooms, you just don't see what we're interested in here. Conversely, about six months ago, I was in a moderately priced home that a middle class family was selling ... and lo and behold ... a pair of Martin Logans driven by Krell amps. No turntable .. all digital. 

Just another comment on the high-end homes ... its not unusual to see a nice sized flat screen TV in every bedroom with DVR's and gaming equipment at the ready. Also common in these homes are full-house sound systems pumping  background music through wall speakers. 

Final observation: Over the past 38 years because of my business I have been inside of thousands and thousands of homes. Over this time it has been amazing to me that the large percentage of homes that I go into have no books and no music. None. Go figure. 

Take care ...

Oregonpapa,

what I said was there is a dealer in my area that will give you 20 percent off the top without asking. I would imagine if a person was serious they could finagle another 5 to 10 percent off that. He doesn't carry Vitus or boutique brands like that. He does carry high-end audio that a working man can buy. He used to carry boutique brands but he could not give them away. The market for this extremely priced gear is very limited. And the demographic he deals in is a lot of 1 percenters. People think because someone is rich they are going to buy these over the top boutique brands. The reality is most people have money because they are a value shopper. Sure they want great stuff but they still want to enjoy looking at their 6 figure checking accounts. I have never been to a rich person's house and seen extremely expensive equipment. Sure they might have a 6 figure home theater setup but that is for the family entertainment. When I have seen super expensive gear it has been in apartments or small homes where the occupants are usually single and have the discretionary income to buy what they want. 

"Though i’ve found with few exceptions the companies with the most integrity don’t take out full page ads in glossy audio mags."

Maybe, I haven't counted but have you seen their glossy brochures that are available at audio shows?

I have no problem with the prices of some of this esoteric gear, it is of no relevance to me and often does not corrolate to better, at least some of what I've heard but for sure bigger and shinier finishes, "ain't that grand" as my Great Auntie Mame often said...and so some of it is. High performance audio has become something else again from what it was when I first came into the fold.  So long as I continue to not be taken in by the physical size and beauty, I see no reason for an audio amplifier to sell for some of the asking prices whether one can or can't afford it. But again that really is naive too. If an individual can simply write a check for whatever whenever, it really doesn't matter what those that can't think, does it? 

As far as reviewers are concerned, pure entertainment nothing more or less with a FEW exceptions. That is the ones that can describe what they hear and can articulate comparative differences to like components and ACTUALLY know the difference between an alto and tenor sax, (love your Joni Mitchell example Wolf!). The Absolute Sound and Stereophile IMHO are worth every penny they charge.  I'm not so much interested in the reviews as I was in the olden/golden days of the 80's and 90's when I hung onto every word of JGH, Dick Olsher, AHC and Sam Tellig (after all, he was reviewing stuff I could actually afford in those days) there is still plenty of value in both  in the music selections and   articles about industry people and new products, the gems that most of us can actually afford. I always jump to Bob Hartley's reviews with  zeal, anticipation  and great amusement to see if he can somehow outdo his previous hyperbole of those "grand" products he reviews. I love it!

Wolf I'm hearing you man!

Globally-speaking, the world is filled w/ both billionaires & millionaires.
I would like to think that those guys are buying this gear!

Yes, DO still reviews for TAS

Is Dick Olsher still reviewing in TAS? He was the only contributor I liked, after he left Stereophile. Dick is very much from the Gordon Holt school.

I read Stereophile and TAS, but I take most of it with a grain of salt. The magazines are so cheap these days- about a buck an issue- it's a guilty pleasure 

I figure that if I wind up getting one album a year through their recommendations that I like, it was worth the cost 

.
The Absolute Sound reviewed the Infinity Primus 363 speaker in February this year.  That speaker is selling for $115.00 each on Amazon as of this writing.  I bought four of them at $99.00 each earlier this year on Amazon.  Free delivery too.  

So, periodically, they do have stuff in there that Ordinary Joe can buy.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/infinity-primus-p363-loudspeaker/?page=2
.

I enjoy read TAS and Stereophile, it keeps me in the loop as to what's hot and what's not.  Whether I buy that product or even consider it is up to me. 

Regarding certain amps at a high price range, there are always buyers.  

I wish there were more reviews on my Boulder 2060 for instance.  It's always good to hear/read other's opinions on what you own or might want to own. 

Oregon, Dealers who sell at full retail wouldn’t survive in this climate. The better Dealers look after their regular customers, but if some Manufacturer was offering discounts that high, that would be an immediate red flag for me. I can think of some shonky ones, but will not be drawn into a flame war by naming or shaming them here. The bottom line: you generally get what you pay for if you have a keen eye (and ear) for quality.

Melbguy1 ...

Be sure you talk to taters before you pop on that 53 thousand dollar amp. Taters knows where you can get 30% off. *lol*

I must chime in here, since I just decided to let my subscription to TAS lapse. Been subscribing to Stereophile since sometime in the '90s, and TAS for a good while (over 5 years). TAS writers are full of themselves. Especially certain ones - I won't mention his name - but he's their designated megabuck equipment reviewer. He (especially) and all the others all try to use big words and non-English phrases to talk down to the readers. Acta est fabula, plaudite! Spare me! And those constantly recycled "best of" lists. No thanks. 

I am so sick & tired of reading comments about readers complaining about high priced gear reviews...

I do not buy the Absolute Sound to read about eleven hundred dollar integrated amps. I buy it to read about the DAEMON.  The uber stuff I cant see at my dealers.  

You may not be able to afford a daemon today, but in a few years, used, you never know.  By reading about the expensive (lets call it high end gear) I learn alot, helps motivate me with this audio hobby I love and it may even make me go out there and make that extra sale and get that Daemon.  Would you buy wine spectator to read about two buck chuck?  

Yep, the SS-025 is a great amp & packs a wallop. Hans Ole Vitus said he actually prefers the sound of that amp to the SS-102 with the big Magico M6's. 

The point I was making is, Vitus don't really need to advertise that amp. It will sell from word of mouth amongst their loyal customers.

SS-025
Stereo Balanced Power AmplifierRated Peak Output Power : 300W in 8 ohm / 600W in 4 Ohm Intelligent Class A bias1 x Unbalanced inputs (RCA)1 x Balanced inputs (XLR)1 x Set Balanced speaker outRemote Control not includedDimension (WxHxD) : 435 x 130 x 430 mmWeight : 42 Kg

We are a Vitus dealer in Manhattan.

Rhapsody Music and Cinema
Rhapsody.Audio

Taters, the next amps I’m buying will be the Vitus SS-025 power amp & Vitus SL-102 preamp. You won’t even find the SS-025 on Vitus’s website. They just casually put it up on their FB page & took it to Munich. I think there is a video floating around on AVShowrooms.

So what 53k amp are you buying that doesn't advertise in the audio mags?

I’ve been burnt with 2nd hand gear before, so I prefer to buy new gear these days. I don’t have kids or a mortgage, so I can afford to. With that said my next amps will retail around $53kUS, so the answer is yes there are buyers for esoteric gear. Though i’ve found with few exceptions the companies with the most integrity don’t take out full page ads in glossy audio mags. Their products do the talking for them. Besides that, the best advertising is word of mouth.